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Mon May 16, 2005 6:03 pm  |
(Posted this on another thread, but am afraid it got lost in the shuffle.)
Sunscreen gurus (and you know who you are  ) How does the Eucerin Extra Protective Moisture Lotion SPF 30 rate on the PPD scale?
For the record, I'm really liking the Jan Marini lotion, but I like to have a back up if:
1) My skin decides on a whim it doesn't like it anymore
2) I don't have a half hour before I go out to apply the Jan Marini
Have seen folks who like the Eucerin, but don't know what the decision is re: effectiveness against UVA's.
Feel free to refer me to a web site, if there is one.
Thanks so much! (Just tell me where to send my check! )
Ingredients are:
Active Ingredients: Octocrylene, Octinoxate, Zinc Oxide, Titanium Dioxide, Ensulizole
Inactive Ingredients: Water, Glycerin, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Dimethicone, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cyclohexasiloxane, Ceteareth 20, Glyceryl Stearate SE, Sodium Lactate, Lactic Acid, Hydrogenated Cocoglycerides, VP/Hexadecene Copolymer, PEG-40 Castor Oil, Sodium Cetearyl Sulfate, Xanthan Gum, Phenoxyethanol, EDTA, Alumina, Simethicone, Sodium Hydroxide, DMDM Hydantoin |
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Mon May 16, 2005 6:31 pm |
| Now, I am not completely sure on this (still learning) but I don't think this is photostable, therefore, not very helpful for UVA. The reason that I think this is because Bad Bird posted a list of "good" ingredients a while ago, and they are not in this product. |
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~normal but prone to dryness~slightly sensitive~usually clear~totm breakouts~mid 20s~ |
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Mon May 16, 2005 7:02 pm |
Someone posted the % of active ingredients on MUA a while back and they were very low. So this product has a very low PPD  |
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~~ super-sensitive, dry, dermatitis prone, rosacea/northern calif ~~ |
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Mon May 16, 2005 7:21 pm |
Yup, I see that m.april said that she had freckle darkening with the Eucerin.
**That sound you hear is the bottle being tossed in the trash.** 
Well, I'd sure like an option. Someone else mentioned Coppertone Faces Oil-Free SPF 30. Yay? Nay?
So, why are oil-free sunscreens a myth?
Thanks gals. I see I'm not the only one posting on this topic today. 'Tis the season! |
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Mon May 16, 2005 7:37 pm |
Hi Tea!
I don't think I'm a sunscreen guru but how can I miss this post when my name is on the subject? 
The Eucerin is at best partially photostable. Octocrylene has coverage up to 360nm but I don't think it is a high PPD.
Generally, a high PPD is sort of relative to a high SPF. So an SPF30 can't have very high PPD anyway.  |
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Mon May 16, 2005 7:49 pm |
Bad Bird - I just asked for your expertise on another thread: Shiseido SPF 55 and Jan Marini. Now I know why my freckles haven't gone away in spite of all of the years of sunscreen use. Besides La Roche Posay, what sunscreen that's readily available in the US would you recommend (that isn't oily)?
I use AHA products at times -- I've probably not been protecting my skin as much as I should
Thanks, April |
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Mon May 16, 2005 8:22 pm |
Yes, Bad Bird, I believe you do have the sunscreen goods! Thanks for the fast response!
I'm one of those unfortunate Americans who can't get a variety of good "blocks", conveniently down the block, until the FDA approves some of those highly touted chemicals mentioned in other threads, is that it? BTW, anyone have news on that front? 
My only experience with a high SPF required oil to remove it--the Shiseido 50+. Really didn't care for that aspect of the product.
The Jan Marini is very nice, but tres cher.
I stay out of the sun, but want to know I'm protected if a sneaky ray should attack unbeknownst to me. 
I'm looking for options so will keep reading these threads!  |
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Mon May 16, 2005 8:30 pm |
| Do the gurus actually approve the Jan Marini stuff? Maybe I missed something. I've been worried about that. Anyone? |
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Mon May 16, 2005 8:42 pm |
Wow ... m.april, AHA is bad news if you're not adequately protecting yourself from the sun!
Unfortunately, the best sunscreen actives are not approved for use in the US yet, so you'll have to turn to online buying for those European sunscreens. Canadian Ombrelles (Mexoryl) are a very good, economic choice.
Non-oily sunscreens - this is always a difficult one. So far, the photostable, high PPD sunscreens have been quite oily, in part due to most actives being oil-soluble. The lightest one I have tried (and I'm still using it) is LRP's SPF60 PPD28 Fluide Extreme. You can try the Bioderma (Tinosorb) range, available from delivereddeals.com.
Tea - I heard that the FDA will come out with new rules in less than a week. The rumour is that at least Mexoryl SX will be approved.
Yes, most high SPF (and oily) sunscreens really need double cleansing or a strong cleanser to remove. Personally, I have been using Body Shop's Camomile Eye Makeup Remover to wipe off sunscreen, then cleanse with my usual cleanser. I sometimes alternate with Shu Uemura's Cleansing Oil. |
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Mon May 16, 2005 9:19 pm |
Bad Bird, thanks for all of your advice!!! This is such an important topic, and I wonder if I may prevail upon you again: do you have an opinion of the LRP lait vs. fluide extreme? I'm trying to determine if one is less oily than the other, assuming they're of equal quality.
April |
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Mon May 16, 2005 9:27 pm |
Hey, no problem at all. I'm happy to share.
Which lait do you mean? There is a SPF45 Lait and a SPF60 Lait (from the XL range, which contains both Mexoryls and is a more powerful formulation).
I've not tried the SPF60 one but I have tried the SPF45. In terms of oiliness, I think there's not much difference between Lait and Fluide Extreme. I prefer the Fluide because it is very liquid, like water, and if you have very dry skin, it should sink in quite well. The Lait has a nice "light" feel although it is a thick emulsion.
What skintype do you have? What skincare products do you use underneath sunscreen? |
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Mon May 16, 2005 9:37 pm |
I have been using MD Formulations Total Protector 30 for the past 6mths. Does anyone know if it's a good sunscreen? I have fair skin with freckles. I have no idea about this stuff and thought all sunscreens were good! What is PPD?
Active ingredients: Octyl Methoxycinnamate, Zinc Oxide (CI 77947), Allantoin.
Purified Water, Clyceryl Stearate, C12-15 Aklyl Benzoate, Glycerin, Steareth-2, Steareth-100, Tricontanyl PVP, PEG-100 Stearate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Xanthun Gum, Cetyl Hydroxyethylcellulose, Dimethicone, Disodium EDTA, Diazolidinyl Urea (and) Iodopropynl Butylcarbamate, Methylparaben, Propylparaben. |
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Mon May 16, 2005 9:46 pm |
Hi again gurus
I see on another thread that no-one answers the Jan Marini question because the ingredients aren't listed on the site. Here they are from the bottle
Octinoxate 7.5%
Octisalate 5.0%
Benzophenone 3-6%
Avobenzone 1%
Yay or Nay? - thanks, M |
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Mon May 16, 2005 9:49 pm |
Can't believe they list allantoin as an active in a sunscreen! It is an anti-imflammatory and it is so misleading! 
I would say using the MD Formulations is better than using nothing, but I'd pass.
PPD - Persistant Pigment Darkening. Used to show the amount of UVA protection, like SPF is used to show amount of UVB protection. |
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Mon May 16, 2005 9:56 pm |
Hi Molly,
All the actives are not photostable, except for Octisalate, of which I'm not sure. Octisalate has been known to cause photocontact dermatitis.
Avobenzone not only degrades rapidly under UV radiation, it has been shown to degrade other sunscreen actives.
A big NAY for me. |
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Mon May 16, 2005 9:59 pm |
| Another thing. Avobenzone is usually stablised by Octocylene, but stabilisation is ineffective if Octinoxate is present. |
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Mon May 16, 2005 10:16 pm |
Cheers Bad Bird. As you're around, sorry to ask another but this one's so lovely on your skin that it's bound to be ineffectual. This one is free with a travel kit from Janson Beckett and actually I did email them and ask them something but their reply didn't really answer my question (maybe I put it badly).
So this one has
Octyl Methoxy Cinnimate
Octyl Salicylate,
Menthyl Anthranilate
Oxybenzone
Any joy with this one? thanks again - M |
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Mon May 16, 2005 10:26 pm |
Bad Bird - Thanks so much for your quick and informative responses. While searching to buy LRP sunscreens, I simply noticed that there were 2 SPF60 formulae - the fluide extreme that you mention you use, as well as one called "lait". From the names, I thought that the milk would perhaps be less oily than the one called fluide extreme, but from what you've just said, the opposite seems true!!!
I've recently started using JB Skin Prep and ADCE plus a bit of Okusil. These are the only products I use during the day (besides sunscreen). At night, I occasionally use MD Forte Skin Rejuvenation Lotion (contains AHA and retinol). I used to use this more often and I like how it keeps blackheads in check as well as getting rid of any dry, crusty skin. However, I've backed off nightly use (as I've been trying other products that ended up disappointing me), even though I've enjoyed its refining effect.
Besides the LRP sunscreen, I'm getting ready to order IS Clinical Super Serum (contains 15% Vit.C) and Firming Complex (contains AHA). I hope I won't miss the retinol by using the IS products. Anyway, I really need to make sure I use an EFFECTIVE sunscreen, considering I use AHA and will add Vit.C to my regimen, both of which (as you well know) make the skin more photo-sensitive. Your advice is golden!!! |
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Mon May 16, 2005 10:39 pm |
Menthyl Anthranilate is not a common active and it is not a broad-spectrum UVA filter. The rest are in the unstable category.
Not to kill your joy but this is another no joy. |
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Mon May 16, 2005 10:45 pm |
April - Vit C does not photosensitise your skin. It photo-protects; that's why it is recommended for use underneath a sunscreen during the day.
If you don't have oily skin, either the Lait or the Fluide Extreme is fine. Oiliness is a small price to pay for good protection although if the sunscreen is breaking you out, then alternatives must be found.
On a different note, AHA and retinol are not usually combined because AHA needs to be in low pH (acidic) to be effective whilst retinol needs to be higher (more basic). The MD product is probably compromising in the middle. |
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Mon May 16, 2005 10:50 pm |
Oh Bad Bird, I forgot to mention my skin type: I'm 53, combination (but dryer in the winter), and very fair with some freckles. I don't have wrinkles, just some fine lines here and there. Even though I've evidently been using a so-so sunscreen all these years, my skin looks very good for my age. But I stopped sunbathing at age 30, and often wear wide-brimmed hats when I'm in the summer sun.
You're SO right about prevention and sunscreen -- it's the most important thing we can use to make skin look youthful. And it's heartening that the deep tan look has become less fashionable among just about everyone (except the Spring Break crowd). |
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Mon May 16, 2005 10:54 pm |
| So happy to hear what you say about Vit.C, Bad Bird! You're so well-informed -- do you work in some scientific field? |
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Mon May 16, 2005 10:57 pm |
April - I can imagine how young your skin looks. The hat definitely helps - no sunscreen can beat that! Your freckles might even go after a period of high PPD use!
Combination skin - the LRP oiliniess shouldn't be too much of a problem, unless the summer is very humid. |
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Mon May 16, 2005 11:14 pm |
Well, summers ARE rather humid where I live -- Cincinnati is a river town. But protection is ultimately most important to me, so I'll try LRP. Sorry to hear these other matte-like products aren't as effective, though
Thanks again for all of your advice!!! |
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Mon May 16, 2005 11:19 pm |
Yeah ... me too. I've found lost of matte sunscreens which are crap, which is a shame. 
If you want to matte the shine, try a little cornstarch.
And you're most welcome. |
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