My 1 year dermaroll experience for acne scars (15 sessions)
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Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:19 pm

You're right bethany has been very respectful and helpful to everyone including me. I thank bethany for her help.

Also thank you foxe. Your advice is helpful. So you've had success with single needling? I might have to research single needling scars and try it. I'm going to take a couple months break and let my skin completely heal before I try single needling scars.

How do you go about single needling your scars?

free skin care · Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:37 pm

foxe wrote:

I would like to add that I highly respect bethany in that she researches her information to the deepest level and has been generous enough to share her knowledge with fellow EDSers. Her knowledge on the dermarolling protocol is nothing to sneeze at. And while she totes the vitamin A and vitamin C protocol with rolling (and that method should be taken very seriously), I suggest you look into CPs as well since they have been know to help remodel skin on their own and work very well on scar tissue.

If you have not had success after a year, something you are doing is not right. Many have offered suggestions. Take the knowledge being offered and use it. If you research properly and follow the advice, I'm sure you will see better results.

Thanks Foxe. And I have definitely seen CP's recommended by Dr. S for post dermarolling at the day 5 point and ongoing. I personally don't think they are a substitute for A and C, but they clearly do have wound healing benefits. I used them when I rolled in the past, and am considering adding them back in post-roll myself.

free skin care · Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:57 pm

DermaBoy wrote:

You're right bethany has been very respectful and helpful to everyone including me. I thank bethany for her help.

Also thank you foxe. Your advice is helpful. So you've had success with single needling? I might have to research single needling scars and try it. I'm going to take a couple months break and let my skin completely heal before I try single needling scars.

How do you go about single needling your scars?

I think the best way to tackle acne scars are to use a single needle and needle every bit of the scar you can. If the scar is an ice pick one, then needle the inside of the walls (up and down and all around inside) as well as the bottom of the scar and the surrounding area outside the scar.

Also, pretreat the scar using the protocol bethany has prescribed by using a vitamin A product and a vitamin C product at least 3 weeks prior to needling. As I've mentioned, I always use CPs, so I use the CPs instead of vitamin C. I feel I get just as good results if not better, so that is my choice. But, I would recommend switching up to CPs after needling for the scar remodeling process instead of the vitamin C. I think they work better at remodeling the skin.

I use CPs daily as well as Retin A FYI. I really think you need to break up the scar tissue with the needles good while also using these topicals to help rebuild the skin. You also should wait at least 4-6 weeks between needling to let the skin do its remodeling thing. It will take many sessions of needling along with daily applications of vitamin A/CPs or Vit C to help the skin to rebuild.

It would also be good to take supplements of oral vitamin C and MSM. Take 1000 mg of each daily. These are known to be helpful to the skin.

Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:45 pm

I'm taking some time off needling period to let my skin completely heal. Maybe after some time my scars will improve and I will definitely keep you guys updated on any improvement.

I do not have any experience with single needling or stamping but it would make sense that single needling scars is the best way to treat scars.

=O

free skin care · Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:27 pm

I was surfing the Internet and came across this picture of acne scars with dermarolling. This is one of the better results pictures I have seen. I don't know this Doctor or anything about him but just thought you might want to see the picture.
He does sell Environ products so those might have been used before the dermaroll but there isn't any information that tells you that. The lighting is different in the before and after picture but I think you can still see a difference.

http://www.leonardmillermd.com/gallery/percutaneous-collagen-induction/case-6#gallery

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:57 am

I started dermarolling in 2010 (i think), using the recommended protocol that I learned here. That is, every 6 weeks. After 6 sessions, I gave my skin a rest and only dermarolled again after 6 months. From then on I only do it every 6 months, sometimes even longer coz I tend to forget. I definitely have seen some improvement on my scars. They have become shallower and less obvious. Sorry, I do not have any pictures of before and after coz I was not planning of documenting it. Anyways, I did try dermabrasion before but I stopped it once I started rolling.

I use the 1.5mm by the way. I also have a 0.5mm but I barely use it. I am happy with my cleanser-toner-moisturizer regimen everyday now with my new set of products because they have stopped any new breakouts.I do not want to trigger an acne attack by changing my regimen. I also exfoliate once in a while and I am planning to have a chemical peel this year.

Also, I do not really roll fast like how I see it in some videos. I do not use any numbing creams so it does hurt a bit to roll. What I do is roll lightly and then I push the roller on acne scars real hard in different angles. It is like needling I guess only I use a roller.

free skin care · Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:38 pm

I've had full success with single needling lip and forehead lines. I started out that way because it seemed logical that I wanted to raise those deeper lines, not thicken the whole area. If you think about it: rolling an entire cheek that responds well to needles would build collagen in the whole cheek, possibly even more surrounding the acne scars, because the roller needles can't really get into the deep scars! Result: same unwanted contrast between scar and surrounding skin.

I hope you have better success with single needling. Also check out the owndoc site regarding vacuum lifting (not sure if that's the correct term) the scar once released by needling.

Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:57 am

This is old but these responses to this gent are false!

Do any of you guys have medical research degress or anything similar as far as dermatology?

Dermal rolling (stamp preferred)should be used for acne scaring at a frequency of every two weeks. Why? Acne scaring is usually a massive loss of collagen.

Fraxel laser is compared but only because fractional pinpoints of damage are being done. The frequency of this treatment are every six weeks,but the frequency is such because thermal damage and greater swelling from the thermal damage.
It has nothing to do with collegen producttion. If anything, think about an open wound. Its constantly trying to repair itself till its closed. Because its "open" longer, the body tries to fix this rapidly. Scar tissue, collagen. Think mgf in muscles that once damaged try to repair the muscle.

A random comparison of a common trend.
Branding... People often irritate the burn frequently so it does not rapidly heal over. They do this to cause more scar tissue to form so a repeated attempt is not required. They want a hypertrophic scar so they keep wound open (pulling off scabs early)

The bodies response is to keep trying to heal.An over production of scar tissue is built.

Acne scaring: certain small stamps are perfect for this. You "pierce" the area(hole) often to keep the area at a constant healing mode. No,this doesn't mean stamp too often. The reason why professional procedures aren't used frequently is because the practitioner does not want to risk an over production of collagen resulting in a raised scar. Two week frequency is perfect to notice changes without risking too much production of collagen.

Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:42 pm

DermaBoy you still around? I've been needling for two years and do it much more often than 15 times a year. I have had improvement in my skin, regarding old scars and also general texture. My opinion is you are totally correct, 15 times a year is not too frequent. In my opinion it's not enough. Dr. Fernandes needles the back of his hands every day and they look great. Personally I needle once a week. (though lately I've been doing it more and my skin seems to be tolerating that...maybe because I worked up to it) I use 1.5mm needles. I do not use anything on my face in the way of creams serums or make-up. Therefore, I get almost no swelling after needling and my face feels normal again in about 24 hours. I am not suggesting you needle again, that's up to you, but I was reading through this thread and saw a bunch of people piling on you and thought I would take up for your argument. As you said, the skin is very resiliant -- especially if you eat right and you don't put a bunch of creams and garbage on your face. I don't even use vitamins. I think it's important to keep the skin clean and pores clear at all times. I've never worn make up or used skin cream and at 61 my skin looks more like 45. I should mention besides needling, I also use infrared light.

Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:16 am

PaigeD64 wrote:

Sorry but you are mistaken. It is too often. You probably should have taken a couple months off after your first 8 rolls, since you did those in a three month time span. That was a good FIVE rolls too many right there. Your skin needed time to heal. Ad then when starting up, do no more often than every six weeks.

I would not recommend rolling if you are not going to take researching the procedure seriously and don't post about your poor results if you are not really looking for honest input.

More is not always better and this is one of those cases!

Members that posted earlier in this thread are extremely rude and wrong. 15 times is not a lot for a year. I have received subcision every 3 weeks for almost a year, 13x subcision total. Unless these members think they know more than dermatologist, they are wrong.

free skin care · Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:23 am

leaveoutthebs wrote:

Members that posted earlier in this thread are extremely rude and wrong. 15 times is not a lot for a year. I have received subcision every 3 weeks for almost a year, 13x subcision total. Unless these members think they know more than dermatologist, they are wrong.

Those members were getting their knowledge directly from the inventors and researchers who developed the protocols; people who are, in fact, likely to know more than an individual dermatologist who might simply be following the limited and often flawed instructions from a manufacturer.

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:58 pm

Hi,I am about to start derma rolling for red acne marks and some scars,I wanted to know were I can buy a good serum with both the retinal and vitamin C in the right ammounts,if someone could recommend a good one that ould be great.

free skin care · Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:33 pm

This is an interesting read and now I'm going to start using mine again. Did some you-tube videos to learn how to do it properly. I never actually knew that it is like a manual Fraxel laser, cool!

free skin care · Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:16 pm

Owndoc describes all rolling and needling in detail. For deep scars that you want to raise, I think completely rolling the surrounding skin could be counterproductive. Your young skin may react well, building all the surrounding tissue as much or even more than the deep scar. Final result: visually no improvement.

Individual needling in the deep area plus using the vacuuming and other techniques described in Owndoc make much more sense to me.

free skin care · Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:57 am

You might have been using a long needle on your roller. I got great results with a 0.5 and a superior quality roller. Some rollers on Ebay have huge thick needles which damage the skin more. You need to buy a good roller with extra fine needles from a good vendor. I have bought my 0.5 roller from a company in Florida and use it with my super peptide serum and vitamin C serum and get excellent results on my crow's feet and cheeks area. I roll gently (no blood).

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