Shop with us!!! We sell the most advanced skin care anti-aging cosmetics on the market: cellex-c, phytomer, sothys, dermalogica, md formulations, decleor, valmont, kinerase, yonka, jane iredale, thalgo, yon-ka, ahava, bioelements, jan marini, peter thomas roth, murad, ddf, orlane, glominerals, StriVectin SD.
 
 back to skin care discussion board front page with forums indexEDS Skin Care Forums Search the ForumSearch Most popular all-time Forum TopicsHot! Library
 Guidelines  FAQ  Register
Free gifts for Forum MembersForum Gifts Free Gifts offers at Essential Day SpaFree Gifts Offers  Log in



in vitro study–zinc oxide damages lung cells
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum
Reply to topic
Author Message
jazzi
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 186
Wed May 09, 2012 2:50 am      Reply with quote
That micronized and nano zinc isn't actually stable has been known for ages. It breaks down in sunlight, just like any other filter does. Of course, people with $$$ interest in the whole thing and some mad "scientists" would have us believe otherwise, and we (meaning consumers) are shown data relating to classic bulk zinc oxide which has this incredible photo stability and amazing UV absorbtion range from UVC and even some of the visible light spectrum, but that has very little to do with the Finex, Z-Cote, Nanox and other zinc oxide forms used in sunscreens.

Whether that all applies to zinc that's on skin is same question as with titanium dioxide. That one also produces ROS, but whether they damage skin is not said. AFAIK.

Would I stress over it? No. What I personally do is I pick a sunscreen that has coated zinc oxide in it. Coatings of all kinds have always been shown to prolong the life of any sunscreen filter and help reduce ROS and other ugly things produced by sunscreen breakdown.
agatha
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 98
Wed May 16, 2012 8:57 am      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:


I know and EWG tends to be on the tough side of warnings!

My two Burnout SS are rated 1 for kids and 2 for the clean and clear. I just refuse to go crazy over this I am in South Florida and can't tolerate chemical SS on my face! Shock


It makes no sense to fuss over every scientific finding they come up with IMO. It's good to be informed, but not too flustered. When it comes to cancer, I'm personally more concerned with what kind of food I buy in a supermarket, daily level of stress at work, do I live near the cell tower etc., rather than a small amount of SS I apply to my face.
lagomorph
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
Wed May 16, 2012 10:54 am      Reply with quote
From my (very limited) understanding the coating/carrier makes a difference in how stable the zinc particles are? For ex Blue Lizard sunscreen (which is either nano or microfine zinc based) has a silicone carrier. Remember this was an in vitro study of lung cells + nano zinc w/no carrier.

Anyway I'm not going to stress about it either, just keep my eye out for further studies. I use euro sunscreens most of the time but I hate having to order them online + they get expensive because I go through tons.

I sometimes wear a chemical zinc sunscreen around my eyes if I'm going to be outside exercising in the heat. I find US chemical sunscreens are much worse in terms of eye sting/sensitivity than euro chemicals sunscreens. On of the best things for the eye area is just a huge pair of sunglasses. I'm like a mole and practically blind in sunlight because I never go out w/out them.
DarkMoon
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 10206
Wed May 16, 2012 11:09 am      Reply with quote
fitgineer wrote:
lagomorph wrote:
From my (very limited) understanding the coating/carrier makes a difference in how stable the zinc particles are? For ex Blue Lizard sunscreen (which is either nano or microfine zinc based) has a silicone carrier. Remember this was an in vitro study of lung cells + nano zinc w/no carrier.

Anyway I'm not going to stress about it either, just keep my eye out for further studies. I use euro sunscreens most of the time but I hate having to order them online + they get expensive because I go through tons.

I sometimes wear a chemical zinc sunscreen around my eyes if I'm going to be outside exercising in the heat. I find US chemical sunscreens are much worse in terms of eye sting/sensitivity than euro chemicals sunscreens. On of the best things for the eye area is just a huge pair of sunglasses. I'm like a mole and practically blind in sunlight because I never go out w/out them.


How can you tell that Blue Lizard has a silicone carrier? The sensitive version was recommended to me, so I've been considering it:
http://www.dermstore.com/product_Blue+Lizard+Sensitive+Sunscreen+SPF+30+Plus_27178.htm

Quote:
Ingredients: 10% Micronized Zinc Oxide, 5% Micronized Titanium Dioxide. Purified Water, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Ethylhexyl Stearate, Polyglyceryl-4 Isostearate, Cetyl Dimethicone, Copolyol, Hexyl Laurate, Cetyl Dimethicone, Propylene Glycol, Trimethylated Silica/dimethicone, Methyl Glcose Dioleate, Octododecyl Neopentanoate, VP Hexadecene Copolymer, Tocopheryl Acetate (vitamin E), PEG-7 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Beeswax, Hydrogentated Castor Oil, Sorbitol Oleate, Stearic Acid, Diazolidinyl Urea, Disodium EDTA, Methylparaben, Propylparaben And Ethylparaben.
Shake well prior to use. Apply liberally to dry skin before sun exposure. Children under 6 months of age: ask a doctor. Reapply to dry skin as needed or after towel drying, swimming or sweating.


What European brands have you tried and liked?

TIA


Yes on silicones...always look for the ingredients that end in cone eg:

Cetyl Dimethicone listed 2X

Trimethylated Silica/dimethicone

_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON....
fitgineer
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 453
Wed May 16, 2012 11:13 am      Reply with quote
Always helpful, DM. Thank you!

DarkMoon wrote:
fitgineer wrote:
lagomorph wrote:
From my (very limited) understanding the coating/carrier makes a difference in how stable the zinc particles are? For ex Blue Lizard sunscreen (which is either nano or microfine zinc based) has a silicone carrier. Remember this was an in vitro study of lung cells + nano zinc w/no carrier.

Anyway I'm not going to stress about it either, just keep my eye out for further studies. I use euro sunscreens most of the time but I hate having to order them online + they get expensive because I go through tons.

I sometimes wear a chemical zinc sunscreen around my eyes if I'm going to be outside exercising in the heat. I find US chemical sunscreens are much worse in terms of eye sting/sensitivity than euro chemicals sunscreens. On of the best things for the eye area is just a huge pair of sunglasses. I'm like a mole and practically blind in sunlight because I never go out w/out them.


How can you tell that Blue Lizard has a silicone carrier? The sensitive version was recommended to me, so I've been considering it:
http://www.dermstore.com/product_Blue+Lizard+Sensitive+Sunscreen+SPF+30+Plus_27178.htm

Quote:
Ingredients: 10% Micronized Zinc Oxide, 5% Micronized Titanium Dioxide. Purified Water, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Ethylhexyl Stearate, Polyglyceryl-4 Isostearate, Cetyl Dimethicone, Copolyol, Hexyl Laurate, Cetyl Dimethicone, Propylene Glycol, Trimethylated Silica/dimethicone, Methyl Glcose Dioleate, Octododecyl Neopentanoate, VP Hexadecene Copolymer, Tocopheryl Acetate (vitamin E), PEG-7 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Beeswax, Hydrogentated Castor Oil, Sorbitol Oleate, Stearic Acid, Diazolidinyl Urea, Disodium EDTA, Methylparaben, Propylparaben And Ethylparaben.
Shake well prior to use. Apply liberally to dry skin before sun exposure. Children under 6 months of age: ask a doctor. Reapply to dry skin as needed or after towel drying, swimming or sweating.


What European brands have you tried and liked?

TIA


Yes on silicones...always look for the ingredients that end in cone eg:

Cetyl Dimethicone listed 2X

Trimethylated Silica/dimethicone
jazzi
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 186
Wed May 16, 2012 11:53 am      Reply with quote
From what I'm told and have read on this subject, coating creates a sort of bubble around the filter substance, so it doesn't come in direct contact with skin. The filter itself might just as well degrade, but most of the mess created in the process is kept away from our skins. There might be other benefits as well, depending on the filter and the material used for the process.

I think it has to be imagined a bit like candied fruit, even if the apple within starts to rot, the sugar coat keeps the stench away. Laughing

That doesn't really apply to other substances in any given formula. Coatings vary greatly, in case of zinc oxide, from silicones to plain stearic acid. Coating has to be bonded with the zinc particle, simply adding some saturated fatty acids or silicones to the formula won't do the trick, even if the whole mix is stirred at high speeds for days like any proper sunscreen should be. If it would be that easy, which it obviously isn't, no one would pay the higher price for ready-made coated sunscreen filters, everyone would just throw some dimethicone in their formula. In other words, just because there is some ingredient that under other circumstances might double as coating doesn't yet mean that this particular sunscreen passes as coated-particle sunscreen. For some weird reason, coatings usually don't show up on ingredient lists, similarly as it is with preservatives and solvents used for extracts or actives. For example, Elta MD sunscreen filters are supposed to be coated, but even though lots of silicones and other polymers show up on their INCI lists, sunscreen coatings are not among them. It's infuriating. Rolling Eyes
fitgineer
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 453
Fri May 25, 2012 10:27 am      Reply with quote
I found this article on the skin penetration of nano-sized TnO(2) particles (figured it might be of interest as well):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20118631

Quote:
Abstract
It is important for toxicological assessment of nanoparticles to determine the penetration of nanoparticle in skin qualitatively and quantitatively. Skin penetration of four different types of rutile titanium dioxide (TiO(2)) (T-35, 35 nm, non-coating; TC-35, 35 nm, with almina/silica/silicon coating; T-disp, 10 x 100 nm, mixture of almina coated and silicon coated particles, dispersed in cyclopentasiloxan; T-250, 250 nm, non-coating) was determined with in vitro intact, stripped, and hair-removed skin of Yucatan micropigs to study the effect of dispersion and skin conditions. The TiO(2) was suspended in a volatile silicone fluid used for cosmetics, cyclopentasiloxane, at a concentration of 10%. The suspension was applied at a dose 2 microl/cm(2) for 24 hr, followed by cyanoacrylate stripping. The Ti concentration in skin was determined by ICP-MS. T-35 and T-250 easily aggregated in suspension with a mean diameter greater than 1 microm. TC-35 and T-disp showed good dispersion properties with a mean diameter in suspension of approximately 100 nm. No penetration was observed regardless of TiO(2) type in intact and stripped skin. The concentration of Ti in skin was significantly higher when TC-35 was applied on hair-removed skin. SEM-EDS observation showed that Ti penetrated into vacant hair follicles (greater than 1 mm below the skin surface), however, it did not penetrate into dermis or viable epidermis.

_________________
Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging...
fawnie
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2284
Fri May 25, 2012 1:16 pm      Reply with quote
Coated zinc oxide (any size particle) is best. The problem with zinc is that it was shown to cause respiratory disease in rats when inhaled. Presumably they were subjected to a higher dose than humans would be if we applied it in lotion, cream or ointment form.

The problem with UNcoated titanium dioxide is that its photocatalytic, so its imperative to look for coated TiO2 if you want to use that ingredient in your sunscreen. When in doubt, ask the company that makes it if its coated.
fitgineer
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 453
Fri May 25, 2012 1:30 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
If everyone concerned wants correct information from SS manufacturers then click a few links and take action!


Angry About SS Labeling?

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45810


Of course, thanks for the reminder! Smile

_________________
Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging...
System
Automatic Message
Mon Feb 24, 2025 6:45 am
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.

Reply to topic



PSF Pure Skin Formulations Retinol Nano Lotion (30 ml / 1 floz) Dr Hauschka Regenerating Intensive Eye Serum (15 ml) Dr Dennis Gross Vitamin C Lactic Oil-Free Radiant Moisturizer (50 ml / 1.7 floz)



Shop at Essential Day Spa

©1983-2025 Essential Day Spa & Skin Care Store |  Forum Index |  Site Index |  Product Index |  Newest TOPICS RSS feed  |  Newest POSTS RSS feed


Advanced Skin Technology |  Ageless Secret |  Ahava |  AlphaDerma |  Amazing Cosmetics |  Amino Genesis |  Anthony |  Aromatherapy Associates |  Astara |  B Kamins |  Babor |  Barielle |  Benir Beauty |  Billion Dollar Brows |  Bioelements |  Blinc |  Bremenn Clinical |  Caudalie |  Cellcosmet |  Cellex-C |  Cellular Skin Rx |  Clarisonic |  Clark's Botanicals |  Comodynes |  Coola |  Cosmedix |  DDF |  Dermalogica |  Dermasuri |  Dermatix |  DeVita |  Donell |  Dr Dennis Gross |  Dr Hauschka |  Dr Renaud |  Dremu Oil |  EmerginC |  Eminence Organics |  Fake Bake |  Furlesse |  Fusion Beauty |  Gehwol |  Glo Skin Beauty |  GlyMed Plus |  Go Smile |  Grandpa's |  Green Cream |  Hue Cosmetics |  HydroPeptide |  Hylexin |  Institut Esthederm |  IS Clinical |  Jan Marini |  Janson-Beckett |  Juara |  Juice Beauty |  Julie Hewett |  June Jacobs |  Juvena |  KaplanMD |  Karin Herzog |  Kimberly Sayer |  Lifeline |  Luzern |  M.A.D Skincare |  Mary Cohr |  Me Power |  Nailtiques |  Neurotris |  Nia24 |  NuFace |  Obagi |  Orlane |  Osea |  Osmotics |  Payot |  PCA Skin® |  Personal MicroDerm |  Peter Thomas Roth |  Pevonia |  PFB Vanish |  pH Advantage |  Phyto |  Phyto-C |  Phytomer |  Princereigns |  Priori |  Pro-Derm |  PSF Pure Skin Formulations |  RapidLash |  Raquel Welch |  RejudiCare Synergy |  Revale Skin |  Revision Skincare |  RevitaLash |  Rosebud |  Russell Organics |  Shira |  Silver Miracles |  Sjal |  Skeyndor |  Skin Biology |  Skin Source |  Skincerity / Nucerity |  Sothys |  St. Tropez |  StriVectin |  Suki |  Sundari |  Swissline |  Tend Skin |  Thalgo |  Tweezerman |  Valmont |  Vie Collection |  Vivier |  Yonka |  Yu-Be |  --Discontinued |