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Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:16 pm  |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
LuvToSmile, I also wondered if stopping the other devices had anything to do with it also, but I don't think so, because the only thing I've ever used consistently was the LED. In fact there were 7 weeks throughout the holiday time that I only used it 1 or 2 times, and nothing like this happened..(My skin got that tired kind of dull look, but nothing mushy and saggy like I'm experiencing now.)
The only other thing I used a couple of times a week from December throuh mid January was the Tua Viso + some facial massage. I didn't notice anything significant while using it, but I only used it a short time.. Maybe I should add the TV back a couple of times per week, and see it it helps.. 
I am hoping that all of this is just coincidental, and the dreaded aging process has just taken over. The good thing (or not so much for me  ), is I'm the only one this has happened to. It would be so much worse if this happened to one of you younger girls.
Hopefully I'll get some insight when Colleen replies to my email sometime today. I have asked her to 'please show the Dr my pictures, because I'd appreciate his input' (Great idea Toby, thanks!)
I feel like I am in a very awkward situation, and I'm so sorry that I was responsible for bringing this negativism to the thread... I suppose I could have sat back quietly, not made waves + waited to see if anybody else was having the same experience, but those of you who know me well know I could never do that..
Keliu, I puposely didn't share the photos in the thread because 1. I want to give the STOP folks the benefit of the doubt, and every opportunity to help me rectify the situation I'm in, and 2. It's not fair to confuse our members who are happily using STOP, or even intimidate someone who is planning to buy or use STOP, because it might be just the thing for a great many of you.
Hopoefully I will remain "the one off" as Mishey so eloquently put it..  ...  |
I really think some of you need a reminder of what exactly "MY" input has been in this thread, because at this point it really is being blown out of proportion.. I'd suggest for those who have time, to read 'all' of my posts which indicate a slow and steady decline.. At the very least, read from page 45..
Here are a few points I'd like to correct, that are being incorrectly posted as fact, or implied as my say so;
1. I was never personally offered a refund, or an opportunity to return this device.. The fact is, I was told by two people (CS) to "continue treatments" + that "nothing is wrong with the device" and also "There isn't a thing wrong with you", etc..
2. I used this device exactly as instructed for a total of 15 treatments, and only used the gel that came with it for treatments.
3. The before pictures I posted were taken just days before I began STOP.. They clearly show a tight, toned jaw and neck with only the faintest 2 neck rings (my idea of looseness, was laughed at by several of you elsewhere!).. The after pictures speak for themselves, and you can all talk to death about hokus pokus with whatever it is you can do to alter pictures, but I assure you that I HAVE NEVER, EVER DONE ANYTHING TO ENHANCE OR OTHERWISE, ANY PICTURE I EVER POSTED. And frankly, I'm disgusted that I'm being put in this position of defending myself once again.. I can assure you all, it is the last time.
4. I look at the STOP experience as being just one more thing that hasn't worked, and has additionally caused me harm.. Also on the list is the "Cupping" devices.. And as Kelui mentioned, my first experience with Derm Wand was a disaster. It would have been nice though if she followed that up with the post saying "I was too over zealous with intensity and frequency, and it sorted itself out quite nicely once I figured that out."
5. As for lawyers, lawsuits etc... I never suggested such a thing, and take full responsibility for continuing with this piece of junk after I saw the first sign of damage under my eyes.. That was my bad, and now here you all have it in writing..
And finally, to 41yearsyoung; You haven't made a very nice entrance to EDS in my humble opinion. Furthermore, you don't know me from a hole in the wall, so I respectfully ask that you leave me out of your conversation.. How dare you be so insulting?
Can't wait to see what your 15 years of experience brings to the rest of the forum... We love to get input from 'Pro's'... Unless of course, your only interest is in STOP..  !
Have fun kiddie's, I really do wish you all the best.
K
ETA:... It really is time to move on to everybody else's experiences, PLEASE! |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:55 pm |
Thank you for all your information Kassy. It really is a shame when these threads blow one matter out of all proportion.
The main aim is to provide another opinion on skin care tools from those who have used them which I personally find extremely useful because of the often unfounded claims of the manufacturers or sellers. It's also great to be able to ask questions of people who have used specific products.
Everyone participating in the forum knows this and should simply make an informed decision based on ALL the reading and research, not just from this forum. The final decision to buy a product is yours.
I have been following this thread because this was one product I was interested in. I have seen very varied results (not just Kassy's) and this, plus other research has led me to decide not to buy the product at this stage. It doesn't mean I will never buy it but I will wait for a few months for further developments.
It is very difficult to know exactly what results are gained from one product when the research is not conducted in strictly controlled conditions. That is just something we all need to be aware of. The advice offered on the forum is based on use in uncontrolled conditions which include many different variables.
Let's just move on with this in mind and take the advice offered as it is intended. |
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:56 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| ETA:... It really is time to move on to everybody else's experiences, PLEASE! |
Kassy - Thank you for giving us permission to move on with this topic. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:47 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
LuvToSmile, I also wondered if stopping the other devices had anything to do with it also, but I don't think so, because the only thing I've ever used consistently was the LED. In fact there were 7 weeks throughout the holiday time that I only used it 1 or 2 times, and nothing like this happened..(My skin got that tired kind of dull look, but nothing mushy and saggy like I'm experiencing now.)
The only other thing I used a couple of times a week from December throuh mid January was the Tua Viso + some facial massage. I didn't notice anything significant while using it, but I only used it a short time.. Maybe I should add the TV back a couple of times per week, and see it it helps..
I am hoping that all of this is just coincidental, and the dreaded aging process has just taken over. The good thing (or not so much for me ), is I'm the only one this has happened to. It would be so much worse if this happened to one of you younger girls.
Hopefully I'll get some insight when Colleen replies to my email sometime today. I have asked her to 'please show the Dr my pictures, because I'd appreciate his input' (Great idea Toby, thanks!)
I feel like I am in a very awkward situation, and I'm so sorry that I was responsible for bringing this negativism to the thread... I suppose I could have sat back quietly, not made waves + waited to see if anybody else was having the same experience, but those of you who know me well know I could never do that..
Keliu, I puposely didn't share the photos in the thread because 1. I want to give the STOP folks the benefit of the doubt, and every opportunity to help me rectify the situation I'm in, and 2. It's not fair to confuse our members who are happily using STOP, or even intimidate someone who is planning to buy or use STOP, because it might be just the thing for a great many of you.
Hopoefully I will remain "the one off" as Mishey so eloquently put it.. ... |
I really think some of you need a reminder of what exactly "MY" input has been in this thread, because at this point it really is being blown out of proportion.. I'd suggest for those who have time, to read 'all' of my posts which indicate a slow and steady decline.. At the very least, read from page 45..
Here are a few points I'd like to correct, that are being incorrectly posted as fact, or implied as my say so;
1. I was never personally offered a refund, or an opportunity to return this device.. The fact is, I was told by two people (CS) to "continue treatments" + that "nothing is wrong with the device" and also "There isn't a thing wrong with you", etc..
2. I used this device exactly as instructed for a total of 15 treatments, and only used the gel that came with it for treatments.
3. The before pictures I posted were taken just days before I began STOP.. They clearly show a tight, toned jaw and neck with only the faintest 2 neck rings (my idea of looseness, was laughed at by several of you elsewhere!).. The after pictures speak for themselves, and you can all talk to death about hokus pokus with whatever it is you can do to alter pictures, but I assure you that I HAVE NEVER, EVER DONE ANYTHING TO ENHANCE OR OTHERWISE, ANY PICTURE I EVER POSTED. And frankly, I'm disgusted that I'm being put in this position of defending myself once again.. I can assure you all, it is the last time.
4. I look at the STOP experience as being just one more thing that hasn't worked, and has additionally caused me harm.. Also on the list is the "Cupping" devices.. And as Kelui mentioned, my first experience with Derm Wand was a disaster. It would have been nice though if she followed that up with the post saying "I was too over zealous with intensity and frequency, and it sorted itself out quite nicely once I figured that out."
5. As for lawyers, lawsuits etc... I never suggested such a thing, and take full responsibility for continuing with this piece of junk after I saw the first sign of damage under my eyes.. That was my bad, and now here you all have it in writing..
And finally, to 41yearsyoung; You haven't made a very nice entrance to EDS in my humble opinion. Furthermore, you don't know me from a hole in the wall, so I respectfully ask that you leave me out of your conversation.. How dare you be so insulting?
Can't wait to see what your 15 years of experience brings to the rest of the forum... We love to get input from 'Pro's'... Unless of course, your only interest is in STOP.. !
Have fun kiddie's, I really do wish you all the best.
K
ETA:... It really is time to move on to everybody else's experiences, PLEASE! |
Sorry for the entrance not being to your liking. I don't know you except from what I have read for weeks before joining and it has been basically only about you and your situation, which it is too bad about your experience...including those on the other threads as well which we brought up. I am not interested in STOP other than a friend of mine in London has it and loves it. I am intersted in the body device.  My input will be when it gets back to actually speaking about devices and their feedback. Not legal actual or personal lashing out. From what I read and know from my friend the company and win health have been very good about helping anyone who asked for it. It just maybe not the answers that each person is looking for that is the problem.m! |
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41yearsyoung |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:52 am |
| 41yearsyoung wrote: |
| From what I read and know from my friend the company and win health have been very good about helping anyone who asked for it. It just maybe not the answers that each person is looking for that is the problem.m! |
I can personally attest that Win-Health's service has been stellar for some, and very bad for others (me included). I asked only one question and posted the unfriendly reply earlier in the thread.
Despite the non-customer friendly attitude I ordered anyway, but then could not get an update on my shipment despite several emails, after their website failed to send an order confirmation. And I was not the only person that had non-responsiveness issues, unfortunately.
But it does indeed look like Ultragen has been very responsive. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:11 am |
This thread has taught me 3 things.
1. Never purchase an extremely expensive product/gadget until it's been on this forum for at least a year.
2. Never post a negative review.
3. Look at the number of entries from a forum member's post and then take it for what its worth. |
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The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:45 am |
| I would say that this thread re-iterated one more time the fact that people respond VERY differently to the same thing. And although it has been a common theme throughout multiple EDS threads it was magnified to an extreme on this one. In this particular case I have been a fortunate one to be in a positive responders category, while Kassy found herself on the opposite side. If we to compare pictures from successful outcome and unsuccessful one they convey totally different stories. It is difficult to predict how we respond, so need to use our best judgment, and even then it is difficult to know unless one tries it. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:46 am |
| Frodo wrote: |
This thread has taught me 3 things.
1. Never purchase an extremely expensive product/gadget until it's been on this forum for at least a year.
2. Never post a negative review.
3. Look at the number of entries from a forum member's post and then take it for what its worth. |
I would agree with 1 and 3, but I definitely think that people should post negative reviews when warranted.
Unfortunately, Kassy's review was taken far beyond Kassy's intent by other members. However, I don't see anywhere where Kassy was personally chastised for posting that review...in fact she received numerous thank you posts for doing so. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:58 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| Frodo wrote: |
This thread has taught me 3 things.
1. Never purchase an extremely expensive product/gadget until it's been on this forum for at least a year.
2. Never post a negative review.
3. Look at the number of entries from a forum member's post and then take it for what its worth. |
I would agree with 1 and 3, but I definitely think that people should post negative reviews when warranted.
Unfortunately, Kassy's review was taken far beyond Kassy's intent by other members. However, I don't see anywhere where Kassy was personally chastised for posting that review...in fact she received numerous thank you posts for doing so. |
Bethany - I agree with you. We need to have HONEST reviews whether they are positive or negative. This way we can form a less biased opinion. At the same time we should not go overboard with one way or another, and need to keep a constructive discussion flow. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:12 pm |
| Frodo wrote: |
This thread has taught me 3 things.
1. Never purchase an extremely expensive product/gadget until it's been on this forum for at least a year.
2. Never post a negative review.
3. Look at the number of entries from a forum member's post and then take it for what its worth. |
I don't agree with 2. either. What we need to do is post an honest review. Forum members then need to consider all reviews and make a decision. Keep in mind that one person's great review may be another person's mediocre review, depending on a number of factors as has been posted many times.
So, who's still using STOP and how is it going? |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:28 pm |
| mpstat wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| Frodo wrote: |
This thread has taught me 3 things.
1. Never purchase an extremely expensive product/gadget until it's been on this forum for at least a year.
2. Never post a negative review.
3. Look at the number of entries from a forum member's post and then take it for what its worth. |
I would agree with 1 and 3, but I definitely think that people should post negative reviews when warranted.
Unfortunately, Kassy's review was taken far beyond Kassy's intent by other members. However, I don't see anywhere where Kassy was personally chastised for posting that review...in fact she received numerous thank you posts for doing so. |
Bethany - I agree with you. We need to have HONEST reviews whether they are positive or negative. This way we can form a less biased opinion. At the same time we should not go overboard with one way or another, and need to keep a constructive discussion flow. |
The way I read your post, with the word honest in all caps, is that you feel some posts aren't honest ones. This is one of the reasons why I will no longer post a negative review. |
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The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:42 pm |
| Frodo - HONEST was in caps to stress that we need honest reviews ( positive & negative & neutral ), e.g. all sorts of reviews from different experiences as long as they are honest. Of cause if one does not feel like posting on one's experience it is also fine. There was nothing implied that some of the reviews on this thread were dishonest. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:42 pm |
| Frodo wrote: |
The way I read your post, with the word honest in all caps, is that you feel some posts aren't honest ones. This is one of the reasons why I will no longer post a negative review. |
In other words, people should not be afraid to post their experience, whether positive or negative - the value is in the honesty, not whether it worked for them (though, we want to know that too, of course  ). No one will be made to feel unwelcome if they share a less-than-glowing review. (In fact, sometimes those are even more important because it gives us an idea of what to be wary of, in terms of results or side effects). As Bethany mentioned, numerous people right here in this thread have expressed appreciation for the negative reviews. To withhold a negative review defeats the purpose of the whole forum, in my opinion. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:45 pm |
| miss anna wrote: |
| So, who's still using STOP and how is it going? |
I am!! Though I am in maintenance mode now, which means a treatment every 2-4 weeks.
Results after exactly 2 months:
- Some minor skin tightening pn forehead and neck that is NOT visible in photos, but is still there
- Some slight softening of forehead lines
- I'll be watching/hoping for some additional collagen development over the next 2 months. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:29 pm |
Here we go again. This thread is unbelievable! Suggesting that it is unwise to post a negative review is another knee-jerk reaction. The entire purpose of this Forum is to discuss all facets of skincare and to share our experiences with others so they can make informed decisions. What is the point if people are only gong to post positive reviews - don't you want to know about negative experiences? - I certainly do. If you look at every thread on this Forum, you will see that EVERY thread contains differing opinions. There is simply no 100% agreement on ANYTHING.
In Kassy's case - she actually pm'ed me and asked for my opinion on posting the photos. I told her that I thought she should post them because it was important for people to be informed about negative results as well as positive. No-one and I stress, NO-ONE is of the opinion that Kassy's experiences have not been a valuable input into this debate.
What has happened, however, has been a heated discussion on the safety of the device and RF technology in general. This then led to discussions on inadequate testing and lawsuits - all of which I found perfectly over-the-top (but that's just my opinion).
This Forum does not have a "shoot-the-messenger" mentality. We all want to hear about ALL experiences - otherwise, there is no point in participating. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:39 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
| Frodo wrote: |
The way I read your post, with the word honest in all caps, is that you feel some posts aren't honest ones. This is one of the reasons why I will no longer post a negative review. |
In other words, people should not be afraid to post their experience, whether positive or negative - the value is in the honesty, not whether it worked for them (though, we want to know that too, of course ). No one will be made to feel unwelcome if they share a less-than-glowing review. (In fact, sometimes those are even more important because it gives us an idea of what to be wary of, in terms of results or side effects). As Bethany mentioned, numerous people right here in this thread have expressed appreciation for the negative reviews. To withhold a negative review defeats the purpose of the whole forum, in my opinion. |
oops.. the above was my interpretation of mpstat's post, not Frodo's, even though that's who is quoted (sorry to mix up the posts, ladies!) It was intended to clarify that yes, of course we want ALL the honest reviews, even if it's honestly negative
I see that mpstat elaborated on it as well. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:55 pm |
| miss anna wrote: |
| So, who's still using STOP and how is it going? |
Well, I'm still plodding along - although my signature line probably sums up the situation!
I've just finished my 15th STOP treatment and I'm at the sixth week mark. I'm going to continue for another two weeks before I go into maintenance mode.
As for results: I do think my skin looks more toned or tightened. I also think that the lines around my mouth and some on my forehead look softer (but not eliminated - except for where there's Botox!). I see absolutely no lifting to the jowls and my marionette pouches are still there. I would say my neck is about the same.
To sum up - I would say the results have been pretty much the same as I have got from every other gadget - negligible. (I'm typing this with one hand because the other is attempting to erase my sagging with the Tua Viso - nobody can accuse me of not trying!)
So on I continue - but, hey, I enjoy it - and who's to know that I would look ten times worse if I wasn't plugging away with it all.
NOTE: I have some filler in my cheeks and have not noticed any diminishing of that. I have one particular lump of filler near my left eye that I do not like, so I've been working on that to try to get rid of it. It's still there - so that would appear to dispel any worries about fat loss. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:45 pm |
Lowbrowscientist - you interpreted my statement very well! 
| miss anna wrote: |
| So, who's still using STOP and how is it going? |
I am using Stop and currently in the maintenance mode. I have had good response, and look younger! Stop did not erase a couple of fine lines on my forehead, but it made good contribution to overall appearance. It earned a solid place in my beauty toolset.
I want to clarify that Stop is not a silver bullet for anti aging, but rather a part of complex approach that helps in addressing skin tightening. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:13 pm |
| mpstat wrote: |
| I want to clarify that Stop is not a silver bullet for anti aging, but rather a part of complex approach that helps in addressing skin tightening. |
Yep...if it were a silver bullet, it would cost FAR more than it already does!  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:27 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| mpstat wrote: |
| I want to clarify that Stop is not a silver bullet for anti aging, but rather a part of complex approach that helps in addressing skin tightening. |
Yep...if it were a silver bullet, it would cost FAR more than it already does! |
I would also like to remind everybody that if all of these home-use devices actually did what they claimed - cosmetic surgeons would be going out of business. Somehow, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon! |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:05 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| I would also like to remind everybody that if all of these home-use devices actually did what they claimed - cosmetic surgeons would be going out of business. Somehow, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon! |
And even if they did, the surgeons and dermatologists would convince the masses that they DO NOT WORK, just they they've done with facial exercise!  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:45 pm |
I have decided to have a complete break from my STOP to let the skin rest and have chance to produce the new collagen, I think sometimes we need to give the body a chance to respond to LED, Tripollar etc.
Will report back after my rest.
PWB. |
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49, male, using STOP, Wellbox, Nuface, Baby Quasar, LightStim, New-U, Tao Viso, UP5, dermarolling, and Cleo II |
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:54 pm |
| PhilipWB wrote: |
I have decided to have a complete break from my STOP to let the skin rest and have chance to produce the new collagen, I think sometimes we need to give the body a chance to respond to LED, Tripollar etc.
Will report back after my rest.
PWB. |
Philip - that is a great choice. Skin can only remodel so quickly, and all these tools, etc., can really fatigue your skin. That's also why I will not dermaroll more than every 3-6 months now.
Plus, one of the things I have been thinking about is how does the STOP keep new collagen from shrinking? I really don't think it can be that selective. So if you use it weekly (or even every 2 weeks), aren't you really just shrinking the collagen that you just developed? |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:12 pm |
| Bethany wrote: |
Philip - that is a great choice. Skin can only remodel so quickly, and all these tools, etc., can really fatigue your skin. That's also why I will not dermaroll more than every 3-6 months now.
Plus, one of the things I have been thinking about is how does the STOP keep new collagen from shrinking? I really don't think it can be that selective. So if you use it weekly (or even every 2 weeks), aren't you really just shrinking the collagen that you just developed? |
Bethany, I totally agree, I think I am going to spoil my skin with lots of nice creams and pump it with moisture and give it time to rest.
I did buy a Wellbox about a year ago when they were first released in the UK. I used the firming program on my face and neck the other evening and the firming was very noticeable and my skin was glowing. I will give STOP and a rest and start using the Wellbox in about a month.
I need to focus on the garden for a while.
PWB. |
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49, male, using STOP, Wellbox, Nuface, Baby Quasar, LightStim, New-U, Tao Viso, UP5, dermarolling, and Cleo II |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:30 am |
| PhilipWB wrote: |
| Bethany wrote: |
Philip - that is a great choice. Skin can only remodel so quickly, and all these tools, etc., can really fatigue your skin. That's also why I will not dermaroll more than every 3-6 months now.
Plus, one of the things I have been thinking about is how does the STOP keep new collagen from shrinking? I really don't think it can be that selective. So if you use it weekly (or even every 2 weeks), aren't you really just shrinking the collagen that you just developed? |
Bethany, I totally agree, I think I am going to spoil my skin with lots of nice creams and pump it with moisture and give it time to rest.
I did buy a Wellbox about a year ago when they were first released in the UK. I used the firming program on my face and neck the other evening and the firming was very noticeable and my skin was glowing. I will give STOP and a rest and start using the Wellbox in about a month.
I need to focus on the garden for a while.
PWB. |
 I am totally interested in the Wellbox and would love to hear how this works for you. Can you keep us updated. Is it for the face only or also for body. I have a brochure from a conference but it is in French and I didn't get too much out of it. I have heard some interesting this about it. But did hear that it take much more time that what the POSE is claiming. Also, being an LPG product I am worried about later sagging due to the suction, especially on the face. Facial skin is so delicate that the suction has to have an affect eventually wherein creating some kind of increased sagging after time. Where with the STOP, from what I have read only works under the skin to build up the collagen in the dermis. Very interested in your comments. Cheers! |
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41yearsyoung |
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