Osmosis Harmonized Waters
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free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:27 am

[Moderator: This discussion has been split from the Ageless Secret thread]
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Don't forget that Joella also sells those Osmosis "Harmonized" waters, including:

- Breathe Harmonized Water (Improves breathing; Assists to open airway; Reduces sensitivity to allergens)

- Cramp-Free HW (Reduces menstrual cycle symptoms; Lower's the body's pain awareness; Provides relief from discomfort)

- Hormone Balance HW (Reduces menopausal symptoms; Normalizes hormone imbalances; Helps with irregular menstruation)

- Neutralize HW (Reduces effects of acidity; Improves digestive concerns related to acidity; Alkalinizing effect on circulation)

- Organ Protection HW (Improves the function of all organs; Balances thyroid, stomach, spleen, kidneys, pancreas, adrenals and liver)

- Rejuvenate Mind and Body (Improves muscle development; Enhances mental activity; Rejuvenates cells)

- Women's Hair and Nail (Rejuvenates hair follicles; Reduces hair loss; Strengthens nails)

- UV Protection Harmonized Water (Neutralizes UV radiation; Allows for increased sun exposure (30x more than normal); Enhances tanning effect from the sun)

Achieve UV 30 protection with our innovative new technology that isolates out the precise frequencies needed to protect you from UV rays. Our new Harmonized Water with UV Protection offers UV 30 protection with increased tanning response and is chemical free. Check out these great success stories!

"I was thrilled to hear about the UV water and tested it on my son who had a sport camp every day for a week. The temperature that week was ranging from 98 to 102 degrees. When he came home and his skin was neither red nor burnt. My son told me: “the water really works!” No need to apply sunscreen."
-Caroline

"Harmonized UV Water is a fantastic answer to sun protection living in New Zealand. Kiwi’s are under constant attack from harsh sun because of the depleted O-Zone layer affecting New Zealand.
Determined to put this water to the test I drank a cap full 1-hour before venturing out. The first thing I noticed was that I never experienced feeling the sting and bite from the sun that I would normally feel. After 3 hours there was a very slight demarcation line from where skin had been exposed, which was not red or pink but to my delight a slight tan did exist.
Harmonized Water is like a second skin of protection, which is healthy and natural. I love it!
- Kay, New Zealand

Directions
Take 2ml every 4 hours while in the sun (preferably with 2+ ounces of water). Wait 1 hour before exposure to the sun. Monitor sun exposure carefully. Take second dose if still in sun 3 hours after first dose. Sweat or salt water will negate frequencies until rinsed off. For extended intense exercise or exposure to salt water, use alternate protection after 30-40 minutes.

I gave up on JoElla and Osmosis a long time ago.

http://www.karinherzog-jmilan.com/search.asp?keyword=harmonized

free skin care · Thu May 10, 2012 1:20 pm

Hello again Dr. Johnson. You just made a fan of me on one key issue: you showed up! I am impressed that you would agree to enter a debate on this product and the science underlying it. I respect any scientist willing to publicly defend his position. Though I am obviously skeptical at the start here, I promise to listen and am willing to be moved by a good argument based on well-established facts and good scientific logic. Welcome, and let the debate begin.

My background is clinical medicine, metabolism, and physiology/cell biology. While not a nuclear physicist or chemist, I know a fair amount about radio waves. I helped to found a company that has reinvented precision radiolocation (www.locata.com) which is all about the synchronization of radio waves to allow precise positioning. We can pull radio waves with great precision. Not to mention measure location in mm.

If you will indulge me, can we start with an examination of the underlying science (physics & chemistry) before moving on to clinical effects. As I teach here and at BFT, it helps a lot to establish a clear foundation for understanding biochemical effects. If something defies all known science facts and makes no sense physiologically, acceptance is going to be a tough hill to climb no matter what clinical data is used to support. At some point we can discuss why that is.

Here is the definition of harmonized water from the Osmosis Pur website:
What is "Harmonized Water"?
Harmonized water is a combination of waters that contain different vibrational frequencies. Unlike structured water, which addresses the tendency of water molecules to cluster together, harmonized water describes the frequencies that water carries in its proton/electron outer shell. Water has the ability to carry “frequency messages” for extended periods of time and we have found that some of these messages harmonize internal imbalances in our body.

Now we know that protons within water molecules (each composed of two hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom to make H20 ) can be excited by external energy to vibrate, and that the frequency of that vibration can be detected. Indeed, that is the basis magnetic imaging. However, we also know that the vibrations cease within milliseconds of the removal of the very high energy from those very powerful magnets. When that happens, the protons return to their “relaxed” state, where they started. The difference between excited and relaxed states is what helps create the images of MRI.

But in order for the statement harmonized water describes the frequencies that water carries in its proton/electron outer shell to be true, one would have to assume that the water (not under an MRI magnet) was emitting radio frequency energy. But without a very powerful energy source to “excite” water, it doesn’t have that capability. Water at rest is very quiet. Which is good, otherwise the oceans and lakes would provide so much noise that radio waves all over the planet would be made useless.

Radio waves are waves of energy (excited electrons). Water at rest is about the most inert chemical known. If it were emitting energy, that energy would have to be conserved (basic law of physics). Which means the water would have to give up its potential energy, which is to say its chemical bonds. The result of that is a hydrogen bomb. it requires a whole lot of external energy to make one of those go off.

So, as you can see, I am having problems with the idea of water emitting radio frequencies from its outer shell in the absence of simultaneous external energy, and lots of it. Basic problem of physics and chemistry. If you can help me to understand this part, we could then move on to how these messages harmonize internal imbalances in our body. And other statements like the reality is that every cell in your body (and everything in nature) has its own unique frequency, very much like a fingerprint. Again, excuse the skepticism, but I am surprised that as a physician and scientist I have never heard of this. It would be quite marvelous if it’s true, because I have the equipment to measure the tiniest of radio waves, and would love to be able to do things like track cells that leave one spot and migrate to another. Which reminds me, could you send me some harmonized water so I can test it? Which frequencies should I be looking for.

I thank you again (as I am sure others here do as well) for your willingness to answer questions and enter into a collegial debate. Here is your opportunity to educate a discerning audience.

free skin care · Thu May 10, 2012 3:49 pm

Sorry, should have provided the link and thanks to DM for doing so. Who is on first??? Laughing

free skin care · Thu May 10, 2012 4:02 pm

jom wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

rmc7 wrote:

the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go Question

Dr. Johnson answered Dr. J on the other thread.

I am not seeing a response from Dr. Johnson, do you know where it is?

It disappeared. It was a pretty long reply, and he offered to send some product to Dr. J. Nothing worthy of deleting though.

FYI... He asked Dr. J to pm him with a physical address so that Dr. J could test the water.

Thu May 10, 2012 4:05 pm

Wow! Look at the anticipation. Smile

Sorry all, Dr Johnson's reply was inadvertently posted in the wrong thread and so I have pm'd him asking that he re-post it here which I am sure he will. Please be patient. Thank you.

Thu May 10, 2012 5:10 pm

Hi DrJ,
Yes, I appreciate the confusion here. I cannot give you specifics on the actual process we use to imprint the radio frequencies on the water (as it is proprietary) but I can explain my view of how it works. Please understand that I do not profess to be an expert in molecular physics or even frequency medicine. I am a general practice physician who took a remarkable technology and, utilizing the research and insight of others along with my own insight, created the formulas for the Harmonized Water products.

My understanding of what is occurring at the molecular level of water is that the frequencies are being imprinted by a radio-frequency generator (and other devices) which result in the water acting as a carrier without any change to the chemical obonds themselves and without an ongoing excited state. While the H2O molecule itself gets excited in the process, I would agree that it recalibrates in milliseconds. However, it is my contention that the frequencies remain within the water molecule after the structure itself is no longer excited and our own testing suggests that they remain at least 5 years. How did we test the presence of frequencies? We have yet to find a device that can read or show their presence, unfortunately. However, we sent our anti-bacterial frequency enhanced water to a lab that uses a specific process to test it. They have proven that it is anti-bacterial and have also proven that it is still anti-bacterial 5 years later.

This concept is supported by the images that Dr Imoto has captured showing changes to the molecular shape of water. I believe those images of distorted molecules indicate that toxins, which are frequencies at their core (to be discussed) or the frequency imprint of those toxins, appear to remain in the molecule if there is a long continuous exposure of toxins (like a polluted lake, etc). The toxic water is still water and appears to be water, but his photographs of the shape of the molecules indicate that water holds its bonds but distorts its shape depending on the frequencies present. I assume that our Harmonized Water might have some varying shapes in the same testing environment but we have not asked him to take those pictures for us.

I am aware that there have been a handful of tests done on varying molecular structures where they have temporarily been able to retain information (frequencies) on certain substances. The emphasis being on "temporarily". My partner figured out a method to make that information stay for a very long time.

The other important aspect of my approach here is the concept of the body being an elaborate collection of many trillions of frequencies. NASA data has identified the frequencies for the atomic table as well as many substances found in nature (I have seen the list), quantum physicists and a growing number of researchers are aligned on the view that everything in nature and in our body has a distinct frequency signature. Changes to cell structures are likely the result of changed frequencies. We are attempting to neutralize certain frequencies and enhance others in the formulas we provide to improve the well being of many. As to whether or not the water is emitting a frequency, it is, as are all things in nature. I can only assume that when the water has been modified by our proprietary process it emits all of the frequencies we have imprinted as well. Again, I would love to meet someone who has a device to measure this. It is my understanding that NASA has such a device but nothing seems to be available to the consumer. Hopefully your device can. Can water emit more than one frequency and stay stable? Using the same assumptions that every atomic component has its own distinct vibration, then water already emits a multitude of frequencies that can also be measured as the resonant frequency and so a few more do not seem implausible to me. I imagine you see the emissions from things in nature as electromagnetic "radiation". But what is radiation comprised of? My answer is many spec8fic, unique frequencies generated by the many subatomic “parts” of the body as well as the resonant frequencies of larger tissues like organs.

I would be happy to send you some of the water. The frequencies we use are proprietary and scrambling waves have been added to protect that, but I could send you a water treated with say 10hz and hopefully your device can read it. Can you tell me the name of the device you have? If you are unable to detect the frequencies of cells, perhaps because each cell is billions and/or trillions of individual frequencies, then I am not sure the device is going to get the job done with my water either. But test it we shall! As for information regarding the specifics of my belief that everything has a vibrational signature, I will start the pursuit to gather sources over the coming weeks. I tend to read a lot and do not necessarily keep the information or the source...it is a bad habit ☺ However, I am confident that if you start by looking at the papers relating to Super String Theory and other related material you will find what you are looking for. I guess I also chalk it up to common sense that we know that we all emit energy/radiation, we can measure our mV's and our brain waves, etc. and I assume that this radiation is comprised of a multitude of wavelengths. The other option is that we emit random wavelengths with no purpose. The latter seems far more unlikely to me since the human body is miraculous in its complexity.

Please send me your address in a private message and we can go from there.

Thanks

free skin care · Fri May 11, 2012 7:58 am

So we're back in school here?

free skin care · Fri May 11, 2012 5:10 pm

Does everyone remember my post on the Ageless Secret thread when I spoke to Dr. Karl Kruszelnicki (an eminent scientist in Australia) on the radio about harmonized waters? He also stated that the work of Masaru Emoto has been widely condemned by the scientific community. His photos, particularly, were all shown to be bogus and fake. I'm surprised that Dr. Johnson is still a proponent of this man's work.

free skin care · Sat May 12, 2012 11:38 am

DrJ wrote:

This is a totally brilliant site written by Stephen Lower, a retired faculty member of the Dept of Chemistry, Simon Fraser University, B.C. Canada. A fellow Canuck and quackbuster.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html

It covers everything you need to know about water quackery, the key players, etc. A terrific read.

Yes, that is the website I originally found and posted on the Ageless Secret thread. Actually there are a lot of scientific references to water scams posted on that thread. Keliu took it further, and directly contacted at least 3 scientists from around the world (US, England, Canada, Australia) and the consensus was don't believe what those quack websites are saying ... the science is impossible. Stephen Barrett over at QuackWatch also provides good information.

Here is what Dr. Lower had to say in response to an e-mail that Keliu sent to him regarding Ageless Secret:

Thank you for your note. This appears to be a typical quackery scam. There is no such thing as "dark energy" outside the field of astronomy. Bubble-wrap is transparent to X-radiation, which will not damage ordinary substances anyway. The page http://www.agelesssecret.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=219 that describes "the expansion of water" is nonsense; I suspect he is adding some liquid other than water, possibly alcohol, which would show the same effect. Of course I have no idea whether this substance does erase wrinkles. As to the fiction of "anti-ageing" nostrums, please see http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-truth-about-human-agi. (I have always admired individuals who age gracefully and don't try to hide it!)
Promotions of these kinds are designed to appeal to the vast majority of consumers whose inadequate background in science leaves them open to evangelistic sales pitches that are typically full of misleading statements and unverifiable "case histories". People who waste their money on these scams are in effect paying a tax on scientific ignorance.
I suspect that much of the appeal of pseudoscience and quackery is that they provide simplistic answers that give scientifically-naïve people the illusion of control and understanding of what they perceive as an impossibly complex and overwhelming world. The low standard of North American science education and the "powerful strain of intertwined ignorance, anti-rationalism and anti-intellectualism" that Susan Jacoby describes in her book "The Age of American Unreason" can only encourage the aggressive marketing of commercial and intellectual snake oils of all kinds. Especially egregious are those who prey on individuals who are dealing with the emotional trauma of a life-threatening disease.
In contrast to the very weak evidence for the efficacy of most "alternative" remedies, there is abundant documented evidence for the benefits of getting plenty of exercise, a healthy diet, freedom from stress, and engagement in fulfilling creative, social or spiritual activities. Unfortunately, many commercial interests would like people to believe that it's easier to simply take some magical nostrum!

But some people believe what they want to believe. Consumer beware!

free skin care · Sat May 12, 2012 8:36 pm

Glamcat wrote:

It is a shame that Dr Johnson does not visit this forum often as I always enjoyed reading his posts. From my own knowledge about skincare ingredients and the function of the skin, his posts always made sense to me and seemed to be based in fact.

I know he got some negative comments as people felt he was biased, so I dont really blame him for not returning.

People really should be more gracious when people of Dr Johnson's calibre visit the forum and share their insights. My mother taught me: "If you havent got anything nice to say, dont say it at all." I try my best to adhere to this wisdom.

To my knowledge no-one has been outright rude to Dr. Johnson - and EVERYONE appreciates it when manufacturers come on the forum to answer specific questions about their products.

But surely, when a product is so "suspect" people have a right to question the science behind it. I will never say anything "nice" about harmonized waters - but that is in no way meant to be interpreted as my being rude to Dr. Johnson.

If we strongly disagree with something - are we meant to just "shut up and put up" just for the sake of being polite? That makes no sense to me. Knowledge is power - and we all have the right to ask questions. And if I were you, I would really be asking Dr. Johnson some pertinent questions before you give him your money for a bottle of water.

free skin care · Sat May 12, 2012 10:50 pm

I think we're very fortunate here at EDS to have a well moderated forum. I belong to a photography forum (where the members are mostly male)and the language, insults and rudeness are truly awful. It is the case that when communicating in the written word, replies can often seem blunt and even offensive - even when they're not meant to be. But overall I think we're not too bad but when we are, Havanah is there to give us the chop!

free skin care · Sun May 13, 2012 11:33 am

DrJ wrote:

jenp7 wrote:

I fully respect the scientific method, but it is not the end all, be all: if a product cannot fit within the parameters of scientific inquiry nor be measured by whatever scientific instruments we currently have available, I will not necessarily write it off. I think results speak for themselves, because at the end of the day, that is all any of us are looking for. Even if these results come about through a seemingly "placebo" effect, I think that is a testament to the true power of the mind- the product being just the vehicle.

Yes, I agree subjective experience is important too. But what do you think about pretend science? When they try to fool you by making up science that doesn't exist. Doesn't it bother you to be manipulated or lied to?

If the seller/creator truly believes in the product, they may not feel that they are manipulating or being untruthful to anyone. Or they could be and don't care...only they really know!

But at the end of the day all you can do is lay out the science...people can then make their own choices, as they are free to do.

Mon May 14, 2012 11:44 am

My testing started on individuals that I knew or worked for me in late 2007. The lab testing is done at an independent lab in Omaha. Private message me if you want to contact them. I am not sure what their policy is on disclosure but I will notify them of your intent to contact them regarding these tests. I have heard that other lab tests done on our water in other facilities were not conclusive so there is apparently a way to test it that I cannot speak to specifically....but they can.
What I have yet to find is a device sensitive enough to read the frequencies in the water. I was hoping to hear back on what device DrJ will be using for analysis...

Mon May 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Keliu wrote:

leeleedeedee wrote:

So, is Ageless Secret Gold made with this harmonized water? Or are we talking about two different things here,,, Osmosis and ASG?

They are the same thing - also known as structured water and energised water.

I just read the second page, sorry my last response did not reflect that. I will respond later on the many points made by DrJ. I have NOTHING to do with ASG and have never heard of them before last week. I do not follow Emoto or support him in any way but do believe that his work reflects real changes in the shape of water as a result of toxin/frequency effects. If he was exposed as a fraud (many have been reported to be frauds throughout history that were in fact pioneers that threatened powerful establishments), I would investigate it thoroughly before assuming that the facts were real. I will try to take some time to do that. I disagree that homeopathy has been proven wrong, see my answer above, but we are not using a homeopathic process.
I appreciate everyone's desire to follow "standard scientific methods" since that is all we have been using for the last century. That strategy favors the large pharma corporations and they are the very one's who created these methods in the first place. As I said, I will spend some more time on this over the coming weeks and respond further later this week when I have some time, but know this, our understanding of the human body is in its infancy and all of the testing we do today is on what we see, which is proven to change the very moment we look at it!

Mon May 14, 2012 1:10 pm

Keliu wrote:

If Dr. Johnson does return, I would really like to know how much input he actually has in the development of his products. The Osmosis products are sold here in Australia under two different doctor's names (unfortunately I have lost the links to those products). However, I know they are the same line because each product contains the exact same ingredients as the Osmosis products.

Obviously, it is common for identical products to be marketed under different brand names - but in the case of these three product lines, the doctors (whose name is on the product) all claim to have developed the line. Therefore, I would like to know whether Dr. Johnson merely buys the product and has it packaged under his name, or whether he is actually physically involved in the research and development of the products.

I have responded to this question before, not sure where on the forum. I have several patents pending on the products used in Osmosis. The philosophy is my creation as are most of the formulas. I do use some products developed by others. I private label Osmosis to certain accounts, I imagine that is what you are seeing. More to follow....

free skin care · Mon May 14, 2012 4:54 pm

Ben Johnson, MD wrote:

Keliu wrote:

leeleedeedee wrote:

So, is Ageless Secret Gold made with this harmonized water? Or are we talking about two different things here,,, Osmosis and ASG?

They are the same thing - also known as structured water and energised water.

I just read the second page, sorry my last response did not reflect that. I will respond later on the many points made by DrJ. I have NOTHING to do with ASG and have never heard of them before last week. I do not follow Emoto or support him in any way but do believe that his work reflects real changes in the shape of water as a result of toxin/frequency effects. If he was exposed as a fraud (many have been reported to be frauds throughout history that were in fact pioneers that threatened powerful establishments), I would investigate it thoroughly before assuming that the facts were real. I will try to take some time to do that. I disagree that homeopathy has been proven wrong, see my answer above, but we are not using a homeopathic process.
I appreciate everyone's desire to follow "standard scientific methods" since that is all we have been using for the last century. That strategy favors the large pharma corporations and they are the very one's who created these methods in the first place. As I said, I will spend some more time on this over the coming weeks and respond further later this week when I have some time, but know this, our understanding of the human body is in its infancy and all of the testing we do today is on what we see, which is proven to change the very moment we look at it!

Big pharma did not invent the scientific method. It was those rather obsessive dedicated entrepreneurial science guys back in the 17th century. They are the ones that took the arrows (think Copernicus, Galileo). It became the standard by default - there is really no other tried and true way to sort truth from fiction in science. It's not perfect, but its the only reliable thing we have going. To review: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Again, Dr Johnson scores points for showing up to the debate. People who are deliberately deceiving with junk science tend to avoid any form of public scrutiny or hard questions. Dr Johnson seems to believe in what he is doing. I'll grant him that. However, there is that invoking of standard Western medicine (or "big pharma") as a bogey man dedicated to frustrating real progress. That unfortunately lands him in some bad company. Maybe we can change his view. (I suppose I have been big pharma min the past, but certainly not there now).

free skin care · Mon May 14, 2012 5:02 pm

Ben Johnson, MD wrote:

I just read the second page, sorry my last response did not reflect that. I will respond later on the many points made by DrJ. I have NOTHING to do with ASG and have never heard of them before last week. I do not follow Emoto or support him in any way but do believe that his work reflects real changes in the shape of water as a result of toxin/frequency effects. If he was exposed as a fraud (many have been reported to be frauds throughout history that were in fact pioneers that threatened powerful establishments), I would investigate it thoroughly before assuming that the facts were real. I will try to take some time to do that. I disagree that homeopathy has been proven wrong, see my answer above, but we are not using a homeopathic process.
I appreciate everyone's desire to follow "standard scientific methods" since that is all we have been using for the last century. That strategy favors the large pharma corporations and they are the very one's who created these methods in the first place. As I said, I will spend some more time on this over the coming weeks and respond further later this week when I have some time, but know this, our understanding of the human body is in its infancy and all of the testing we do today is on what we see, which is proven to change the very moment we look at it!

We are all aware that you are not associated with ASG - ASG was brought into the discussion because it is also an energised/harmonised/structured water. It is not the individual products that are under question, but the principal behind them - the principal that the shape of water molecules can be changed. At this point in time, this has not been unequivocally proven - but I'm surprised that you are unaware of the controversy surrounding Dr. Emoto's work as it is widely regarded in the scientific community as flawed. To that end, I would like to hear your comments on the opinions of Dr. Stephen Lower whose website, Chem1) is mentioned above.

I'm interested in your statement that you have yet to find a device which is sensitive enough to measure your water and that testing by other labs has been inconclusive. That is not exactly re-assuring. Mr. Kaszyk uses a device to test the energy in his water - but according to one member here who is a quantum physicist, the machine is not specifically designed for that purpose and his results are totally misleading. (Sorry, I can't be more specific here, but this is not my field of expertise).

I would disagree with this statement of yours:

Quote:

I appreciate everyone's desire to follow "standard scientific methods" since that is all we have been using for the last century. That strategy favors the large pharma corporations and they are the very one's who created these methods in the first place.

Surely, some of the most wonderful scientific discoveries throughout history have been discovered by accident or by un-funded scientists/lay people working in their own facilities. Science is continually evolving, mainly due to the inquiring minds of our own human nature - not to any definitive rules and regulations set out by large corporations. When those discoveries are ratified and proven, then the scientific community as a whole and the large corporations will jump on the technology. IF one person could produce irrefutable evidence that water can be energised and was of therapeutic benefit, certainly the major corporations would embrace it - but we are not at that point yet.

free skin care · Wed May 16, 2012 8:49 pm

DrJ wrote:

They suggested "transfer it into the scepticism and debunking" forum." Why can't we have one of those??

Because then we wouldn't have anything to discuss on this forum!!!

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