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Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:31 pm  |
| foxe wrote: |
| Luminosity wrote: |
I asked him about CPs before the AALS because I was afraid the copper might be scattering the light and making the treatment less effective. I don't even know if that is possible but I was curious about his answer.
He didn't seem to be a fan of CPs in general. He had concerns about the quality or source of the CPs out there. He said CPs could react differently for different people and could cause an exfoliation effect (he didn't follow up on why that would be undesirable - maybe that would make the LED treatment too harsh?).
So, in the end, I don't have a good answer about why not to use CPs before the Lightstim. My hunch is that it is too stimulating (and would be best applied once the skin has calmed down.) |
Thanks Luminosity. I wonder exactly what Steve does know about CPs??? Perhaps I'll venture to ask. Thanks again. |
Apparently it's a good thing to use the LEDs w/ CPs - the question was already answered on the SB forum a long time ago and a study had been done:
CONCLUSION: LED-PI maintained human fibroblast (HS68) viability and increased collagen synthesis when applied by itself. In the combinative stimulation for in vitro collagen production (when LED-PI was followed by Cu-GHK-supplied incubation), stimulated cells showed increased bFGF secretion, P1CP production, and COL1 expression, compared to the LED-PI treatment alone.
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4570023352/m/9570034505?r=9570034505#9570034505
Phew - I can go back to using my CPs and AALS together now! (but, I may want to top the CPs off w/ NCN's Matrixyl 3000 that I have, since that ingredient is in the new serum offered by Lightstim  ) |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:16 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
| when LED-PI was followed by Cu-GHK- |
I have always taken that to mean that the GHK was used After the LED, foxe? |
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Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:30 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| foxe wrote: |
| when LED-PI was followed by Cu-GHK- |
I have always taken that to mean that the GHK was used After the LED, foxe? |
That's how it reads to me also? I don't know if this has any effect but since CP's are said to have sun protective properties would that apply to the LED as well? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:32 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| foxe wrote: |
| when LED-PI was followed by Cu-GHK- |
I have always taken that to mean that the GHK was used After the LED, foxe? |
That's how it reads to me also? I don't know if this has any effect but since CP's are said to have sun protective properties would that apply to the LED as well? |
That was my concern as well... I didn't know how to intrepret the study mentioned... Hoping applying the CPs *after* is the way to go... |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:03 pm |
So in a nutshell ladies...I've been reading this for HOURS.  I remember at some point in time the mention of green tea. What is the best pre-serum for the AALS? Because if I'm reading correctly is becoming unanimous.
I've had my AALS for two years, its time for me to quit playing and start using it on a consistent basis.
Thank you
Kitty |
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Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:19 pm |
| FWIW: On the Skin Bio forum there are discussions regarding using CP's with LED and what I have read is they are using the LED after the Copper - to enhance penetration as one reason. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:38 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| FWIW: On the Skin Bio forum there are discussions regarding using CP's with LED and what I have read is they are using the LED after the Copper - to enhance penetration as one reason. |
Everyone is going on what foxe posted, this part:
(when LED-PI was followed by Cu-GHK-supplied incubation)
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4570023352/m/9570034505?r=9570034505#9570034505 |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:03 am |
| Toby wrote: |
Steve is on QVC right now!!!! 
Quick show but great information and a neat caller called in and said her crows feet were gone after using the light....she is 61 and started noticing the changes after four weeks of use!!! |
O.K. So where can I find how often in the four weeks the 'light' was used, for how long she used the light and if she used anything else...!! The anything else is the point for me right now! |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:13 am |
Editing to erase the same answer,... this is getting tiresome somehow, can't understand how once I've sent my first message of the day, when it appears repeated I seem to have no problem in 'editing' the second and editing it with nooooooooo repeat!!!! Nothing to do with the subject obviously, just a bit fed up with having to re-edit the messages/posts I send here for them to not appear twice.
I guess I'll just not bother in the future and if they appear twice, ... I'll be a bother to others reading!
Sorry!
Hugs,A. |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:49 am |
| ATester wrote: |
| Toby wrote: |
Steve is on QVC right now!!!!
Quick show but great information and a neat caller called in and said her crows feet were gone after using the light....she is 61 and started noticing the changes after four weeks of use!!! |
O.K. So where can I find how often in the four weeks the 'light' was used, for how long she used the light and if she used anything else...!! The anything else is the point for me right now! |
Collagen takes months to form. In the first presentation on QVC, Steve pointed out that no immediate results will be seen from using the light. He said that it takes between 6 to 9 weeks for collagen to start to enhance. But this is only the start of the journey - real results will only be visible months down the track (my words now). I recently read an article in US Elle about having Sculptra injections to enhance the growth of collagen. The writer said she did not see any results until after 5 months and 4 treatments. The Sculptra injections are a much more invasive treatment than using an LED. I think it's really important to keep expectations within the bounds of what is physically possible. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:13 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| foxe wrote: |
| when LED-PI was followed by Cu-GHK- |
I have always taken that to mean that the GHK was used After the LED, foxe? |
It seems that they applied the GHK after in the study, but Dr Pickart said it's been used the other way here:
So, the light system increased GHK-Cu uptake into the skin by 39 fold.
However, we are receiving a number of reports from clinics and spas that regular red LED lights give great results when used after CP Serum, Super CP serum, or Folligen Solution. |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:46 am |
| foxe wrote: |
It seems that they applied the GHK after in the study, but Dr Pickart said it's been used the other way here:
So, the light system increased GHK-Cu uptake into the skin by 39 fold.
However, we are receiving a number of reports from clinics and spas that regular red LED lights give great results when used after CP Serum, Super CP serum, or Folligen Solution. |
Thanks, Foxe. Is that from a different study?
I think I will keep the CP to after the AALS. I tried the GHK before the AALS 1 time and my face was very red using it that way! |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:37 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
Thanks, Foxe. Is that from a different study?
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I believe it is, riley. Dr Pickart mentions this info coming from U of Texas Medical Center, whereas the study I provided earlier was from Taiwan.
Pretty darn good penetration with LED use in any case! Before OR after! I wonder how soon after, though.
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8890018252/m/1820081685?r=1820081685#1820081685 |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:53 am |
Here's something else I found and would like to share (y'all know I like my CPs  ). I don't always use my LED after applying CPs, but it is always on a clean face. I think that I will try to apply my CPs just before or after the LED from now on, though.
The most recent study (2007) of wound healing activity of GHK-Cu was conducted in Taiwan. Huang et al. evaluated the effect of GHK alone or in combination with LED irradiation (light emitting diode irradiation, 625-635 nm) on human fibroblasts. Combined GHK and LED treatment resulted in 12.5-fold increase in cell viability, 230% increase in basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF) production, and 70% increase in collagen I mRNA production compared with the LED irradiation alone (13).
Since fibroblasts are the key cells in skin reparative and renewal processes, the ability of GHK-Cu to support these cells increasing their functional activity may in part explain its wound healing and skin rejuvenating activity.
It is in the SOFW Journal, The journal has published skincare articles for over 140 years and is published in English, German, Polish, Russian, and Chinese. http://reverseskinaging.com/SOFWGHKArticle.pdf |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:18 am |
Yes I read it. Thanks DM. My comment was meant to add to the discussion regarding use of LED: before OR after CP's. I am on the Skin Bio forum every week and have read numerous reports and advice from Dr. Pickart and regular posters about CP use before LED. It seems to get a big thumbs up which I found enouraging and so decided to go this route myself. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:51 am |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| It seems to get a big thumbs up which I found enouraging and so decided to go this route myself. |
Sister, how are you using the ASG with the CP before the AALS? Do you use the CP first and then spray with ASG? |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:53 am |
| foxe wrote: |
I believe it is, riley. Dr Pickart mentions this info coming from U of Texas Medical Center, whereas the study I provided earlier was from Taiwan.
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Thank you, foxe. I just noticed the date on both of these studies, 2007 and 2008. I thought they were more recent than that! At any rate, I will keep apply my CP afterward the AALS (and I do so pretty much immediately after using the AALS). |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:08 pm |
This is what Dr. Pickart said in the above link:
This is data from the University of Texas Medical Center at Galveston using Pulsed LED Light to push GHK-Cu into human skin using a Fanz Cell. The experimental LED device was made by Photomedix.
The light was at a wavelength of 450 nanometers which is blue light.
The result is the 24 hour skin uptake (Value plus SD = standard deviation)
Control GHK-Cu 139 (SD 18 ) nanograms per cm square skin area
GHK-Cu and Pulsed LED Light - 4726 (SD 997) nanometers per cm square skin area.
So, the light system increased GHK-Cu uptake into the skin by 39 fold.
However, we are receiving a number of reports from clinics and spas that regular red LED lights give great results when used after CP Serum, Super CP serum, or Folligen Solution.
First, Photomedex is the company which bought out Procyte; they continue to make Neova GHK-Cu products. Photomedex makes LED lights under the brand name Omnilux, including New-U and Clear-U. The LED used in this study was blue light (450 nm) typically used for acne, not red light which is antiaging. More importantly, the unpublished study appears to be done using a Franz Cell Chamber, not human subjects. For those reasons I really don't think it has much to do with people using their AALS in conjunction with GHK-Cu or other copper peptides.
http://bmctoday.net/vehiclesmatter/pdfs/TheFranzCellChamber.pdf |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:13 pm |
Well, I disagree with your thoughts Lacy. But thanks for providing the info on the Franz Cell. It does seem to be just the right tool for testing here*(see note) and I will continue to use my LED along w/ CPs for better penetration. If they got such good results from a BLUE LED, then better results should come from using an AALS....
*...results of the Franz cell assay cannot necessarily predict the efficacy of a drug formulation; it does allow formulators to determine whether a particular formulation delivers an active agent through the skin. |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:25 pm |
If I wanted to use CPs before the led, the CPs would in no way scatter the light? I just keep thinking: copper = metal = reflective to light.
That is my super intelligent physics mind at work, lol. I just want to make sure I'm not shooting my led in the foot! |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:43 pm |
I decided to experiment with using the CPs before the led treatment.
Here's what I applied:
--NaPCA spray (use as my toner - from a health food store)
--Hydrating B5 gel (basically, hyaluronic acid I have from a failed Vit C experiment)
--CP Serum from Skin Biology
--20% Matrixyl 3000 from NCN
--CP Accelerator from NCN
In other words... my skin was nice and moist! I waited about 20 minutes and used the Lightstim.
Afterwards I have to say I noticed my skin was much more dewy than it had been. Maybe even the best it's looked since I started.
As long as the CPs don't scatter the led, perhaps using it beforehand is a good way to go, at least some of the time. |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:27 am |
| I love my LightStim and would not practice without it. Since I believe in this technology I kept using the light everyday. It has a large head so it covers more area in less time and rapidly brings down redness from microdermabrasion or chemical peels! |
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Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:48 pm |
Today my boss gave me a nice compliment that I have to put down to the LightStim. She asked what I was doing because the last couple of months I seemed be glowing.
And, no I am definitely NOT preggers! Wish I could say, "Oh... It's my awesome exercise regimen." No - my couch potato status remains unchallenged. Eating habits... the same. Products... the same. An amazing Lotto win?? That would sure give me a rosey hue. No... the only different element in my life is the LightStim and fairly consistent facial exercises. But I'm guessing the glow is more from the lights and the exercises are keeping my nose up by my cheeks.
Yippee! |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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