::REVIEW:: 302 Skincare Part 2: More Questions and Feedback
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free skin care · Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:21 pm

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302 FAQ for Newbies
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=33409
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::REVIEW:: 302 Skincare Part 1: Intro to a Non-Acid Regimen
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855
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• ::REVIEW:: 302 Skincare Part 2: More Questions and Feedback
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35321
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Welcome to Part 2 of the 302 Skincare blog!!

This thread is a continuation of the original thread "::REVIEW::302 Skincare Part 1: Intro to a Non-Acid Regimen". The main purpose of this new thread for current 302 users to exchange information, ask questions, and post feedback of results. As you know by now, the original thread has been locked per my request. I felt it was getting too big, too unwieldy, and hard to keep up with all the new posts. You can still read the thread, but no new posts will be allowed.

If you are new and not familiar with 302 skincare, you should read the original thread first, "302 FAQ for Newbies" listed at the top of this post.

We welcome new users to post on this thread, but please read the 302 FAQ and my first post on the Part 1 thread before posting here. It should answer 90% of the questions that most new users have. Also, if you have the time, you should try to read Dr. Huber's blue highlighted notes and as much as the first thread as possible. It contains heaps of valuable information which will help you understand how the skin functions and how 302 works with the skin to restore it to a healthier state without using harsh chemicals, acid peels, and exfoliants. Even though it will take a long time to read through Part 1, it will be a time-saver in the long-run, plus you will gain a lot of knowledge about skincare in general, gadgets, nutrition, and health issues as well. Much of the information comes from contributions from other users, not just me and Dr. Huber. We have a very informed group of people here. This knowledge will help you make sensible and safe skincare choices even if you decide not to use 302 in the end, so I really recommend new users read as much of Part 1 as possible. It doesn't have to done in one sitting, either. Read a little bit every day.

So let's continue the same supportive and welcoming environment here that we had on the first thread, and let the posting begin!

Nancy

Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:26 pm

I was trying to think of a faster way to find Dr. Huber's blue highlighted notes that many have shared in the giant 302 thread especially since they are often in response to a question someone has had. So in an effort to make it a bit easier, I've gone through the existing 302 threads and added the phrase "Dr. Huber Note" to the subject field of any posts sharing notes from him. To find them all:

Go to the EDS search field and type in Dr. Huber Note

Select "Search for all terms"

Where it says "Search previous", select "Search topic title"

Where it says "Return", select "All available" from the drop down menu

And finally at the bottom left, where it says "Display results as", choose "posts"

(where it says "Sort by", you can view them newest to oldest or vice-versa by selecting "Post Time" and choosing "ascending" or "descending"; or, say you were looking for a Dr Huber Note shared by Nemo, you may find it faster to choose sort by "Author" instead)

Hopefully this will make finding them a bit easier. Smile

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To find the 302 Handbook information shared by Boski & Nemo, search for 302 Handbook Excerpt using the same method.

free skin care · Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:07 pm

You have a lot of great questions there, maybe I can address one of them. Just because you experience no negatives after a couple of uses dosen't necessarily mean you should use it more often or move up. My skin is very resilient and I tried the 302 serum last year for a little while. I decided to try it again recently but, this time, I would follow the program and not just bits & pieces...

Naturally, I jumped into the 302 plus serum (the anti-aging blurb caught my eye). I had absolutely no negative reaction to it and started using it daily/ I also got the A boost after about 3 weeks. I noticed my skin was looking dull and tired on the 302 plus days. It would look great on A boost days. Normally, my reaction would have been to grab the first exfoliator I could find and scrub. This time, I knew the 302 plus, used daily, was too much. I switched over to the 302 serum and got the glow back. I may use the plus once a week to keep things interesting.Take it easy. Don't rush. It's worth the wait.

free skin care · Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:23 pm

MentorAmy05 wrote:

Thank you so very much, yet again.

I didn't realize there were this many products.

I am definately understanding better now.

So basically, I will stay on the 302 Drops for approx. 6 months and if I am not noticing any more improvements, then it would be fine to move to Level 2.......Thank you for clarifying this.

I also was reading back in the original thread and saw that liquid make up was okay to use, as long as it is not clogging the pores, etc. So that makes me feel better, as I thought that the liquid make-up may actually prevent or delay 302 results.

There are actually 38 products in the 302 skincare line. When I started, there was only 3. So I was forced to use only the F/B bar and the 302 serum in the beginning, yet I still saw results with my scars softening up.

This is the full list of current products. As you can see, it's a lot of products for lots of different problems. This is why you need a knowledgeable esthy (or 302 EDS old-timer) to guide you on what is appropriate for you.

Aging
302 Drops
302 Drops: High-Potency
302 Serum
302 Serum: High Potency
302 Plus Serum
Eye Firming Serum
A-Boost
C-Boost

Acne
302 Acne Drops
Acne Serum
Acne Cleanser
Acne Mist

Rosacea
302 Rosacea Drops
Rosacea Cleanser

Pigmentation
Lightening Drops
Lightening: Décolleté & Hand

Hydration
Calming Mist
Recovery Plus
Recovery Plus: Intensive
Body Treatment
Body Treatment: Intensive

Special Applications
Self Tanner
After Waxing
Lip Balm

Cleansers
302 Cleanser
Normal/Dry Cleanser
Oily/Combination Cleanser
Sensitive Cleanser
Face & Body Bar

Sun Protection
SPF-15
SPF-30
Recovery Minerals (SPF-30)

302 Clinical
Active Recovery: Face Rx
Active Recovery: Body & Scalp Rx
Ointment Rx
Recovery Mist
Recovery Lotion
Recovery Cleanser

You can move up to Hi-Potency Serum or Drops after 3 months, if you are not getting any results from the regular 302 Drops. If you are, just stay on the regular drops until you sense a plateau. This usually happens around the 6-8 month period. At this point you want to take a 2 or 3 week holiday from 302 actives. Stop using all the actives. You can keep using 302 cleansers, mists, Ointment RX, 302 SS, Recovery Minerals. During this time of using not applying 302 actives, your skin should not revert to it's original state. It will stay the same. Restart 302 as usual after this 302 "holiday" and your results should go to another level of improvement. You can restart with the next level of potency after your holiday too.

If you are wanting to speed things along for scar repair, you should start reading posts about ultrasound units. There are MANY posts in Part 1 about the specs and types of unit you want to use with 302. This will speed results and you can use ultrasound right now.

After 6 months, if you haven't seen much improvement, then start looking into deep dermarolling. Again, read all the posts on dermarolling before you start this method. This is alot more risky and painful than ultrasound. It has to be done in a sterile fashion and with the right length tool (1 or 1.5 mm). The 302 topicals you apply post roll are important too. There is a whole thread about dermarolling on the Tools forum.

I keep repeating this, but scarring takes a long time to fix. Don't expect a miracle to happen. It took me a year to get about 75% improvement, and 4+ years to get 90% improvement. You have a better than average chance because you are young, have never done acids or other invasive techniques (except that one laser treatment), and your scars are very shallow. Keep thinking positive but not to the point where you are inspecting your skin every day, and it will go much faster.

I hope you keep reading Part 1 blog, because lots of your questions about ultrasound, dermarolling and 302 products will be answered there.

Even though some people can wear liquid occasionally, I would try to stop using liquid makeup on a regular basis. You may not suffer breakouts from it, but clogged pores, blackheads and milia often result from it. Plus some ingredients in them might not be compatible with 302 Avogen. Better to switch to a very simple MMU for coverage if you are using 302. Eventually, you will need no makeup at all Wink

.

free skin care · Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:16 pm

HeavenLeigh wrote:

HI all - another update and bad news Sad

I just received the calming mist, acne cleanser and sensitive cleanser...sooo I started using these last week. And my breakouts have intensified around my chin area!!!!! Oh my goodness, it looks horrible.
I can't even use actives 3 times a week now, it seems a bit much. This was after I took a week of break from using actives. I've taken several breaks.I'm not sure why my skin has gone into this hypersensitive mode since about the 5 month mark..and especially since I started using the new cleansers. Are there any explanations for this? Perhaps it was reacting to the fact that my skin is no longer being 'fed' those irritants, I don't know.

So now, I think the most sensible thing to do is to take another step back and only mist + recovery minerals for TWO WEEKS and then we'll see what happens when I add back the actives.
This is upsetting because I have had such good results, but it does seem to be going backwards..i.e. skin texture HAS definitely improved, but the breakouts are getting more obvious and more numerous around the chin area. Now I have several red spots around my chin/mouth area, jawline and cheekbones.

HL, I'm sorry you're having trouble Sad

What was your routine initially, meaning, *before* receiving the cleansers/mist? And are the cleansers/mist the only changes?

Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:25 pm

queenkatez wrote:

I just read the summary report on Avocatin. Avocatin 302 does not penetrate skin.
What? I'm so confused now. I thought the 302 products (containing Avogen/Avocatin 302) were able to penetrate.

queenkatez, try looking on pages 16 (bottom) and 17 of the first 302 thread where Bethany etc. others had a few thoughts on the summary.

Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:35 am

Thought I'd throw out my 4 month progress report with 302.
I had dermabrasion for acne scars 13 years ago. This helped
quite a bit with the shadows of these scars, but the downside
the skin had a slightly different texture, and left a scarline on
my jaws. So dermabrasion was a bitter/sweet experience.
Had some chemical peels and collagen injections, but I was
still unhappy. Last winter did an overzealous chemical peel
at home and left a burn on my left cheek. An area of
discoloration kinda reddish.

The skin stabilized and was slooooowly healing. I dermarolled
2 times with a 1mm April/May. I felt this would initiate the
healing cascade for new skin. Since May, I havn't rolled.
I initiated 302 products to nourish my skin, and hopefully
enhance my 2 rolls.

Incorporating 302 went well. Probably over a 2 month period
to where I am today: Mon- 302 serum ; Tue- lightning drops: Wed-
A-Boost.... Then repeat Th/Fri/Sat and rest Sunday.

I have limited experience with 302, but here's what I've learned,
and its just my subjective opinion. The 302 serum sensed the
skin that I had dermabrasion with as "scar tissue". Its kind of a
hybrid skin that is skin, and funky scar tissue mixed. You would
not notice unless you really look close. This skin is being remodeled
into "regular skin". Definitely a big, big plus. It initially left my
skin looking worse. I came a whisker from ditching 302
because for a few weeks it really looked much worse. I think
I said "I'll give it another week or two", if it doesn't improve, that's it.
(I was over dosing the 302 drops, see below).

When I finally introduced the A-boost, and began using serum
instead of the drops and c,
it "clicked" for me. My skin took a tremdous turn for the
better in the past 3 weeks or so. I looked yesterday morning
closely, and would guess a 40% improvement.

Because you can't see my face its hard to describe, but the healing
has kind of 3 levels. Each level becoming progressively lighter
and smoother in color. The flat, white scar on my right cheek,
which had no character to it at all, now is dissolving, perhaps
25% gone, and I can see the vague outline of pores. The deeper
scar next to it is at "level 2", with one more level to go and its healed.
(went from level 3 to level 2) ..... (I realize I made up these names
for the levels, but believe me after looking at it for so long its
the way I describe it to myself). The quarter sized burn on my left
cheek is at level 2, finallllllllllllly sealing up from level 3.
I hope I am not rambling too much. The huge burn, maybe 2 inches
by 2 inches is at level 2. So it looks soooo much better.
Also interesting is the scar I was trying to get rid of last winter is
not reforming. It smooth now.

I don't mean to imply I looked horrible, horrible from the burn.
on a scale of 1-10, I would rate my problem a 3.5 on the scar/burn
scale. Psychologically the early part of the year was hard, really
hard.

302 seems to be working for me, I've even considered not dermarolling
anymore and just letting these products run their course.

Let's see, my only major mistake was using 302 drops wrong. I just cannot get
the hang of it and was overapplying, causing my "fake skin" to dissolve
too fast. When I started using the 302 serum, I really could dose the
appropriate amount onto my face. It took me 3 months, and I tried to
error on the side of caution, to establish the amount to apply. For me it
was really tricky. I can see why its necessary to have outside help.
My help was reading here, and speaking with the specialists where I
purchased the product. So that's it. I'll continue to read here and chime
in in the future again to progress what is happening. Best wishes to
All......... Let's see Boski, Septembergirl, rileygirl, lowbrow, mentor,
lexy, and all who contribute to this thread.

Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:22 am

It seems to me that this thread mixes up content of 302 skincare advice/reviews and discussion of who is the founder. The two topics are now getting too mixed up and since there are two camps of people - those that are interested in who the founder is and those who are not - the topic is being split. If you like to follow the discussion on who is Dr Huber then this thread now sits in the Skincare and Makeup forum (not Product Reviews) here: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35446. I will post a link at that thread shortly to make sure that new readers can keep up with both discussions.

FYI: One post was deleted from this thread because I am of the firm belief that there is no need to get snippy when someone disagrees with your opinion.

free skin care · Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:45 pm

So I got this reply back from 302:

Richard Huber and David Counts are independent researchers and the
originators of the 302 technology which they developed in conjunction with
Eli Lilly during the mid 1990's. The technology was ultimately patented in
the US (Huber and Counts US Patents 5,468,490 and 5,514,709) and subsequently acquired by 302 Professional Skincare, LLC.
However, neither Huber nor Counts are the founders of 302 as a commercial
enterprise, nor are they stockholders or owners. Huber has provided 302 with
technical and management assistance up until very recently but has since
discontinued these roles to devote his energies to a new pharmaceutical
project. Counts similarly provided technical assistance to the development
of the technology post Eli Lilly, especially in regard to synthetic
approaches and identification of potential 302 pathways. We do not have
their curricula vitae on file, but both have been very much involved in
either bone and/or connective tissue research and development for many years
in either academic or private capacities as biochemists. Hope that this
helps and thank you for your interest in 302.

(they said it was ok to share)

As for my experience with 302 products I'm really loving the rosacea cleanser and calming mist, both are making my skin feel great. I've been using the drops for about a month now, can't really tell any difference in my skin, but it's still early days. My plan is to use 302 exclusively until mid-Jan then re-evaluate. That's five months, so ample time for improvement if it's going to happen for me.

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:07 am

I just wanted to update since I've been using 302 for about 3 months now. I do have much healthier skin with better colour & texture..I'm starting to see shallower scars filling in, or at least my skin is smoother so they aren't as apparent. I'll wait a few more months before I can make a definitive statement on that. The one thing I was worried about before starting 302 was that I'd have to give up my exfoliators..both manual & AHA. The odd thing is, I look at my skin now and I don't need to exfoliate...that's one thing I didn't expect. The only product I didn't care for at first was the 302 eye serum. I didn't think it was moisturizing enough. That said, I'm on my second bottle and I do find a difference in terms of firmness and texture..milia is gone. Since winter's coming, I've added avocado oil around my eyes at night and this takes care of any dryness issues.

free skin care · Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:40 pm

I think Boski and Huber were personally offended after contributing a bunch of their time to this thread, and washed their hands of EDS. Yes, it would have been nice it they replied, but why bother when they already felt they were being attacked....I don't blame them in the least. We also lost Low in the process, and she definitely wasn't part of any scam...she was just a happy user who appears to have become tired of the irrelevant conversation.

I can personally say that 302 is one of my top 3 favorite skin care lines...my skin definitely looked fabulous when I was on it for 5 months. However, I did not see any improvement in my hyperpigmentation at all, thus my change to something else. But I still use the F&BB and the recovery minerals.

That said, I always recommend 302 to people with sensitive or acne prone skin and will continue to do so. I think they are great products...no matter who owns them, where they went to school, and what studies they have done but not published. As Scally used to say "The proof is in the pudding" and my pudding looked darn good while on 302. Very Happy

But please don't knock it until you try it, don't hold manufacturers to different standards, and don't dismiss others who the products do work for. YMMV applies to all lines...despite the studies and the degrees!

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:47 am

Some folks here post vast monologues as fact and we need to remember it is just their opinion, and usually the opinion of someone who has never bought a single 302 product.

No sooner did I post that it would be nice to continue a USER thread to answer questions and support each other, folks with "opinions" show up immediately and make statements that are NOT facts but opinion, or in other words, fiction.

302 Skincare has done wonderful things for many of us. What other skincare line has you using LESS product over time rather than more? Doesn't sound like a company that is trying to take my money and run. So if you don't like the line even though you've never used it, you don't like how the company is managed, then I suggest you find something that pleases you.

If you are a 302 user and the products do or don't work for you, then this is the thread to discuss it.

free skin care · Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:07 am

Lexyg wrote:

HeavenLeigh, it seems those who have "issues" (and I'm not talking skincare here) continue to post to upset the morale of the thread.

So why are we allowing the dissenters to ruin the thread? There are more than enough satisifed customers, who are NORMAL, to keep the thread going. I have to admit, without Boski, Lowbrow and a few others, it makes it hard to ask questions for support. But we can still play! And those that don't belong in this "sandbox" will have to go elsewhere to throw sand.

I've used 302 exclusively for 10 months now. I'm still a "newbie" in my book. I can't say enough good things about this line! It isn't easy to adjust and continually adjust; it didn't work miracles but it did some VERY NICE things for my skin: reduced pore size tremendously, continues to even skin tone so much so that I feel confident without makeup. I rarely have a clogged pore or three; the rosacea butterfly is less pink and still a work in progress. The idea that you use LESS of these products as your skin improves over the years is amazing to me. You start slow, build up, and then slow down forever.

Lexyg you took the words right out of my mouth. I've had almost the identical experiance as you for the same amount of time.

Also, for the "unhappy ones" who like to come here and stir up dirt,plant doubts, don't forget there is a "report post" function that can be used to record any unnecessary possibly malicious post content....for those of us who'd like to continue a peaceful rational and respectful discussion (detailing the personal pros and cons of 302 relative to our own use) I recommend we should all make use of this function and let the Mods deal with it. Don't waste time or breath trying to refute, they are not interested in "genuine users" who are happy with the product, they are only looking for those who can be influenced to become a disgruntled followers of their own brand of thinking. Leave them to it. Don't give them air time. They can post all they please but we don't have to keep responding.

One could also question their reasons for being so persistent in downgrading this line if they are not users? Are they somehow connected to a brand or line or company in competition to 302? What are their affliations? What is their professional background? Are they working in field of skincare and developing their own product? Is there any other agenda they are trying to cultivate?

So, for all those who like to pop into this thread and ask disingenuous questions to people who are trying this product out recently, perhaps you'd like to answer the 5 specific questions above and post your information for all here to see, since you've pushed so hard for others to do the same.

As for the rest of us happy users, we all have the choice to respond or ignore these inflammatory posts. What do you say we start using our "report post" button a little more often? That's all I have to say, I will be either ignoring or reporting offensive posts of the above described nature.

free skin care · Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:12 am

I've been using 302 for almost two years now. As with any line, some of the products are great fits, others not so much.

My skin is very fussy with sunscreen, and not surprisingly, the 302 sunscreens haven't worked for me. I use the Ointment Rx as a daily sunscreen, but give my skin regular breaks. If I don't--zits.

Cleansers: I alternate between the F&B bar and the Rosacea cleanser, washing in the evening.

Mist: Calming Mist (I found the Acne Mist too drying, but use it as a spot treatment.)

Actives: Rosacea Drops, C Boost, A Boost, 302 drops, alternating. I take two nights off.

Eyes: Eye Serum (kind of a "meh" for me. Firming when used, but have noticed no long term improvement, really.)

I live in Colorado, so in the winter I sometimes supplement with a carrier oil for moisture, emu or argan.

I like the 302 line because it's largely organic, relatively inexpensive, and overall, my skin looks pretty good for an old broad. I also like the "do no harm" philosophy; it makes intrinsic sense that overuse of acids could ultimately harm skin. Eventually, research will either bear this out or not. Very Happy

You do, however, have to "listen" to your skin. When I'm feeling "break outy," I rotate in the A Boost or Rosacea Drops. When I'm feeling dry, I cleanse with the Rosacea Cleanser. Conversely in the summer, I reach more for the F&B bar.

free skin care · Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:18 pm

Hi Mars!

OK – well in my opinion (but bear in mind I am not an esty!), I would say to take a look at how your skin is responding now, and use that as your guide.

I’m assuming you are using 302 exclusively. If you feel that your skin is “normalised” and not acting up at all from previous treatments that might have disturbed your skins function (in my case this was copper & acids), then you could move up.

In your place though, I would wait until my skin feels truly stabilized with the current regime. As long as you feel reasonably happy with how things are now, I really feel there is no rush. It’s a matter of letting your skin take the lead and coaxing it into a new way of acting!

If you don’t feel quite ready to try the 302 Plus serum yet, you could try taking a 2 week break from 302 (just use the bar/cleanser, and Recovery Plus or a just a plain oil), then re-start your usual regime. Some of us, myself included, find that taking a 302 break at around the 6 month mark accelerates results.

Or you might want to consider the high potency 302 drops or serum. I have the drops and I really love them! They are stronger than the normal drops, but not as strong as the 302 Plus Serum.

Hope this helps! Let us know how it goes ...

free skin care · Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:52 am

HI all,

Just a word of advice for users experiencing the uglies...I think it may just be a phase which should pass. I started in March and pretty much yo-yo'ed all the way through the minor improvements I saw. Breakouts, dry skin, blahness you name it... (stress of writing a thesis certainly didn't help!).

Anyway in the last 3 weeks or so, I suddenly saw a burst of improvement in my skin, it was as though it had improved up a noticeable threshold where it becomes quite obvious that it's been doing all the repairing all this while and I just wasn't sure. My skin seems to have regained that previous radiance, tighter pores and better moisture retention I had when I was 18. I'm still recovering from a bout of cystic acne breakout (due to thesis stress and eating crappy stuff more than anything else), but the skin is definitely looking younger.

I'm just over the moon! I don't think any other skincare could've made this difference. No my skin is far from perfect, but it looks stronger and healthier (like its pre-acid or early acid-use days). Might I add that the burst of improvements also only came after I slept well (meaning I sleep and wake up early) and ate well for a couple of weeks. In the past, I could have the same healthy lifestyle and wouldn't have been able to repair my skin to this extent. So my conclusion is that 302 is definitely doing something good, but it doesn't work in isolation. Rather, it works with synnergy through a healthy lifestyle!

This week I've been a tired/sleep-deprived mess, and usually my skin reflects this tiredness *very* obviously, rewards me with flakies and larger pores etc...but since recently, even when I was tired/sleep-deprived, I had nicer skin than before. Go figure!

So for those who have reached their 6 month milestone and are still experiencing problems, I think I would advise you to march on if you'd seen any sort of cumulative improvements along with some uglies. Things were problematic for me right up till the 6th or 7th month, and then it started improving dramatically. At this point, it looks like I'm not going to yo yo again, unless I get super-stressed again.

Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:40 pm

Hello all. I hope you don't mind my crashing your thread. I have read a lot about 302 Skincare in the last day or two. This product line mainly caught my attention because of the part about not using acids or things like BP on the skin.

I used ProActiv from about 2001-2006 and it caused a lot of irritation, chronic inflammation, UV sensitivity, and damaged my skin, making it look significantly older.

In 2006 I started looking for alternatives to ProActiv, and eventually went to using homemade aspirin toner and/or aspirin masks for a while to keep my skin under control during this transition. It took me a while to wean off of the ProActiv, as anyone who has used BP probably knows, it is difficult to just stop using it with out getting terrible rebound acne. The aspirin masks and toner kept my skin pretty clear, but I didn't feel good about the long term effects of using acidic aspirin on my face.

I ended up switching to the Acne Gel sold by Best Bath Store which was almost completely natural, it's main active ingredient being manuka honey which is very gentle and healing. It proved to be a much better alternative to ProActiv, though not completely non-irritating.

I also went back to using completely natural products by Aubrey Organics including their Sea Buckthorn Cleanser and an exfoliating scrub, along with Emu Oil as a facial moisturizer, which helped a lot and started to finally decrease my skin's chronic inflammation a bit, though I still had a long way to go.

At this point I could see some improvement, but I still tended to have a lot of irritation and redness in my face, and it didn't take much to get red bumps, although I was usually able to keep them from turning into full blown acne blemishes.

Well, to make a long story even longer... I came across some information about washing your face with only water, which made a lot of sense to me and was accompanied by many rave reviews... which led me to reading some posts on this site about certain microfiber cloths used with water only.

I ended up buying a $10 Wonder Cloth last year and committed to using only water to wash my face (with the wonder cloth) in the mornings, and also in the evenings if I wasn't wearing any makeup. The Wonder Cloth can completely remove makeup without cleanser, but then you have to clean it off the cloth. Since I'm lazy, if I have makeup on, I use either Aubrey Organics Everyday Liquid Body Soap, or their Sea Buckthorn cleanser - apply it with my hands, rinse it off along with any makeup, and then I go over my face twice with the Wonder Cloth. (Gently.)

The idea behind this method is to restore your skin's natural, protective mantle. I have know a few women over the years who never got into using cleansers, exfoliators, toners, makeup etc. and they always had perfect poreless, unblemished skin their whole lives, which seemed to support this philosophy.

After I dried my face, I would spray it with Heritage Rosewater Spray and then apply my Emu Oil. For a while I was still applying the Acne Treatment Gel every once in a while since I was still afraid of breakouts, but other than that... I didn't use any harsh product or synthetic chemicals on my face.

I have to say, the results were really incredible. The irritation and redness went way down, and I noticed pretty quickly that the scarring looked tremendously reduced on my cheeks. That really surprised me.

Breakouts were also reduced, and I pretty much stopped breaking out other than TTOTM, which was minimal. I think this was because my skin was so much less irritated washing it with water, and because the Wonder Cloth exfoliated so well, but much more gently than any topical product.

My skin became much more smooth, and I was thrilled to have the fine lines and scars diminish, and my chronically enlarged pores have almost disappeared.

This year I have switched from Emu Oil to Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil after reading a blog post by the owner of Adorned With Grace Minerals, which shed new light on why it can actually help prevent breakouts.

(I also started using Lucy Minerals foundation this year which has Coffee Fruit extract in it, and I have also been super impressed with that too.)

Anyway... the reason I have posted all of this in great detail on this particular thread is because after reading what I have about 302 Skincare and comparing it with my own experience just quitting and weaning from harsh irritating ingredients and even cleansers most of the time... it made me wonder how much of the benefit that people find following the 302 Skincare protocol is due to going off of acids and other irritating chemicals.

As someone who used BP and salicylic acid for so many years, the improvement just by giving those up and finding a natural and non-irritating routine has given my skin a chance to recover and heal... and the results have been tremendous. I am turning 45 and still get carded. (I love to see the shock on the person's face when they see my birth date and do a double take.)

So is there really something about the way they chemically changed avocado in a lab, (so that they could patent a natural substance and charge a ridiculous amount of money,) that really makes the difference? I don't know... but I can't help but ponder the question given my own experience.

I thought about trying it just to see, but for me personally, the products are not natural enough to take the chance, and way too pricey considering the results I am getting from water, a reusable cloth, rosewater spray and organic coconut oil. (And recently also the coffee fruit extract in my mineral makeup. - I'm even thinking of adding a bit of either reservatol or coffeeberry to my coconut oil so I can have the benefits on the rest of my body instead of just my face where I apply my mineral makeup.)

So... I hope this post doesn't offend or annoy anyone who uses the pricey 302 Skincare line. I just thought I would share my experience in case it could help someone who wants to get a similar result using a non-irritating routine, and also because I'm interested if anyone has any opinions on my theory that perhaps all or most of the benefits come from stopping the use of irritating products and instead using natural (or in the case of 302 somewhat natural) products. My way is much simpler and way easier on the wallet. Smile

PS: Sorry for writing so much, but I like to try and be as precise as possible about all the variables involved... in case anyone finds my ramblings helpful.

free skin care · Wed May 05, 2010 6:30 am

Quote:

Hey Nakidknits,

You use the ointment has a sunscreen correct? I was wondering how much do you apply to your face and neck? I've used the ointment a couple of times for a sunscreen. It's just hard to know how to much to apply!

I use a pea-sized amount on top of the Calming Mist. I spray my face until it's pretty damp, then quickly spread the Rx Ointment. I don't rub it in. If I'm going to be in the sun, I also wear a hat.

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