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Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:49 pm  |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
Interesting note - when I clicked on that link, I saw related study articles on the right hand side of the page and there's one study indicating that a certain progesterone cream was shown to increase skin elasticity.
We seem to have ways to increase collagen, but elasticity (or elastin?) is one that we around here have been hoping for.
BF |
This is the main thing I am researching personally and there is conflicting information.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100003190.html
It is important to be aware that women using HRT have a slightly increased risk of stroke and of blood clots forming in the veins (eg deep vein thrombosis/pulmonary embolism) compared with women who don't use HRT. The risk is higher if you have existing risk factors (eg personal or family history, smoking, obesity, certain blood disorders - see cautions below) and needs to be weighed against the personal benefits to you of using HRT. There is more detailed information about the risks and benefits associated with HRT in the factsheet about the menopause linked above. Discuss these with your doctor before starting treatment.
The risk of blood clots forming in the veins (thromboembolism) while using HRT may be temporarily increased if you experience major trauma, have surgery, or are immobile for prolonged periods of time (this includes travelling for over five hours). For this reason, your doctor may recommend that you stop using HRT for a period of time (usually four to six weeks) prior to any planned surgery, particularly abdominal surgery or orthopaedic surgery on the lower limbs, or if you are to be immobile for long periods. The risk of blood clots during long journeys may be reduced by appropriate exercise during the journey and possibly by wearing elastic hosiery. Discuss this with your doctor. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:28 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| I do believe Toby is using estriol cream for systemic effects? After all, I doubt she is applying it to make changes to her fatty areas of the skin (meaning her thighs). I could be wrong though! |
This is what's confusing me. Obviously, people are using the Estriol cream to deal with hormonal fluctuations due to menopause - so there must be systemic effects. However, the first study I posted said there were no effects on vaginal swabs. The second study said to be mindful of the amount of Estriol used.
Some information says that for the Estriol to be effective in needs to be used in conjunction with Progesterone - that's confusing me too.
Anyway, I'm starting off with a 0.1% face cream because I do take HRT. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:06 pm |
| I am not on BHRT or HRT but I am finding the same confusion Keliu! One says no worries about any of the usual side effects and another has warnings about them? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:33 am |
Right now, I probably have at least 5-10 books on endocrinology and menopause at home that I am wading through. At the same time, 5 or 6 on skincare and aging.
I also read info I find online.
**Much of it is contradictory.**
Personally, for me, I find it works to read them all and note the areas where the data converges - I then compare that to my personal circumstances and make a decision.
I think everyone has to determine his/her own comfort level with what they choose to apply on their skin and why - taking all related health factors into consideration. Not too different from the choices we make with prescriptions, food, etc.
BF |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:43 am |
Darkmoon,
i haven't done research on HRT for the last 9 years or so...so i'm most certainly not up to date...but at that time... i was researching everything i could find on the subject...and consulting with the cutting edge proponents/opponents of 'bio-identical' hormones...(i'm not quite happy w/that way of speaking about highly, intricately lab produced hormones even though they 'originated' from soy/yam...but it depends upon one's philosophical orientation as to constitutes life/bio-identity i suppose).
anyway i'm wondering what kind of HRT was used in the research regarding blood clots...as at the time i was researching HRT... studies were being done using horse urine derived estrogen... and i'm not sure where the progesterone came from...but it was not 'bio-identical' progesterone...
becuase at the time bio-identical hormones had not been researched significantly....perhaps this has changed at this point in time..but just wanted to make sure you were aware of the different kinds of HRT that may have used in different research projects. |
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71 years, primarily raw living food 35 years(vegan 45 years) herbal tea decoctions, homeopathy, TCM, facial massage, facial exercises, vacu-lifting, gua aha, shiatsu/acupressure, intention, home microcurrrent |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:54 am |
| I agree with your assessment Jasmine, they are all lab created/altered from nature as far as "BHRT" is concerned. I would not personally consider conventional HRT due to risks. However even on estirol "apparently the safest" I am running into conflicting information! Definitely need to do more research! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:33 pm |
I ordered some estriol (Estro500) online and it went bad in the mail.  I've tried to order it several times and am never able to. |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:04 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Definitely need to do more research! |
Are you wanting to use the Estriol cream or BHRT, Darkmoon? |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:08 pm |
| gretchen wrote: |
| I ordered some estriol (Estro500) online and it went bad in the mail. I've tried to order it several times and am never able to. |
From http://progest50.com/estro500faq.htm :
What are the ingredients in Estro500?
There are two active ingredients: estriol and estradiol. Each pump contains approximately 1.0 mg of combined bio-identical human estrogens. 80% (or 0.8 mg) is estriol and 20% (0.2 mg) is estradiol. Estradiol is several times more potent than estriol. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:17 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Definitely need to do more research! |
Are you wanting to use the Estriol cream or BHRT, Darkmoon? |
The Estriol,
Only as a facial cream, but as you are aware in my case (having very high iron levels) I want to know the consequences of using it in any form blood clots being the big concern. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:44 pm |
| ok so from that article I read , you use the estriol cream every other day not every day? |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:45 pm |
| ok so from that article I read , you use the estriol cream every other day not every day? |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:53 pm |
| lucyluc wrote: |
| ok so from that article I read , you use the estriol cream every other day not every day? |
Which article and is it geared to vaginal dryness, menopause symptoms, or as a face cream? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:46 pm |
| I read that estriol is not FDA approved...how come you can still buy it then? |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:01 pm |
| so now I read that natural estrogen must be taken with progesterone....what???cant I just buy the cream and be done with it? |
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:22 am |
DM,
Does your medical office have an advice hotline?
They have your records there, maybe you can call them and they can advise you?
BF |
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:42 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
DM,
Does your medical office have an advice hotline?
They have your records there, maybe you can call them and they can advise you?
BF |
Yes I do BF, actually my OB/GYN is excellent, and I plan on consulting with him, as soon as he returns from a well deserved vacation!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:15 am |
Life Flo Health, Estriol-Care, 2 oz (57 g)
Each full press of the pump provides approximately 0.75 mg of natural Estriol USP. Estriol-Care is formulated to contain 18 mg of estriol per ounce.
So does this product contain 3% Estriol? - I think it works out to be about that, but my math isn't very reliable. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:30 am |
| lucyluc wrote: |
| I read that estriol is not FDA approved...how come you can still buy it then? |
Here is the official FDA position on Estriol (as of April 8, 2008):
Myth: "Bio-identical" hormone products that contain estriol, a weak form of estrogen, are safer than FDA-approved estrogen products.
Fact: FDA has not approved any drug containing estriol. The safety and effectiveness of estriol are unknown. "No data have been submitted to FDA that demonstrate that estriol is safe and effective," according to Daniel Shames, M.D., a senior official in the FDA office that oversees reproductive products.
Myth: FDA wants all compounded hormone therapies off the market.
Fact: "We are not trying to pull all compounded hormone therapies off the market," says Silverman. "We believe that, like all traditionally compounded drugs, a woman should be able to get a compounded hormone therapy drug when her physician decides that it will best serve her specific medical needs. But we also want women to be informed and careful about choosing products that have not been proven safe and effective. And pharmacies cannot promote compounded drugs with false or misleading claims."
In addition, FDA has not approved any drug containing the hormone estriol. Pharmacies should not compound drugs containing estriol unless the prescriber has a valid investigational new drug (IND) application. INDs provide benefits that include allowing physicians to treat individual patients with drugs that are not FDA-approved, while also providing additional safeguards for patients.
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm049311.htm |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:54 pm |
As I do with sunscreens, I find it helpful to look at data on ingredients as studied outside of the US - the UK, Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. - these countries appear to be more focused on the health and safety of their citizens. Don't shoot me, just my opinion. It appears to me those countries do a better job of putting the citizens first.
BF |
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Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:38 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
As I do with sunscreens, I find it helpful to look at data on ingredients as studied outside of the US - the UK, Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. - these countries appear to be more focused on the health and safety of their citizens. Don't shoot me, just my opinion. It appears to me those countries do a better job of putting the citizens first.
BF |
I agree with most of what you have said Barefootgirl. But even when you search for information on Estriol outside of the US sources there isn't a lot to be found really. And there is even less to be found for topical application of Estriol on the face to reduce the signs of aging ... that's really what this thread is about. For example, I searched on Maturitas (Estriol within All Periodicals) and didn't find much that was relevant.
One thing I would like to caution people about: look at the date of the studies. The level of knowledge back in the 1980's and 1990's about estrogens in general is not equal to what is now known (or suspected). It is also important to look at sample size and duration of the study. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:49 am |
| I also wonder if the amount of the cream used makes any difference? What I use on my face is about the same amt as the Retin A, pea size. I don't use HRT so I'm really not sure of the amount used, but I thought it would be much more. Also I didn't post, that my dr. recommends this for his patients who are over menopause. |
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Too numerous to mention! |
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Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:29 pm |
Generally speaking, both concentration of the active ingredient in the product and amount of product used will matter. While searching around on the non-American websites, I noticed that many women talk about using Ovestin as their estriol cream. In this particular formulation, it comes with a dosage applicator and when filled to the indicated mark will result in 0.5g Ovestin Cream containing 0.5 mg estriol. Of course, this in manufactured for intravaginal use (for the treatment of postmenopausal symptoms) and isn't officially made for the face.
You can read about Ovestin here:
http://www.medicines.org.uk/EMC/medicine/1387/SPC/Ovestin+Cream/#furtherInfo
Section 5.2 Pharmacokinetic properties states that:
After administration of Ovestin Cream, estriol is also absorbed from the vagina into the general circulation, shown by a sharp rise in plasma estriol, followed by a gradual decline.
After 3 weeks of administration of a single daily dose, a similar absorption pattern to that seen for a single application was observed.
Daily treatment with 0.5 mg of estriol (in 0.5 g of cream) leads to a sharp rise in unconjugated plasma estriol levels to 110 pg/ml at one hour from previously undetectable levels (<12 pg/ml). This was followed by a gradual decline during the next 5 hours to around 60 pg/ml.
On day 21 of treatment, mean baseline estriol levels of about 26 pg/ml rose to a mean peak value of 95 pg/ml at 1 hour. A decline similar to that seen on day 1 was observed during the next 5 hours.
Vaginal administration permits the absorption of the active (unconjugated, or free) form of estriol into the blood for transport to the target tissues, prior to its inactivation via conjugation by enterohepatic enzymes.
Ovestin appears to be a "prescription only" cream in the UK. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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