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Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:45 pm  |
| Idealist wrote: |
| Hear hear. Also regarding everything getting into a blood supply, the exact opposite has always been the problem with skin care. It is so difficult for most anything to pass through the oil/water barrier in our skin, that most skin treatments are essentially useless for what they are designed for. They sit atop our epidermis with the dead skin cells, never reaching where they are supposed to. This is the whole premise behind dermarolling for product penetration, and now ultrasound, which is a far more pleasant and I believe effective way of doing the same thing. As ultrasound/galvanic is so effective at cavitation, which effectively creates little tunnels through the impenetrable barrier in the skin, we can finally get our actives where we need them, in the dermis, where skin cells are actually made, and where the antioxidants and other ingredients may be of use other than just overpriced emollients. |
Correct - very little of what we apply to our skin penetrates and does anything at all. Our skin is there to keep stuff out! This is a good read:
http://personalcaretruth.com/2011/01/skin-is-our-largest-organ/
I'll be glad when we just have one thread going! |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:57 pm |
| Idealist wrote: |
It is so difficult for most anything to pass through the oil/water barrier in our skin, that most skin treatments are essentially useless for what they are designed for. They sit atop our epidermis with the dead skin cells, never reaching where they are supposed to. This is the whole premise behind dermarolling for product penetration, and now ultrasound, which is a far more pleasant and I believe effective way of doing the same thing. As ultrasound/galvanic is so effective at cavitation, which effectively creates little tunnels through the impenetrable barrier in the skin, we can finally get our actives where we need them, in the dermis, where skin cells are actually made, and where the antioxidants and other ingredients may be of use other than just overpriced emollients. |
Kassy posted a study on fragmented HA thread.. HMW HA seems to reach dermis with no problem n with no assistance, meaning no US, no dermarolling, no liposomes...
I think what US does it to make it (HA) penetrate to the subcutaneuous tissue, n i think that's where the injectable fillers r placed too.... but on the other hand I doubt that a 1 or 2 mhz US could do that...
cosmetic companies have done a good job in making us believe that our skin barrier is like a fortress n we need their lil trojan horses to breech it! |
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:48 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
| Just got the Rex-Kara II - will post info here on it! |
Yay! 
If you think of it, (pretty please!) take some before pictures. You can always crop or blur out identifying features.
Enjoy your Rex Kara  |
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302 (Part one): http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 |
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:50 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
| Just got the Rex-Kara II - will post info here on it! |
Yay!
If you think of it, (pretty please!) take some before pictures. You can always crop or blur out identifying features.
Enjoy your Rex Kara |
I am hoping JaeBlue/Rapunzell has awesome success with this tool....definitely looking forward to hearing more about it! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm |
The bottom line is - people have to do what we feel is best for ourselves!
Some people jump in full force, while others take it slowly! I've learned for me, the hard way, to take it slowly.
Too many skincare promises and treatments that turned out to be A. a waste of money B. bad for my skin and C. potentially bad for my health.
Have to always balance "vanity" with solid smart health practices. So much out there and so easy to fall for the latest fad.
I am involved with a lot of products and people in the public eye who sell them. I've learned a lot. Also, for me, what works and is authentic.
Skin products getting into the blood stream is true. I'm not going to post 100 internet articles because we can all find articles to fit whatever side we want, but I know for a fact because of the blood testing that I've done with natural skin products and have seen the change in blood chemistry.
That doesn't have to be scary - just be aware but not let it make us crazy.
I'm going to give the RK 3.5 weeks, taking good before photos! I always do - we'll see! |
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:36 pm |
Should add > Skin products getting into the blood stream CAN be true.
It all depends on the molecular weight, etc. There's a lot we don't know.
OK looking forward to getting going - will check back in soon. Thanks for all of the ideas! |
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Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:26 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
Should add > Skin products getting into the blood stream CAN be true.
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The only people touting this myth are the manufacturers or sellers of so called "natural" products. If you ask any scientist they will tell you that very little of anything penetrates the skin barrier. Here is a good article:
http://askanesthetician.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/do-your-skincare-products-get-absorbed-into-your-bloodstream/ |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:26 am |
My only comment regarding the integrity (or not)of the skin barrier is personal. Years ago when I tried the "chemical" sunscreens from Europe - within minutes of applying I had a strong chemical taste in my mouth. Needless to say I quit these sunscreens!  |
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Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:07 am |
| cabrita wrote: |
| My only comment regarding the integrity (or not)of the skin barrier is personal. Years ago when I tried the "chemical" sunscreens from Europe - within minutes of applying I had a strong chemical taste in my mouth. Needless to say I quit these sunscreens! |
That does not sound good! 
But may I ask what you mean exactly?
In the US, you surely have chemical sunscreens, too? |
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Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:20 pm |
Is there a list anywhere of things we should NOT push into our skin with these devices? I learned the hard way about a couple of things not to dermaroll in.
Is it ok to use US with Retin A or retinol?
What about stem cells?
Peptides? |
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Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:13 pm |
Peptides are quite large proteins that are known to be difficult (impossible?) to get past the epidermis. Stem cells have had similar issues. I would use it with discretion with retinols and acids, but everybody's skin is different and can tolerate different things. I wouldn't want to drive retin A too deeply personally.
I would also not get too carried away about the idea of enhanced penetration. I am sure it enhances penetration of skin care ingredients to a certain degree, but given that a lot of skin care does sit on the skin effectively useless except for some highly formulated cosmeceuticals, and the percentage increase may be in the realm of 30% (I am not sure here, but I think I read it is thereabouts), then we are talking about a therapeutic result with many skin care ingredients rather than damaging effects, so long as you are sensible. Hopefully most of us are already using products we know aren't harmful for our skin. |
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Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:03 pm |
I have a friend who got liver damage from Retin A. I use a condensed sea water oil to replenish magnesium levels in my body. Just plain sea water and it's raised my levels. If we take a bath in simple epsom salts, it raises magnesium and sulfates in our body. I'm actually kind of surprised that people are still not informed.
http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/articles/report_on_absorption_of_magnesium_sulfate.pdf
And again - I think we all have to do what feels healthy for us. For me, I absolutely will not put strong and toxic chemicals on my skin. Why risk it? So many unknowns. I check everything I use with the Environmental Working Group and their Skin Deep site that rates dangers of these chemicals. It's a great site and very easy to check. It's the best site out there for this so far that I've found -
http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/
I'm not going to be the guinea pig for experimenting with a new technology in at-home ultrasound appliances by adding known toxins to my skin that will penetrate deeper. Besides which - I think we can always find safe alternatives if we do our homework. It's just a choice. Nothing is really worth the risk for me, not when there are so many healthy alternatives out there! We're lucky to live in an era with so many choices and more knowledge at our fingertips than ever. |
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Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:32 pm |
I saw these products today that can be used with ultrasound. I haven't used these personally so I don't know anything about them. It does have some silicones and dyes in the product.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/jenu-active-youth-eye-treatment/3510120
Ingredients
Water, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Betaine, Pentylene Glycol, Dimethicone, Methylsilanol, Mannuronate, Glycerin, Retinyl Palmitate/Carrot Polypeptide, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Carbomer, Dimethiconol, Phenoxyethanol, Mica, Menthyl Lactate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Sodium Hydroxide, Titanium Dioxide, Xanthan Gum, Benzyl Alcohol, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Disodium EDTA, Dehydroacetic Acid, Benzoic Acid, Salicylic Acid, Geranylgeranylisopropanol, Benzethonium Chloride, Hydroxypropyl Cyclodextrin, Sodium Hyaluronate, Methylisothiazolinone, Purified water, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-38, FD&C Blue #1.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/jenu-active-youth-lip-serum/3510128?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=0&fashionColor=&resultback=296&cm_sp=personalizedsort-_-searchresults-_-1_0_C
Ingredients
Hydrogenated Polyisobutene, Isopropyl Palmitate, Ethylene/Propylene/Styrene Copolymer, Butylene/Ethylene/Styrene Copolymer, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Phenoxyethanol, Cetearyl Ethylhexanoate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Sorbitan Isostearate, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Seed Extract, Retinyl Palmitate, Ceramide 2, Portulaca Pilosa Extract, Sucrose Cocoate, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-38. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:55 am |
| CookieD wrote: |
I saw these products today that can be used with ultrasound. I haven't used these personally so I don't know anything about them. It does have some silicones and dyes in the product.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/jenu-active-youth-eye-treatment/3510120
Ingredients
Water, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Betaine, Pentylene Glycol, Dimethicone, Methylsilanol, Mannuronate, Glycerin, Retinyl Palmitate/Carrot Polypeptide, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Carbomer, Dimethiconol, Phenoxyethanol, Mica, Menthyl Lactate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Sodium Hydroxide, Titanium Dioxide, Xanthan Gum, Benzyl Alcohol, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Disodium EDTA, Dehydroacetic Acid, Benzoic Acid, Salicylic Acid, Geranylgeranylisopropanol, Benzethonium Chloride, Hydroxypropyl Cyclodextrin, Sodium Hyaluronate, Methylisothiazolinone, Purified water, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-38, FD&C Blue #1.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/jenu-active-youth-lip-serum/3510128?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=0&fashionColor=&resultback=296&cm_sp=personalizedsort-_-searchresults-_-1_0_C
Ingredients
Hydrogenated Polyisobutene, Isopropyl Palmitate, Ethylene/Propylene/Styrene Copolymer, Butylene/Ethylene/Styrene Copolymer, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Phenoxyethanol, Cetearyl Ethylhexanoate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Sorbitan Isostearate, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Seed Extract, Retinyl Palmitate, Ceramide 2, Portulaca Pilosa Extract, Sucrose Cocoate, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-38. |
Personally, I would use neither of these, especially not "pushed in" with ultrasound.
Methylisothiazolinone is a preservative; does not have good reputation.
Isopropyl Palmitate is known to be highly comedogenic. I break out from it almost instantly.
I am no expert; so I do not know about the other ingredients. |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:13 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
No, I followed Fawnie's link to SEA, curious how their customer service etc. is.
I have looked into Lotioncrafter but I think their transport costs are considerably higher than Bulkactives or SEA, and my guess is they all get their stuff from the same (Chinese) supplier. |
Got it in the mail today! Much faster than I expected, and with mixing cups, spoons and a spatula as a bonus!
Now the wait is for the ultrasound contraption.
Re. actives ending up in the bloodstream: everyone with experience with aromatherapy (not the kind of diffusing oils for a nice scent but the kind with strong massages with oils) knows this can happen. Which is why I have an important question to ask:
Can you keep HA serum in the freezer until use? |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:32 am |
Chiqui 65 - Not sure I understand your question but re the sunscreens I have tried - prior to the European (Mexoryl based) I had used some US based but never had the chemical taste before. (I was also pretty slack on using sunscreen & was more into sun avoidance - much easier when you work from home.)
I have since just been using Zinc based & have never had this happen! |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:32 pm |
OK - what am I on? Day 3 - 4?
I don't want to get too excited and over-sell anything! But . . . OMG.
My neck cords are GONE. Where did they go? HAHAH
What the heck? I can't see them at all, they're very prominent. Under my chin is tightened, too.
Wow. I'm taking photos. I'm using a Green Tea cream (while waiting for the Quasar serum) with HA added and the Rex Kara Gel.
I'll update - want to give this much more time to make a final conclusion!! So hang on - |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:15 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
OK - what am I on? Day 3 - 4?
I don't want to get too excited and over-sell anything! But . . . OMG.
My neck cords are GONE. Where did they go? HAHAH
What the heck? I can't see them at all, they're very prominent. Under my chin is tightened, too.
Wow. I'm taking photos. I'm using a Green Tea cream (while waiting for the Quasar serum) with HA added and the Rex Kara Gel.
I'll update - want to give this much more time to make a final conclusion!! So hang on - |
WOW....So exciting Jae!! Looking forward to your progress updates! |
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59 years old. Very oily and acne prone. Staples: Retin-A. |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:15 pm |
why dont you check out the peptide serum made specifically for Ultrasound use that Fawnie makes ?
I am not affiliated to her at all but use it and love her products and trust them
I think its myfawnie@bigcartel apologies if this isnt quite correct, but do look as her things are lovely and do not have rubbish in them |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:25 pm |
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
why dont you check out the peptide serum made specifically for Ultrasound use that Fawnie makes ?
I am not affiliated to her at all but use it and love her products and trust them
I think its myfawnie@bigcartel apologies if this isnt quite correct, but do look as her things are lovely and do not have rubbish in
them |
I looked there the other day and didn't see that posted.  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:30 pm |
oh Bethany , I am soo sorry, I have just looked at the website and it has had a makeover, it isnt there you are right
Now what am I going to do?
Sorry for that it was a good serum wish I had bought more. |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:35 pm |
| I'll ping Fawnie to stop by...I am sure she would remake anything in high demand, lol. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:05 pm |
Someone posted a link to a German co making serums for ultrasound. Been emailing them, the man is a wiz! And really into vety safe products. He just me info were to get in the states.
Will post when I get home! Am liking the Rex Kara gel, too!
I just can't get over my neck! Am thinking that is has relaxed those muscles - amazing! Hope it continues. |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:15 pm |
Cool! The RK gel did sound simple and nice. So you're enjoying it? Great!
On the penetration issue, again, yes essential oils have extremely small molecular structures that do penetrate into the blood supply. However our cosmetics are rarely made up of essential oils (although they may contain a small percentage which will penetrate anyway). Most skin care ingredients have the exact opposite problem - the molecular size is too large. It has been the age old problem that cosmeceutical companies have been trying to overcome with ingredients meant to enhance penetration with varying results. Invariably the products are expensive, and we really can't be sure how effective they really are. If you use natural skin products consisting mainly of plant extracts, antioxidants and vitamins, then it would be a safer bet IMO. Of course they need to be in an aqueous base, although ultrasound will work with an oily suspension, just not as well.
Avoiding known liver toxicity risks that have been known here for years (retin A) should be common sense, I would think. As always, check anything you are not sure about, or use a trustworthy source. |
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:21 pm |
Cosmetics are designed specifically to sit on top of the surface - like foundation or blush, eye shadow.
VERY different mode than serums and skin treatment creams.
Play it safe! Essential oils can be great and are powerful, still check! |
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