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Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:10 am  |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| I was trying to improve hyperpigmentation, as well. 302 did not help with that at all. In fact, I freckled and tanned through the sunscreen. That was the end of 302 for me! I believe in a lot of Dr. H's theories and still think it is a good line for certain people. Not every line is for everyone and it is all trial and error! |
Hi Rileygirl,
The subject of hyperpigmentation is a really difficult issue, because there are so many causes of hyperpigmentation and degrees of it. You can certainly get age spots from just plain aging. But from all of Dr H's observations, the prevalent use of acids has been one of the main causes of increased hyperpigmentation being observed now. The skin is more stressed when constantly exfoliated by acids and and the melanin mechanism goes into overdrive in people who use acids, (and this includes Retin A and ascorbic C use) on a regular basis. Toss in HQ and you can have major hyperpigmentation rebound occuring after you stop HQ. There are also hormonal causes of hyperpigmention like melasma and laser induced hyperpigmentation from treatment done incorrectly. These can be extremely hard to treat with just topicals, and 302 may not be enough. So there are all types of causes and degrees of pigmentation. If its sitting on the surface and not deeply entrenched in the skin, you have a better chance of removing it quickly. If you have a resistant, deeply seated hyperpigmentation, it's going to take at least 9 months, along with regular ultrasound, LED sessions to get the pigment to budge. Also, everybody's capability to respond differs, depending on their health, age, lifestyle (smokers are not going to respond as quickly), and ability to keep to the regimen. So, I'm not saying 302 will help remove all your hyperpigmention, but maybe a longer course would yield better results.
The best course of action for people trying to prevent hyperpigmention is to not use acids on a regular or frequent basis, maintain your skin barrier by not thinning it or overly exfoliating it, and use a moderate amount of SPF when needed.
There are also nutritional ways of increasing your skin's ability to fight off UV damage naturally, without sunscreen. Lycopene in tomatoes, SGS in broccoli, and berries are a few.
We are now just seeing studies documenting negative consequences of overuse of chemical sunscreens and moisturizers. This mirrors what Dr. H has said all along. You should stop using lotion chemical SS and stop using conventional moisturizers if you plan on using 302, to ensure you get the best results. |
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Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:44 pm |
| This discussion is very interesting. I believe that a lot of people get dramatic results with Obagi Nu-derm regime in terms of reducing or eliminating hyperpigmentation. But what bothers me about the Nu-derm regime is that you have to continue on a maintenance regime after that which involves long-term use of hydroquinone and retin-A. There are health concerns about using hydroquinone continuously for long periods of time. I wonder if using the 302 skincare products for maintenance can keep away the pigmentation after using Obagi Nu-derm. Without resorting to hydroquinone. |
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Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:48 pm |
I ordered my 302 products from Nanci at NCN in the hope that they would help control seborrheic dermatitis. Unbelievably, I actually saw a dramatic reduction in flakiness the morning after the first use. All that day, I kept going back into the bathroom (to my 15X magnifying mirror) to see if I'd been imagining such quick results. Nope -- still smooth!
In the almost two weeks since, while my skin is still relatively unflakey, I have noticed an increase in whiteheads and a general laxity in skin texture. I already have large pores that fill up daily like it's their job, so any perceived increase in pore size is a concern. However, I do notice that they contain less "goop" (sorry) than before, so it sounds like oil production is slowing down a bit in the problem areas.
If I can just be patient, pay attention to the rules of use and keep myself from adding acid products from other lines, maybe I'll actually have normal skin.  |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:13 am |
| I didn't know that Nanci sells 302 products. They are not on her NCN website. Does she have a separate site for it? |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:12 am |
| Thanks, Boski for the info. I do have a question for you and hope it is ok to put that question here. I have recently "heard" that Dr. H thinks that growth factors are irritants? Or better question, what are Dr. H's thoughts on growth factors? |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:00 am |
| nakeidknits wrote: |
On the downside: The Recovery Plus and SS SPF 15 break me out, not horribly, but enough that I use them sparingly. (Also, I've yet to find a MMU with SPF that doesn't break me out, even UGloGirl.)
The Eye Serum is nothing to write home about, but I like the firming effect when I go out. Next time, I will try the Calmskin eye product.
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I think they need to look at redoing the Recovery Plus, as it seems to make alot of people break out or it feels heavy on the face. I personally never use it because I'm not dry, so I don't know what it feels like on. The SPF 15 needs to be tinted, and then I think that might work better for more people. I'm not a big user of the liquid SPF, I just use the Recovery Minerals SPF30. The 302 Eye serum is not a stellar product either. And I think Dr. H would agree, it was something put in the line to placate people who wanted an eye cream for a fast fix. Women expect a separate eye cream. It's mostly cosmetic I think and only gives temporary results. There is no Avogen in the eye lift. The Calmskin Eye Lift seems like it would be a more effective product for long-term improvement from looking at its ingredients. Remember you can use all the 302 actives on your eye area too. I have never even tried the 302 Eye Serum, because I didn't feel I needed it. I just use the regular 302 products on my eyes without problem.
So, these are suggestions I will forward to Dr H. I think the negative feedback will be really helpful in creating an even better line. |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:02 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Thanks, Boski for the info. I do have a question for you and hope it is ok to put that question here. I have recently "heard" that Dr. H thinks that growth factors are irritants? Or better question, what are Dr. H's thoughts on growth factors? |
I will ask him about this but I will post his answer in the other thread, as I don't want this thread to get OT  |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:47 am |
Well, this is some information I could have used before ordering last week. It's my own fault for not researching more.
Haven't received the products yet. At 59, I may be one of the few who IS aged and is looking for anti-aging.
Well, maybe I'll be the first old lady to say WOW.  |
_________________
59, medium-fair skin, blonde, lots of sun damage and some rosacea. Extremely sun sensitive. Originally Alexis52 joined 10/03 |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:33 am |
| Lexyg wrote: |
Well, this is some information I could have used before ordering last week. It's my own fault for not researching more.
Haven't received the products yet. At 59, I may be one of the few who IS aged and is looking for anti-aging.
Well, maybe I'll be the first old lady to say WOW. |
The WOW comes after a time - don't expect an overnite fix. But I've only been using a full line of actives for a couple of months and my skin this morning is unrecognizable from what it was a yr ago, in the midst of winter. |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:36 am |
| Lexyg wrote: |
Well, this is some information I could have used before ordering last week. It's my own fault for not researching more.
Haven't received the products yet. At 59, I may be one of the few who IS aged and is looking for anti-aging.
Well, maybe I'll be the first old lady to say WOW. |
Hey, I'm an old lady of almost 54 and I think I look pretty darn good  . It is a good anti-aging line, but it takes time to see really dramatic results and gadgets help the process along. I'm starting year 5, and it only gets better every year for me. |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:37 am |
| boski wrote: |
| nakeidknits wrote: |
On the downside: The Recovery Plus and SS SPF 15 break me out, not horribly, but enough that I use them sparingly. (Also, I've yet to find a MMU with SPF that doesn't break me out, even UGloGirl.)
The Eye Serum is nothing to write home about, but I like the firming effect when I go out. Next time, I will try the Calmskin eye product.
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I think they need to look at redoing the Recovery Plus, as it seems to make alot of people break out or it feels heavy on the face. I personally never use it because I'm not dry, so I don't know what it feels like on. The SPF 15 needs to be tinted, and then I think that might work better for more people. I'm not a big user of the liquid SPF, I just use the Recovery Minerals SPF30. The 302 Eye serum is not a stellar product either. And I think Dr. H would agree, it was something put in the line to placate people who wanted an eye cream for a fast fix. Women expect a separate eye cream. It's mostly cosmetic I think and only gives temporary results. There is no Avogen in the eye lift. The Calmskin Eye Lift seems like it would be a more effective product for long-term improvement from looking at its ingredients. Remember you can use all the 302 actives on your eye area too. I have never even tried the 302 Eye Serum, because I didn't feel I needed it. I just use the regular 302 products on my eyes without problem.
So, these are suggestions I will forward to Dr H. I think the negative feedback will be really helpful in creating an even better line. |
RE your message to Dr. H re the REcovery + formulation, pls convey that the silicones and the man-made polymers are causing some people problems.
Might as well take the opportunity to add my 2 pennies worth.
Thanks |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:50 am |
I neglected to add in my earlier post about Nanci at NCN skincare that she regularly offers a 10% discount on all 302 products altho' they don't appear on her website.
Just a heads up for those of us who love or would like to try the products. Who doesn't like a bargain? |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:57 am |
| arya2 wrote: |
I neglected to add in my earlier post about Nanci at NCN skincare that she regularly offers a 10% discount on all 302 products altho' they don't appear on her website.
Just a heads up for those of us who love or would like to try the products. Who doesn't like a bargain? |
Where are the 302 products listed on Nanci's site? I don't see them there.
ETA: Thanks for checking with Dr. H on this for me, Boski! |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:51 pm |
| boski wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Thanks, Boski for the info. I do have a question for you and hope it is ok to put that question here. I have recently "heard" that Dr. H thinks that growth factors are irritants? Or better question, what are Dr. H's thoughts on growth factors? |
I will ask him about this but I will post his answer in the other thread, as I don't want this thread to get OT |
Riley, Dr H's reply is posted on the 302 thread. |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:28 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| arya2 wrote: |
I neglected to add in my earlier post about Nanci at NCN skincare that she regularly offers a 10% discount on all 302 products altho' they don't appear on her website.
Just a heads up for those of us who love or would like to try the products. Who doesn't like a bargain? |
Where are the 302 products listed on Nanci's site? I don't see them there.
ETA: Thanks for checking with Dr. H on this for me, Boski! |
I stated in my earlier posts that she doesn't include them on her site. |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:42 pm |
| Sorry, arya2, I skipped over that part completely when I saw Nanci was selling the products! |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:50 pm |
Hi,
Have been using 302 products for I think over 3 years now. Was talking to Boski & she told me about the poll.
I first found out about the products from Shana on the Spectacular Skin forum. She had been having great results & seemed quite knowledgeable.
I was having a terrible time with my skin. Severe eczema (from toxicity I have since discovered) & irritation.(from acid use) I actually contacted Dr Huber to ask for his help. He was in the process of reformulating the 302 drops & I was a willing guinea pig! He was very helpful needless to say!
I stayed off the acids for a couple of wks & then went on the drops. What an immediate difference ! The eczema started to subside almost immediately! What a relief as I had had this for YEARS!
Initially I just used the drops & the added the A Boost & C Boost in as I could tolerate them.
Now I use Retin A (once/wk - never could use before) & A Boost (once/wk)and of course the drops. I had been using the C-Boost, but wanted a higher potency C (due to hyperpigmentation)so I started making my own.
I also LOVE the bar! This has helped my skin immeasurably! And yes I have little hyperpigmentation now except for some I recently acquired in the Bahamas!
Overall my skin is in fabulous shape (I'm 49 & very few wrinkles or hyperpigmention - no acne - & no scarring)and my esthetician says I have the softest skin she has ever felt. (she also says I look in my 30's - but well you know  ) I did recently see an old family friend that I have not seen in 15 years who said I look much younger than my age said I looked @ 35 so who knows. I can't say that I can give 302 all the credit (I do other external things like facial exercises & cupping), but I do think it has a lot to do with it!
I hope this is helpful to someone considering trying 302! |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:28 pm |
| cabrita wrote: |
I first found out about the products from Shana on the Spectacular Skin forum. She had been having great results & seemed quite knowledgeable.
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Thanks Jennifer for posting. I wanted somebody else who had been on 302 for a long time to give their experiences, because getting glorious results when first starting something new is one thing, maintaining and sustaining is another. Shyana or Shayna was one of the other "guinea pigs" on acne.org beside me who learned about it there and was using it for her acne scars. We exchanged quite a bit of info between us and she was still using the 302 drops for scar reduction the last time we corresponded a couple years back. Sadly, I don't hear from her anymore. I guess she is happy with her skin and surfing away in CA. She had a horrible transition in the beginning for at least a couple months with dryness, breakouts, but it seemed to turn around the 3rd month. After that, she got great results. You can find all her old posts on acne.org. BTW, she was a nurse esthetician, and she was VERY knowledgeable..on a par with Dr H. She was about my age as I recall. It seemed like the older ladies had better results (we had more patience maybe). |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:56 pm |
| I think also that older skin cannot tolerate acid products so well and respond better to a gentler regime. Although results are not initially spectacular but the skin probably improves at a more gradual rate. |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:53 pm |
| boski wrote: |
| nakeidknits wrote: |
On the downside: The Recovery Plus and SS SPF 15 break me out, not horribly, but enough that I use them sparingly. (Also, I've yet to find a MMU with SPF that doesn't break me out, even UGloGirl.)
The Eye Serum is nothing to write home about, but I like the firming effect when I go out. Next time, I will try the Calmskin eye product.
|
I think they need to look at redoing the Recovery Plus, as it seems to make alot of people break out or it feels heavy on the face. I personally never use it because I'm not dry, so I don't know what it feels like on. The SPF 15 needs to be tinted, and then I think that might work better for more people. I'm not a big user of the liquid SPF, I just use the Recovery Minerals SPF30. The 302 Eye serum is not a stellar product either. And I think Dr. H would agree, it was something put in the line to placate people who wanted an eye cream for a fast fix. Women expect a separate eye cream. It's mostly cosmetic I think and only gives temporary results. There is no Avogen in the eye lift. The Calmskin Eye Lift seems like it would be a more effective product for long-term improvement from looking at its ingredients. Remember you can use all the 302 actives on your eye area too. I have never even tried the 302 Eye Serum, because I didn't feel I needed it. I just use the regular 302 products on my eyes without problem.
So, these are suggestions I will forward to Dr H. I think the negative feedback will be really helpful in creating an even better line. |
Just with reference to the recovery plus - I found this a little too heavy for my skin too, so I went back to my original routine of using the calming mist to moisturise on my day off per week from 302. I also use it every morning in conjunction with the acne mist. The calming mist is a must for me - it moisturises without adding any oil and feels beautiful on my skin.
I thought that may be worth adding for anyone else who has found the recovery plus too heavy |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:03 pm |
| arya2 wrote: |
I neglected to add in my earlier post about Nanci at NCN skincare that she regularly offers a 10% discount on all 302 products altho' they don't appear on her website.
Just a heads up for those of us who love or would like to try the products. Who doesn't like a bargain? |
For those that have an EDS discount of greater than 10%, Nemo!AtTheDisco (Dan) honors our forum discount if you order from him. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:46 pm |
| arya2 wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| arya2 wrote: |
I neglected to add in my earlier post about Nanci at NCN skincare that she regularly offers a 10% discount on all 302 products altho' they don't appear on her website.
Just a heads up for those of us who love or would like to try the products. Who doesn't like a bargain? |
Where are the 302 products listed on Nanci's site? I don't see them there.
ETA: Thanks for checking with Dr. H on this for me, Boski! |
I stated in my earlier posts that she doesn't include them on her site. |
So do I just email Nanci and ask her about the products? Are they the exact same? |
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Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:58 pm |
Hi, could you give me the recipe you used for you C serum? Thanks!
| cabrita wrote: |
Now I use Retin A (once/wk - never could use before) & A Boost (once/wk)and of course the drops. I had been using the C-Boost, but wanted a higher potency C (due to hyperpigmentation)so I started making my own.
I also LOVE the bar! This has helped my skin immeasurably! And yes I have little hyperpigmentation now except for some I recently acquired in the Bahamas!
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_________________
24 yrs old. favorite sunscreen right now: Burnout [now 35] |
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:02 am |
I spoke via email to someone at 21st Century Skincare and she said, in essence, that 302 is popular for acne but she sees a lot of clients who are looking for anti-aging and have had great results using 302.
Just thought I'd throw that in there because the thread here seems to be skewed toward acne folks. Nothing wrong with that but there ARE folks who are getting fab results with anti-aging. They just don't post here. |
_________________
59, medium-fair skin, blonde, lots of sun damage and some rosacea. Extremely sun sensitive. Originally Alexis52 joined 10/03 |
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:09 am |
| Lexyg wrote: |
I spoke via email to someone at 21st Century Skincare and she said, in essence, that 302 is popular for acne but she sees a lot of clients who are looking for anti-aging and have had great results using 302.
Just thought I'd throw that in there because the thread here seems to be skewed toward acne folks. Nothing wrong with that but there ARE folks who are getting fab results with anti-aging. They just don't post here. |
I would definitely love to hear from them and their results using 302 for anti-aging! |
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