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Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:51 am  |
| Not a good sign......for my bank account. |
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Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:55 pm |
I have been using the Merbe for about 3 months. I try to do 2 treatments a week. I pretty much use either the lifting or wrinkle program exclusively. The real reason I only use these programs is because I don't know what kind of product I should use with the other programs.
I looked into ordering some of the Squoom gels but price and having to order from Europe have stopped me. The Squoom gels do not have any preservatives in them so I can't really order in bulk to try to save money on shipping either.
I am also still very careful with the amount of time I spend during a session because of the Merbe using 1 MHz vs 3 MHz. I have to say I have not experienced any problems with the stronger setting. I wanted to mention this though because of previous discussion on EDS about this issue. I do think that there is more current research showing better results with the 1 MHz now but I don't have a link handy. So far the most time I have spent is two 4 minute sessions in a row but will be upping that soon.
I do think I have found some products that I can use for the other programs but don't want to mention what they are till I purchase and have a chance to use them.
So what kind of results have I seen?
An immediate reduction in under eye bags. Mine are fluid based not fat based. I have done some form of lymph drainage massage for almost 2 years, everyday. I was never able to get rid of these totally. When I did an around the eye socket and down the neck move with the Merbe they decreased in size. Within a few days they were totally gone. I still have hollows and my skin is still stretched out where the fluid was but that is getting better all the time. (not the hollows but the stretched skin part)
Decrease in fluid around my jawline. Between this and the Stop I am finally seeing some reduction in my jowls. Not facelift worthy but since nothing worked before I'll take what I can get.
Overall my skin looks fresher after a treatment. It just looks healthier.
So for me the Merbe has done a great job on lymph drainage. It has helped somewhat with lifting but I really think that is a very slow process. I do think it helps a lot with product penetration also and it is a lot easier then rolling with small needles.
It really helped me recover from my last DermaJet treatment a lot quicker then I think I would have without it. I used it on my face and neck and I could actually see the stagnate blood spots going away. That proved to me that it is doing something underneath the skin.
I have got to say that it is boring as all get out to use. You don't feel anything. Somebody on EDS said it is like rubbing the backside of a spoon on your face and that is true. Good thing is a session doesn't take long and doesn't hurt in the least. You are not red or bruised and you can go out right afterwards. It doesn't make your skin anymore sun sensitive unless maybe you are using a Vit A product with it.
So for me it is a keeper. Hopefully I will get even better results as I use more programs and new products with it. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:29 am |
Hi everyone!
I was surprised this weeks to get a couple of pms about Sqoom - so I popped in to see this thread!
Yes, I still love my Sqoom. I haven't been using it regularly due to the price of the gels (when I bought the Sqoom, I tried loads of different gels trying to find something cheaper, but none of them were the same quality), but funnily enough I've been back to regular treatments this past month, in prep for my 50th birthday in Nov - going to San Francisco, can't wait!
I never use any of my other gadgets any more, I've found Sqoom outshines them all, so they are all redundant. Keep meaning to eBay them but I'm too lazy. Think I've mentioned before - Tripollar Stop, Baby Quasar etc, none of which hold a candle.
I still *always* take Sqoom on holiday with me. (Why can't they bring out a hard travelling case? The silly thing switches itself on at the lightest touch of anything against it.) There is nothing like it when you've had a late night and your face is a bit puffy in the morning.
This thread just made me go look at the Sqoom website, which I haven't done for over a year. I was so excited to see all the new colours! And the M2! But, it seems they've removed some functionality? (I use the Nutrition setting every time, and the M2 no longer has that).
Also, on the FAQ, I saw this, which is something that keeps coming up:
| Quote: |
I have heard that devices with 1 MHz ultrasound frequency shouldn’t be used on the face, 3 MHz are better and won’t do any harm.
Concerning the ultrasound frequency, we are talking about an average of 1 MHz (1.000.000 vibrations per second). This frequency is adjusted to reach the promised deep layers of the skin (in our case: the dermis).This frequency is perfectly coordinated in its intensity so that there is no risk of endangering the skin on the face or anywhere else on the body – as long as the operating instructions are obeyed. The common recommendation of a 3 MHz frequency is rather confusing as this frequency is simply not sufficient to reach the necessary depth of the dermis.SQOOM concept has been developed against a medical background, and so it can provide reliable medical basics. |
ETA: I see they also have new gels and a water spray. I'm going to order the new hydration gel and spray to try them out - I'm nearly out of my current supply. When I bought my Sqoom, the Schick customer support advised me to spray Avene water on the gel to keep it moist - I guess they decided they could make more money making their own!  |
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:05 am |
Hi Bethany
I am just about to purchase fromwww.sqoom.de/onlineshop (the official shop).
I purchased from there before - I've looked around but no-one really sells any cheaper, I think they've done some 'price fixing'!
I'm getting the spray, booster, and another gel - comes to £175 + free postage.
Expensive, but I can stop using other serums and night creams...
ETA - no, I never tried other gels. I did look into it at the time (making it up myself) but then decided I'd probably make a hash of it. |
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:42 pm |
| Just a suggestion - but you could try using Rose Water as a spray instead of the expensive Avene. Rose Water is very beneficial to the skin - and you can buy the concentrate from a pharmacy and dilute it yourself, which makes it very inexpensive. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:01 am |
Rapunzell, there has been some newer research that showed that 1mhz was actually better.
Also, the key thing that makes the Merbe better is that it is BOTH galvanic and ultrasound. Watch the video I posted above and you will see why that is important.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=azXkE1g9jq4&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DazXkE1g9jq4
FYI that I used to have a 2mhz ultrasound only and sold it...it did not perform like this unit at all. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:19 pm |
| Rapunzell wrote: |
OK
But I find that these posts get too confusing. There doesn't seem to be one post on here to get 99% of the info. You have to jump around, try to find it and if you ask something slightly different. Start a new post.
Very disjointed.
But I guess that's the rule here! I get it!  |
It's the difference between a general discussion thread, and a specific product discussion thread. Unfortunately someone is going to view it as disjointed either way, lol. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:20 pm |
| Rapunzell wrote: |
OK
But I find that these posts get too confusing. There doesn't seem to be one post on here to get 99% of the info. You have to jump around, try to find it and if you ask something slightly different. Start a new post.
Very disjointed.
But I guess that's the rule here! I get it! |
Hi Rapunzell, I think by either starting a new post or finding a thread about the topic that has already been started, helps keep all the information about that one particular gadget/product all in one place. Otherwise people will not be able to find a review or information about something without going through 20 or 100 pages of information they have no interest in. It is kind of what you mention you what in your post above. That way if someone googles JeNu review your post will come up and they can find the information. Otherwise a person doesn't know to google Squoom and hope some information about the JeNu comes up. Do you see the point in this? |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:33 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
(I actually did read the thread, but my poor brain is having a hard time keeping up... if only there was a device to raise one's IQ  ) |
Sometimes I wonder if all the electrical current zapping into my brain from all the gadgets I use isn't equal to a frontal lobotomy!!  |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:20 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
Bethany, does your Merbe unit have equivalent settings for these functions? And has a consensus been reached regarding whether or not regular HA will work well with these, or is that still up in the air?
(I actually did read the thread, but my poor brain is having a hard time keeping up... if only there was a device to raise one's IQ ) |
Yes it does. Fyola = Sqoom M1 = Merbe (with maybe the exception of a titanium transducer and a diff battery).
Regular HA does not penetrate as deeply as LMW or ULMW HA (as used by Sqoom). Sqoom advertises that their gel penetrates more deeply at the dermis level and fills gaps between cells to minimize wrinkles. I believe we can create similar gels, but to Kassy's point via PM do we want HA (which attracts 1,000 times it's weight in water) to pull moisture internally. Something to think about.
But at this point I am thinking that pulling moisture internally is better than pulling from the skin surface since the goal is to replace lost HA in our aging skin that was previously there anyway? |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:03 pm |
I found this FAQ for Squoom today. It has some information about gel usage I hadn't seen before.
They claim a 50 ml gel will last 25-30 treatments. I don't know but that seems like a long time to me. Of course this is after you have been using it for awhile.
It also talks about the 1 MHz vs 3 MHz and some other things.
Bethany, it mentions a 20 power program to do if you are not seeing results. Do you know what this is?
The price is fairly high for the device and gels. The gels need to be purchased on a regular basis, too.
One gel (50 ml) if sufficient for approximately 25-30 treatments. When you decide to treat once a week the gel will last for up to five months. If you want to achieve faster results and decide to treat more often in the early stages of use in order to fill up the hyaluronic acid reserves in the dermis more quickly then the gels will last approximately one month.Your skin will need the most gel in the first few weeks of use and you will then notice from week to week that your skin absorbs less gel.With a normal and consistent treatment the gel will last about 2 months.
I have heard that devices with 1 MHz ultrasound frequency shouldn’t be used on the face, 3 MHz are better and won’t do any harm.
Concerning the ultrasound frequency, we are talking about an average of 1 MHz (1.000.000 vibrations per second). This frequency is adjusted to reach the promised deep layers of the skin (in our case: the dermis).This frequency is perfectly coordinated in its intensity so that there is no risk of endangering the skin on the face or anywhere else on the body – as long as the operating instructions are obeyed. The common recommendation of a 3 MHz frequency is rather confusing as this frequency is simply not sufficient to reach the necessary depth of the dermis.SQOOM concept has been developed against a medical background, and so it can provide reliable medical basics.
I have been treating myself for some time and do not see any improvement.
If you are sure you have been carrying out the treatment correctly and you do not have sensitive skin, we suggest you use a ”power programme“ (this is different from the treatments outlined in the manual which are always based on the treatment of sensitive skin). If you do not have a sensitive skin you can treat more intensively.Smoking, not enough sleep, excess alcohol, etc. can increase this effect.
http://www.sqoom.com/en/meta/faq/ |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:06 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
I will be perfectly honest here: one of my biggest fears with US devices is that with regular use, they might cause facial fat atrophy. This fear is probably unwarranted, I admit that, but I can't seem to stop worrying about it anyway.
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I purchased my Sqoom in 2011 - I have had no facial fat loss whatsover. Sadly. |
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:16 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
| The idea of adding HA to the inner layers of the skin is intriguing, though, and I do think I would benefit from that quite a bit. So I'll be paying close attention to this thread, and everyone's results. Fingers crossed that Merbe/Sqoom users find (or learn how to DIY) high-quality but cost effective gels, and see prolonged and sustainable benefits. |
The moisure-plumping this device + gel gives is nothing short of amazing.
Like getting flabby when you give up on gym and diet for a while, so your skin will regress if you stop pampering (I'm always amazed at people looking for that thing that will make them look good permanently with no upkeep - no such thing, we are all dying, slowly). I - being a lazy cow - gave up on Sqooming my chest; slowly, my ugly V wrinkles came back, but I was so busy and besides, the weather was so bad I didn't care.
But now, in prep for my holiday, I've been Sqooming there again. I swear, all it takes is 3 days of concentrated action (8 minutes N in the morning and 8 minutes N again in the evening) to completely (and I mean *completely*) smooth that area.
BTW - I did mention this before - I tried to use the Environ moisturising gel and colustrum gel with the Sqoom, and actually got good results. However, I couldn't bear the stickiness of those products, so I went back to the Sqoom gel, but someone else may want to try those. |
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:29 pm |
Rapunzell - I sent you some non-Sqoom related PM's.
Regarding the HA you mentioned above, it is not LMW as is used in the Sqoom gels. The devil is in the details with this kind of thing! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:25 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
| The only thing holding me back at this point is the cost of the Sqoom gels, and the difficulty of finding an equivalent LMW HA gel. |
What about this?
100% PURE Hyaluronic Acid Serum - Nature's Moisturizer - Low Malecular Weight -Organically Preserved - No Toxic Chemicals - by High Altitude Organics - 2 fl oz 60 ml
http://www.amazon.com/100-PURE-Hyaluronic-Acid-Serum/dp/B005B6OIG0/ref=aag_m_pw_dp?ie=UTF8&m=A1FN3PMI7TWAR8 |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:13 pm |
Thanks Keliu! This one looks similar to the Ultra LMW HA from Lotioncrafter.
This is in the description: Our Hyaluronic Acid is of low molecular weight (3000 to 8000 Daltons in size). I think this one is actually TOO low, as this study seems to suggest. (Thanks to CookieD for finding that info)
In the study, the conventional higher MW and (much) lower MW HA didn't give optimal results; it was the 50k Daltons MW that showed a benefit. Thus far, it seems like the various MWs available to consumers are either too high or too low to be a good option with the Sqoom
But Karenlee said she had good results with some Environ gels, and while they're still on the pricey side, they might be doable. I'm wondering if one could still get good results by mixing, say, an Environ gel with BurnOut's "Skin Fix" aloe gel. The ingredients for the BurnOut product look similar to the ingredients in the Fyola gel, so maybe the SKin Fix can be used to stretch the pricier products?
And anyway, this review has me tempted to try the SLMW from Lotioncrafter (just not with the Sqoom or Merbe):
| Amazon poster wrote: |
| [...] My lips get extremely chapped and dry and I have tried numerous organic lip balms and lip scrubs and nothing seemed to work. One day, my lips were so chapped and peeling they were unbearable. Something told me to put a dab of the seum on my lips and I did. My lips were soft and supple instantly (no kidding)!!!! The dry skin completely disappeared. [...] |
ETA: I don't know why the Skin Fix link isn't working, but here are the ingredients (the product is still on the BurnOut website, but you have to navigate to it manually):
Skin Fix Ingredients: Purified Water,
Organic Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice*,
Carboxymethyl Cellulose,
Ascorbyl Palmitate,
Organic Chamomile Extract*,
Organic Calendula Extract*,
Organic White Tea Extract*,
Cucumber Extract, Longevicell,
Mixed Tocopherol,
Phytoplankton,
Ascorbic Acid,
Ethylhexylglycerin.
Fyola gel ingredients: Water (Aqua),
Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice (Aloe Vera)
Laminaria Digitata (Seaweed)
Carbomer, Matricaria Recutita (Chamomile Flowers)
Organic Urtica Dioica (Nettle Leaf)
Sambucus Nigra (Elder Flower)
Citrus Aurantium (Orange Peel)
Foeniculum Vulgare (Fennel)
Citrus Paradisi (Grapefruit Pink)
Rosa Mosqueta (Rose Hip Seed Oil)
Panthenol (Vitamin B5)
Allantoin, Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E)
Sodium Salt Glycine (naturally-derived amino acid). |
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302 (Part one): http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 |
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Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:11 pm |
| I have found out the ingredient lists for the "Sqoom" products.. I'm not sure if you already have them, so let me know before I wear my fingers to the nub typing. |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:04 pm |
As promised, and thanks 'Lotus', that vino hit the spot...
Xcential Hya/Gel Ingredients:
Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice
Alcohol
Glycerin
Sodium Hyaluronate (doesn't specify molecular wgt.)
Xylitylglucoside
Anhydroxylitol
Lepidium Sativum Sprout Extract
Lecithin
Inula Viscosa Extract
Xylitol
Xanthan Gum
Acrylates C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer
For the most part, looks like sugar substitutes, humectants, and a Sweedish plant extract or two, disguised as an AOX.
Sqoom DeSpot Ingredients:
Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice
Alcohol
Glycerin
Lepidium Sativum Sprout Extract
Sodium Hyaluronate
Soy Isoflavone
Lecithin
Papain
Calcium Pantotenate
Urea
Magnesium Lactate
Potassium Lactate
Serine
Proline
Alanine
Magnesium Chloride
Xanthan Gum,
Sodium Acrylates C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer
Fruit enzymes + humectants for the most part.
Cleanser Gel Ingredients:
Aloe Vera Leaf Juice
Alcohol
Glycerin
Panthenol
Chamomilla Recutita Extract ( why not just chamomile extract?)
Xanthan Gum
Sodium Acrylates C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer
Maltodextrin
Silica
Hope that helps! Be sure to give me a shout out, when you want to make something really good to feed your skin  |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:10 pm |
FYI that I have not used the Merbe since Sunday, and the lift in my marionette lines did hold. However, when I used it tonight I did not see any incremental lift.
I saw some significant lift at the beginning (more so than with just the microcurrent), but this is definitely not something that will eliminate them if you are at bloodhound status. It is a minor (but still welcome) change at best.
However, I am still hoping for some longer term improvement with forehead lines over time. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:14 am |
| bethany wrote: |
I am wondering if the Sqoom (and the actives) actually assists with any collagen/elastin generation, or if the temporary HA plumping is really all that happens. |
Don't know whether this study has been linked to before - it recommends using acids such as glycolic or salicylic in adjunct to the ultrasound:
http://www.shahfacialplastics.com/effects-low-frequency.html
| Quote: |
| Therapeutic ultrasound frequency ranges from 1-3 MHz. At 1 MHz, ultrasound waves may extend down beyond 2 cm reaching the musculoskeletal soft tissues. At the higher frequency, 3 MHz range, ultrasound energy is subject to much more friction and is attenuated by dermal and subcutaneous collagen therefore penetrating less than 2 cm.1 Ultrasound generated heat has been shown to increase collagen tissue extensibility, alter blood flow, and increase enzymatic activity.1 Many of the benefits of ultrasound energy may also be attributed to its non-thermal mechanisms. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:58 pm |
If I can find the time in the w/end I will post my latest B-A pics of my chest. Amazing what can happen in a week.
Bethany I'm loving the lips routine you posted. Have you tried it? The Massage which gives an ugly red face after makes my lips beautifully vivid, and the Nutrition plumps them out. I love the effect! |
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Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:48 pm |
I managed to talk him down to $99 for mine. It came with gel, carry bag, etc. I still haven't tried to see how long it holds a charge for, as I always pop it back in its cradle. I keep meaning to, as its something I would like to take on longer trips. I decided to take the mini MC on the 6 day trip I just went on, and I am sorry to say it just didn't cut it, especially as I needed to look my best. I missed the fyola. I use it every other day or so, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on what I feel my skin needs. But if I am looking like I need a pick me up, a quick session will do it for me. Sometimes I am sure I have spent at least 32 mins at a time over the face/neck without any problems. As I clear the lymph in my neck upper chest first (after cleansing if I am doing it), I find that takes at least 8 mins, and I will also cover the neck area again on the different modes.
Typically after cleansing, which I don't always do, but find it does result in an amazingly clear and tiny-pored complexion (and big pores have been my problem forever), I always do a session on massage, followed by lifting, or nutrition, and if I have time and depending on what product I am using, I will use the wrinkle or even whitening program over my cheekbones/forehead.
Products I love to use with it include home-made serums based on niacinimide, coffebean extract, ECGC, ginger and genistein, and a bunch of other things I can't remember but can dig up if asked. I also love a once fortnightly treatment with dermalogica multivitamin face mask, which becomes super powerful with the U/S (sprayed with water or rose water). Now that I have read the article Keliu posted, it makes a lot of sense given it contains glycolic, salyclic and retinols plus C and other goodies. Anything I use it with gets supercharged into the skin. I have had to be particularly careful not to sensitize my skin and be aware of good barrier health practices. Over stripping the skin and then using the U/S will very quickly give you an idea of how well it works, even if it does feel like it isn't doing anything to some people - not me - I can tell the differences between the different programs, and even sense the depth of treatment and certain frequency pulsing. But I have sensitive skin.
Anyway, I hope more people begin to feel the love for ultrasound. It will not give you a facelift, but I believe it can certainly improve skin texture and tone, reduce wrinkling, and also promote some tightening of lax skin, by flushing out stagnant waste and bringing in plenty of new nutrition. I was inspired by Karenlee and other info I had read, and believe others will find plenty to like about these devices, especially the better quality ones. I also think that unlike some other products, it is not fraught with possibilities of ugly stages, or not being quite clear how to use it. Even slowly circling the treatment head over the area you want to treat will achieve what you need. |
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