Silicone good or bad for skin or in skincare?
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free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:26 am

OK, the cyclomethicone is a very typically used, volatile, silicone. There is no doubt that this ingredient is in there to help you spread the product easily and then vaporize off to only leave the actives in place. This silicone has no chance to block up your pores or skin because it is meant to evaporate off.

The polysilicone-11 is a "film former". Now this one does have a chance to block up pores and skin. But notice that is it fairly low on the list of ingredients. So that means it is being added at a low percentage. Probably just enough to form a film to protect the actives from being washed off or rubbed off of the skin. In my opinion this is a good idea, and they have probably put just the right amount to get the job done.

I think this formula should be OK to use in my opinion. I wouldn't expect too much, if any, skin blockage being caused by this formula.

John

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:51 am

Thanks for checking the ingrdients John.

BTW I also live in Arizona! I really am carefull about sunscreen, etc. Thanks for sharing your melanoma story and I am glad that you made it through that ordeal and are fine now!

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:17 pm

Wow, John. You have a story to share - I for one am thankful you did! Amy

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:15 pm

John,
Thank you for sharing that story with us and bless you for being a survivor! I just lost my mom (44yrs, old) to cancer in June 06 and I know the scare it can cause. I think that many people need to be ware of tanning beds and worshipping the sun. I must confess that I used to do alot of sun bathing but now refuse to. I am also interested in a product containing pomegranite due to its anti-cancer/oxident benefits. Can you recc? Also, what good self tanners are out there that don't stain clothing, build up on skin, and leave that nasty ring around the tub that is hell scrubbing off?

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:25 pm

Go to this website and check out this product. I do not SELL this product, although I did play a strong part in developing the formula for them. It was rated as one of the 10 best by Shop Etc. Magazine back around March or so when they rated all the self-tanning products.

http://www.aqua-tan.com/

You want to find self-tanners that have DHA as the active. It should have ethoxydiglycol in the formula to drive it as deep into the skin as possible for a good tan color. It should also contain some sort of emollient or moisturizer so that you don't get the dreaded lizard skin when it dries, and leopard skin when it starts to fade. Also, watch out for the ones that add pigments for an instant effect. Those are the ones that will definitely stain your clothes and leave the awful ring in the tub. Look on the ingredients list and at the bottom if you see dyes, pigments, iron oxides, or things like that listed, then you have a chance of getting stains.

John

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:27 pm

ps I lost my dad to colon cancer at age 56 back in 1992. I still miss him to this day. My mom has breast cancer but it has been treated and things are looking good so far. I SO HATE CANCER! I wish I was smart enough to find the cure....

Sorry to hear about your mom's passing.

John

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:33 pm

John,

Thanks for your condolence! I offer my condelence right back to you. Don't we all wish we could find the cure? Sad

It is a big threat now.

There are good treatments out there though and things seem to improve every month for cancer patients. Surprised

But, even more reason to take good care of our skin! Wink

I will look up the link and find a good self tanner. Thank you for your speedy response and your expertise!

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:57 pm

John, on a positive note, my father was diagnosed with a level 5 (yes, that is not a typo) melanoma on his HEAD 15 years ago. He underwent 2 horrendous ops over a 6 month period, but by some miracle it never spread into other nodes or his brain. Now 14 years later he is clean as a whistle. Several years later during one of his routine check-ups, he plucked up the courage to ask his specialist what he thought when he first presented to him and the doc said that he had felt very sad (dad had been his patient for many years prior to the T5) because he honestly thought it would be about 3 months tops.

However the same year (just a couple weeks after dad I think) my uncle got lumps in the nodes under his arm, following the removal of a melanoma mole on his arm or leg a year before. 7 months later he was dead... so, you truly never know. Bah! I turned my happy story into a sad one. Confused

But in closing I will say... tanning beds are evil. Evil, evil, evil and I believe should be banned. There. that is better. Got that out of my system. Laughing

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:07 pm

Very interesting story tiger_tim! I am AMAZED that your dad pulled through and happy that he did! When I talked to the doctors they were telling me that T-5 was an instant death sentence. But, if it didn't spread through his lymph system, that is probably what saved him. I had no spreading in my lymph system either. At first they were talking about taking out my lymph nodes all up and down my right leg just to be sure. But, I was having none of that! I didn't want the horrendous scarring that it would bring. So I talked them out of it, and luckily things turned out alright.

Yep, death to tanning beds!!!

John

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:03 pm

yea, I think the doc was surprized it did not go into his brain, but somehow I remember someone saying that it kind of spread outwards between the skull and scalp rather than inwards. It was just a fluke, pure fluke.

Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:07 pm

I do formulate with DMC occasionally. Build up of this particular silicone, I believe, would depend upon the viscosity of DMC you use. DMC is available in different viscosities, as are many of the other silicones. Incidentally, many of our prescriptions or topological ointments include DMC too. If you choose your ingredients wisely, DMC and many of the other silicones in small amounts will not be harmful. Bekka

free skin care · Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:56 pm

I just wanted to say that this is a fascinating discussion! I am learning a lot about silicones over the past couple of days from this thread and others. Thanks to John, Amy, Theresa and all Smile

free skin care · Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:24 am

Thank you! I think it is wonderful to share your support and thoughts. Every time my kids friends visit tanning booths I shudder. The more info out there the better - so many of you have gone thru so much - Amy

free skin care · Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:31 am

I'm actually starting silica gel (silicone) as a nutritional supplement for my dogs. It's to support their skin and coats.

free skin care · Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:32 pm

Hi Rjez, You have lucky doggies that you take such great care of them!

Silica I believe is SiO2 (form of silicon dioxide)occurs as as quartz and other forms from the earth's crust -

silica gel H2SiO3 is a chemical compound and usually a colloidal form of silica - it is the dessicant in the pouch you find in items
silica is used a lot in alternative medecine with bones as it influences calcium absorption, often to purge - I use to use it for ovarian cyst issues - it is found in the herb horsetail and is often used to strengthen nails and all kinds of things -

Silicones are - below is the wikipedia def for you:

Any of a group of semi-inorganic polymers based on the structural unit R2SiO, where R is an organic group, characterized by wide-range thermal stability, high lubricity, extreme water repellence, and physiological inertness and used in adhesives, lubricants, protective coatings, paints, electrical insulation, synthetic rubber, and prosthetic replacements for body parts.

Any of a diverse class of polymers manufactured as fluids, resins, or elastomers. They are partially organic compounds, but, unlike most polymers, they have a backbone containing no carbon, composed instead of alternating silicon and oxygen atoms. In most silicones, two organic groups (see functional group), usually methyl or phenyl, are attached to each silicon atom. Silicones in general are exceptionally stable and inert. Silicone fluids are used in hydraulic fluids, emulsion-breaking compositions, and breast implants and as adhesives, lubricants, water repellents, and protective coatings. Silicone rubbers are used as electrical insulators in encapsulations, coatings, and varnishes; as gaskets and caulking material; in specialized tubing; as automobile engine components; as flexible windows in face masks and air locks; for laminating glass cloth; and as surgical membranes and implants.

Confusing arena indeed with a variety of opinions!
Hope this helps! Amy

free skin care · Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:48 pm

AmyNaturDerm wrote:

They are partially organic compounds, but, unlike most polymers, they have a backbone containing no carbon, composed instead of alternating silicon and oxygen atoms. In most silicones, two organic groups (see functional group), usually methyl or phenyl, are attached to each silicon atom.....

Confusing arena indeed with a variety of opinions!
Hope this helps! Amy

Confusing indeed Amy! I have one question here that maybe you or John could answer. I thought that what made something orgainc as opposed to inorganic was the presence of carbon. Yet the above statement seems to say otherwise. Am I wrong? What makes something organic as opposed to inorganic?

Very interesting discussion BTW! Smile

EDIT: My two cents on tanning beds. EVIL! I boycott any business that even uses tanning beds and encourage all of you to do the same!!

free skin care · Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:56 pm

I am going to leave that one to Sir John who is immenently more qualified than I am! Rather than present my own opinion, I thought the wikipedia definition was the best! Theresa, I just want to say I appreciate your suppport, thank you - Amy

free skin care · Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:08 pm

The reference to the methyl or phenyl group gives it the "partial organic" meaning. You are right that an organic compound has to be based on the carbon atom. The silicone compounds are based on the silicone atom. But the methyl and phenyl groups bonded to these silicone compounds have carbon in them. That's where they get the "partial organic" name from.

One quick note: I enjoy the conversation with you guys immensely. However, I'm just another guy who puts his pants on one leg at a time. I'm happy when I can answer some of your questions and really don't need to be considered something more than what I am. Just consider me another member of the team, and nothing more, and I'll be happy.

John

free skin care · Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:22 pm

John,
So essentialy a silicone is a silicon (I believe you meant to say this and not silicone) atom with a methyl or phenyl group attached. The silicon atom contains no carbon and is inorganic but the silicone molecule has carbon because of the phenyl or methyl group and is therefore orgainc. I know that I am probably just repeating what you said in my own words but I just want to see if my understanding is correct.

On your quick note. Personally I never did consider you to be more than you are. I will base my opinion on you and how much I will value your opinions based on how you answer questions. Just like I do with every other forum member. Wink

free skin care · Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:39 pm

Useful info. Thanks

Before I didn't know anything about silicone.
But I've used la prairie rose illusion which is a silicone-based primer. After reading this.. I think I will use less of it or just stop using it. Confused

free skin care · Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:17 pm

It sure is nutella (I am guessing you are a nutella fan:-)

Thought I'd share some new info - I have been picking the brains of a few cosmetic, bio and environmental chemists this week - they had some interesting info - atleast I think it is-

They explained to me that volative silicones are synthesized compounds that are based upon mineral oil and silica - the volatile part comes from the mineral oil which is a petroleum distillate, and is a VOC, or a volatile organic compound. Various compounds are then created based upon other additives.

They described dimethicone as a cylinder shape, like a toilet roll; cyclomethicone as a cylindrical shape like a marble and trimethicone as a combination. Product developers like to use different types to vary feel and performance.

The cosmetic chemists that use silicones, of course like them, they feel great on the skin. Some of the cosmetic chemists, like some of us do not like the effects silicones may have on skin health. The bio chemists saw both sides, and the environmental chemists - you don't want to know what they said! All of them agreed the volatile nature was due to the VOC of the mineral oil and did say the silicone "backbone" of the compound remained.

There are hundreds of combinations. You can pretty much count the number of silicone free product lines in the world on 2 hands, very uncommon. Some people on the board have said they don't use silicone based products. Most of the time when they list all of the ingredients in the many products they are using, they are shocked to find out, they are! - they just didn't know that a particular compound was a silicone base.

Good questions raised tho! Amy

free skin care · Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:01 pm

It all depends on your skin. I don't think cones are harmful in general but too much of them in a product and I break out straight away, especially in sunscreens

free skin care · Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:42 pm

yeah I am a big nutella fan. lol

Well If I know that stuff is not good for my skin, I will stop using it for sure. There is no doubt about it.

Thanks for your useful info. ^^

free skin care · Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:56 am

I've recently switched over all of my skincare to natural, silicone and paraben free products - Zenbiotic, some hydrosols, and Amy's Epidermx. Since then, I've stopped wearing my old makeup because it seems like it would just put me back to square one. Amy - what cosmetics brands do you recommend? I'm primarily interested in just a natural look - light coverage foundation, blush, bronzer. I've been looking into True Cosmetics (a mineral makeup), but I think it has parabens and dimethicone Sad

I've also been looking into Dr. Hauschka, which I'm pretty sure doesn't have those problems, but I'm just hoping they make shades light enough for me . . .

free skin care · Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:47 pm

i think silica is no good for your skin
i think it would clog your pore and make them larger
but sometimes silica is necessary in some products
too difficult for me to choose Rolling Eyes

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