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Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:34 am  |
Barefootgirl
which one did you get from inhouse pharmacy. and if used with retin a, is it mixed together or applied one after the other. I heard if you use a little bit mixed with a moisturised it shuldnt affect hormones, used three times a week. I am peri menoupausal....would that matter. thanks in advance |
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:40 am |
BF posted it's from in house pharmacy.
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
yes, my understanding is that it is absorbed, that's how it works 
Anyway, I have fewer concerns with estriol than I do with other types of estrogen - but I would rather not go the reasons here because it is a complex topic and as I said, controversial, but that said - I would encourage anyone who is interested in this to look at the studies, read the literature and decide for herself
I get mine from the UK - inhouse pharmacy.
BF |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:43 am |
Hi Dark moon,
yes i saw that, but I wanted to know which one as there are seveal estriol type creams/products they sell.  |
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:50 am |
| zizi wrote: |
Hi Dark moon,
yes i saw that, but I wanted to know which one as there are seveal estriol type creams/products they sell. |
Sorry zizi!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:09 am |
I purchased Ovestin, but really need to stress again that people should do their own personal research with respect to hormones and not just follow what others are doing - becuase this is complicated and highly individual.
BF |
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:17 am |
BF
What's your take on the following,
http://www.middle-ageless.com/2009/09/how-estriol-gets-rid-of-wrinkles.html
| DarkMoon wrote: |
This really has me totally confused now, note the part about no systemic absorption concerns? From Antonia's blog.
One reason that facial skin "shrivels" as we age is that our normal hormone production markedly declines. To make matters worse, blood microcirculation to our skin is reduced as we grow older, thereby depriving our skin of the small amount of natural hormones our body still makes.* A large number of published scientific studies reveal that estrogen exerts potent anti-aging effects on the skin*. The topical application of natural estrogen can provide dramatic improvements to the skin without systemic absorption concerns. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:15 pm |
I read that article, it was one of the pieces I used in my own research.
BF |
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:55 pm |
| The Estriol cream my Dr. has me using reads .3% in versabase. It costs about 60$ for about 2oz. Anyone know where I can purchase this cheaper? |
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Too numerous to mention! |
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:01 pm |
| sorry everyone should have read all the previous posts (duh) my question has already been answered!!! Anyway. The other question about using Retin A with it. Dr. has me using Retin A first, waiting a few mins, following with estriol, and when that has soaked in follow with moisturizer. |
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Too numerous to mention! |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:04 am |
| can anyone provide a link of what they think is the best estriol cream?Thanks |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:22 am |
| Toby has a link on page one to Rejuvinate, I think I am going to try that. I have Amazon gift cards. The formulation looks to be about the same as mine 3% (after searching around the net for that info) I'm not sure what versabase is, but I think it may be a bunch of stuff without fragrance or parafin. Anyway, Rejuvinate sounds pretty close to mine. I suspect my Dr. office gets large quantities and re-packages it for resale. It is in a generic container. |
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Too numerous to mention! |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:37 am |
When applied to facial skin, does estrogen ointment have systemic effects?Kainz C, Gitsch G, Stani J, Breitenecker G, Binder M, Schmidt JB.
2nd Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, University of Vienna, School of Medicine, Austria.
Abstract
We examined cytological vaginal smears of 17 women before and after three months of dermal estrogen (1 g of 0.01% estradiol ointment or 0.3% estriol ointment once daily), applied to the face for dermatological indications. The mean age was 57.1 +/- 7.6 years (range from 46 to 66). Seven women had estrogenic smears (more than 10% superficial cells) before therapy. Nine women were treated with 0.01% estradiol ointment and 8 were treated with 0.3% estriol ointment. Both groups had gynecological examinations including cervical and vaginal smears before and after treatment and also monthly measurements of serum follicle-stimulating hormone, prolactin and estradiol levels. Serum hormone levels and the appearance of vaginal smears showed no significant change during treatment.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8215610
Treatment of skin ageing symptoms in perimenopausal females with estrogen compounds. A pilot study.
Schmidt JB, Binder M, Macheiner W, Kainz C, Gitsch G, Bieglmayer C.
Department of Special and Environmental Dermatology, University of Vienna Medical School, Wien, Austria. A wide range of somatic symptoms of the perimenopausal female is due to the decrease of estrogen at that age. Minor attention has been paid hitherto to the involvement of estrogens in female skin ageing symptoms. In our study, the ageing skin of the face of perimenopausal females was treated with a 0.3% estriol cream (8 patients) or with a 0.01% estradiol cream (10 patients) for 6 months. Dermatologic follow-up was performed monthly. At each follow-up venous blood for radioimmuno assay determination of prolactin (PRL), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and estradiol (E2) was sampled. In addition, prior to and after 3 and 6 months of treatment, gynecological examinations for climacteric symptoms, mammary and colposcopic investigations and vaginal smears for cytology were performed. Both treatment groups showed improvement of the various skin ageing symptoms at the end of treatment. The effects of the group treated with topical estriol were slightly superior with regard to their extent and onset. No hormonal side effects were noted either clinically or by hormone monitoring. According to these preliminary results, local estrogen treatment appears to be a promising new approach for the treatment of skin ageing in perimenopausal females. However, for minimizing the risk of systemic hormonal side effects, concentrations and size of application field should be limited.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7877517 |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:42 am |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| I'm not sure what versabase is, but I think it may be a bunch of stuff without fragrance or parafin. |
This is what I could find on Versabase.
Versabase Cream is specially to ensure consistent and effective systemic absorption of the bio-identical progesterone from the cream base. This base represents a refinement of previous bases, improving one again, the cosmetic properties of the base. A non-greasy, readily absorbed cream base that effectively functions as a transdermal vehicle.
The Versabase is apparently only available through Professional Compounding Centers of America. http://www.pccarx.com/default.aspx |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:54 am |
| Thanks for posting that Keliu! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:07 am |
Thanks for posting the link. Usually these studies provide more details on what they consider improvement - i.e. - measurement of wrinkle depth, collagen formation, etc.
There is quite a bit of data out there... Dr. Baumman's latest book has a similar study.
BF |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:19 am |
It'possible to get the estriol in a pure oil base...nothing else added....it might not be so transdermally active that way (systemic) the way Toby's cream is scientifically designed to be..i'm not sure about that though... but just wondering.
it can come that way at compunding pharmaciesan alternative wayof taking it orally..and there's also a company called, i believe, natural radiance, or something like that ..that has it in natural oils primarily for vaginal dryness...but i don't see why it couldn't be used on the face..'ll post the link later in the day. |
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71 years, primarily raw living food 35 years(vegan 45 years) herbal tea decoctions, homeopathy, TCM, facial massage, facial exercises, vacu-lifting, gua aha, shiatsu/acupressure, intention, home microcurrrent |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:21 pm |
| thanks, |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:07 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
When applied to facial skin, does estrogen ointment have systemic effects?
Kainz C, Gitsch G, Stani J, Breitenecker G, Binder M, Schmidt JB.
2nd Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, University of Vienna, School of Medicine, Austria.
Abstract
We examined cytological vaginal smears of 17 women before and after three months of dermal estrogen (1 g of 0.01% estradiol ointment or 0.3% estriol ointment once daily), applied to the face for dermatological indications. The mean age was 57.1 +/- 7.6 years (range from 46 to 66). Seven women had estrogenic smears (more than 10% superficial cells) before therapy. Nine women were treated with 0.01% estradiol ointment and 8 were treated with 0.3% estriol ointment. Both groups had gynecological examinations including cervical and vaginal smears before and after treatment and also monthly measurements of serum follicle-stimulating hormone, prolactin and estradiol levels. Serum hormone levels and the appearance of vaginal smears showed no significant change during treatment. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8215610
Treatment of skin ageing symptoms in perimenopausal females with estrogen compounds. A pilot study.
Schmidt JB, Binder M, Macheiner W, Kainz C, Gitsch G, Bieglmayer C.
Department of Special and Environmental Dermatology, University of Vienna Medical School, Wien, Austria.
Abstract
A wide range of somatic symptoms of the perimenopausal female is due to the decrease of estrogen at that age. Minor attention has been paid hitherto to the involvement of estrogens in female skin ageing symptoms. In our study, the ageing skin of the face of perimenopausal females was treated with a 0.3% estriol cream (8 patients) or with a 0.01% estradiol cream (10 patients) for 6 months. Dermatologic follow-up was performed monthly. At each follow-up venous blood for radioimmuno assay determination of prolactin (PRL), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and estradiol (E2) was sampled. In addition, prior to and after 3 and 6 months of treatment, gynecological examinations for climacteric symptoms, mammary and colposcopic investigations and vaginal smears for cytology were performed. Both treatment groups showed improvement of the various skin ageing symptoms at the end of treatment. The effects of the group treated with topical estriol were slightly superior with regard to their extent and onset. No hormonal side effects were noted either clinically or by hormone monitoring. According to these preliminary results, local estrogen treatment appears to be a promising new approach for the treatment of skin ageing in perimenopausal females. However, for minimizing the risk of systemic hormonal side effects, concentrations and size of application field should be limited.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7877517 |
| Toby wrote: |
| The answer is yes without question....this is from the pharmacist. It would be absorbed on the thin skin of the face, very rapidly. Estroil is used vaginally as well as on other areas of the body for hormone replacement....but never on the breast. |
Isn't this contradictory information? |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:44 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| Isn't this contradictory information? |
I think so Lacy.....hmmmmmm |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:28 pm |
I looked up the ingredients for Natural Radiance and it contains sorbic acid and some oils (seem like essentisl oils) that seem a little unusual..so it's not what i was searching for....but i know that compounding pharmacies can make estriol in oils... like olive oil
i took tri-estrogen, presribed by the naturapathic doc that originally formulated the tri-estrogen concept, for about 6 months 9 years ago..and i took it orally in this form as it was the best for my particular body type at the time... it was in capsules...but the capsuls could be pricked open for facial skincare...and i'm sure ..somewhere on the net...i've seen estriol in pure olive oil not encapsulated..just don't remember where. |
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71 years, primarily raw living food 35 years(vegan 45 years) herbal tea decoctions, homeopathy, TCM, facial massage, facial exercises, vacu-lifting, gua aha, shiatsu/acupressure, intention, home microcurrrent |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:29 pm |
| i thought keliu was showing us some of the contradictory theories/research |
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71 years, primarily raw living food 35 years(vegan 45 years) herbal tea decoctions, homeopathy, TCM, facial massage, facial exercises, vacu-lifting, gua aha, shiatsu/acupressure, intention, home microcurrrent |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:17 pm |
To have any level of effectiveness in improving the condition of the skin, any topical has to be able to at least penetrate the upper layers of skin.
I think the studies are showing whether the topical penetrates deep enough and extensive enough to raise levels in the blood.
This is similar to how we view Retin A and the recommendations to avoid retinoids during pregnancy - hence the reason to make an individual assessment.
BF |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:31 pm |
Interesting note - when I clicked on that link, I saw related study articles on the right hand side of the page and there's one study indicating that a certain progesterone cream was shown to increase skin elasticity.
We seem to have ways to increase collagen, but elasticity (or elastin?) is one that we around here have been hoping for.
BF |
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:46 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
To have any level of effectiveness in improving the condition of the skin, any topical has to be able to at least penetrate the upper layers of skin.
I think the studies are showing whether the topical penetrates deep enough and extensive enough to raise levels in the blood.
This is similar to how we view Retin A and the recommendations to avoid retinoids during pregnancy - hence the reason to make an individual assessment.
BF |
I do believe Toby is using estriol cream for systemic effects? After all, I doubt she is applying it to make changes to her fatty areas of the skin (meaning her thighs). I could be wrong though!
| Toby wrote: |
Since I am on bioidentical hormones now and without doubt am benefiting from the estroil....why let my thighs get the little dab of cream....lets move it to the face, where it is needed!  Thanks to Barefootgirl's trial I tried it. Results...after first night nothing...after second night....a little wow!!!I can tell you that is where some of my estroil cream is going in the future! I realize that these hormone creams are suppose to be put on the fatty parts of the body for slow release reasons but a little on the face surely won't hurt! |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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