Another Gadget, TriPollar STOP
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free skin care · Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:43 pm

Mpstat,
Didn't we see information about clinical trials done before it was released that could be viewed?

Mountaingirl,
Some may consider a downside the fact that there will have to be maintenance. But you can't retain facial lift from exercises without maintenance and even a face lift is only good for a period of time.

Just my general thoughts and observation:
I think the Stop gives you a great look following a treatment, kinda of like a wrinkled shirt that has been ironed Laughing

That will last a day or two(can vary from person to person) then you might lose some of it but then it is time for another treatment. This probably goes on through your treatment phase. Hopefully by the time you finish the initial treatment time the collagen has built up to a point to maintain the firmer skin provided you continue the maintenance.
Toby

free skin care · Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:50 pm

Toby wrote:

Mpstat,
Didn't we see information about clinical trials done before it was released that could be viewed? ...

Sure we did. My comment was more that there are no long term Stop users that are members of this board that can post on their experience. I did not mean the technology in general, or clinical studies. Sorry if I confused anyone...

free skin care · Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:26 pm

Thanks, Mpstat for carifying the above. It was clear to me but if others haven't researched the information this will help them.

mountaingirl wrote:

YOU GUYS ARE MAKIN' ME FRIGGIN' CRAZY! I am really REALLY scared of this one 'cause it just sounds too good to be true, and there must be a down side somewhere....and I worry that it's down the road. I don't want to be a canary in this coalmine, but if you keep dangling your beautiful faces and fabulous reports in front of me, I'm going to break down and buy yet ANOTHER gadget. Ok...I have had disappointing results from Dermarolling, nothing from my DPL unit (which admittedly, I used inconsistently) and nothing yet after 3wks of facial exercises. I think my face is also plastic surgery-resistant, as in every procedure, something has gone wrong. I am on the edge of my seat, chomping at the bit, but I know my luck ain't great, so do I dare dive into this fairly untested beauty pool? or wait and see if anyone drowns first??? How can you know there won't be fat loss, or dimpling, or some other weird disfiguration coming down the pike?? Does anyone know ANYONE who has used it for more than a year??

Mountaingirl,
I appreciate your concern and I think you are very wise to think through the long term, as we all should. For me, I spent 15 years worrying about the long term effect of facial exercising and had to programs to use, but was afraid of causing problems with my face by pulling and tugging. I now know, I lost some time that I could have better prepared my skin for my 50's and many years from now. As far as the Stop, it is radio waves and we know thermage is radio waves. Would I have thermage now? No, and I did have it years ago. The machines used for thermage and the procedure itself, is very different. Thermage requires sedation for most people, and is very painful. Stop on the other hand is way toned down in power and the treatment is very plasant and controlled. I am trusting that it wouldn't be available to the general public if there were danger of damage to skin tissue to places that is being sold( in the UK, Scotland,France, or Israel). I have been amazed at how strict standards in the UK are about some devices. So with that said, should we think about long range? Certainly, but from everything I have heard and read I am very comfortable with using the Stop device. For those on the fence we Stop users are willing and able guinea pigs and hopefully will give you as honest a review as possible. Time will tell how much the Stop stops aging Laughing

It is always good to question.
Toby

Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:11 pm

So for someone who has not bought a LED light yet but about ready to purchase and can not afford both a LED and STOP at this point which should be the first purchase? I am concerned with anti-aging.

free skin care · Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:37 pm

I found this study, done on Asian patients:
http://www.pollogen.com/int/pdf/Dr%20Kim's%20TriPollar%20&%20Asian%20Skin%20Wht%20Paper%20NOV%2016.pdf

I'm, not sure if this video about STOP has been posted yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRCoUNBEzxQ&feature=related

Anyway, eventhough the doctor says that radiofrequency is a misleading term, it still doesn't make me trust it completely, but the raves were enough to make me buy it Rolling Eyes

I was thinking, if RF isn't really what the device does, then why do they use this term? They know it alarms certain people by making associations with xrays and cancer, whether justified or not. For marketing purposes, it isn't really a smart move.

I have done 3 treatments so far, but no results as of yet.

The weird thing is that, the first 2 times I used it, I never saw the orange indicator light up, but the green light did switch off after 15 minutes. The last time I used it, I did see the orange light, but like way too late and the green light didn't went off on it's own anymore, though at a certain point it started to flicker.. Neutral

Tomorrow my 4th treatment, I remain positive! Smile

free skin care · Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:24 pm

Here is another study on long term results I just found with skin tightening and lifting using Tripollar technology...not certain if this was linked yet, if it was sorry!
http://www.pollogen.com/int/treatments.html#WhitePapers

Take note of the stomach before shot on the bottom of that page, just above the article I am referring to...if you knew me, you would think I posed for that picture!! Laughing

Seriously, I thought someone hijacked my photo album cause that is a dead ringer for mine (and I aint lying here ladies, total blunt honesty!!!) ha ha ha....I tell ya, if I were afraid to use this STOP on my face (which I am not, just to let you know Wink

) I would totally buy this baby just to see if it worked on my stomach!! Who cares if it obliterated my fatty cells down there!! Bad Grin

can't be any worse than it is now....

now you all know my deepest darkest secret!!! shhhhhh....... Anxious

free skin care · Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:26 pm

slh wrote:

So for someone who has not bought a LED light yet but about ready to purchase and can not afford both a LED and STOP at this point which should be the first purchase? I am concerned with anti-aging.

What are your primary issues? (JUST anti-aging in general?)

How old are you?

Beth's Point of View (and everyone else will have their own as well...mine is based on my own personal experiences with actives, dermarolling, LEDs and soon to be STOP):

If you are young and have no aging issues yet, I would not buy either, and spend the money on better actives and Ageless.

If you have sagging, then you want to buy the STOP and Ageless facial exercises.

I don't personally recommend LEDs anymore (though I own 2), but people here have had good results with skin texture improvement.

If you have hyperpigmentation, I think actives are a far better bet than LED, and STOP won't help that at all.

If you have acne scars, I would get a dermaroller and skip both the LED and the STOP.

Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:14 pm

bethany wrote:

slh wrote:

So for someone who has not bought a LED light yet but about ready to purchase and can not afford both a LED and STOP at this point which should be the first purchase? I am concerned with anti-aging.

What are your primary issues? (JUST anti-aging in general?)

How old are you?

Beth's Point of View (and everyone else will have their own as well...mine is based on my own personal experiences with actives, dermarolling, LEDs and soon to be STOP):

If you are young and have no aging issues yet, I would not buy either, and spend the money on better actives and Ageless.

If you have sagging, then you want to buy the STOP and Ageless facial exercises.

I don't personally recommend LEDs anymore (though I own 2), but people here have had good results with skin texture improvement.

If you have hyperpigmentation, I think actives are a far better bet than LED, and STOP won't help that at all.

If you have acne scars, I would get a dermaroller and skip both the LED and the STOP.

Bethany -

I am 47 have good skin with a little sun damage (not bad and not embarrassing). I have skin that tends to be on the dryer side but no acne issues.

I am noticing starting to show signs of age around my eyes. Lids are starting to get droopy and getting some bags and wrinkles. I am starting to show a little jowling around the mouth and the nasal lines getting a little more pronounced. I am probably more critical of myself then what others are but do want to be pro-active and keep thinking I will need eye surgery but wanted to try to see if I could correct the natural way.

As you might recall from another post I am doing the Flex-away (doing way to many a day) and completed my third day of Ageless. I have been using copper peptides for the last 3 weeks.

free skin care · Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:15 pm

slh wrote:

So for someone who has not bought a LED light yet but about ready to purchase and can not afford both a LED and STOP at this point which should be the first purchase? I am concerned with anti-aging.

slh wrote:

... I am noticing starting to show signs of age around my eyes. Lids are starting to get droopy and getting some bags and wrinkles. I am starting to show a little jowling around the mouth and the nasal lines getting a little more pronounced....

Sounds that you are more concerned with sagging, and might want to focus first on muscle tone, and skin tightening. Facial exercises should help with muscle tone, and RF Stop with skin tightening. After you tackle those you can look into adding other things such as LEDs etc.

It is easier to approach it one step at a time, and there are different things to address different issues.

A word of warning some of us had negative reaction to CPs especially in eye area.

Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:57 am

Thanks Mpstat. I think I am starting a lot at once and may just stick with the facial exercising and cp's for a couple of months then add Stop or Led's. Maybe I would be able to figure out better what is working. Thanks for the weigh in that you think Stop might be the better option for me.

Thanks for the warning but it is a little to late on the cp's around the eye area Sad

. I tend to overdo things sometimes and that was one area. My eyes seem to be be doing fine now. Smile

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:28 am

slh - good solution! Facial exercises definitely should be at the top of the list, and do not forget massage. When you have a gradual approach, and give time to each new thing, you will be able to see what kind of benefits you are getting from it. I love my facial exercises, ProLights, and Stop along with other items, most of them with an exception of Stop have used for a while.

Looking good does not involve facial treatments only. There is more to it diet, supplements, stress handling, and they should be addressed along the way as well. Healthy people are beautiful, and it might be more challenging and beneficial to understand, and concur the entire complex. Here is an example to illustrate what I am saying. Some topicals claim that they help with telomerase lengthening. Such topicals are usually quite expensive, and using them telomerase benefits will be available only to the parts of skin where you apply them. On the other hand it is possible to bring it to entirely different level, and help EVERY cell in your body to have those longer telomeres, not just patches of skin, but everything INCLUDING skin.

Taking one step at a time you will be able to figure out which areas you want to address, and come up with a navigation plan!

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:30 pm

I posted this on a previous page but since this thread has gotten so long and some poeple don't have time to read through all the pages I am reposting.
I had emailed Halina at Win Health and asked the following question.Would there be any facial fat loss caused by the STOP™ treatment course?

This was her response
I am a STOP user myself and just like you - I am so very impressed too!

As far as the fat reduction is concerned - I do not think that this could
happen. The STOP is a device designed for safe home use. The temperature it
achieves on the skin is within established and pre-set safety limits and the
device shuts itself down as soon as the limit is reached. It doesn to cause
any structural damage and results are achieved relatively fast, but
cumulatively over a period of time.

Heating temperatures during treatment with Thermage will be without
comparison to those produced by the STOP. I also think that there will be a
difference in the depth that Thermage reaches.

I am not a specialist on Thermage and I do not feel terribly qualified to
draw any comparisons between Thermage and the STOP. I have therefore posed
your question to the manufacturer of the STOP and awaiting their response.

Can you please give me few days - counting that Friday is a day off in
Israel. Normally - I am able to get their response on the same day.

I will get back to you as soon as I can - when I am armed with a firm
response from Ultragen.

Kindest regards and very best wishes to you for a happy and healthy New
Year!

Halina www.win-health.com

Several days later a response from Halina
You can treat your face without worry about losing any facial fat. The
official response from the STOP manufacturer is below. Hope it reassures you
about the safety of the treatment.

Kind regards

Halina
www.win-health.com

Question: Would there be any facial fat loss caused by the STOP™ treatment
course?

Answer: STOP is a device indicated for facial tightening and as such, the
technical parameters of the device have been adjusted to stimulate collagen
in the dermal layer and not go deeper into the hypodermis (location of the
fat cells). The set parameters (in terms of power, treatment time and the
warming effect) are not adequate for treatments on the fat layer. The
TriPollar™ energy induces an increase in dermal activity resulting in the
stimulation of collagen production and thickening of the dermis (the skin’s
foundation of elastin and collagen) leading to visible skin tightening,
firming and renewal without any loss in facial fat.

Toby

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:31 pm

Ok...so my question is, HOW/WHY is the collagen "stimulated?" I mean what exactly is happening? We know how collagen is stimulated from dermarolling,(wound healing cascade) but with this device, why is heat stimulating the production of collagen? Can anyone explain this to me?

Toby posted this question to STOP makers:
Question: Would there be any facial fat loss caused by the STOP™ treatment
course?

Answer: STOP is a device indicated for facial tightening and as such, the technical parameters of the device have been adjusted to stimulate collagen in the dermal layer and not go deeper into the hypodermis (location of the fat cells). The set parameters (in terms of power, treatment time and the warming effect) are not adequate for treatments on the fat layer. The TriPollar™ energy induces an increase in dermal activity resulting in the [b]stimulation of collagen production [/b]and thickening of the dermis (the skin’s
foundation of elastin and collagen)leading to visible skin tightening, firming and renewal without any loss in facial fat.

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:43 pm

This is what is stated on the Pollogen website in regards to treatments using Tripollar technology:

"TriPollar treatments deliver deep RF energy penetration to the deep dermis and subcutaneous layer without damaging the healthy tissues. Heating both the areas with most resistance, the fat cells, as well as the collagen fibers covering these cells. Regeneration occurs by an increase of fibroblast activity, the contraction of collagen, and a remodeling of new collagen and other dermal matrix proteins.

The elastic fibers of the skin, collagen and elastin are produced by a skin cell, the fibroblast. As they contract, collagen strands are pulled closer resulting in immediately tightened skin (immediate results). Followed by collagen remodeling and regeneration over the full treatment course (long term results).

Clinically proven on all skin types to regenerate collagen, tighten and tone the skin and improve overall skin laxity. TriPollar treatments can gently and effectively tighten the skin on your face, neck, arms."

"As our skin matures and is continuously subjected to environmental effects, its connective tissue begins to break down, causing wrinkles and other signs of aging develop.
The TriPollar RF energy penetrates the skin layers to selectively heat the skin tissue and the extra-cellular matrix (ECM) where the Collagen fibers are embedded. The local heating causes an immediate contraction of the collagen fibers, and at the same time increases the metabolism of the Fibroblasts thereby accelerating the production of new Collagen and Elastin fibers.
The contraction of Collagen fibers and the regeneration of the Collagen and Elastin deposits, tighten the skin layers creating smoother, healthier and younger looking skin."

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:56 pm

bethany wrote:

I don't personally recommend LEDs anymore (though I own 2), but people here have had good results with skin texture improvement.

Is there a reason why you don't recommend LED's anymore?

Sorry, I don't mean to derail the thread. I've been thinking about getting a Prolight Platinum to see if it will finally help eliminate my tendency to get these rashes, once and for all. I've been getting them on a regular basis for an entire year now and I'm sure hoping they aren't a permanent addition Neutral

(I'm also questioning whether or not it's actually rosacea, or something fungal, similar to oral thrush...)

Slightly more on topic, I was intrigued when someone on another forum said that their derm suggested that thermage might help their rosacea - if there really is something to that, I wonder if Stop might have similar benefits?

But the LED is a smaller investment and I want to also use it to help heal my upper ear cartilage piercings. I'm about one month away from buying it... the next few weeks will finish paying for a car repair, and then Rita will most likely have a pocketful of my money.

The Stop might be making a dent in my pocket as well, later in the year, but I want to wait and see how everyone else does first..

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:04 pm

bren21 wrote:

This is what is stated on the Pollogen website in regards to treatments using Tripollar technology:

"[i]TriPollar treatments deliver deep RF energy penetration to the deep dermis and subcutaneous layer without damaging the healthy tissues.Heating both the areas with most resistance, the fat cells, as well as the collagen fibers covering these cells. Regeneration occurs by an increase of fibroblast activity, the contraction of collagen, and a remodeling of new collagen and other dermal matrix proteins.

.....

THIS: "Heating both the areas with most resistance, the fat cells,"

is what makes me nervous Silenced

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:15 pm

Yeah Lowbrow, I understand that....I surely don't need any more fat loss in the face at the moment!! ha ha....

But I have been reading tonight and didn't realize that there are, shall I say, "different" Tripollar or Tripollars with combined RF technologies being used for different purposes.. one of them being that it is also used for cellulite reduction where it actually targets fat cells directly. I am assuming this is where some of you are concerned about the loss of fat in the facial area and with good reason! Smile

At the Pollogen website in regards to cellulite reduction:

"Focal heating of the fat cells in these specific areas increases the rate at which liquid fat is released from the heated tissue.

Regen, exclusively powered by TriPollar RF Technology, effectively treats cellulite at the root of the problem. TriPollar’s unique configuration selectively heats the fat cells under the skin without adversely affecting the surrounding tissues, wherein increasing metabolism and secretion of liquid fat. At the same time, simultaneously heating deep and superficial layers of fat, doing so by combining the dual effects of mono-polar RF and bi-polar RF in one applicator.

TriPollar RF Technology treats skin of all colors gently and effectively. Moreover, unlike older RF technology, regen with this patented TriPollar technology eliminates the need for skin or applicator cooling – enhancing treatment efficacy, resulting in fewer treatments sessions and a reduction in fat."

I noted the use of "mono" and "bi" polar RF for the cellulite.... It states on their web site that Tripollar when used for facial/body firming utilizes Uni polar RF and Bi polar RF.... so, I am assuming this means although the technology is generally speaking the same, combining different RF's gets slightly different results? No fat loss vs fat loss? I wonder how precise this is?? hmm

Maybe this was mentioned before and I may be a bit behind the times, but it's new to me

Me and my damn investigative mind!!! ha ha....I am still loving the STOP though, haven't quite talked myself out of it yet.... Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:20 pm

Good catch Lowbrow! Aye yi yi! I missed that "FAT CELL" part and was heading towards the ORDER NOW page! Ok...I put credit card back in wallet. Will try to wait it out a bit longer Rolling Eyes

for long term user reports...**sigh** (I swear, the more I read about everyone's results, the saggier my face looks. Why is that???)

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:37 pm

What the heck is going on here?

It targets the fat cells and liquifies them everywhere "but" the face?

Now I'm glad I'm still at the top of the fence ... Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:11 pm

bren21 wrote:

Yeah Lowbrow, I understand that....I surely don't need any more fat loss in the face at the moment!! ha ha....

You and me both! haha... Maybe if we had trouble, we could get the fat cells from our stomach transplanted into our faces?

Quote:

I noted the use of "mono" and "bi" polar RF for the cellulite.... It states on their web site that Tripollar when used for facial/body firming utilizes Uni polar RF and Bi polar RF.... so, I am assuming this means although the technology is generally speaking the same, combining different RF's gets slightly different results? No fat loss vs fat loss? I wonder how precise this is?? hmm

Maybe this was mentioned before and I may be a bit behind the times, but it's new to me

See, I find this encouraging - I don't know that I have the gray matter to comprehend all of the science behind it, but *if* different frequencies can affect different tissue - and it seems reasonable that they could? then the STOP might be a great tool. But I agree, I wonder how precise the technology is, and if it's dependent on the operator like the professional treatments? I would think that for a home unit, it would be "weak" enough (for lack of a better word) that fat loss wouldn't even be a possibility. But then, no one expected to have problems with Thermage - the clients and practitioners seem equally surprised by it. I'm just leery of another surprise Silenced

You know, those STOP manufacturers should be paying US to test their device! Laughing

Anyway, I'm still very much interested in this gadget! I just need more information before I can commit.

Quote:

Kassy_A:Now I'm glad I'm still at the top of the fence ...

lol! You're in good company Very Happy

Quote:

Mountaingirl: ...**sigh** (I swear, the more I read about everyone's results, the saggier my face looks. Why is that???)

free skin care · Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:37 am

I'm not sure that I have the gray matter to understand it all either hmm

ha ha...but if I can find some solid proof (in somewhat plain english) of the various R frequencies and their outcomes on bodily usage it would make me feel much better! So I guess this means when I get home from my all morning job interview, I will have to do some added exploring of the net on this subject...

I have in no way discounted the STOP yet...the results are undeniable here with you ladies. I just want to be sure the long term outlook isn't a dim one...I am totally itching for another Juvederm shot and I am not sure how much longer I am going to be able to hold out on that!! Rolling Eyes

yeah, I know!! ha ha....but if I can get myself more comfortable with the idea behind the STOP device, I would much rather spend my $550 on that as the single shot comes out at the same price...in the long run, obviously the STOP would be the much better investment because I think it would address my issue of the lower facial sagging and lessen my little "pits and creases" due to said "sagging"!!!! In turn, no need for shots on a 6 month/yearly basis....

Now I don't know much about this Thermage....is it anything close to the Tripollar technology? I guess I will have to read up on that as well and see what the problems were with it. I would assume by the name it involves some sort heating?

free skin care · Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:13 am

mountaingirl wrote:

Ok...so my question is, HOW/WHY is the collagen "stimulated?" I mean what exactly is happening? We know how collagen is stimulated from dermarolling,(wound healing cascade) but with this device, why is heat stimulating the production of collagen? Can anyone explain this to me?

Here some more explanation from a study done on Asian patients:

Recently, a novel system (Regen powered by TriPollar RF technology, manufactured by Pollogen Ltd.) was developed to deliver the effects of mono-polar and bi-polar Radio Frequency (RF) energies in a non-ablative treatment for all skin colors. This unique 3rd generation RF system is based entirely on different technology than previous generation RF systems, heating simultaneously superficial and deep skin layers by delivering very focused RF current into the skin.

Radiofrequency energy for medical procedures has been used for many years. When applied to tissues between two electrodes the RF current generates heat through resistance of the dermis and subcutaneous tissue. This source of heat has been extensively used in surgery for hemostasis and tissue ablation (electro-surgery), but more recently it has been applied as a means of shrinking redundant or lax connective tissues through the mechanism of collagen denaturation. Collagen molecules are produced by fibroblasts which synthesize three polypeptide chains that wrap around one another in a triple helix. The phenomenon of thermal shrinkage of collagen begins with denaturization of the triple helix of the collagen molecule. When collagen is heated, the heat-labile intra-molecular cross-links are broken, and the protein undergoes a transition from a highly organized crystalline structure to a random, gel-like state (denaturation). Collagen shrinkage occurs through the cumulative effect of the “unwinding” of the triple helix, due to the destruction of the heat-labile intra-molecular cross-links, and the residual tension of the heat-stable intermolecular cross-links (Ref 1). Heated fibroblasts are also implicated in new collagen formation and subsequent tissue remodeling which can also contribute to the final cosmetic result. The precise heat-induced behavior of connective tissues and the extent of tissue shrinkage is dependent on several factors which include the maximum temperature reached, exposure time, tissue hydration and tissue age.

Radiofrequency energy can be applied to tissue between two points on the tip of a probe (bi-polar – 2nd generation RF technology) or between a single electrode tip and a grounding plate (mono-polar – 1st generation RF technology). Less current is required with a bi-polar device than with a mono-polar device to achieve the same effect, because the current passes through a much smaller volume of tissue. With a mono-polar RF device the penetration depth can be estimated as half the electrode size while for a bi-polar RF device the penetration depth of electrical current can be estimated as half the distance between the electrodes (Ref 2).

The regen™ system is a radiofrequency device which uses a multiple-electrode, TriPollar™ configuration (see Fig 1). The TriPollar™ design, 3rd generation RF technology, is based on three (3) or more electrodes to deliver the focused RF current into the skin tissue (see Fig. 2).

Fig. 2: An infra-red picture demonstrating the application of TriPollar energy onto a piece of pork skin shows that the generated heat is focused between the three electrodes. The depth of heat penetration is approximately the average distance between the 3 electrodes and simultaneously heats the dermal and subcutaneous layers (see Fig. 3).

Fig. 3: An infra-red picture demonstrating the application of the TriPollar energy into pork skin show heating of superficial and subcutaneous skin layers down to a depth of approximately 20mm.

Due to its design, no active cooling of the electrodes or the skin is required. The regen™ system delivers RF energy at a frequency of 1 MHz and a maximum power of 30 Watts. Two applicators are available for body and face treatments (see Fig 4,5 & 6).

from: http://www.stop-age.com/userfiles/Dr%20Kim's%20TriPollar%20&%20Asian%20Skin%20Wht%20Paper%20NOV%2016(1).pdf

I think the STOP home device uses 4 electrodes/poles as oppose to 3 like the salon device.

free skin care · Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:48 am

Stop is a small at home RF device, no where near the powerful salon RF devices that used on bodies. For those who had experience with RF treatments at salons and with Stop the power difference is quite apparent. Depth of penetration and strengths for those machines are very much apart. This is why while I use Stop on my face and neck, I am still interested in at home body device that is supposed to be released sometime this year. I expect body devices to be larger, and more powerful (more expensive too).

This said there is nothing wrong with waiting for long term results, and feedback from long term users. Also supposedly not everybody responds well to RF treatments, although pretty much everybdy who got Stop on this board has been satisfied with the results.

free skin care · Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:06 am

I had some questions about the lights on my device not always working according to the manual. Halina gave me an extensive answer, here goes (Halina's answers in bold text):

The first time I used it, the orange indicator light never went on, but the green light did went off after 15 minutes or so. (I started the device on low power and during treatment changed to mid-power)

This is fine. The green light is a safety indicator. You can always restart the device manually again. Although sometimes/often there is no orange light, the green light indicates to you that the device works and that the temperature in the head of the device is within its preset limits. The green light disappears when the preset temperature limit has been reached - at this point the device is either temporarily or permanently off. Please note that the absence of orange light does not mean that the device is not generating heat in the treatment head. The flickering of the green light shows that the temperature is reached for a tiny fraction of time and that this temperature rise is too short for the device to overheat and stay permanently off. Hence - short lasting temperature rises do not lead to full turn off of the device. If however, there is longer time involved and the devices does not have sufficient time to cool - then the green light disappears and does not come back as the device turned itself off. To activate it and restart your treatment - you need to manually restart it.

Suggestion - please ensure that you do not put too much gel on your skin and that you do not try to treat too large area of the skin or move too fast from area to area. The tricky part is to get everything just right. If you move too slowly or cover too small an area - this will often lead to the device shutting itself off. With experience - you will get things eventually right! To overcome early problems and become good at doing your own treatment - you need a lot of practice. However - it eventually comes and you WILL BECOME PROFICIENT with time! I understand this as I had to experience it myself. In my case - it took me about 3 weeks and a lot of calls to the manufacturer to get myself familiar with all scenarios and to understand the device and not be intimidated by it or think that I am doing something wrong or the device is faulty. The lights - and especially how they function - are initially very confusing. The manual describes only a perfect scenario that does not arise for a long time or even ever. What you need to remember - the device is safe and it is only a matter of time and experience to get things close to perfection. One rule - disregard the lights to start with and judge by the feeling on your skin. If it feels too hot - move onto the new area - this gives you psychological peace of mind that your skin is safe. Check on the green light only to know if your device is actually on - there is no point to treat your skin with turned off device. Practice using the device on your hand - using the triangle between your thumb and the forefinger as your testing area. Observe the effects on the lights appearance as you change the speed of your movements, angle at which the device touches your skin and the size of the area covered. Also note how much gel you have put on - the quantity of gel on your skin and its residue on the contact points play a role in the heating of the head and light activation.

The next few times I used it, I immediately put it on high power. The second treatment I saw the orange light turn on after quite some time, but the green light didn't went off after 15 minutes, I did see it flickering at a certain point.

Again - this is fine. I use only the high setting myself. Flickering green light is fine - this means that the temperature in the head of the device is momentarily close to the preset limit. However, as this temperature rise lasts only for a fraction of a mini second, there is no reason for the device to shut itself off totally. It is like a cycle - heats up and cools down and so on time after time again. The green light indicates if the device is switched on or off. When in use, if sometimes the gaps between the high and low temperatures became too short, then the overall temperature increases towards the preset level - this turns the device off and the green light goes permanently off. The situation can be described as there not enough cooling gap to keep the temperature below the preset level - green light flickering is indication of 'high - low - high - low - high - low' and so on. If the low is too short - then the device turns itself off - green light goes off too. Why this happens - can be many reasons - even too much gel on the skin or residue of gel on the head, you are not moving the device correctly or a combination of these factors and so on. Important - please bear in mind that the preset temperature at which the device switches itself off is still at a safe heat level that does not lead to skin burning.

The last time I used it, the green light went suddenly off -maybe after 7 minutes or so and when I turned it back on, after a while the orange indicator switched on again and the green light didn't turn off on it's own anymore.

The orange light can stay on for a while even after the device is switched off. It has something to do with the internal operating temperatures that you need not to be concerned with. Turning the device off manually after you complete treatment is normal. Removing residual gel from the head after treatment or even at regular intervals during treatment is advisable. When I do my treatment and if the device shuts itself off before I finish my face and neck, I always clean the head of any accumulated gel residues. I even often check at random interval and wipe the residue off with a clean tissue during use. Gel residue stores heat and exacerbates the fine tuning of the orange light appearance or non appearance. After you restart the device and complete your treatment - simply switch it off manually. Ensure you clean the head before you put it away. If the orange light is still on - do not worry - it will go off eventually. There is nothing wrong with the lights - orange or green - on your device.
Go by the feeling of heat - if there is heat and you can feel it - then the device works. If the green light does not go off automatically and you have completed your treatment - switch it off manually. If orange light is present after you switch off - do not worry - it will go off on its own eventually.

The only examples of something potentially wrong with the device - there is no heat at all as you do not feel it even at high setting or you cannot switch the device on and the green light does not come on. In such case - check the plug that is connecting with the mains and that the setting on it that you have selected is lit up. In all the time that we have been involved with the Stop and all the numbers we sold - there has not been a single faulty device. They are extremely well made and VERY SAFE. The only problem with them is - it takes the users time, practice and patience to get things just right to achieve the operational proficiency that is described in the manual. Most of us are not trained beauticians and have no experience with beauty devices or performing beauty treatments and knowing what looks and feels right. However - it comes with time and perseverance - and it is worth it!

Personally - I see a massive difference in my skin. I have been using the Stop for sometime now and I could now go onto a maintenance regime, but I still use it at least 2 times a week. At my experience level, it takes me only 10 minutes to complete my face and neck and I do not see it being a waste of time. I have no sagging and my skin is soft and smooth. I used to have regular outbreaks of spots on my chin - I do not get them now at all. And the bags under my eyes are also gone. My neck looks good as well - much to my delight!

So - persevere, K! It is really worth it. Eventually you will understand the lights and the role they play and you will know all the 'lighting' variants that can arise during treatment. And remember - the lights are just indicators that the device is working. In particular - the green light tells you that the Stop is working and tells you if it is on or off. Going off is either:
1. Automatic turn off - based on preset temperature limitation - this tells you that to carry on using, you should restart the device manually again
2. Or manual turn off - you switch the device off yourself as you no longer need to use the device

free skin care · Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:57 am

Thankyou Kandy for posting that. It has cleared things up for me as my green light keeps switching itself off, and I have never seen the orange light at all. No results for me yet after 4 treatments, but it sounds as though I need more practice with it.

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