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Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:08 pm  |
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302 FAQ for Newbies
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=33409
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• ::REVIEW:: 302 Skincare Part 1: Intro to a Non-Acid Regimen
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855
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::REVIEW:: 302 Skincare Part 2: More Questions and Feedback
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35321
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Hi everybody,
This is my first review of a product. I've received so much valuable information from the EDS site, so I figured it's time I reciprocate. First of all, let me say that I have used 302 Skincare from almost its inception. I think they came out in 2003 or 2004. I started the line in January 2005, over 3 years ago. I have stuck with them the entire 3+ years. Not to say I don't use other things too, but it's my staple skin care that I would never be without. I can definitely say that this line has produced the most visible and consistent results for me as far as promoting skin health and appearance goes. I have Before/Afters below to show you my results.
(okay, go ahead and scroll down for a peek  )
You can consider 302 cutting edge (and controversial) because it goes against everything you've been taught about skincare the last 2 decades or so. You can't just add it to your current regimen and be successful, so I decided I really needed to write a thorough review. If you wonder why you've never heard of 302, it's because they a small company, relatively new, and do not advertise. They sell directly to professionals only, and the line is not well known outside of CA.
So if your current skin care is just not cutting it any anymore for you, or you want try something totally different, read on...
ABOUT ME:
First of all, about me: I'm turning 53 in June. I'm Asian, have oily, acne prone skin. I suffered from severe cystic acne in my teens and have spent practically my entire adult life trying to fix the resulting scars. I've spent thousands of dollars on procedures, prescriptions, and skin care to try to fix my skin to look halfway decent. I had rolling, icepick, boxcar scars all over my cheeks and chin. For the longest time, I would dread looking at my face in the morning. In the last 30+ years, I've done the gamut of skin care, including medical chemical peels, fillers, TCA Cross, Skin Biology CPs, AHA, BHA, Mama lotion, lactic acid, enzymes, Karin Herzog, Epicuren, Epidermx, lasers, and even snail cream. Though I had results from some of these things, I still had scarring and hyperpigmentation. It was in around 2004 that I was noticing how bad my skin was starting to look. I was following the conventional skincare mantra that exfoliation was the only way to rid myself of the hyperpigmentation and scars and build collagen. I was religiously doing weekly glycolic peels, applying multiple topicals each morning and night, but they no longer seem to make my skin clear. It just started looking blotchy, red, oily, and irritated. I was so self-conscious, I could not be seen without makeup at all, even at home.
HOW I DISCOVERED 302:
It was the beginning of 2005 when I happened upon a thread about 302 on another forum. It intrigued me because it was totally different from what I was doing. They claimed that acids, excessive peels, and the resulting exfoliation were bad for the skin and actually caused accelerated thinning and aging in the skin. The guy who was making this statement was the founder/formulator of 302, Dr. Richard Huber. He was a biochemist who had been working on a research project for Eli Lilly. He knew of a village of people in Guatemala with very resilient, healthy skin even though they lived in a hot, sunny climate and, obviously, didn't use sunscreens. Through his research, he figured out what was responsible for this incredibly smooth, wrinkle free skin. It was the avocatin that was created when they ate their main staple….avocados. Avocatin is not the same as avocado oil. It's much more potent. This was in the 1980s. It took him the next 15 or so years to perfect and patent the avocatin, which is the main active ingredient in most of their products (you can read the patents on the website). As I read and reread the website, it all made perfect sense to me. Given the fact that my current skin care routine was not working for me anymore, I took a leap of faith and bought the 302 drops and Face/Body bar. Almost from the start, I could see a change in my skin. At about 10 days, I noticed a plumpness and healthy-looking appearance that I had not experienced in awhile. My skin felt calm again, my skin tone evened out. Even my not-so-observant husband noticed and asked me what I was doing to my skin because it looked better. I was sitting in the bright light of an open window at the time. That kinda convinced me something was going on and it wasn't just my imagination. After a few months, I even noticed my scarring was starting to diminish. I was overjoyed and, the rest, as they say, is history. I was hooked for life. The line has never been irritating or stopped working for me. Since that time, the product line and website has greatly expanded to address various skin issues, including aging, acne, and rosacea or sensitive skin. Each has its own products and protocols. All of the details are on the website. They sell to professionals only, so it's hard to find some of the products at times, but they are available on the web from estheticians or skincare salons. If you live in California, you can probably find a salon that carries 302 and/or does their facials.
I have issues with oil, acne scars, hyperpigmentation, and breakouts, so I have been using the 302 cleanser, oily/combo cleanser, Face/body bar (still my favorite cleanser), 302 drops, 302 acne drops, C Boost, A Boost, and 302 serum plus. All the product ingredients are listed on the 302 website. They use nonacid forms of Vitamin A and C. Their products are simple, natural formulations with a lot of botanicals. They are gentle, yet powerful at the same time.
WHAT IS 302'S PHILOSOPHY:
The philosophy of 302 is based on some very unconventional and controversial assertions. A lot of people (including most skincare companies) will adamantly disagree with these assertions. My intent here is to provide other possible theories, so you can do your own research and come to your own conclusions. For me, it works. My skin has responded very positively since I've been off acids and on their products and regimen. The following points are paraphrased from information I've read on the 302 and Osmosis websites and other articles:
1. The current practice of excessive exfoliation (whether by acids or manual means) is potentially damaging to the skin. The plumpness and glow you see immediately after exfoliation is temporary microinflammation, and actually compromises the skin's integrity in the long run. When you constantly exfoliate the epidermis, you compromise the skin's natural protective barrier. You are, in essence, inflicting minor injury to the epidermis in order to kick start the repair response in the dermis and, hopefully, build collagen. But the bad side of this process is that dermis senses this damage and also starts increasing melanocyte activity to protect you from the sun. This actually makes you more susceptible to sun damage and hyperpigmentation. Additionally, the constant state of microinflammation from acids and exfoliation can lead to accelerated aging with thin, crepey, see through skin. People who are chronic acid users for many years may eventually acquire a mannequin type appearance with a tight, shiny skin which is impermeable. According to 302 and Osmosis, a better skin model would be to prompt the skin's metabolic functions to work the way they did when you were younger. This involves providing good circulation (exercise, massage, ultrasound, cupping for example), nutrients (from food and supplements), and introducing actives which do not harm or irritate the epidermis, but instead can go down into the dermis to promote healthy collagen, elastin, and fibroblast production. BTW, the name "302" is taken from the molecular size of avocatin; it is small enough to penetrate to the dermis (especially with ultrasound or dermarolling).
2. When you overapply topicals (using 1 or more actives day and night on a continous basis), you can overload the receptors in your skin (causing skin fatigue). The skin's receptors will shut down and revolt after awhile. If you ever notice that you get great results from a certain topical in the beginning, but then it just stops working after a few weeks or months, this is probably due to skin fatique. Also, you might notice that if you stop a topical after prolonged use, sometimes an * spam alert * response ensues, resulting in redness, irritation, return of pigment problems, dullness, or dryness. Excessive use of topicals and especially acids can eventually lead up to rosacea. This is why they suggest mixing up the routine and limiting actives to 1 a day. They really emphasize the "less is more" philosophy. If you see a immediate visible response on the skin from any active, they suggest that you should REDUCE its use instead of increasing it to reduce the chance of skin fatigue.
3. External barriers such as moisturizers or sunscreens which sit on top of the skin are bad for the skin. Especially if you are oily, you should never apply moisturizer or liquid sunscreen on a daily basis. Liquid makeup is also bad. It clogs the pores and creates whiteheads, blackheads, and inflammation. For normal daylight exposure, MMU with SPF is adequate. Only apply a physical sunscreen if you are in direct sunlight for a prolonged length of time. It should be washed off as soon as you go inside. If your skin barrier is intact, you shouldn't need to apply any stronger than a SPF 5-15 MMU or sunscreen for normal daylight exposure. Constant application of very high SPFs, especially chemical sunscreen, is not necessary or beneficial to your skin.
MY ROUTINE:
A.M:
1. Rotate between 3 of the 302 cleansers. These are non-foaming or low foaming, so it takes getting used to. But I leave it on my face while I brush my teeth and drape a hot washcloth over my face before rinsing it off.
2. Put MMU with SPF on. I seldom use liquid sunscreen now except when going outside for more than an hour.
P.M:
1. Cleanse as above, but rotate with a different cleanser.
2. Rotate with 1 of my 302 topicals (302 drops, acne drops, C Boost, A Boost, or serum plus. I have used Osmosis products on an occasional basis too). But it's always just 1 topical, and no more. Some nights, I just use hazelnut oil with EO, sometimes nothing at all. The skin benefits from a break once in awhile.
3. After my topical is applied, I occasionally use LED (DPL or Quasar), dermaroller, ultrasound, or my UP5 microcurrent device. All these gadgets boost the results with 302.
That’s it. I've been doing this for 3+ years and have saved a bundle on skin care as I don't use anything for daytime and only 1 topical at night.
SUMMARY:
In order to reap the most benefits, you have to keep in mind the following rules when using 302. If you can't do all of the following, then you really should not use this line. It would be a waste of your time and money. You have to be committed to the philosophy. If you really want to do it right, consult with the 302 folks or one of their trained estheticians. They are SUPER friendly and knowledgeable. But at the very minimum, you have to follow these rules:
1. You need to stop all acids at least a week or 2 before. If you don't, you will be causing more damage than good when you start using the 302 products. Acids and 302 are incompatible and counterproductive when used together. You may experience more irritation.
2. Transition slowly in the beginning. Get your skin back to baseline by simply washing with a mild cleanser for a week. No other topicals, no moisturizers, no liquid sunscreen. 302 has some transitional products to help people who are long time acid users get through this stage. During transition, your skin may look really bad. This is a result of the withdrawal from your current products, not because of 302.
3. Use only 302 and follow the protocol precisely as detailed on their website. Don't try to experiment. It will be tempting for you to use your existing products, but don't do it, so you can fairly judge if 302 is working for you or not. Don't overapply the products! It's not going to speed your results. After a few months, if you have a good result with 302, you may be able to alternate with other compatible skin care lines that are nonacid. You can even stop using 302 for a few weeks and then go back. The results you have gained do not disappear. Your skin jumps to another level of improvement when you restart.
4. Be patient. It may take up to 3 months to see final results. Many see results faster, but if your skin is very stressed or traumatized from long-term acid use, it may take much longer.
5. Look at the general state of your health. Exercise, nutrition, stress reduction all contribute to a healthy skin, like any organ in your body. Look at supplements such as MSM, wheatgrass, vitamin C, fish oil, etc. to provide the nutrients your skin needs.
Congrats, if you made it this far!! Now for my results. Here are my Before/After pictures. The Befores were taken in 2004. The Afters were taken in March 2008. I'm not wearing any foundation, just lipstick. In fact, I prefer not wearing foundation these days . I'm really pleased, considering where I started and my age. So thanks for reading my long-winded review. If you want more info, go to:www.302skincare.com
Before 2004
After 2008
Before 2004
After 2008
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:39 am |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| mamawalnut wrote: |
| I placed my order at the Face Placewww.302skincareproducts.com on Tuesday afternoon and the package was in my mailbox Thursday morning. They did not carry the full 302 line but they had the products I wanted (cleansers, 302 drops, and A Boost). |
I devoured just about every page of the link that boski provided, and love the whole idea and logic behind this line. I am also in agreement that having your skin in optimum condition, much reduces the need for topicals.
I thought that it was going to be ridiculously expensive, and I'm pleasantly surprised at how reasonable it is at the link you provided above.
So here's the only thing that's stopping me from ordering....I don't think I can part with my vitamin C serum 
Boski, have you totally left everything else behind and just use the 302 products? Please tell me it taint so, and you snuck one or two of your favs in... 
ETA: Thanks for the link to purchase mamawalnut! |
I used some of the 302 products when they first came out and was told that once the transition period has passed (for some people this could be a few months), you could include both A and C products even from other lines as long as they were acid-free and provided you follow some basic guidelines:
1) go slowly, erring on the side of caution
2) apply only one high performance product per day and only once a day
3) never apply the same high performance product on a consecutive day (high performance = 302 Protein Drops, C product, A product)
So your protocol after several months might look like this:
302 Protein Drops - 3 to 4 x per week (example: M, W, F)
302 C Boost - 2 to 3 x per week (example: T, Th)
302 A Boost - 1 or 2 x per week (example: Sat) |
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Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:34 pm |
I'll be following this thread; I definitely think overuse of acids can come back to haunt you. I have some TCA in the house, but I use it only for spot acne treatment. And then I have to spot treat the remaining scar. Hmmmm.
I have a friend who is an actress who regularly does TCA peels. Like, every month or so. She has okay skin, anyway, but was experiencing the "over 55 panic" actresses go through. (It begins with the "over 30 panic," and continues.)
Last fall she was sitting near a window and chatting in my home. I was fascinated to see that her cheeks were NOT flawless, as it looked in interior light. The sunlight showed her whole face as a web of scars. Smooth and tight because of scars, not healthy skin, at all. I didn't say anything (why would I?) but I was gasping with horror inside.
That experience more than any other information makes me look twice at strong acids. I use mild acids to counteract my waxy sebum. But aggressive molting your skin off regularly really cannot be a good thing. . . |
_________________
tenderlovingwork.com, astonishing handmade gifts |
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Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:31 am |
NO, actually, it isn't best known for treating acne...it is best known for treating acne scars, which are the depressions in skin like chicken pox scars. Those scars are due to damaged skin layers, as are wrinkles.
Wrinkles, ssgging, loss of volume are all due to damaged deep layers of skin (dermis). The 302 line rebuilds tissue (collage, elastin) from the foundation up (as opposed to treating skin issues from the top layer down, as is the case with most skin care lines). So, if anti-aging is your concern, 302 is extremely appropriate.
The difference is that 302 sees many topicals as irritants (peptides, acids, growth hormones) that cause the skin to *look* better by creating irritation which in turn causes an inflammatory response (plumping) which gives the illusion of improved skin (lesser wrinkles, tighter skin, plumper skin, etc).
The problem is that over time, this irritation/inflammatory response cycle damages the deep layers of the skin, causing it to be brittle and thinner. That is why your skin starts looking bad again after you stop using an effective topical.
The ingredients in 302, namely avocado-derived avocatin, rebuild the damaged deep tissues without irritation and the subsequent inflammatory response. Given that avocado itself has been shown to have collagen regenerative/induction properties, I think there is strong merit to the 302 skincare line. |
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:59 am |
| boski wrote: |
| catski wrote: |
I'm wondering about the face and body bar as a nice facial soap for my son who is starting to get spots and blackheads - he's coming up to age 14 and I suspect his skin situation isnt going to improve on it's own for a good few years.
Do you think it would be suitable, Boski? |
I think the face/body bar would be a good start if he isn't using BP or acids at the moment. If it isn't enough, then consult with the 302 people and see what they suggest. I'd hate to tell you buy other things and not have them work for him. So I'm going to have to defer to the experts. |
Thanks Boski, you're right, I'll contact them to check what they say. he isnt using anything right now other than seabuckthorn soap. |
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Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:09 pm |
| boski wrote: |
| h.kitty wrote: |
I wonder how 302 Avocatin differs from Croda's Avocadin ingredients? They sound similar and they are both avocado based. 
boski, since you obviously have a rapport with Dr. Huber... can have ask him how his Avocatin is different from the Croda Avocadin products. (He should be familiar with Croda since they are a cosmetic ingredient supplier.) Also, can you ask him why his company does not follow proper INCI for their ingredient lists?
Thanks!! |
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I got an email back from Dr. H:
Croda sells beta-sitosterol (avocadin) which they claim is from avocado, but in my 20 years of chromatographing avocado I have never seen more than a vanishing trace of beta-sitosterol, a mildly effective anti-inflammatory which is a large component of soybean oil unsaponifiables. Croda is well, Croda and I can’t speak to what they sell. Our Avocatin 302 is a very different animal, both structurally, chemically, and in biological effect from beta-sitosterol as evidenced by our patent work.
As for nomenclature, we were asked by many clients to provide descriptions of our ingredients and not simple CTFA or INCI or CAS names, etc, etc. The same compound can be described nearly fifteen different ways under current guidelines and we thought it would be helpful to shed some light on these as to what they were. We ended up with a mix of CTFA, INCI, CAS, SARA, etc,etc plus our own descriptors. Well it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Also, a number of these ingredients are our own, we make them and they are new.
Nevertheless, this experiment in clarity was anything but that – and we recently updated our ingredients names and went back to CTFA or INCI or CAS or... nomenclature, wherever applicable, to provide more comparative clarity and thereby avoid confusion and while these updates our now on our labels, it will be a few weeks before this shows on our website.
Incidentally, there is no “proper” format for names, only guidelines, the intent of the law is to be accurate and truthful and in many cases the chemical names are wholly misleading. Salicylic acid being one case in point. It is in fact a phenol and not a true acid and is part of the aromatics class of compounds and shares many of the biological interactivities of that class as opposed to the activity of, say, fruit acids used in peels. There are many such compounds that do not accurately reflect by virtue of their name and have been grandfathered in over the years.
Again, we still have a number of compounds that we alone produce and had to choose names that would best describe these and most accurately reflect their composition and have provided these names to various committees around the world for inclusion.
See ya, thanks. R |
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Sun May 04, 2008 5:19 pm |
Bethany...here are some of the results I am seeing with the eye serum and Recovery Plus.
Eye serum.....a definite firming of the eye area and really good hydration without any greasy or oily residue. I had some very fine dehydration lines around my eyes which are diminishing already....yes, I really can see a difference. The eye serum just melts into the eye area and leaves it wll hydrated and toned and smooth. Also I have had no irritation from the serum. I have very sensitive eyes and this serum just feels great. I love how it leaves my eyes looking so smooth and toned.
The Recovery Plus has also left my face well hydrated without that slick greasy feeling that you get from some face creams. I have very dry skin so I'm used to using rich creams to moisturize. The Recovery Plus does this but without being super rich and greasy. To me it feels like it sinks into the deeper layers of the skin rather than just sit on top of it to moisturize and hydrate. I also feel a firming of my whole face when I use the Recovery Plus. It feels like my face is being pulled up. It's very hard to describe. Again, some of the dehydration lines that I have on my face are beginning to diminish. They weren't deep lines so maybe that's why my skin is responding so fast - I don't really know. All I can say is that for the first time my entire face and eye area feels deeply hydrated from the top of my skin right down into the deeper layers without any greasy, oily, slick residue. Oh, and it feels nice and firm too.
Hope this helps. |
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Wed May 07, 2008 11:10 am |
| bkkgirl wrote: |
| Boski, you mentioned that spas in CA should have the 302 line. I live in Pasadena, CA, and go to West LA every other weekend. Are you in this area of CA as well? If so, which spa would you recommend? I have dry skin, and am not prone to acne, but my skin is kinda dehydrated, so I think this avocado-based product should be good for it, too. It can use more oil. I really want to give this line a try. Do they sell sample sizes? |
Lucky girl! No I live in Texas. There many salons in CA to get 302 products and facials from. But the one you should go to in that area is The Nile Institute. Nina Curtis is the facialist. She and 302 have been working together for quite awhile. She lectures at their training seminars. They do not do samples because it doesn't allow you the time to see results. It's not an overnight results type of skincare line. If you go have the facial, you have to report back with your experience. I'm so jealous  Here is a snippet about the Nile Institute from Allure:
http://www.allure.com/directory/los_angeles/facial/directory_LAfacial?currentPage=12 |
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Thu May 08, 2008 7:11 am |
| I just got the lightening drops and wanted to let anyone thinking about getting these that are prone to acne to maybe re-think. The information sheet that comes with the drops says it may cause breakouts on your face. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up, as this is one of their more expensive products! |
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Thu May 08, 2008 6:37 pm |
| BluesHeart wrote: |
He's adorable. Boski, do you have any idea of his age? Btw, I was having my brows done tonight and she is also a esthetician who does facials, I told her about 302 and she was excited to look it up to learn more. I told her to be prepared to scratch her hair a little.  I look forward to hearing her thoughts in a month when I go back. |
He is quite likeable when you get to know him. Well, he must be at least 50 I would think. More likely 60+. I've seen a picture of him. Quite tall and distinguished looking. I'll see if I can find the picture. BTW, he is very happily married. Rita, his wife, who is a classical pianist would probably get a little jealous of all this attention for her man . I exchanged a few emails with her back in the days on Acne.org. I think she is Russian and has this adorable way of "speaking"...She is very protective of him. |
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Fri May 09, 2008 9:07 am |
| ruk1 wrote: |
| This product sounds rather amazing. Is it good for aging and mature skin for ladies over 60? |
Definitely good for all age ranges and skin types, but you need to be sure you get the correct products and directions for usage. Call their 1-800 number (see my previous note) and they can set you up with an esthetician close to you for a free consult. |
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Mon May 19, 2008 3:04 pm |
I'd like to give an update after three weeks use of 302 Skincare eye serum. I've been using it every other day, alternating with SkinMedica eye serum.
The 302 Skincare eye serum is a fresh gel, but moisturizing enough for me. Prior to cleansing and applying eye serum, I've been dry brushing my under eye area with a baby toothbrush. This routine has resulted in some plumping and firming and a decrease in under eye bags. I am also happy to see what I believe is a slight improvement in strength and thickness of the thin under eye skin. My lines are still present. I'm hoping for further improvement in strengthening of the thin skin, but I'm happy so far.  |
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Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Thu May 29, 2008 8:53 pm |
Krista, here is the link if you want to read it.
http://www.microdermabrasionadvice.com/microdermabrasion-info.shtml
I do not want to continue off topic on this thread except to say...you are ROTTEN! Of course I headed right over to the cupping thread, and ALL my favorite, respected members are over there cupping away!  I may have to eventually get in on this, after I recover from the rest of the stuff I am torturing myself with lately! (as I sit here with my fire-engine red neck and chest from my dermaroll tonight) |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:13 am |
Hey everyone. Wanted to update my 302 progress. On 6/3 I stopped using topicals, started off with a Hot Towel cleansing in the AM, and rotating cleansers in the PM. I've been using the Calming Mist as needed, I'm a bit obsessed with that product. On 6/12 I used my 302 drops for the first time, and have been using them every other night since. I love the feel of them on my skin. Due to both humidity & my skin withdrawing from Acid use [says Dr. Huber] My face is a bit inflamed right now. I wanted to share the email Dr. Huber sent me, because it's very informative.
Hi Dan,
Gomer passed this on to me - I want you to take a very warm, wet cloth and
wipe your face. Wet face with Calming Mist, do not rub in. Immediately apply
the 302 Drops and massage in well - you do not need much. Now, add the
Cleanser or Bar (or alternate - I don't know whether you got the Bar, but it
works very well on what you describe). When you add the Cleanser, you will
add no water, just rub it in right on top of the Drops. It will absorb like
a lotion.
Spray with some Calming Mist and move the suspension around on your face.
Now add very warm water and rinse, rinse, rinse (no wash cloth) until all
traces of slipperiness are gone.
Spray Calming Mist.
Use Recovery Plus at night.
In the morning, apply Cleanser quickly to skin and rinse well. Mist.
You will not apply the Drops as a leave-on while the weather is humid.
In another words, it is all in the washing.
If you continue to breakout, you may dip your fingers in baking soda and mix
it in with the cleanser a few times per week. This will help a lot if things
feel oily, or acne is forming.
If you have a rash like acne, the baking soda may irritate. When you apply
the baking soda, just let it dissolve, don't use as a scrub.
This routine should leave your skin really clear, and with no leave-ons but
the Recovery Plus in the evenings when you feel you really need it.
Less is best. We can alter the routine when the weather gets cool.
I also had a reaction to the MAC Mineralize Loose Foundation, recently. I was clear in the morning, wore the MMU, and had serious breakouts by dinner time. He had this to say about MU:
Forget SPF’s – don’t worry about the sun and the formulas will cause breakouts. If you are going on an all day outdoors, use mineral powder, but avoid any powder with bismuth oxychloride – very irritating. Kaolin, iron oxide, zinc oxide, mica, titanium dioxide, serecite, even boron nitride all okay, about everything else, especially including antioxidants, vitamins, and wonderful natural things will create big problems. We will be offering a mineral powder soon for just this purpose, but it is a few months away. In the meantime, drill around on the Net, there’s some good stuff out there.
Just wanted to share the information with everyone. I recently ordered from Fyrinnae.com some MMU in shade Amber. I've used some of there products before years ago, they seem to get good reviews and have good ingredients.
I'm off to do a green-tea mask to calm down this acne. :/ |
_________________
[24/M/Fair,Blonde&Blue][Oily/Acne Prone/Sensitive][302 Skincare: 302 Cleanser, F&B Bar, Acne Mist, 302 Drops, Clarity][Gluten Free, Dairy Free, Low Glycemic diet + Regular Excercise + 302 = No More Acne] |
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:55 pm |
| canadagal wrote: |
| I am living in San Antonio,TX at the moment. |
There is a spa in Dallas which carries the 302 line and also provides the ultrasound 302 facials. It called Exhale spa.
http://www.exhalespa.com/
If you ever get the chance to go there, you can get a facial, consult, and products there. |
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Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:28 am |
Hey everyone! I have a tester bottle of Acne Mist coming to me, to test whilst the labels are being made. I'll keep you all posted, and make sure as soon as it's available you all know. I also just wanted to share an awesome conversation Dr. H & I were having about raised Acne scars. Hope everyone is doing Skin-sational!
The A Boost and the 302 Drops or Serum will focus on the epidermis, where the scars need to be addressed. A boost will also tend to reduce the breakouts. We provide A boost in a lipid base, obviously, and to avoid congestion you need to thoroughly wet your face and use only a drop or two (press down the pump s l o w l y to dispense less) and then start with your neck and move upward to the forehead. It is surprising how far these will spread. You should feel little to no residual oiliness.
Raised scars or hyperplasia can be addressed. The highly crosslinked fibrotic buildup needs to be softened and penetrated with new capillary growth. A boost is angiogenic (as are all retinoids), meaning it will build out new capillaries, but limit the application to not more than 3x per week. More than that may cause a negative histology and tend to increase cross-linking. 302 Serum will soften the tissue (as will the Drops – they are virtually the same in biological impact) through lysyl oxidase inhibition. This process when undertaken topically is dependent on your own metabolism to a certain extent, but can be helped along by denaturing the collagen crosslinks. This can be done by laser (always problematic and uncertain) or other means to get heat (115 deg F) to the tissue. The blood will tend to move heat away from an area but a very warm towel held on the skin once per day, or every other day (less if you get dry skin) can help denature the collagen.
The combination of say A Boost 3 x per week and say 302 Serum 3 or 4 x per week should be very effective when combined with the heat. How fast depends on your gene pool and with your tendency to breakout, to limit the inflammation. Your acne sounds as if it is inflammatory in origin and that is the worst kind ( of course) for generating a highly crosslinked cellular mat – thick wads of tissue that mounds up on the surface – so your primary goal will be to keep inflammation to an absolute minimum. Easy for me to say. |
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[24/M/Fair,Blonde&Blue][Oily/Acne Prone/Sensitive][302 Skincare: 302 Cleanser, F&B Bar, Acne Mist, 302 Drops, Clarity][Gluten Free, Dairy Free, Low Glycemic diet + Regular Excercise + 302 = No More Acne] |
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Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:33 pm |
| boski wrote: |
| suzannek wrote: |
| platinumrose, I have been using the 302 line for about 7 weeks and I really like the simplicity of this line. As far as results go, I am pleased to see some "plumping" of my skin as well as slight reduction in the fine wrinkles at the top of my cheeks. I do see some reduction in my hyperpigmentation which was not bad to begin with but I plan on incorporating Calmskin's Vit C when it becomes available. I alternate the 302 drops every other night with A-boost. I also use their cleanser for dry skin and the 302 bar. During the day I just use the recovery plus and the eye firming serum which I really love. This week I just added in Remergent DNA repair in the morning under the recovery plus because I have read such glowing reviews and Boski advised that it would be compatible to use with this line. All in all I am quite pleased with how my skin is looking. |
Suzanne,
Thanks for giving feedback and I'm very happy it's working out for you so far . I think you will like the vitamin C. The Lightening drops is one of my faves.
I heard from Dr H last week about Calmskin. It looks like end of August now. The website is 99% finished. The Calmskin labels are stuck somewhere in the Panama Canal he said, and they need to add the photos of the products before they can open the website.
Another thing he mentioned was that they are redoing the SPF 15 and SPF 30 to make it less tin-man looking and more wearable. This is months down the road though. If you guys have any suggestions for improving the line, let me know, and I will pass it along. He is very receptive to consumer input.
One other bit of news, if you go to the 302 website, it's all changed now. The professional content is password restricted now, and you'll find much less information than before. This just means you might need to consult with a professional to make sure you are getting the right products and regimens. Of course, you can always post questions here for help too. |
Boski is totally right! Definitely email 302 with any of your product suggestions. I've emailed him with a million things, and along with great feedback, I've contributed to a potential product that we may see in 302's future.
Also, I got confirmation about the new products that officially launch September 1st!
New 302 Products (available September 1, 2008)
RECOVERY MINERALS: TRANSLUCENT (SPF-30)
RECOVERY MINERALS: TAN (SPF-30)
A safe, natural, loose powder makeup AND a real treatment/coverage product that helps heal irritated, cuperose or acne prone skin. Use days for sun protection and nights for healing.
20 gram jar with sifter.
ACNE MIST
Contains high concentrations of the epigallocathechin (ECGC) from green tea, equivalent to a 4% benzoyl peroxide solution AND enzymes to help reduce the appearance of milia, sebum plugs and comedones, Use with the Face & Body Bar and the Recovery Minerals (SPF-30) for a simple, effective acne treatment regime.
AFTER WAXING
For home care and back bar, this acid-free lotion product will reduce or eliminate the tendency to ingrown hair and pustules/irritation that often occurs after waxing. Uses enzymes and saponins to reduce irritation and smooth skin.
OINTMENT RX
We expand further our dermatology treatment areas for home care and clinic. Use for radiation burns, chemotherapy patients or open wounds. Zinc oxide formula soothes and helps heals without mineral oil, petrolatum or silicones.
INTENSIVE BODY TREATMENT
A clinical and esthetic product for those with very dry skin who need a rich barrier emollient for hands and body, especially during medical care or inclement environment conditions.
I was hoping to attend a 302 Seminar/training this fall, but the dates just don't agree with my schedule right now. I'm definitely attending one in the spring. If I hear anything else, I'll post it.
I hope everyone (and their skin!) is doing well. |
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[24/M/Fair,Blonde&Blue][Oily/Acne Prone/Sensitive][302 Skincare: 302 Cleanser, F&B Bar, Acne Mist, 302 Drops, Clarity][Gluten Free, Dairy Free, Low Glycemic diet + Regular Excercise + 302 = No More Acne] |
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Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:04 am |
| Septembergirl wrote: |
| boski wrote: |
I think he mainly has a problem with the oxidation inherent with pure ascorbic C. If it oxidizes, then it's not going to perform very well and can potentially cause more damage. I think at the very least we can agree tetrahexyldcyl it is less irritating and more stable than ascorbic C. More independent studies need to be done to compare it to ascorbic C on an apples to apples comparison. There are ways to stabilize ascorbic C, and he didn't address that. Scientists, by nature, always think they are right. I like hearing both sides, so this is a good discussion. |
Yes, my impression is also that oxidation of l-ascorbic acid is his main concern. That's fair enough, but today there is no problem to find a stable ascorbic acid serum on the market. SkinMedica C complex and SkinCellularSkinRX are both very stable, and the DIY-people make small batches of ascorbic acid serums to ensure the freshness.
In his writings Dr Huber seems to concentrate solely on the irritating effects of ascorbic acid and other acids on the skin and ignore the established positive anti-aging effects. I do understand that people with very sensitive skin/skin problems prefer a non-irritating and less potent vitamin C serum, but from an anti-aging standpoint, I would choose an ascorbic acid serum.
The same problem applies to the utilization of retinyl palmitate in 302 A-boost. Retinyl palmitate is established as the least potent vitamin A derivative. It has to go through three metabolic steps to convert to retinoic acid in the skin.
Retinyl palmitate => retinol => retinaldehyd => retinoic acid
Again, for those who can tolerate retinoic acid or even retinol, I cannot see a good reason to use a much less potent retinyl palmitate product.
And for the "star ingredient" avocatin 302: I have not seen any studies showing the effectiveness of this ingredient on signs of aging or other skin issues, and there is hardly any information about this ingredient out there - unless what is provided by Dr Huber. On the 302Skincare website there are vaguely mentioned some unidentified studies. I believe he would have provided links to the studies if they were of public interest.
I acknowledge Dr Huber's alternative views, but as a consumer, I would like to see some evidence that his products work - in particular on signs of aging. |
Septembergirl,
Thanks for your input. The great thing about this forum is that we can disagree and be civil about it. It's a fact that not every line is going to work for everybody the same way, mainly because our genetics, health, skin types, and just preferences are all different. You have to evaluate a line accordingly and see if you agree with its concepts and general scientific soundness. Unless you're a biochemist yourself, you have to pretty much go with whatever the manufacturer claims and other's people's feedback. I personally like Dr Huber's approach. It's been working for me for over 3 years. I like that his prices are not sky high, and that he seems to want to educate people. I wasn't seeing the results after going the acid route for many years, but that's me. Many people have great success with acids, but it wasn't for me.
The avogen is a patented ingredient, so any independent studies are closely guarded for patent applications on future products, mainly in the pharmaceutical field. He says they exist and I believe him. There are patents on the website with some studies in it that you can view. The other studies are only available to doctors.
In the end, if you want to see if any product really works for you, you have to be willing to give it a fair chance. I've done that countless times in my life. This is the only line I've stuck with for so long because of the results. |
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Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:27 am |
I am not sure that one skincare line can have the resources, the knowledge, and the focus to be the best in every capacity...that is why I do a little mixing/matching from a couple lines to get the best of everything.
My personal view is that 302 has definitely improved my skin by reducing inflammation....I am not sure if it is because of the Avogen or the non-acid approach, but it has definitely worked for me.
I also think that the higher % of Vit C in the Lightening products is nice, and I like that it comes in both a serum and a lipid format.
I don't think that the A Boost is strong enough to really eliminate my fine lines, so I partner it with Retin A on face 2x a week. However, Retin A and my chest are enemies, so the A Boost is perfect in that instance.
As far as 302 being the best for acne or sensitive skin, I agree, but I also think it is most responsive for "less damaged" skin. That means that skin with lots of sun damage, smoking exposure, etc. will not see the results as quickly. Sometimes you really do need the more aggressive approaches to strip off those years of damaged layers, and 302 is just not going to do it. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:06 am |
Beth and Septembergirl,
I wish I could get the additional studies, but for whatever reason, he is limiting access right now. As 302 is a professional skincare line, their customers are doctors, estheticians, and other pros, and they do have the right to see those studies before buying, which he does allow.
The only public studies that shows avocatin's effectiveness are in the patents on the website.
302 is not the HG for everybody and I don't want to come across as promoting it as the best skincare line out there. It's just another skincare line with a different approach, that you can choose to try or not to try. Few people outside of EDS even know about it. I just wanted to offer it as another option. |
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Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:49 pm |
| boski wrote: |
| 302 is not the HG for everybody and I don't want to come across as promoting it as the best skincare line out there. It's just another skincare line with a different approach, that you can choose to try or not to try. Few people outside of EDS even know about it. I just wanted to offer it as another option. |
I think it is great that you posted about 302, Boski. You have helped a lot of people here (including me), and this line is working really great for many people who would never had known about it if you did not post. I do, however, think it is equally important for persons reading the thread to know there are people it did not work for. |
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Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:06 pm |
| chickenlittle wrote: |
Thank you boski!
I am on digestive & systemic enzymes, only good fats & no trans fats. The thing is, my diet has been really good for years & this blocked pores problem only came up 5 weeks ago, when I stopped acids. Usually I'm always one for treating from the inside out & addressing the diet, but in this case, I really don't think that's the thing causing this sudden upsurge in blocked pores. However I'm always up for suggestions!
My skin doesn't have pus-filled traditional whiteheads, it's these hard little plugs ... almost as hard as plastic, and deep yellow colour. I guess like blackheads, but harder and without the black colouring on top.
I like the idea of trying some other oils - argan & hazelnut sounds interesting! So I might look into that. Ultrasound I'd really like to try.
I wonder a lot about squeezing. If I totally leave my skin alone, will the clogged pores eventually expell themselves, or it is better to carefully extract "ripe" ones ...
Thanks for asking Dr H too, I hope he can help! |
I got a reply for you from Dr H. Try his suggestions, using the carrier oils, and try to look for a skin spatula in the meantime. Hopefully, it will become less as time goes by. I will let you know when the Acne Mist is out. I wouldn't squeeze the plugs in the meantime.
Here was Dr H's reply:
Hi Nancy,
The clogged pore stuff would be helped lots by acne mist. The change over will go a little smoother, but not perfectly by any means. These big plugs of stuff are really a problem –this can lead to hyperplasia and scars. All the fragments of emerging junk protein are impacting as the skin changes over and there is no guarantee that the process will not be a hair pulling ordeal that goes on and on – an esthetician is usually needed to do extractions and stay right on top of this and make it go easier. It is a bit daunting to do this alone. One thing, that seems to be constant in this however is a dietetic component – and this can be a chore to sort through but I will tell you I see more problems with people who do a lot of vitamins and minerals and other mega dosing or diets that are ‘health’ oriented in the extreme. It may not be the case here, but it is surprising how often it is and I wish I had more of a clue why.
As a home facial, the suffering one could use the Drops and baking soda and water and massage and massage this around to help break up this plugging. Then add the Bar to wash. I think I would make good friends with the Bar during this ordeal – it is really maddening to deal with and I have seen a lot of it first hand and we have seen about everything tried but Mother Nature in this realm seems to demand hard time instead of quick fix.
Incidentally, to give you an idea how deep this stuff is rooted (and why I am so against acids) is that the stuff she sees in the blackheads – that is the actual black stuff – is pigment – direct to you from the melanocytes that have gone into high overdrive during the acid binge (to protect, of course).
The spigot is turned on and it seems to take forever to turn it off. The lag time is at least sixty days and what a drama that is. The high turnover the acids create leads to continuing and poorly formed fragments of protein that guck up near the surface and well, she’s living it.
R |
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:12 pm |
Sal, my gyno is also a compounding pharmacist and makes his own pregesterone cream. I only recommend it because I know he is a stickler about quality, and this is the same stuff he prescribes his patients (though at a lower dosage). I do NOT recommend his books however...they just go on and on and on about how HE was ahead of the curve on bioidentical hormones (there is more about HIM in the book, than about the hormones!) 
http://www.hormonewell.com/
BTW, you will see that he is an advocate of saliva tests for hormone levels...I buy the identical test from the same lab he uses, and just take my results in when I go in for my exam.
http://www.salivatest.com/
http://www.hormonewell.com/ |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:31 am |
| monalisasmiler wrote: |
| Chickenlittle I am not sure what ultrasound it is, it is from Jennifer 2mhz, will know more soon and let you know. |
Mona, Jen was previously selling the Bellaire ultrasounds for $180...I have the 3mhz version.
You might want to ask her why 2mhz over 3mhz, since studies are showing that 3mhz heats even deeper than they had originally thought. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:34 am |
It is BellAire, based on the model number HS-3040. |
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