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Sun May 12, 2013 6:11 pm  |
LouLou is quite a bit younger than Carole M. If CM has had things done, it's more a recent thing (in her early 60's). (she has admitted to the nose job in her 30's so that is off the table).
When she was LL's age it was all facial exercise. In my experience her lip exercises make you look like you've had filler. I adore them! Maybe she's just overdone those. 
There are many other worthy tributes to the value of FE.... Rose Tran in her mid 50's is so fresh and beautiful and the lovely Eva Frasier in her 80's. The results are very individual. For me it's just another tool in the shed. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sun May 12, 2013 6:47 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| For me it's just another tool in the shed. |
very true... even people with face lifts would benifit from facial Ex.s |
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Tue May 28, 2013 4:55 am |
[quote="sister sweets"] In my experience her lip exercises make you look like you've had filler. I adore them! quote]
LOL -It has indeed come to the point that it is assumed that people have had filler, etc when they look particularly good for their age, though they might only have done facial exercises, Lightstim and other non-invasive stuff, if that!
I have always had chubby cheeks and, even now in early 60s, I have a babyish face - I now find myself getting annoyed that others might think I have had filler  !! I want to reap the rewards of putting up with those chipmunk cheeks when I was younger, without others now assuming that they're 'false'. |
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Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:14 pm |
| so this thread inspired me ( yes, no pun intended!) to buy CM's program as well, and she is a genius in coming up with this lip exercise! While I still have to try her other exercises, I have been doing her lip ex for few weeks now, n from the v first time the corners of lips lifted, great exercise....! |
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Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:51 am |
It's great to see how the exercise is absolute confirmation that it works AND fast. Btw, so does the lip plumper...YET Carole is constantly criticized on this forum for having lip implants. Sheesh... she just can't win  |
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Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:33 am |
| aprile wrote: |
| It's great to see how the exercise is absolute confirmation that it works AND fast. Btw, so does the lip plumper...YET Carole is constantly criticized on this forum for having lip implants. Sheesh... she just can't win |
well, even though I love her exercise, the lip lift n it works great, but she has 33 years on me! I still think she has work done/ fillers but wutever...I wont blame her for having lip fillers if she has em but her exercise works for me... not sure if it ll work for me when i am 69! we shall see! |
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Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:51 am |
| daler wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
| It's great to see how the exercise is absolute confirmation that it works AND fast. Btw, so does the lip plumper...YET Carole is constantly criticized on this forum for having lip implants. Sheesh... she just can't win |
well, even though I love her exercise, the lip lift n it works great, but she has 33 years on me! I still think she has work done/ fillers but wutever...I wont blame her for having lip fillers if she has em but her exercise works for me... not sure if it ll work for me when i am 69! we shall see! |
Hey at 36 - everything worked fast for me too. But honestly, the lip exercises continue to work for me even at age 57. I still don't buy the fillers thing, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. |
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Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:36 am |
But forgive me Aprile, I got to play devils advocate here. if her lip exercises transform the lips so much then why is there no actual photographic proof that they have done so. I mean its been around for ages now, and there is nothing to stop her from taking photos of someone before and after. The before and after shots in the books are often done rather in a different fashion that encourages speculation rather than people agreeing that exercises can happen and with something like the nose exercise (which shortens the nose) or the lip plumping exercise, why isn't there any photographs showing just what they can do?
To me when I compare older videos of Carole to ones of her recently I do see a major difference that I'm not entirely convinced is due to facial exercises alone, and as was rightly pointed out some time ago, if you look at the stills its almost like a different person. I can't remember who did that (and it might be in this actual thread) but there was definite differences that showed other means had been used!
I'm not against anyone having surgery, but the idea of someone having it and attributing it to something else and then misguiding folks into spending money on something that can't generate those results is in my book a bad thing. Sorry but got to be honest here.
| aprile wrote: |
| It's great to see how the exercise is absolute confirmation that it works AND fast. Btw, so does the lip plumper...YET Carole is constantly criticized on this forum for having lip implants. Sheesh... she just can't win |
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Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:51 am |
| aprile wrote: |
Hey at 36 - everything worked fast for me too. But honestly, the lip exercises continue to work for me even at age 57. I still don't buy the fillers thing, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. |
It's encouraging to hear that... thanks Aprile! |
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Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:10 am |
| daler wrote: |
| so this thread inspired me ( yes, no pun intended!) to buy CM's program as well, and she is a genius in coming up with this lip exercise! While I still have to try her other exercises, I have been doing her lip ex for few weeks now, n from the v first time the corners of lips lifted, great exercise....! |
I agree - Glad you like it. It's my personal favorite lip exercise ~ genius! There are other nice exercises in Carole's program. I think you'll like them.
When I see Eva Frasier's results with her program and Carolyn etc I am convinced you can maintain without fillers. Not saying anyone does or doesn't have them...only they know for certain.
Also I understand that Carole is very adept at using lip liners and maybe a plummping lipstick. I know done right that really can make the lips 'pop'  . |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:53 am |
I do believe face exercises can plump up lips...and it would not surprise me if years of doing lip plumping exercises would not perhaps make a more permanent difference that looks as if lips have been filled. Most face exercises may show immediate results but they are usually short-lived. But over time, the results start to last longer till they become permanent. I know that happened to me with my eyes.
Anyway, if anyone needs proof that face exercises can plump up lips to where they look like they have been filled, then here is pictorial proof and an exercise you may want to try from one of our own:
| sandooch wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Aren't lips just flesh - how can you build them up through exercise? I also don't see how just using exercise can reveal more of the teeth. |
Keliu, I know it seems impossible, but my lips got a little bigger while doing the two lip exercises in Ageless If You Dare and one lip exercise I made up I call lip push ups.
This is how I do them in case anyone didn't see my pictures on my face transformation thread in the lounge:
What I do is put my hands, palms facing down, one on top of the other on a table in front of me. Then I rest my lips against them (completely relax my head with my lips pressed up against the back of my top hand). Then I start the lip pushups by kissing the back of my hand hard. Hold the kiss for a couple seconds and release. Repeat for a total of 20 slow reps, then do 20 more quickly. Your lips should be tingling/burning when your done. I don't know if any other facial workout does this, but I just thought it up one day to get an additional resistance exercise for the lips. Even though my lips have always been full, I did notice they were starting to get a bit thinner last year.
Below is a collage of my lips taken before starting any facial exericse on the left. The one on the right is after doing them for 6 months.
Sorry the quality of the first picture looks so different. I used a different camera that didn't work when I was ready to take my after picture. Anyway, I have been under a lot of stress this past month because we're going through some financial difficulties and have been lucky to get one Ageless workout in each week for the past 4 weeks. I was maintaining with two workouts a week before this. Well, I can definitely tell and feel that my lips are not as firm as they were just one month ago. I really need to get back to doing my exercises at least twice a week. |
Source: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6481732� |
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Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:52 am |
| Nonie aka AD wrote: |
Most face exercises may show immediate results but they are usually short-lived. But over time, the results start to last longer till they become permanent. I know that happened to me with my eyes.
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Hey Nonie! very true.. when people start working out at the gym, muscles don't just develop in weeks or few months, it takes much longer n even then if one skips working out for even a couple of weeks muscles start to atrophy but quickly rebound once the work out is restarted.. |
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Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:57 am |
| I just tried the lip push-ups Nonie posted... whew That is not easy. 20 slow, 20 fast. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:11 pm |
Thanks for posting that photo Nonie - I was thinking about looking for it myself. YES Sandoch's lips do look great! She made significant improvements utilizing fe for lip plumping and shaping... Notice that her vermillion also looks more defined in the after photo.  |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:28 am |
| You see this is a great example, the photos look good but they aren't proof to me, because one is fuzzy and out of focus, and the other sharp and the position of the lips in relation to the camera. Sure her lips haven't changed, granted, but its not substantial enough to say that proves it in my book. I've kind of challenged people before who have said it about Carole's lip exercise giving them Angelina Jolie lips, and still to this day haven't seen it - and can't help but think its a story like the Emperor's new clothes in my mind. Sorry but got to tell it as I see it. |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:29 am |
Reposting this as photos showing that something is amiss here with Carole's appearance:
| cm5597 wrote: |
How about this:
In the first photo, she is in her early fifties. The second photo (top, right) is taken from her "Advanced Facercise DVD", and you can see that she's starting to rapidly lose some combination of bone, muscles, and/or fat in her upper cheeks.
Then presto-chango, in the lower two photos, she miraculously has higher cheekbones than even when she was 36. There is no way that is natural: those are clearly cheek implants.
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| Sean, just compare the older and latest youtube clips from Carole, and you will see that things have changed beyond natural. |
Yes, in the early days of Facercise, her face was far more expressive, for whatever reason.
I think that she used to look terrific, up into her mid-fifties and very natural. However, I do not like the recent cheek implants and anything else that she has done to her face. |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:31 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| You see this is a great example, the photos look good but they aren't proof to me, because one is fuzzy and out of focus, and the other sharp and the position of the lips in relation to the camera. Sure her lips haven't changed, granted, but its not substantial enough to say that proves it in my book. I've kind of challenged people before who have said it about Carole's lip exercise giving them Angelina Jolie lips, and still to this day haven't seen it - and can't help but think its a story like the Emperor's new clothes in my mind. Sorry but got to tell it as I see it. |
I suppose if one doesn't want to see it, one won't. There is no question whatsoever in my mind that the lips are plumper in the second photo than in the first. I would not even have guessed they belonged to the same person had I not been told because the second set not only looks plumper than the first, but the lips in the second image also have a youthful pout that is not in the first. In fact, I would believe you if you told me the second mouth belonged to a pre-teen or teen because it reminds me of the pout in Drew Barrymore:
Or Angelina Jolie:
The lift in the lips is so obvious to me that I think even a blind man could see it. I mean look at the wave where the lips meet; to me it shows a tautness like you might see if you took two wavy balloons that were half filled with air and pressed against each other then you inflated them fully...they would become taut and the curvature would reduce the contact surface area between them. I don't need the quality of the photos to be exact to be able to see that the first image shows thin, flat lips that are spread out while the second shows thick, full lips that are more heart-shaped. In fact, as Aprile pointed out, the vermillion is more defined which emphasizes the perfectly heart-shaped lips she didn't have before.
Now Deborah Crowley is a trainer with years of face exercising so one would assume she has an eye for changes in a person's face that the rest of us may miss (although this isn't one of those cases) and I seem to recall in a thread where Sandooch posted before and after photos, Deb made a point of remarking about the amazing change in her lips. Granted the photos were a different set from these and it seemed they were taken with the same camera so the quality was the same but I am sure she would be able to see the change here too. In fact, I prefer these photos here to the ones in that other thread because a naysayer may argue that Sandooch had used a plumping lipstick in the after photo in that other thread or because the photos were more closely matched, a doubting Thomas could have said one photo was just an augmentation of the other. That her lips look so plump while bare here IMO is a more compelling evidence of the change they have undergone. I can't get over the very obvious fullness in the second photo--as if someone added air to previously deflated balloons.
It always boggles my mind when statements are made that seem to imply the person sharing photos is trying to pull wool over our eyes. Why would they? They don't HAVE to show us anything and the fact that they are is clearly an indication of a confidence and pride in their achievement. I don't know whether looking like a freak the way bad plastic surgery makes people look is what it would take for some people to admit there is a difference. Maybe cosmetic surgery has given people a warped sense of what a positive change is supposed to look like. And then the sad thing is we dismiss Sandooch's change as non-existent because it is minimal. And then when the change is greater, we accuse the person of getting fillers. Can't win with some people it seems. Makes you wonder why the skepticism all the darn time! |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:58 am |
| not related to the recent posts but just wanted to say that in these photos CM looks like a doll, i mean unrealistic n artificial, but now that I have her dvd, she looks human in her dvd, you can c imperfections n all that makes us a living breathing human.. still the work done look but way better than these photos... |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:06 am |
How could you call Sandooch's transformation minimal? The other pictures of her you can find on this forum show that her lips have become fuller. But what she did is not, I think, a Carole Maggio exercise.
The point is, how far can you take it with exercise alone? |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:33 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
How could you call Sandooch's transformation minimal? The other pictures of her you can find on this forum show that her lips have become fuller. But what she did is not, I think, a Carole Maggio exercise.
The point is, how far can you take it with exercise alone? |
Lotusesther it isn't minimal to me if your question is directed at me but if someone claims not see a change in her lips when it is so bloody obvious, and in a discussion that seems to question the validity of a lip plumping exercises and whether it's possible for lips to change like they have in Maggio, then clearly compared to Maggio, Sandooch's change is minimal while Maggio's is huge.
Sandooch is younger than Maggio and the images show only a few months' worth of working out. How far one can take it with exercise I think depends on how long one continues to do the exercise and how much "raw material" they have to work with when they start. So that someone with still youthful lips might be able to get more fullness and hold onto it into old age than someone who waited till she had thin, wrinkly lips before starting.
Also I do not know why anyone would want to go farther than what Sandooch has achieved. To me that's the perfect look. Any more and she'll start looking like a Muppet.
I think the mistake people make with the pursuit of perfection is they seem to develop a type of dysmorphia and instead of going after looking normal for their age, they start going after MORE (quantity-wise instead of quality-wise) and hence end up looking like freaks.
The goal of face exercises isn't to morph your face into something it never was...but to try to make it the best it can be at the age it is with the "raw material" available. So the answer to "how far can exercise take one" is unique to each person. You can only look more like yourself and not suddenly go from having skinny lips to Angelina's fullness. When looking at before and after photos, one shouldn't be assuming that she will develop high cheekbones like Grace Jones because someone seems to have had that change. Chances are the person always had that "raw material" so all that person needed was to bring it out with good tone and definition in the facial muscles. What each person needs to do is focus only on oneself and seek to achieve the best tone and lift they can. Like work on getting rid of that double chin or frown lines and let the beautiful, unique best you come to light. Chances are you will be so pleased you will wonder why you ever craved features in another person. And how far should not matter...because IMO face exercises give a natural and oh so beautiful result that the "how far" really is "as far as is necessary to give the best look for you".
And I do know Sandooch does Ageless and Tanaka, not Facercise. I simply used her photos because no one else has posted before and after lip exercises photos that I could use to show the possiblities. |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:11 am |
Those pictures of sandooch's lips are great! I, too, don't see how they can be denied. Besides being convincing pics, why would a long-term member like sandooch lie about it? No gain to be had there...not like she was selling anything.
I hope maybe she's reading this thread because I like the sound of her lip push-ups but wonder if they promote monkey mouth over the long term? |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:36 am |
| Yubs wrote: |
Those pictures of sandooch's lips are great! I, too, don't see how they can be denied. Besides being convincing pics, why would a long-term member like sandooch lie about it? No gain to be had there...not like she was selling anything.
I hope maybe she's reading this thread because I like the sound of her lip push-ups but wonder if they promote monkey mouth over the long term? |
I don't know what "monkey mouth" is, but I would be concerned about promoting lip lines. I try not to pucker too much at this point. |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:53 am |
| daler wrote: |
| not related to the recent posts but just wanted to say that in these photos CM looks like a doll, i mean unrealistic n artificial, but now that I have her dvd, she looks human in her dvd, you can c imperfections n all that makes us a living breathing human.. still the work done look but way better than these photos... |
I have never had any fancy facials or whatever other non-invasive procedures people get to bring out the best in their skin when they go for beauty treatments so the "doll-like" appearance Maggio has does not really give me an unrealistic appearance. Perhaps it's because I've seen photos of real-life Barbie doll and she's a real human who just happens to have the sort of face doll-makers seem to go for. Also when I go to Nordstrom, the makeup sellers are so airbrushed that they almost look unreal so I choke Maggio's smoothness to makeup and maybe skin treatments.
About her cheeks, I don't know if she has fillers or not. But just the other day I posted a video of Tom Hagerty who is 81 and someone remarked on his cheeks and I do think they look a little like Maggio's do in the lower photos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXPbdmGMf2k
Also if you saw my photos when I was 20, I didn't have high cheekbones. I had flat cheeks but 15 years of Eva had me looking like a doll with high cheekbones (even though I do say so myself) and this is without any facials or whatever and the photo is w/o any makeup:
I don't post all this to try to prove that Maggio didn't do anything apart from exercises alone to achieve her results, but I do it just to make people a little more open-minded.
Is the order of this photos chronological?
I ask because the photo to the top right looks a lot like the photo Maggio posts as her before photo:
So could it be that the apparent firmness and smoothness of her skin is due to makeup to give an airbrushed look as well as a skin resurfacing facial which seems to give these sort of results:
She has admitted to getting a nose-job IIRC (I think I read that here) and that alone can change a face.
Also the loss of mass in her lower face due to aging can make her cheekbones become more prominent and if she's got good muscle tone over them, perhaps that can make the difference we see?
Now I have seen later photos where her face doesn't look as defined but I can't judge her because I have heard horror stories about menopause and so I think it takes some work and research and maybe luck to weather those storms and come out the other side looking as good as say Carolyn.
Again, I'm only playing Devil's Advocate. Not at all claiming to know what Carole has done or not done. |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:31 pm |
| Yubs wrote: |
Those pictures of sandooch's lips are great! I, too, don't see how they can be denied. Besides being convincing pics, why would a long-term member like sandooch lie about it? No gain to be had there...not like she was selling anything.
I hope maybe she's reading this thread because I like the sound of her lip push-ups but wonder if they promote monkey mouth over the long term? |
Hi Yubs:
I have thought about monkey mouth and how exercises like the Facial Flex gadget seem to bring it about yet an exercise like Tom Hagerty's Exercise #2 (http://www.shapeyourface.com/exercise_two.htm) doesn't seem to have given him monkey mouth and I assume he's done it for as long as his program has been in existence. I wonder if perhaps it's the muscle that one contracts that make the difference.
If you read the directions of the exercises on Tom's website, the exertion of force is not on the big muscle that becomes prominent in monkey mouth but it seems it's just the lip area that is being contracted. Also notice it's an isometric exercise where the lip force is exerted against fingers that are not pulling away but rather being held apart. So you concentrate the force on the lips and try to bring fingers together w/o pulling fingers apart.
Compare that with the Facial Flex device. It seems to require you to call on more muscles than just the lips because I get the feeling the spring in the gadget exerts and outward force so that you have to exert a strong opposite force and maybe use a larger part of your mouth muscle thus building that whole area.
For that reason, I don't think the exercise Sandooch describes will give monkey mouth. The muscle around the mouth (orbicularis oris) is a ring and it contracts inward to make the ring smaller. So the way to bulk it up is to create a great force that resists that inward contracton:
Which is what the Facial Flex gadget does. Exert an outward force against one's effort to contract that ring of muscle.
In Sandooch's exercise, the resistance seems to be different...so I expect a different effect. The muscles used to pout are more than just circular ring (orbicularis oris) but also other muscles like depressor anguli oris muscle:
So I think Sandooch's exercise brings that muscle into play.
If you curl up your upper lip to show the underside (think duck mouth), it seems the levator angularis oris muscle is tensed:
So methinks Sandooch's exercise does get that muscle working too.
I hate learning about muscles of the face coz I honestly can't stand the headache so this post is really giving me the shakes, making me woozy and break out in boils because I've been spoiled in that I let trainers do all the hard work of figuring this out and I just follow their direction w/o over-thinking things. But I do believe that to bulk up or shorten muscles, one needs to exert a force against the direction of contraction. If that's the case, and contraction still means shortening of the muscles along its length, then one would think that to bulk up these anguli oris muscles, one would have to stretch them against their length (ie pull down on the upper lip for the levater anguli oris) and then resist that pull by contractin the muscle. That is not what is happening in Sandooch's exercise. So again, it seems like it would not give you monkey mouth.
Disclaimer: I am no facial anatomy expert and don't want to be so if any of you get monkey mouth from Sandooch's exercise, I should not be held accountable since I don't claim to understand how any of this works or what exactly her exercise is doing. Just that I know that what tends to cause monkey mouth isn't exerting resistance in this way--or I should say, I haven't come across anyone who got monkey mouth from face exercises who wasn't doing an exercise that involved pulling outward on the orbicularis oris against the its inward contraction. |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:57 pm |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| I don't know what "monkey mouth" is, but I would be concerned about promoting lip lines. I try not to pucker too much at this point. |
Panda1 Monkey Mouth is when the muscles around the mouth overbuild so that you seem to have a look similar to this:
And that's what is tricky about face exercises. There's creasing of the face that seems to be the cause of wrinkles in the first place and why so many are afraid of them. But what separates a good program from one that is lacking is there has to be another exercise within the program that counteracts that wrinkle-causing movement so as to iron out the crease that would otherwise become permanent if one only did that creasing exercise.
For instance, people who opt to get Botox in order to freeze their face and who are totally against moving the face to remove wrinkles feel that way because they know that a repeated action...like frowning is what gave them wrinkles in the first place. The keyword being repeated (without any other action to counteract that movement).
Face muscles are so intricately intertwined and connected, not to mention the overlapping of muscles lying in different directions, that contracting one muscles expands another or pulls on another at a weird angle--making it really tricky to work all of them in a way that they equal strengthening.
So to effectively get tone in all muscles, it has to be a combination of exercises that wake muscles up that don't normally get used in order to balance out the ones that have had years of uses and pull them out to open up wrinkles.
For instance, puckering might cause lip wrinkles but Tom's exercise that I posted upthread may actually iron them out but only if done correctly so you don't end up with monkey mouth.
Smiling and laughing (and of course muscle sag/weakening) lead to permanent creases we call nasolabial lines. But that's because when we smile, we use the same muscles over and over so they get a workout while others under them or lying at a different angle to the ones used for that movement don't get a workout. In the end the strengthening of the ones being used and the repeated folding creates permanent creases. So a good face exercise program will awaken the muscles that have not been worked over the years so they too can get toned so they can pull on the ones that caused the folds and create an opening up of the wrinkles. Then there also has to be a building up of muscles under the wrinkles to push up and out on the wrinkles (See why I hate to even think about what exactly is needed to fix things? It's too complicated for my poor head to deal with). The aim of face exercises is to get ALL muscles in such good tone that your face seems to regain the elasticity is had before because every muscle has good strength to not be overpowered by another. Instead of some muscles being so slack and weak that they cannot counteract the ones that maintain a facial expression permanently, they become just as strong as the previously overused ones so that once someone completes an expression, the newly strong muscles pull everything back to its original place giving your face a relaxed look as if no expression had been made.
That's the aim of face exercises anyway. To improve tone and apparent elasticity so facial expressions are not permanently ironed in. The tone also makes your face expressive rather than frozen yet you look relaxed and fresh when you aren't making expressions, instead of having a dead or tired look all the time. |
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