Dermarolling for Product Penetration ONLY
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free skin care · Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:49 pm

Jeffiner13 wrote:

I just bought a Leaf and Rusher dermaroller and I have finally read the entire thread based on product penetration which is my main reason for purchasing the roller. I have been on Obagi Nu-derm for almost a year and a half and I also had a Melange peel two months ago for pigmentation caused from the sun. I wouldn't consider myself to have bad acne but I am 26 and I get the occasional break out especially when I am on my period. After reading the threads I have gathered the basic information as to what to do I am still confused as to which products to use. I am aware I need Vit A, C, E before the roll and to incorporate oils after the roll....but what else. Do I wash my face, use toner and then put the serum on and then add the oils?

I was looking at buying the IS clinical Serum that JJ suggested but cannot purchase it on the site. Leaf and Rusher makes a serum as well, any suggestions? I understand not to use my Retina A right after but do I put that on after an hour and then the oils or vice versa? Sorry I am a little confused as to which protocol I should follow and which products (names) I should use. How do I obtain Retinyl Palmitate? Do I use that before or after the roll? Thanks for any help!

Jen

Jen, I think the best all-in-one product for rolling would be the GoW product Chock Full of Vitamins w/Retinyl Palmitate (it contains everything you need for rolling), but the Leaf & Rusher product is a nice one. This is what I do when rolling for product penetration: wash face, lightly swipe face with cotton pad with alcohol on it. Apply what you want to roll in, roll, reapply the product you rolled in. You will feel it more after rolling. I'm assuming you are planning to roll at night since you would like to use retin-a afterward. Apply the retin-a at least an hour after rolling and wait at least 30 minutes to apply an oil such as hempseed oil over it. You may also roll with warm water and THEN apply your product.

If you'd like to roll your daytime products in, just do a very light roll to help them penetrate.

Here is the link to the GOW product: http://www.gardenofwisdom.com/catalog/item/7012656/7422550.htm

You may be able to purchase IS Clinical serums on eBay. They may also be purchased online at http://skincarerx.com/is-clinical.html . I don't know why they are no longer available on EDS. They were for quite some time. HTH! JJ

free skin care · Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:00 pm

I think something that is being overlooked is that while 4-5 times in each direction of the star pattern is a good roll to help the penetration of product, if you are using a 0.5mm roller weekly, you may want to roll 10-15 times in each direction of the star pattern. And if you still don't think you are getting results, press a little harder. These rollers are pretty flexible because we, the users, determine how many times we roll in each direction and how much pressure we use. Stay away from the strong actives such as retin-a, copper peptides and probably LAA until at least an hour has passed. Do not roll with Vitamin C if you are using copper peptides. That said, experiment with amounts of pressure and times rolled in the star pattern. If you are just wanting to push products in, push in any products you like as long as they are not strong actives right at first. We all have different skin and this is where discovering what is best for your individual skin comes in. I had a peel, and have taken a week off rolling, so when I roll again in the next few days, I will do an aggressive roll (for me at least, 15 times and medium pressure) and let you all know what happens. HTH! ~ JJ

free skin care · Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:52 pm

Okay now I'm really confused...was googling copper peptides vs. just peptides to see what the difference was(I use Jan Marini's peptide extreme and nowhere does it mention being a copper peptide, so wondering if its ok to use after rolling) and I came accross this site:
www.reverseskinaging.com

On the right side of the home page is a link to needling and they recommend rolling in a copper peptide and aha!!!(There is a graphic about how to do it).

Now this is for scar reduction on the face, so maybe that is the difference, but the before and after pics are impressive.

I'm just really confused about what is ok to roll in and what isn't. I know we all have different skin so there's no easy answers or hard and fast rules(I wish there were) BUT when you read don't do this and then another site says do this....UGH!

I'm hoping some of you more knowledgeable gals will look at that site and shed some light!

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:21 am

loribar wrote:

www.reverseskinaging.com

On the right side of the home page is a link to needling and they recommend rolling in a copper peptide and aha!!!(There is a graphic about how to do it).

Now this is for scar reduction on the face, so maybe that is the difference, but the before and after pics are impressive.

I'm just really confused about what is ok to roll in and what isn't.

Thought I would bring up this great post by josee regarding rolling "in" AHA's. Please don't do that to your face.

Josee wrote:

I don't know who is using glycolic acid with Dermaroller and I don't know why/how is that they're using it.

However, I do know that you should not get glycolic acid deeper on the skin!

Glycolic acid is a strong irritant. The outermost cells of the skin are bound together by certain lipis. Glycolic acid is used to "loosen" the binding. In this way, dead cells will descamate (hence the exfoliating action). By exfoliating, your skin will be "thinner" (hence the appearance of wrinkles is lessened) and smoother.
In addition, by increasing cell turnover, you might get rid of hyperpigmentation spots.

So... for all these reasons... glycolic acid is meant to be applied to the superficial EPIDERMIS, not deeply.

If you apply glycolic acid after dermarolling, all you will do is generate a greater inflammation, which is not good because it will hinder your reparation process, which is needed for the collagen deposition.

If you apply glycolic acid before dermarolling you will be "thinnig" your skin thus the needles might penetrate a little more deeply. But again, since glycolic acid is an irritant, irritating the skin with glycolic acid + dermaroller is not a good idea since it will increase the inflammation process.

You could apply glycolic acid regularly just to increase cell turnover and help with pigmentation, uneven texture, etc.

If anyone applied glycolic acid right AFTER dermarolling and reported good results... it's not because of the glycolic acid but DESPITE it. And again, when reporting results, you should look at people who haven't dermarolled for at least 1 month since before that, they could be looking better due to inflammation.

HTH!

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:01 am

loribar wrote:

Okay now I'm really confused...was googling copper peptides vs. just peptides to see what the difference was(I use Jan Marini's peptide extreme and nowhere does it mention being a copper peptide, so wondering if its ok to use after rolling) and I came accross this site:
www.reverseskinaging.com

On the right side of the home page is a link to needling and they recommend rolling in a copper peptide and aha!!!(There is a graphic about how to do it).

Now this is for scar reduction on the face, so maybe that is the difference, but the before and after pics are impressive.

I'm just really confused about what is ok to roll in and what isn't. I know we all have different skin so there's no easy answers or hard and fast rules(I wish there were) BUT when you read don't do this and then another site says do this....UGH!

I'm hoping some of you more knowledgeable gals will look at that site and shed some light!

LB, your Jan Marini product does not contain copper peptides.

Dr. Loren Pickart, the inventor of GHK copper peptides, recommends waiting one hour after rolling before applying CP's. I read his recommendation and more of his comments regarding this subject, and I believe he recommended waiting because of the possibility of developing that deep internal itch that CP's can cause. I have recently used his new product, Skin Signals, and waited only 30 minutes after rolling to apply it and had no reaction except a soothing feeling. However, when I have rolled in a first generation CP such as Neutrogena Visibly Firm Lift Serum, I did have a bit of the deep itchy feeling.

Dr. Philippa McCaffery is an associate of Dr. Pickart (reverseskinaging.com is another Dr. Pickart website), so I would think she is aware of his wait time recommendation. However, in the graphic, she definitely recommends applying the CP's and then rolling them in. I found it interesting that for the face, she recommends a 0.3mm roller. Perhaps with the shorter needles, the chance of the itch response is less and Dr. Pickart may have been referring to needling with the longer needles.

It's fine to roll in CP's if you know how your skin will react. Just do a patch test on a small area first to determine this. HTH!! ~ JJ

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:10 am

rileygirl wrote:

loribar wrote:

www.reverseskinaging.com

On the right side of the home page is a link to needling and they recommend rolling in a copper peptide and aha!!!(There is a graphic about how to do it).

Now this is for scar reduction on the face, so maybe that is the difference, but the before and after pics are impressive.

I'm just really confused about what is ok to roll in and what isn't.

Thought I would bring up this great post by josee regarding rolling "in" AHA's. Please don't do that to your face.

Josee wrote:

I don't know who is using glycolic acid with Dermaroller and I don't know why/how is that they're using it.

However, I do know that you should not get glycolic acid deeper on the skin!

Glycolic acid is a strong irritant. The outermost cells of the skin are bound together by certain lipis. Glycolic acid is used to "loosen" the binding. In this way, dead cells will descamate (hence the exfoliating action). By exfoliating, your skin will be "thinner" (hence the appearance of wrinkles is lessened) and smoother.
In addition, by increasing cell turnover, you might get rid of hyperpigmentation spots.

So... for all these reasons... glycolic acid is meant to be applied to the superficial EPIDERMIS, not deeply.

If you apply glycolic acid after dermarolling, all you will do is generate a greater inflammation, which is not good because it will hinder your reparation process, which is needed for the collagen deposition.

If you apply glycolic acid before dermarolling you will be "thinnig" your skin thus the needles might penetrate a little more deeply. But again, since glycolic acid is an irritant, irritating the skin with glycolic acid + dermaroller is not a good idea since it will increase the inflammation process.

You could apply glycolic acid regularly just to increase cell turnover and help with pigmentation, uneven texture, etc.

If anyone applied glycolic acid right AFTER dermarolling and reported good results... it's not because of the glycolic acid but DESPITE it. And again, when reporting results, you should look at people who haven't dermarolled for at least 1 month since before that, they could be looking better due to inflammation.

HTH!

Riley, that IS a great post! I saw the graphic where Dr. McCafferey recommended applying an AHA and then rolling it in. I believe that she was suggesting this only in the case of bad scarring, and I would hope she does not mean a high percentage glycolic be rolled in!! She just calls it "AHA" and notes that one should never roll in AHA's and CP's on the same day. Regardless, I shudder to think of it!!!! I would never dream of rolling an acid into my skin (other than the gentle "acids" such as hyaluronic, alpha lipoic, etc.). ~ JJ

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:45 am

Thanks JJ for the help. What type of CP would you recommend? I am a little unsure as to what I should be using. I am 26 and my Dr. has prescribed Retin A which I have been using for over a year now. But I am curious about the CP's now. I went to the GoW website and I am making a purchase this afternoon. The chock full of vitamins is certaintly a LOT cheaper than the Leaf and Rusher.

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:51 am

gosh, I really can't think of one good reason to roll an acid into the deeper layers of skin.

Acids are intended to penetrate/destroy the upper layers.

Rolling is designed to allow other actives to get into the lower skin layers -

- two totally different actions, in my opinion.

BF

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:32 am

Maybe a little research about what you roll in before would be a wise choice.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-glycolic-acid.htm

Most consumers know glycolic acid not from its industrial uses, but from its cosmetic ones. Glycolic acid is generally used as a natural skin exfoliant and moisturizer, although there is much debate over its safety and effectiveness. Some proponents of glycolic acid suggest that products with a glycolic acid concentrations of less than 10% are practically useless. The problem is that many large-scale cosmetic producers will not increase the glycolic acid levels for fear of liability and class action lawsuits. Some smaller cosmetics companies with high-end clients do offer products with at least a 10% glycolic acid concentration.

Glycolic acid works as an exfoliating agent because of its high acidity but easy solubility. When placed on the skin as part of an exfoliating cream or gel, glycolic acid goes under the damaged upper layers of skin and destroys the 'glue' which holds dead skin to the surface. As this dead skin is chemically burned off, the other ingredients carry the individual flakes away and a water rinse neutralizes the remaining acidacidacid. The result is a much-smoother skin surface and a more youthful appearance. A secondary benefit is glycolic acid's ability to draw moisturizers into the newly-exfoliated skin surface. This is why cosmetic counters often sell a complete system of skin care; the rest of the alpha-hydroxy line contains moisturizers and neutralizers to counteract the corrosive actions of glycolic acid.

Cosmetic exfoliants and moisturizers containing glycolic acid may leave the user's skin especially sensitive to the sun, so many skin care experts recommend using a sunscreen after exfoliating with glycolic acid. If a 10% concentration of glycolic acid can cause concern over skin damage, another use may be even more controversial. Some customers seeking a more complete exfoliation may opt for a chemical peel. In general, a chemical peel involves a careful scrubbing of the skin followed by an application of a powerful AHA such as glycolic acid. Concentration levels of glycolic acid in chemical peels can be as high as 50% or more. Even industrial suppliers of glycolic acid limit their concentration to 70%, so this is indeed a very powerful chemical process.

Quite often after a chemical peel, a patient's skin will look as if it were extremely sunburned. Several days of recovery are often necessary for a complete recovery from a glycolic acid peel. Proponents of glycolic acid say that the process may appear dangerous or unsightly, but the results are worth the temporary discomfort.

JMHO
DM

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:10 am

Ok,

I went online and I purchased the IS Clinical Pro Heal Advance + (found it on Ebay) and then I went to GoW and purchased the Chock full of Vitamins you suggested along with jojoba, avocado, red palm, rosehip, wheat germ, hempseed, Oat Beta and pearl Powder (I read in the thread earlier you used this and it intrigued me)

How do I combine these to make my after roll oil....just a dap of this and that in my hand?

I appreciate the help. How should I apply the IS Clinical and Retin A with all this too?

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:14 am

Jeffiner13 wrote:

Thanks JJ for the help. What type of CP would you recommend? I am a little unsure as to what I should be using. I am 26 and my Dr. has prescribed Retin A which I have been using for over a year now. But I am curious about the CP's now. I went to the GoW website and I am making a purchase this afternoon. The chock full of vitamins is certaintly a LOT cheaper than the Leaf and Rusher.

Jen, what are your skin issues? If you have scarring or pitting, I could see using CP's at such a young age. Otherwise, I would wait to use them on any future aging issues you might have.

I've used Super CP Serum, and now (off and on) use Skin Signals and Exfol Serum. Those are the Skin Biology products I can tell you about. The two CP serums I have used are known as "second generation" CP's. I was so-so about Super CP serum, which I used with a series of glycolic acid peels. However, I really like the combination of Exfol Serum and Skin Signals. I'm very glad I tried this new product.

All published studies were actually done on Dr. Pickart's "first generation" CP's. The parting of the ways between Dr. Pickart and ProCyte may have been the classic story of the genius founder whose company grows so big that he is gradually pushed aside by new management with a different vision. Those "first generation" peptides can be found in Neutrogena Visibly Firm products, as well as the ProCyte (Neova and other products) and Simple Solutions product lines.

All "second generation" products were created later by Dr. Pickart who is quoted as saying, "After testing about 200 different copper complexes, I found a special fraction of peptides from soy proteins that possesses remarkable skin regeneration properties." Skin Biology is currently patenting and test marketing various products built around this second, more effective [their words] generation of copper peptides.

I don't know whether the second generation is more effective or not. But I do know that I like copper peptides' firming abilities. Many people do not and have actually had MORE sagging or wrinkling as a side effect of CP use. So I would research this carefully and for quite a while before using CP's at the age of 26.

SkinBiology offers the first generation CP's in its GHK products. Here is a link to a chart explaining Skin Biology's recommendations for different skin types: http://www.skinbiology.com/skinrenewalmethods.html . Also, try searching "copper peptides" here on EDS. I am fairly sure there are threads relating to more of the products than I'm familiar with.

Glad you found the GoW product. I don't have that one yet, but it's next on my list. Very Happy

HTH! ~ JJ

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:29 am

Jeffiner13 wrote:

Ok,

I went online and I purchased the IS Clinical Pro Heal Advance + (found it on Ebay) and then I went to GoW and purchased the Chock full of Vitamins you suggested along with jojoba, avocado, red palm, rosehip, wheat germ, hempseed, Oat Beta and pearl Powder (I read in the thread earlier you used this and it intrigued me)

How do I combine these to make my after roll oil....just a dap of this and that in my hand?

I appreciate the help. How should I apply the IS Clinical and Retin A with all this too?

Wow!!! I would say you're set for quite a while, girl! Laughing

Okay, of all your oils, the best to actually roll in is the red palm, because of its extremely high Vitamin A content. You can make your GoW product go a long way by mixing these two items half and half (Chock Full of Vitamins and red palm oil) in your palm. I would apply, roll in, and reapply. The IS Clinical Pro-Heal Serum is one of my favorite products, but it is STRONG. So start off lightly with this one, and let your skin get used to it. Do a patch test, or you might mix with an oil in your palm at first to get your skin acclimated to it.

One of the best moisturizers I've ever used is hempseed oil. It's the only thing I use over retin-a that has ever alleviated redness and flakiness on me. I love, love, love rosehip oil (nature's retinol they call it). Avocado oil and Oat Beta Glucans (you bought the liquid Oat B/G's from GoW, correct?) make a luxurious penetrating moisturizer that will push other actives in or is lovely on its own. Pearl powder is full of amino acids, which is basically what collagen is composed of. I believe it "feeds" the skin. I use pearl powder in a few different ways, and the way you will use it depends on which pearl powder you bought. GoW sells 2-3 different ones. So please post back with a link to the pearl powder you bought and I'll tell you how I would mix it up.

I only wish I had been as "skin savvy" at 26 as you are. I had no idea what I was doing, but was fortunate enough to get on and stay on the Erno Laszlo skin sytem at that age. ~ JJ

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:40 am

DarkMoon wrote:

Maybe a little research about what you roll in before would be a wise choice.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-glycolic-acid.htm

Most consumers know glycolic acid not from its industrial uses, but from its cosmetic ones. Glycolic acid is generally used as a natural skin exfoliant and moisturizer, although there is much debate over its safety and effectiveness. Some proponents of glycolic acid suggest that products with a glycolic acid concentrations of less than 10% are practically useless. The problem is that many large-scale cosmetic producers will not increase the glycolic acid levels for fear of liability and class action lawsuits. Some smaller cosmetics companies with high-end clients do offer products with at least a 10% glycolic acid concentration.

Glycolic acid works as an exfoliating agent because of its high acidity but easy solubility. When placed on the skin as part of an exfoliating cream or gel, glycolic acid goes under the damaged upper layers of skin and destroys the 'glue' which holds dead skin to the surface. As this dead skin is chemically burned off, the other ingredients carry the individual flakes away and a water rinse neutralizes the remaining acidacidacid. The result is a much-smoother skin surface and a more youthful appearance. A secondary benefit is glycolic acid's ability to draw moisturizers into the newly-exfoliated skin surface. This is why cosmetic counters often sell a complete system of skin care; the rest of the alpha-hydroxy line contains moisturizers and neutralizers to counteract the corrosive actions of glycolic acid.

Cosmetic exfoliants and moisturizers containing glycolic acid may leave the user's skin especially sensitive to the sun, so many skin care experts recommend using a sunscreen after exfoliating with glycolic acid. If a 10% concentration of glycolic acid can cause concern over skin damage, another use may be even more controversial. Some customers seeking a more complete exfoliation may opt for a chemical peel. In general, a chemical peel involves a careful scrubbing of the skin followed by an application of a powerful AHA such as glycolic acid. Concentration levels of glycolic acid in chemical peels can be as high as 50% or more. Even industrial suppliers of glycolic acid limit their concentration to 70%, so this is indeed a very powerful chemical process.

Quite often after a chemical peel, a patient's skin will look as if it were extremely sunburned. Several days of recovery are often necessary for a complete recovery from a glycolic acid peel. Proponents of glycolic acid say that the process may appear dangerous or unsightly, but the results are worth the temporary discomfort.

JMHO
DM

Dark Moon, this is a great article. Glycolics are ACIDS and should be treated as such. I have had glycolic peels at my doctor's clinic and I've done them at home. When I first wanted to do them, I had fairly fragile skin and was put on Obagi's NuDerm system for two years before my doctor would even consider doing any type of peel. I had several series of 8 weekly peels at my dr.'s office over the course of 18 months. Then I slowly did my own series at home, working up from 30% GA to 40% GA, and finally to 50% GA which I left on for only 3 minutes at a time. I never had any downtime as described in the article above, either when having the peels done by my doctor or doing them myself, but I was extremely careful. I am currently not doing any glycolic peels, as I feel this is a once-in-a-while procedure only. And I certainly would not use glycolic peels while rolling. Not even in the same week that I roll! Thanks for another excellent article. ~ JJ

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:43 am

Barefootgirl wrote:

gosh, I really can't think of one good reason to roll an acid into the deeper layers of skin.

Acids are intended to penetrate/destroy the upper layers.

Rolling is designed to allow other actives to get into the lower skin layers -

- two totally different actions, in my opinion.

BF

BF, I'm with you 100% on this. Eeeek! Just the thought of it hurts. I think that would be very harmful to the skin aside from being sheer agony. ~ JJ

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:59 am

jjbeacham wrote:

Jeffiner13 wrote:

Ok,

I went online and I purchased the IS Clinical Pro Heal Advance + (found it on Ebay) and then I went to GoW and purchased the Chock full of Vitamins you suggested along with jojoba, avocado, red palm, rosehip, wheat germ, hempseed, Oat Beta and pearl Powder (I read in the thread earlier you used this and it intrigued me)

How do I combine these to make my after roll oil....just a dap of this and that in my hand?

I appreciate the help. How should I apply the IS Clinical and Retin A with all this too?

Wow!!! I would say you're set for quite a while, girl! Laughing

Okay, of all your oils, the best to actually roll in is the red palm, because of its extremely high Vitamin A content. You can make your GoW product go a long way by mixing these two items half and half (Chock Full of Vitamins and red palm oil) in your palm. I would apply, roll in, and reapply. The IS Clinical Pro-Heal Serum is one of my favorite products, but it is STRONG. So start off lightly with this one, and let your skin get used to it. Do a patch test, or you might mix with an oil in your palm at first to get your skin acclimated to it.

One of the best moisturizers I've ever used is hempseed oil. It's the only thing I use over retin-a that has ever alleviated redness and flakiness on me. I love, love, love rosehip oil (nature's retinol they call it). Avocado oil and Oat Beta Glucans (you bought the liquid Oat B/G's from GoW, correct?) make a luxurious penetrating moisturizer that will push other actives in or is lovely on its own. Pearl powder is full of amino acids, which is basically what collagen is composed of. I believe it "feeds" the skin. I use pearl powder in a few different ways, and the way you will use it depends on which pearl powder you bought. GoW sells 2-3 different ones. So please post back with a link to the pearl powder you bought and I'll tell you how I would mix it up.

I only wish I had been as "skin savvy" at 26 as you are. I had no idea what I was doing, but was fortunate enough to get on and stay on the Erno Laszlo skin sytem at that age. ~ JJ

Well Thanks!!

I have always taken an interest to make sure that I use the right stuff and protect my face expecially after the last two years of severe sun damage/stupidity (I liked tanning oil) Shock

I bought the super fine powder pearl and the liquid oat beta. I would have to say that my skin issues are mild acne (but cystic ones sometimes) and pigmentation and damage from the sun but I believe that I have taken care of most of that with Obagi Nu Derm and I had a Melange peel which worked wonders. My problem is from picking at my face and getting red spots. Which I believe can be treated with rolling and retina use. I will not venture into the CP's just yet as I am too yougn for this. Thank you so much for your help.

Do I use the IS after the roll or to roll in? I wasn't sure.

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:25 pm

Jeffiner13 wrote:

Well Thanks!!

I have always taken an interest to make sure that I use the right stuff and protect my face expecially after the last two years of severe sun damage/stupidity (I liked tanning oil) Shock

I bought the super fine powder pearl and the liquid oat beta. I would have to say that my skin issues are mild acne (but cystic ones sometimes) and pigmentation and damage from the sun but I believe that I have taken care of most of that with Obagi Nu Derm and I had a Melange peel which worked wonders. My problem is from picking at my face and getting red spots. Which I believe can be treated with rolling and retina use. I will not venture into the CP's just yet as I am too yougn for this. Thank you so much for your help.

Do I use the IS after the roll or to roll in? I wasn't sure.

I like the IS Clinical ProHeal put on immediately post-rolling, but it's strong, so why don't you start with applying it 15 minutes after you roll and then go down in minutes until your skin is acclimated to it? A little stinging with this product is normal; a lot means back off. Also, something great and soothing to use on top of it is 1/2 emu or hempseed oil and 1/2 hyaluronic acid serum, mixed in your palm. It feels so good and pushes the actives in.

I forgot to answer you about the pearl powder earlier. My favorite way to use this is to take a small bottle and add 1/4 teaspoon pearl powder to 2 tablespoon of water. Shake well and refrigerate. I use it as a toner, to roll, to apply on top of oils, lots of things. You can also make a really great cream by mixing some of the pearl powder in the Oat Beta Glucans until the pearl powder is dissolved, then add this to creams either in your hand or all at once to some base cream. The exact recipe is somewhere on this forum, and if you need for me to, I can look it up for you. I also make a pearl powder cream that is jampacked with assorted peptides and alpha lipoic acid. The thing to remember about pearl powder is that a little goes a long way, and it is a mattifier. So if you have oily or slightly oily skin, you're going to love this stuff. ~ JJ

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:53 am

Hello everyone!
I'm back from hols and catching up on all the info.... you've been busy!

Just as a sideline, I took my 0.5mm roller away with me and discovered something.

I read a thread about lip plumping called "Eureka...I've found the ultimate lip plumper" - my lips are good but a girl can't have too plump lips.

So I bought the Source Natural hyaluronic acid supps that supposedly do wonders. I measured my lips before and after one month measured them again but no difference.

However, does anyone else use their shorter rollers on their lips? Have you seen the difference it makes??!
I don't press hard but enough to make them tingle and I don't add any product.

Back to prod pene, whilst away I was doing light 0.5 rolls twice a week with no product. No redness after 30 mins and maybe without a product, was a waste of time but there was usually a feeling of tightness of skin (swelling?). I was also dry brushing face every morning. Skin felt thicker after two weeks.
I did a 1.5mm roll yesterday (not too heavy handed though, only a few blood spots, I do this once every 5 weeks) and added the Retinol Acetate that came free with my roller and LOVED the immediate effect. No stinging, no redness, no peeling and skin was plump after for 24 hours (slight swelling I guess). A very different experience from using Retin A. Smile

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 am

This is Miranda wrote:

However, does anyone else use their shorter rollers on their lips? Have you seen the difference it makes??!
I don't press hard but enough to make them tingle and I don't add any product.

I have read that you should not use the dermaroller on your lip, as it may trigger an outbreak of herpes virus. (That said, I have used the dermaroller on my lips without problems - the smallest size roller only.)

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:34 am

rileygirl wrote:

This is Miranda wrote:

However, does anyone else use their shorter rollers on their lips? Have you seen the difference it makes??!
I don't press hard but enough to make them tingle and I don't add any product.

I have read that you should not use the dermaroller on your lip, as it may trigger an outbreak of herpes virus. (That said, I have used the dermaroller on my lips without problems - the smallest size roller only.)

I would have to say that would only apply to those that have the herpes or cold sore virus on their lips. The rolling may help to spread the infection and you would not want to then roll it all over your face. Plus rolling could cause dryness or some sort of reaction that could cause an outbreak. I get cold sores from time to time and I would wait before everything was healed and gone before rolling.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:36 am

jjbeacham wrote:

Jeffiner13 wrote:

Well Thanks!!

I have always taken an interest to make sure that I use the right stuff and protect my face expecially after the last two years of severe sun damage/stupidity (I liked tanning oil) Shock

I bought the super fine powder pearl and the liquid oat beta. I would have to say that my skin issues are mild acne (but cystic ones sometimes) and pigmentation and damage from the sun but I believe that I have taken care of most of that with Obagi Nu Derm and I had a Melange peel which worked wonders. My problem is from picking at my face and getting red spots. Which I believe can be treated with rolling and retina use. I will not venture into the CP's just yet as I am too yougn for this. Thank you so much for your help.

Do I use the IS after the roll or to roll in? I wasn't sure.

I like the IS Clinical ProHeal put on immediately post-rolling, but it's strong, so why don't you start with applying it 15 minutes after you roll and then go down in minutes until your skin is acclimated to it? A little stinging with this product is normal; a lot means back off. Also, something great and soothing to use on top of it is 1/2 emu or hempseed oil and 1/2 hyaluronic acid serum, mixed in your palm. It feels so good and pushes the actives in.

I forgot to answer you about the pearl powder earlier. My favorite way to use this is to take a small bottle and add 1/4 teaspoon pearl powder to 2 tablespoon of water. Shake well and refrigerate. I use it as a toner, to roll, to apply on top of oils, lots of things. You can also make a really great cream by mixing some of the pearl powder in the Oat Beta Glucans until the pearl powder is dissolved, then add this to creams either in your hand or all at once to some base cream. The exact recipe is somewhere on this forum, and if you need for me to, I can look it up for you. I also make a pearl powder cream that is jampacked with assorted peptides and alpha lipoic acid. The thing to remember about pearl powder is that a little goes a long way, and it is a mattifier. So if you have oily or slightly oily skin, you're going to love this stuff. ~ JJ

I am so excited to try all those things with the pearl pwowder. You have been a great help to me. I will let you know the progress of things once I get my products and start this adventure.

Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:32 am

This is Miranda wrote:

Hello everyone!
I'm back from hols and catching up on all the info.... you've been busy!

Just as a sideline, I took my 0.5mm roller away with me and discovered something.

I read a thread about lip plumping called "Eureka...I've found the ultimate lip plumper" - my lips are good but a girl can't have too plump lips.

So I bought the Source Natural hyaluronic acid supps that supposedly do wonders. I measured my lips before and after one month measured them again but no difference.

However, does anyone else use their shorter rollers on their lips? Have you seen the difference it makes??!
I don't press hard but enough to make them tingle and I don't add any product.

Back to prod pene, whilst away I was doing light 0.5 rolls twice a week with no product. No redness after 30 mins and maybe without a product, was a waste of time but there was usually a feeling of tightness of skin (swelling?). I was also dry brushing face every morning. Skin felt thicker after two weeks.
I did a 1.5mm roll yesterday (not too heavy handed though, only a few blood spots, I do this once every 5 weeks) and added the Retinol Acetate that came free with my roller and LOVED the immediate effect. No stinging, no redness, no peeling and skin was plump after for 24 hours (slight swelling I guess). A very different experience from using Retin A. Smile

Hi, Miranda! It's great to have you back! I hope your holidays were wonderful. Does the Source Naturals contain Bio-Cell Collagen as well as hyaluronic acid? I'm taking Hydraplenish by Nature's Way, which does contain both, but I still can't see a major difference. I didn't measure them.

I have rolled my lips with my 0.2mm roller. When finished, I applied a little emu oil mixed with liquid hyaluronic acid. Now this DOES make a difference. If I am going to roll my lips, I am going to apply hyaluronic acid to them. That just makes sense to me. I would not do this all the time, as it is supposed to be capable of triggering cold sores. However, virtually the only time I've had cold sores is when I actually have fever. The rolling didn't cause one to appear. I have had retin-a cause them, however. So I made a little potion to get rid of them before they actually appear, when still in the "tingle" stage: In distilled water, I mix 2-3 capsules of Grapefruit Seed extract (powder poured from the gel cap) with 2-3 capsules of MSM and shake well. Just a small 2-oz bottle that I keep refrigerated, but it makes them go away immediately. I put Castor Oil on top and sleep in it and when I wake up, they're gone! The Grapefruit Seed Extract/MSM water is also very good for calming the skin when you have hives or redness.

It sounds like you are getting a great immediate result with your 1.5 roller. I love that plumpness afterward! I am soooo happy for you that your skin is thickening up. Rolling I'm sure has an impact; I know without a doubt that the drybrushing is working for you. I know how long you have worked on your skin after that doctor thinned it out, and I'm sure you're thrilled. Good going, Miranda!! ~ JJ

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:35 am

Jeffiner13 wrote:

I am so excited to try all those things with the pearl pwowder. You have been a great help to me. I will let you know the progress of things once I get my products and start this adventure.

Very Happy

Jen, it is an adventure isn't it? So exciting and lots of fun! Your skin will feel very pampered. Best of luck to you, and keep us updated, please ~ JJ

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:37 am

rileygirl wrote:

This is Miranda wrote:

However, does anyone else use their shorter rollers on their lips? Have you seen the difference it makes??!
I don't press hard but enough to make them tingle and I don't add any product.

I have read that you should not use the dermaroller on your lip, as it may trigger an outbreak of herpes virus. (That said, I have used the dermaroller on my lips without problems - the smallest size roller only.)

Well Riley, this made me laugh out loud. I'm sure every one of us has read not to roll the lips, and at least half of us have probably tried it anyway. This is certainly an adventurous group!!! Laughing

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:45 am

Jeffiner13 wrote:

I would have to say that would only apply to those that have the herpes or cold sore virus on their lips. The rolling may help to spread the infection and you would not want to then roll it all over your face. Plus rolling could cause dryness or some sort of reaction that could cause an outbreak. I get cold sores from time to time and I would wait before everything was healed and gone before rolling.

No, I do not agree, Jeffiner. The virus may be dormant, and a person may not know they have it.

ETA: This is from the Nova Clinic site, but this same information is in the long dermaroller thread.

"Q. What about facial warts or cold sores and using the derma roller?
A. If you have any type of herpes virus dormant or otherwise you cannot use the dermaroller or derma stamp on that area. When treating above lip lines, if you have suffered from herpes complex (cold sores) in the past, make sure the dermaroller does not touch the lips or the cold sores will flare again. Facial warts if dormant may not flair when using the dermaroller but it is not worth the risk".

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:47 am

jjbeacham wrote:

Well Riley, this made me laugh out loud. I'm sure every one of us has read not to roll the lips, and at least half of us have probably tried it anyway. This is certainly an adventurous group!!! Laughing

Glad to give you a laugh, JJ! Very Happy

We are all adults here and are going to do what we choose to ourselves. However, I do believe that the information needs to be put out there for everyone to make their on informed decision!

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