Another Gadget, TriPollar STOP
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free skin care · Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:20 pm

Kassy as you have stated before, pictures speak louder than words. I just wish we had some answers. Sad

I felt the same way with my delima with copper peptides Crying or Very sad

when others had glowing results and my under eye area looked damaged for life. Well, I am getting that back under control and I feel like you will correct this as well. I think you are wise to get back to what you know has worked for you and let your skin bounce back. Listening to our body is always best. Pray

Here's to expecting a bounce back and new pictures.

Toby

free skin care · Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:26 pm

Thanks Toby!

Your words are very encouraging, and I will certainly heed that good advice..

...K

ETA: I'm glad that page flipped, so I don't have to see those pictures ... Laughing

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:46 am

Kassy, just want to send you some cyber solidarity. Like so many others on EDS, I am grateful to you for your knowledge, honesty and willingness to share with others. I am sorry that you have had such a damaging experience with this gadget (apart from the more obvious physical damage, I can imagine it has been emotionally debilitating too) - but, yet again, thank you for your honesty in sharing your results. In spite of what you are going through, your posts throughout this episode are consistently fair-minded and non-emotional.

Hugs to you and good luck as you set out to undo the damage; you seem a lady with both the wherewithal and knowledge to be able to do so.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:08 am

KASSY_A: What I see in your before and after pictures is exactly what I saw in myself on my 60th birthday. I went to bed not bad at 59 and woke up with no jawline, more wrinkles and worse sagging on my actual 60th birthday. I am being very truthful - no sarcasm, no exaggeration. Any chance your 60th is coming up soon? My body also collapsed and I was diagnosed with RA - I have been taking the supplements "Genacol" (Collagen)for approximately 30 days and 3,000 mg of Wild Salmon and Fish Oil daily - not only have they helped with the "creaking" sound of my bones - they have helped my face - my wrinkles are softening - my lips have filled out. I am also 9 months into AALS. Hang in there "DOC"

Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:13 am

Just wanted to add my support with regard to your awful experience with this tool. I shuddered when I saw the pictures. If I hadn't already bought one I doubt if I would have taken the gamble.What it does demonstrate is that there is a possibility of real damage to one's face if you are unlucky enough to respond in a negative way. Frankly it beggars belief that the company suggests you should carry on with the "treatments" when it is clear to anyone looking at your pictures that something is horribly wrong. And it adds insult to injury to ask if you have been using the 2 preparations!! Personally, I don't like the after cream as it gives my skin a slightly chalky look. Nor do I find it very nourishing.
anyway, going back to your pics, it really looks as if the support structure of the skin on your lower face and neck has been severely compromised and the question is, as others have said, what has caused this to happen?

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:27 am

Kassy_A, Let me add another sincere thank you for sharing your pictures. It's very generous of you to do that. Wish I could give you something other than my support. Please try not to let it get you down too much. I know it's hard though.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:17 am

I just wanted to let everyone know that I discussed the Stop again with my husband. (the electrical engineer)

I described what happened to Kassy & also that others have posted adverse results such as increased wrinkling & dryness.(and yet others no results and some good results)

He said it could be one of several scenarios:
(including some which we have not thought of - hence his original caution - although based on the actual specs given by Dr Azer it should at least not be detrimental to the tissue)

1. Heating is too much for more fragile skin (or perhaps a skin with some genetic predisposition causing it to be suseptible to damage from RF heating) or aged skin that is thinner. We never really got a clear answer from the Dr re how they control for depth of penetration and from what I understand there are several levels of heat.(we wondered about this as I indicated in my 2/1/09 post) I remember sometime back in this very long thread that someone posted that they had a burning sensation & when they asked Halina about this were told that the company says this is ok. YIKES!!!

2. Issues arising from possibility that those using the Stop are inadvertently being exposed to other frequencies other than what is specified in the specs we received. I do not really understand this except to say that he says this is quite possible if the device is poorly constructed and this is not specifically controlled for.

3. If there is actually modulation as well this could also account for negative effects. (and yes we were told that there is no modulation)

I want to state clearly that we are NOT bashing the company in any way, but there appear to still be some unanswered ?'s. Since they are not regulated in anyway in the USA (and I know a number of you using this are in the US) and I believe still not currently approved for sale here I think extreme caution is warranted even for those of you who have gotten good results thus far.

I also hope Ultragen is reading this e-mail & will approve an independent test of this device (by certified engineer/company qualified to do so) proving that it does meet all of its specs & that there is no modulation. (and no unintended other frequency exposure)

Also further explanation as to how the device controls for overheating based on thickness/ thinness of different skins is also paramount. (it appears that a simple shutoff may not be adequate in all cases)

Some additional independent clinical studies also appear to warranted.

Ok I will now step off my soapbox - I just think that if a company is going to sell a device like this they need to have the independent testing & independent clinical studies to back it up & also offer a decent money-back guarantee !!!

So needless to say I have decided I will not purchase this item or use it even if given to me! I would not risk damage to my skin & will go back to my dermarolling from which I have had good results. I want to thank those who have honestly reported their results (good/bad/none)
and especially Kassy for her bravery in posting photos as evidence that this device is likely not harmless at least for some.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:23 pm

stovetop wrote:

KASSY_A: What I see in your before and after pictures is exactly what I saw in myself on my 60th birthday. I went to bed not bad at 59 and woke up with no jawline, more wrinkles and worse sagging on my actual 60th birthday. I am being very truthful - no sarcasm, no exaggeration. Any chance your 60th is coming up soon? Hang in there "DOC"

I was thinking the same thing in my last post, when I mentioned "maybe being 59 has just caught up with me all at once.. Shock

) But I honestly don't think that's the case.. I would go so far as to say, my skin was in the best shape of it's life on my 59th birthday in January.. It was firm, thick, tight, clear, even toned + with barely a pore visible from a foot away. Even my dreaded bags were 80% smaller!

I had a tremendous amount of improvements over the last year and a half since finding all of you and this forum.. I never would have thought it possible to erase some of the life long effects I was seeing, but miraculously things really turned around... The fact is, I respond 100% to LED's, and not so much with other devices. Hopefully the next few months of getting back to that and whatever I can apply topically, will rectify at least some of this.. We'll see ... Anxious

And if it doesn't, I won't lose any sleep over it, because I've had a good run up till now ... Laughing

To all of you, I would just like to thank you for your help, support + the very nice things you have said, both here and through PM's and emails.

I really am happy to share the good, the bad + the down right ugly with all of you, and will continue to do that through this new journey.

I apologize for taking so much of everyone's time here with this, but I couldn't take a chance that this could happen to even one of you.. Now at least, you can make a more informed decision, after seeing all sides of the STOP story.

With all this said and out in the open, maybe now would be a good time to move on to the gals having a nice experience with STOP.. Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:30 pm

Oh Kathy,
First off, sending you a big hug. In your place, I would be frustrated, angry and probably beating myself up a bit for being gullible - so
I'll say this:

You STILL look better than 90% of the 59 year olds out there and I suspect that when you are happy and relaxed, instead of thinking about the damage from the stop, but smiling about the fact that you can even worry about this kind of thing, it's closer to 95%...
Wink

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:06 pm

Kassy_A, I want to thank you for all your posts and the pictures. I commend you for doing that. I just hope that anyone thinking about buying the STOP reads every page of this topic before doing so.

My last post was a bit ago and I said I was done. Well, I gave it some thought and so continued on. I just did my 16th treatment yesterday. I am not seeing any improvement whatsoever but I am seeing the jowl area still sagging. After I saw your pictures this morning I stuffed this piece of cr*p back in the box never to open it up again.

I did not go into this blind. I knew it was an expensive gadget with no trial period for getting a refund. I do hope that the STOP does not get approval in the USA.

In regards to others seeing results, I am happy for you. But there is something telling me, after reading thru some of the reviews again from those seeing and not seeing results, that the improvements IMO are not from the STOP. I know those that are happy with the STOP will disagree with me but this is my opinion.

I am just glad that I only did the treatments on my face and not on my neck. This is not like me as I usually jump into things 100%.

Kassy, I know if anyone can turn this experience around it will be you.

Next on my agenda is "Ageless" and a box of chocolates.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:19 pm

Frodo wrote:

... In regards to others seeing results, I am happy for you. But there is something telling me, after reading thru some of the reviews again from those seeing and not seeing results, that the improvements IMO are not from the STOP. I know those that are happy with the STOP will disagree with me but this is my opinion....

LOL I do disagree with you on this one. It is quite obvious to me that the results came from Stop, I did not do anything new and in my case results came very fast. The same happened when I had RF treatment with Accent like device on my thighs, so there is no doubt in my mind about it. I love my ProLights, and have been dedicated to facial exercises for a while, but I most definitely had good results with Stop RF, and I treated both face and neck.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:22 pm

ok333 wrote:

Oh Kathy,
First off, sending you a big hug. In your place, I would be frustrated, angry and probably beating myself up a bit for being gullible - so
I'll say this:

You STILL look better than 90% of the 59 year olds out there and I suspect that when you are happy and relaxed, instead of thinking about the damage from the stop, but smiling about the fact that you can even worry about this kind of thing, it's closer to 95%...
Wink

And the other 5% spent $20,000 in a plastic surgeons office. Laughing

Hang in Kassy! Hugs.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:47 pm

Kassy I've just seen these pics, as always I'm way late here in Oz.
Thank you so much for sharing, and I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I can tell you right now that I will NOT be using the STOP again. I'm only glad I'd only done 3 treatments on my thighs with it before hearing about your dreadful response. It's just not worth the risk IMO.
I have no doubt you'll be able to turn these results around with the commitment you've put into your skin before. Good luck with it and please keep us posted on your progression.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:47 pm

Can I just jump in here as the voice of reason? And please don't shoot the messenger! But really, don't forget that the STOP is being sold in the UK in two very reputable stores, Selfridges and Harvey Nichols. I'm sure that these stores would not be selling something that was shonky and would not be happy if they were getting returns from unsatisfied customers. It is also being marketed in France. I would imagine that both the UK and France would have adequate laws that protect the safety of customers in regard to these devices. Also, RF treatments are being given in spas all over the world. I have searched the web but can't find any negative feedback on either the STOP or RF treatments. I would also point out that Jasminerosey had a similar experience with the Anti Aging Lightstim and posted that it wrecked her skin.

Now, I have a suggestion - would it be possible for Cabrita's husband to get a hold of a STOP and run some tests on it. If he would be willing to do this, perhaps Kassy could send him her rejected STOP. Wouldn't it be great to get some feedback on the device from an expert's viewpoint.

As for my experience with the STOP - I am NOT seeing any improvement at all in sagging after 14 treatments. But I don't believe that I have ever seen any MEASURABLE CONCRETE improvement in my skin from using any gadget - not even the AALS. Yes, I tell myself they're all working wonders but honestly, I totally relate to Stovetop's post in that aging is taking its toll on me. (My "stay positive" rant a few pages back is quickly dissipating!)

Bethany - when are you going to have another skin analysis done? It will be very interesting to see if there is a measurable improvement in your skin.

Anyway, I don't think that there should be this massive knee-jerk reaction against the STOP.

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:37 am

Keliu wrote:

Bethany - when are you going to have another skin analysis done? It will be very interesting to see if there is a measurable improvement in your skin.

I would need to wait until May or later for any results to really show up.

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:00 pm

Keliu wrote:

...I would also point out that Jasminerosey had a similar experience with the Anti Aging Lightstim and posted that it wrecked her skin.

Keliu, I know you were posting this to try to bring some more balanced assessment of STOP....since so many have had positive experiences with AALS...and mine was singularly so different and debilitating to my skin.

I've been wanting to post about my experiences with AALS because it really influenced me not to try STOP..until there was at least a year's worth of EDS..and other consumer.. feedback about the product.

And although there are some differences..the first being that when I spoke to Steve at Lightstim about the debilitating effect of the AALS on my face he suggested that I stop using the device immediately and return it for full refund...(unlike the STOP folks who are recommending that Kassy continue to use their device even though the effects are debilitating)

the second being that the debilitation from AALS although frustrating to me, wasn't as difficult, IMO, as what Kassy is currently experiencing.

But ... IMO the similarity to me between the two experiences are that what happened to me with the AALS was not 'supposed' to happen with a led unit..and yet it did..(so I was wary about the claims from the STOP folks that the heat created by this device was not 'supposed' to penetrate beneath the dermal layer of the skin.)..and what happened to Kassy with the STOP was not 'supposed' to happen..but it did.

And it appears to me,from reading the response from the STOP folks to Kassy , that they are insinuating that indeed the heat from the STOP device might have penetrated beneath the dermal layer when they said that using their accompanying gels is the only way to assure that this debilitating deeper penetration of heat doesn't happen (this doesn't seem to me to resonate with what they said originally about the STOP not being able to penetrate deeper than the dermal layer..and not that it could of their gel wasn't used with the device!)

I need to finish this post later as I have another commitment at the moment.

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:40 pm

I have had really good results with the STOP, am using it once a week now for maintenance.

For now I will keep using it. I also use pro-light, dermawand, nuface, and well- box. (a few more other gadgets as well)
Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:40 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

(Colleen): I spoke with our clinical department and other than with any technology there are a certain percentage of non-responders and claims of aggravation. But in your case they do not see any explanation for aggravation. Due to the fact that you did see some positive response in the forehead area, she believes that you might be a slow responder to the technology and would need more time to see the full results.

I notice that their clinical department said "they do not see any explanation for aggravation". Then went on to say "you might be a slow responder".

Those are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT issues, and they completely ignore the most crucial one - why IS there skin aggravation, and why on earth should she continue if they 1] don't know what caused it or why, and 2] can't guarantee that it will get better (and for that matter, can't even promise that it won't become worse)??

I agree Kassy, their answer was completely unsatisfactory.

They will be their own ruination if they don't start offering a generous return policy.

I'm so sorry this didn't work for you, Kassy, I was so hoping you and Bethany would have great results, since my skin has a lot of similarities to both of yours. But I have accepted that for now, the STOP is not for me. Thankyou for sharing your results, and your pictures! (Ditto for everyone sharing results, positive and negative!)

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:10 pm

lipglossdoll wrote:

I have had really good results with the STOP, am using it once a week now for maintenance.

Isn't maintenance recommended to be every 2-4 weeks?

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:44 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

I apologize for taking so much of everyone's time here with this, but I couldn't take a chance that this could happen to even one of you.. Now at least, you can make a more informed decision, after seeing all sides of the STOP story.

No no. Thanks for YOUR time Kassy. It is awesome of you to have shared all of this with us.

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:07 pm

jasminerosey wrote:

Keliu wrote:

...I would also point out that Jasminerosey had a similar experience with the Anti Aging Lightstim and posted that it wrecked her skin.

Keliu, I know you were posting this to try to bring some more balanced assessment of STOP....since so many have had positive experiences with AALS...and mine was singularly so different and debilitating to my skin.

That was purely my intention - I didn't mean in any way to question either yours or Kassy's opinions.

I've been a member here now for some time, and it's been my experience that (with whatever the product, method or gadget) posters either experience fantastic results or have complete disasters. I seem to waddle through the middle of it all completely immune and basically experiencing nothing! But it is important to read everything and have a balanced opinion - and that is why it is important to hear about the bad experiences too.

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:58 pm

I was very seriously considering ordering the Stop device but now I just don't know??

It would be useful to know how many members had
positive results
negative results
no results

vs the number of treatments

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:54 pm

Keliu, I always, very much, appreciate your balanced prospectives...

and am just using your post which mentions my difficult experience with AALS as a 'jump off' point to say what I've been hesitant to say about the response Kassy got from the STOP folks..

(and imo this is so important..cause it seems to me to be 'owning' that their device CAN penetrate deeper than the dermal layer..where damage can occur..I'm assuming to the fat tissue)

Quote:
The STOP™ Preparation Gel is uniquely formulated to prepare your skin for the transference of TriPollar™ RF energy and ensures that it reaches the correct depth (down to the dermal layer only, no farther). By not using STOP™ Preparation Gel or by using any substitute material can impede treatment effectiveness and safety

So it seems to me they are saying that if you don't use their gel their device can penetrate deeper than the dermal tissue..and cause damage..

well..I have to say that I find it difficult to believe that they have created a gel (and the only one!) that can substantially guarantee that the TriPollar RF frequency won't penetrate deeper than the dermal layer of the skin and cause damage...

and while I'm sure this doesn't effect everyone negatively..and may well be beneficial to some..it does seem to give reasonable cause for deep deep consideration..

especially because it is my understanding that in previous communications the STOP folks have indicated that their device does not penetrate deeper than the dermal layer.

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:31 pm

I'm realizing that because i used Keliu's name at the top of both of my recent posts..it must have seemed that the posts were 'directed' to her..(I'm so sorry, Keliu!)

but actually that wasn't my intent at all..just to appreciate and acknowledge Keliu's post..

and to go on and address 'everyone'..and say what I've been meaning to say for a while...about my concern about the STOP technology...despite what the STOP folks originally indicated about their product's safety...

(again, this is not to deny that some people respond well to it..just to note that there are potentially damaging effects..and the decision to use it needs to weighed accordingly...and not entered into naively)

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:20 pm

Just popping in with a thought or six;

1. I only used the gel and cream that came with the device for all 15 treatments.. Just want to clarify that.

2. If the device is dependant on that specific gel to be the only protection to keep the heat from reaching too deeply into the dermis, that would be a very dangerous thing in my humble opinion. (The ingredients listed are nothing magical, so perhaps it isn't full disclosure.)

3. From what I recall of this thread 2 had great results, 1 had good results, 1 had disastrous results (me), a couple noticed dry, dehydrated skin with a couple more wrinkles, and the remainder haven't had any changes good or bad. (That's my recollection anyhoo.)

I would really suggest that those of you who are interested in buying the STOP, get in touch with the manufacturer in droves, and insist that the only way you will purchase, is if a decent satisfaction guarantee is put in place.

For me it was $570. in the crapper, and nothing but damage to show for it... It would have softened the blow a bit, if I could have returned it for a refund. It was a good lesson learned though, and I will never again by a product from a company that doesn't have faith enough, to stand behind said product with a fair return policy.. Then to add insult to injury, it was insinuated in an email from Halina, that it must have been my fault, and I shouldn't be saying all this in the forum...*It's detrimental to her business afterall*

Well they are all reading this forum, so hopefully someone will change a few things for the better for you guys..

Also keep in mind that I am to date a minority of "1" (on this forum), but it might do wonders for many others out there.. Wink

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