Another Gadget, TriPollar STOP
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free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:50 am

PhilipWB wrote:

I haven't seen much publicity, reviewing STOP, so not much to report.

So the STOP hasn't actually taken the UK by storm then!

Philip, how exactly are you integrating your LED and STOP treatments? Together on the same day or one day after the other? And for how long have you been using the STOP?

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:05 am

41yearsyoung wrote:

I cannot get past one person constantly trying to grab attention to herself,

I am fairly new to EDS but had been lurking for awhile before I registered. Pardon me if a consider this sentence out of line. I know people want to hear a new gadget is the fountain of youth, truth is: change takes discipline, initiative, and courage to experiment.

IMExperience at EDS, Kassy has forwarded objective opinion of her experience (and we all know each of us have particular variables in our personal journey) and provided many DIY formulas (of which I use her Vit C faithfully).

I am thankful for all the great posters who forward, quite freely, their opinions and, on many, MANY occasions, their expertise. Smile

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:10 am

denham wrote:

very very tentative maybe for me. i must say i've been quite worried about adverse effects since hearing/ seeing kassy's reports. i have seen some improvement recently but i am quite inclined to attribute it to ageless (which i'd started at about the same time) entirely. on the otehr hand - i did see what looked like worsening of the neck skin (might be parnoia) with stop use. in any case, having used it about 2 x week since late january i will now only use it occasionally if at all and not on the neck.
i am refraining from final judgment for teh moment, but as of now i am neither too impressed with the gadget's performance, nor convinced of its safety.
HTH

Thanks for the update denham, I'm going to switch you to my "no significant results" category, then. This puts both the "pleased" and "no significant results" categories at 9 users each. (The software inserted the little sunglasses guy in place of my (number eight)in the last message; don't know why...)

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:36 am

bethany wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

bethany wrote:

I personally think that when adding something new, you want to keep everything else consistent in your routine as much as possible....that includes tools and topicals. Otherwise, you can't really know what caused the change.

So you believe Kassy should have continued using the tools/topicals she was already using while testing the STOP? Do you think that the stopping of those caused some of the skin issues?

ETA: I have not been receiving notifications on watched topics, either.

That's totally Kassy's call on how she chooses to do things. But we do know that the LED has worked wonders for her...so what happens when she stops using it for a couple of months? The results aren't permanent....thus the need to keep using it.

I just don't know if you can say that the STOP was exclusively responsible for 100% of her skin decline. But I think we can say that it didn't work immediate miracles in her case...what will be interesting is how her skin looks in 4-6 months after she (hopefully) reverses the damage with the AALS. If the collagen levels look nice and plump, how will you know that it was not caused by collagen development kickstarted by the STOP? My only point is that you just really don't know.

That's also why I don't have a definite opinion on STOP yet...I can stay that the immediate tightening was very minimal (but still there to some degree) in my case. And while the STOP site shows wrinkle improvement in some people in 6 weeks, I am NOT one of the lucky ones. Sad

But I am giving it 4-5 months for collagen development before I say thumbs up or thumbs down.

However, I did use the dermaroller at the beginning of November...any results I see now could feasibly be from that roll! Shock

Once again, unless you have virgin skin, you just really don't know.

The company should have had most of these issued worked out. Kassy was a gunea (sp) pig and she has suffered for it (so sorry Kassy). Once again, they need to improve their return policy. I'm going to put that in big print for visitors checking out the STOP:

THE MAKERS OF STOP MUST IMPROVE THEIR RETURN POLICY AS THEY HAVE NOT TESTED IT PROPERLY AND IT IS CAUSING TERRIBLE PROBLEMS FOR SOME USERS

Sorry to use this post as an advertisement, Bethany.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:28 am

Keliu wrote:

Philip, given that you reside in the UK perhaps you could let us know what kind of feedback the STOP has been receiving over there - any goss??

I read about it in the UK's Daily Mail newspaper around the time of my initial post; Marie Helvin appears in their advertising.

A volunteer tried it and posted her results for the article; I remember they were positive. Sadly I can't seem to find any trace of it online! Sad

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:06 am

I wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion that this device hasn't been tested properly.

Even products and devices that are tested properly still do not work for everyone, and sometimes, for one reason or another, cause the appearance to worsen instead of improve.

I agree that their customer service and return policy needs an overhaul, but I think that point has been driven home quite effectively by now.

InkyProse wrote:

THE MAKERS OF STOP MUST IMPROVE THEIR RETURN POLICY AS THEY HAVE NOT TESTED IT PROPERLY AND IT IS CAUSING TERRIBLE PROBLEMS FOR SOME USERS

Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:10 am

Keliu wrote:

So the STOP hasn't actually taken the UK by storm then!

Philip, how exactly are you integrating your LED and STOP treatments? Together on the same day or one day after the other? And for how long have you been using the STOP?

STOP hasn't taken the UK by storm because of the price, most people won't spend £350.00 plus on a facial device, that is my feeling on the matter.

I do a STOP on a non-LED day - so my skin gets a rest. I tend not to use it on my forehead as it doesn't feel very comfortable - I focus on jaw - neck and eyes. I have been using STOP for 6 months now.

I think it is a good tool to have in my tool-kit.

Philip

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:23 am

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

I wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion that this device hasn't been tested properly.

Even products and devices that are tested properly still do not work for everyone, and sometimes, for one reason or another, cause the appearance to worsen instead of improve.

I have to agree with this...STOP is one of the few home tools that actually has clinical studies, though I would not necessarily consider them to be independent studies.

And like Low said, nothing works for everyone. Some people are wow'd by LEDs...others (like me) are not. I was wow'd by my dermaroller results...others were not.

STOP results are mixed at this point in time, and only time will tell what results for the majority wll be.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:34 am

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

I wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion that this device hasn't been tested properly.

Even products and devices that are tested properly still do not work for everyone, and sometimes, for one reason or another, cause the appearance to worsen instead of improve.

I agree that their customer service and return policy needs an overhaul, but I think that point has been driven home quite effectively by now.

InkyProse wrote:

THE MAKERS OF STOP MUST IMPROVE THEIR RETURN POLICY AS THEY HAVE NOT TESTED IT PROPERLY AND IT IS CAUSING TERRIBLE PROBLEMS FOR SOME USERS

I would think that if it had been tested properly, they would have been able to give Kassy good advice. They obviously did not give her good or reasonable advice-- they told her to continue the treatments. Ergo, it was not tested properly or as it should have been-- on a wide variety of subjects-- agewise, hormonally, sex, using with other devices, etc.

What do you base your opinion on?

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:36 am

bethany wrote:

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

I wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion that this device hasn't been tested properly.

Even products and devices that are tested properly still do not work for everyone, and sometimes, for one reason or another, cause the appearance to worsen instead of improve.

I have to agree with this...STOP is one of the few home tools that actually has clinical studies, though I would not necessarily consider them to be independent studies.

And like Low said, nothing works for everyone. Some people are wow'd by LEDs...others (like me) are not. I was wow'd by my dermaroller results...others were not.

STOP results are mixed at this point in time, and only time will tell what results for the majority wll be.

Clinical doesn't always mean peer-reviewed, I believe. (Someone correct me if I am wrong on that point). I would be interested to see the criteria for the studies.

Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:54 am

The question is, tripollar RF treatments that area available in salons, on their web pages they stress that this type of treatment: firms, lifts but does reduce fat by basically boiling the fat off. On the Win Health web site, it clearly states that fat loss whilst using STOP for the face does not happen, I don't understand this, as part of the process, basically heating the dermis and epidermis, fat is lost. I will I could find a clear statement about this, has anyone else worried about this?

I can see the benefit in the body treatment but not with the facial treatment.

Any thoughts?

Philip
ps It might take me some time to respond to any post as I only have 5 messages a day.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:55 am

InkyProse wrote:

I would think that if it had been tested properly, they would have been able to give Kassy good advice.

Well, how do you qualify "good"? But that's a digression... In my opinion, good advice would have been to stop using the device if it's making her look worse. However, that has little relevance about whether or not it's *safe*, or has been properly tested. You're conflating two seperate issues.

Quote:

They obviously did not give her good or reasonable advice-- they told her to continue the treatments.

Again, unrelated to the issue of whether it is safe or has been properly tested. Your conclusion is a non sequitur.

I'd like to add that it is in no way the responsibility of the Stop manufacturer to test their product with regard to other devices.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:01 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

InkyProse wrote:

I would think that if it had been tested properly, they would have been able to give Kassy good advice.

Well, how do you qualify "good"? But that's a digression... In my opinion, good advice would have been to stop using the device if it's making her look worse. However, that has little relevance about whether or not it's *safe*, or has been properly tested. You're conflating two seperate issues.

Quote:

They obviously did not give her good or reasonable advice-- they told her to continue the treatments.

Again, unrelated to the issue of whether it is safe or has been properly tested. Your conclusion is a non sequitur.

I'd like to add that it is in no way the responsibility of the Stop manufacturer to test their product with regard to other devices.

Why is it not their responsibility? Shouldn't they be able to advise customers on this issue?

And again, on what do you base your opinion that it has been properly tested?

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:02 pm

PhilipWB wrote:

The question is, tripollar RF treatments that area available in salons, on their web pages they stress that this type of treatment: firms, lifts but does reduce fat by basically boiling the fat off. On the Win Health web site, it clearly states that fat loss whilst using STOP for the face does not happen, I don't understand this, as part of the process, basically heating the dermis and epidermis, fat is lost. I will I could find a clear statement about this, has anyone else worried about this?

I can see the benefit in the body treatment but not with the facial treatment.

Any thoughts?

This was all actually discussed earlier in the thread - I don't recall page numbers, but I'd try reading around early December. These were the exact concerns several of us discussed. We eventually concluded that Stop couldn't be strong enough to do actual harm (meaning, clinical, permanent damage). Now, if you define "harm" as simply changing one's appearance (superficially or temporarily), then it can certainly do that, but so can literally any product on the market. Of course, some people have had really great results, too, so i think it will just take time to see how most people respond.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:10 pm

I missed this part. Obviously I qualified good as reasonable, as I said in the post. I think that for them to advise her to continue with the treatments was obviously unreasonable-- not good.

And, er, I never said it was *unsafe*, now did I? I am conflating nothing. You are adding the the second concept.

The results are meant to be cosmetic, are they not? I was obviously referring to the COSMETIC RESULTS.

how do you qualify "good"? But that's a digression... In my opinion, good advice would have been to stop using the device if it's making her look worse. However, that has little relevance about whether or not it's *safe*, or has been properly tested. You're conflating two seperate issues.

Quote:

They obviously did not give her good or reasonable advice-- they told her to continue the treatments.

Again, unrelated to the issue of whether it is safe or has been properly tested. Your conclusion is a non sequitur.

I'd like to add that it is in no way the responsibility of the Stop manufacturer to test their product with regard to other devices

Again, dear, I never said it was unsafe.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:13 pm

In a nutshell, I am saying that:

1] you are making an assumption that the device hasn't been tested properly, but you fail to provide any evidence. Hence, I do not agree with your assertion. If you can back it up with facts, I'd be happy to reconsider. Otherwise you're just making an unfounded claim.

2] It is economically unfeasible for a product manufacturer to test not only the safety of their device, but the safety of their device when used in conjunction with the literally thousands of others out there. I'm actually boggled that you would suggest this.

InkyProse wrote:

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

InkyProse wrote:

I would think that if it had been tested properly, they would have been able to give Kassy good advice.

Well, how do you qualify "good"? But that's a digression... In my opinion, good advice would have been to stop using the device if it's making her look worse. However, that has little relevance about whether or not it's *safe*, or has been properly tested. You're conflating two seperate issues.

Quote:

They obviously did not give her good or reasonable advice-- they told her to continue the treatments.

Again, unrelated to the issue of whether it is safe or has been properly tested. Your conclusion is a non sequitur.

I'd like to add that it is in no way the responsibility of the Stop manufacturer to test their product with regard to other devices.

Why is it not their responsibility? Shouldn't they be able to advise customers on this issue?

And again, on what do you base your opinion that it has been properly tested?

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:17 pm

InkyProse wrote:

Again, dear, I never said it was unsafe.

Well, I thought it was implied, but either way is fine. I'm happy to concede that you weren't referring to safety.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:22 pm

OK. I'll delete the contents of this post.

I was beginning to enjoy this. Very Happy

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:43 pm

InkyProse wrote:

OK. I'll delete the contents of this post.

I was beginning to enjoy this. Very Happy

I know what you mean, though! I think the back and forth banter is not only fun but it's also usually pretty enlightening.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:05 pm

InkyProse wrote:

bethany wrote:

I have to agree with this...STOP is one of the few home tools that actually has clinical studies, though I would not necessarily consider them to be independent studies.

Clinical doesn't always mean peer-reviewed, I believe. (Someone correct me if I am wrong on that point). I would be interested to see the criteria for the studies.

I didn't say anything about them being peer-reviewed or not...I said that they were not necessarily independent studies. That means that the people doing them have no affiliation with the manufacturer and that the study is not sponsored in any way by the manufacturer.

All the clinical studies can be found on the STOP and the TriPollar websites.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:24 pm

I think if people are having problems with this device they should STOP using it.

Very Happy

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:11 pm

I am an attorney, and I would say the manufacturers are subjecting themselves to FUTURE lawsuits at this point. Someone can file a products liability lawsuit (and succeed) if the mfg. knew or should have know that the product being sold COULD (doesn't have to be everyone) cause harm. The mfg. now has photos from a user of their device showing that it caused harm. Even if they don't know for certain that their device caused the harm, they are on notice of the potential of the device to cause harm and now have a duty of care to all future consumers. Their failure to warn (now that they have knowledge) could result in some pretty serious punitive damages. If there are any other attorneys out there, feel free to chime in!

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:24 pm

I cannot believe the histrionics that this device is causing. If you are a member of this Forum you will know that there is endless and ongoing discussion on all types of skin care gadgets and that peoples' responses to these gadgets can vary greatly. All of this makes for interesting reading and provides a basis by which to make an informed decision on whether to purchase or not.

However Inky, I think it is completely unhelpful to make sweeping statements in huge red print on something that you basically know absolutely nothing about. I agree that a company return policy would be an act of good faith - but to claim that it has not been adequately tested "agewise, hormonally, sex, using with other devices, etc." is irresponsible. You wouldn't know what type of research and development has gone into the development of this product - none of us do. And I would remind you that this technology is being used widely in salons all over the world. As for the STOP, we only have ONE person that has suffered negative results. I believe everyone else is now becoming freaked out and the element of fear has crept in.

Get a grip everyone - let's have an intelligent discussion about this device - and less of the hysteria. Very Happy

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:51 pm

charis wrote:

I am an attorney, and I would say the manufacturers are subjecting themselves to FUTURE lawsuits at this point. Someone can file a products liability lawsuit (and succeed) if the mfg. knew or should have know that the product being sold COULD (doesn't have to be everyone) cause harm.

I have absolutely no knowledge of the law - but I would presume that to successfully mount a lawsuit one would have to have some type of actual medical evidence (verified by doctors) that the device had done actual harm.

I think now that my above post is even more pertinent.

free skin care · Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:39 pm

Keliu wrote:

I cannot believe the histrionics that this device is causing. If you are a member of this Forum you will know that there is endless and ongoing discussion on all types of skin care gadgets and that peoples' responses to these gadgets can vary greatly. All of this makes for interesting reading and provides a basis by which to make an informed decision on whether to purchase or not.

... And I would remind you that this technology is being used widely in salons all over the world. As for the STOP, we only have ONE person that has suffered negative results. I believe everyone else is now becoming freaked out and the element of fear has crept in.

Get a grip everyone - let's have an intelligent discussion about this device - and less of the hysteria. Very Happy

I have to agree with Keliu...I think we have more than adequately discussed Kassy's situation, the return policy, etc. Hopefully we can move forward from here and talk about the results/non-results that others are experiencing with STOP.

I am going to go take a shower, and then pick apart my facial flaws in my magnifying mirror....I'll be back in a bit with all of the juicy details as to if I see any changes that could be related to STOP. Very Happy

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