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Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:19 pm  |
Gute Idee about the screen shot of the warranty!
Bethany, have you considered icing the skin b4/in addition to your topical anesthetic? Maybe it would cut down on the bleeding. Just a thought.
And, I bet you are a redhead or have red in your hair, right? Redheads BLEED!!! << (all OB nurses know this!!) Sorry for your troubles, but I bet you get one h*lluva response to rolling by the cascade released from that much bleeding! Will b interested to hear your results from this B**** good one! |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:31 pm |
| fawnie wrote: |
Bethany, have you considered icing the skin b4/in addition to your topical anesthetic? Maybe it would cut down on the bleeding. Just a thought.
And, I bet you are a redhead or have red in your hair, right? Redheads BLEED!!! << (all OB nurses know this!!) Sorry for your troubles, but I bet you get one h*lluva response to rolling by the cascade released from that much bleeding! Will b interested to hear your results from this B**** good one! |
No I haven't, but I will try that next time.
And no on the natural red haircolor, though I do have the red haired skin coloration and have a red haired sister. And I do color it a reddish brown, lol. 
I do agree with you on the blood and wound healing cascade....Dr F says you have to see blood to get the best results, and I definitely saw great results when I did this in the past. Let's hope this time works as well! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:38 pm |
because we can use a laugh:
I noticed the eBay seller where fawnie got her device also sells a *** 3mm *** length needle roller.
guess the name:
"The meat tenderizer" !
If I recall correctly, 3mm is the length Dr. F uses under total sedation.
BFG |
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:45 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
"The meat tenderizer" !
If I recall correctly, 3mm is the length Dr. F uses under total sedation.
BFG |
You are correct. What is more scary is that people will actually buy and use it. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:51 pm |
Just an FYI that I ended up using my microcurrent on my bruised spots last night to speed up circulation, and it did make a significant difference and the bruises and swelling looked better this morning. (didn't help with the horrid peeling and leather flesh though of course).
I did it again tonight, but that's it since I don't want to overdo the microcurrent aspect. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:19 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
because we can use a laugh:
I noticed the eBay seller where fawnie got her device also sells a *** 3mm *** length needle roller.
guess the name:
"The meat tenderizer" !
If I recall correctly, 3mm is the length Dr. F uses under total sedation.
BFG |
several years ago I got one of em and when I received it i was like no way.... the needles were huge! I dont think it even possible to use it via a roller as it would rip up skin while rolling but may be from a stamp.... |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:47 am |
If I recall correctly, 3mm is the length Dr. F uses under total sedation.
Yes, people will buy these and cause some kind of irrepairable (sp?) damage to their skin or develop a dreadful flesh eating infection, the media will splash the story and the FDA will escalate its current study on needling devices and the next thing you know, it will be illegal to sell them in the U.S.
But of course, they will shut down all needle devices, regardless of type or length...because that's the way it works... |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:14 am |
Regarding length Bethany, is the main area you've had trouble looking beat up under your eyes? Hows your forehead? I also think .5 is enough to get a good result under the eyes, although last time I still had extremely swollen eyes for days, but less bleeding and bruising. I also spend a bit of time in the area, so that's most likely why.
I prefer to use longer lengths on some thicker skin areas though and suffer no undue effects. Even 2mm around the mouth didn't cause major trauma for me (although the second time I went shorter). I really think it depends where on the skin you use what length. I fully agree it triggers much more of a wound healing cascade which may allow us to use shorter lengths, though I have no real data on it. |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:31 am |
| My eyes and 11's are the worst. Today the bruising is significantly diminished (thank you microcurrent!), but there is still some puffiness under my eyes and the skin looks horrid and wrinkly. And then there is the peeling, sigh. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:44 pm |
I just got out of the shower, and washed off all remnants of the moisturizer so the peeling looked even worse once I was fully dry. Plus the skin underneath is pretty sensitive, so I am using only barrier repair products (no actives) right now.
At the moment I am having those "how could I do this crazy stuff to myself" thoughts, lol. I was contemplating following the Dr. F weekly protocol and doing maybe 3, but I really think that is overkill with the pens since you get so many more holes. I am definitely going to be waiting a bit before my next treatment. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:18 pm |
| How long do you plan to wait? |
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Esthetician working at a Med-spa. Love the Clarisonic! |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:34 pm |
| What do you think about using Quasar, LightStim or a similar device instead of the micro current in order to alleviate bruising, improve circulation and speed up healing? Or is LED device a no-no after needling? |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:21 pm |
| LauraLizzie wrote: |
| How long do you plan to wait? |
Probably a month...long enough that I can forget how horrid this is, lol.
| CarolineP wrote: |
| What do you think about using Quasar, LightStim or a similar device instead of the micro current in order to alleviate bruising, improve circulation and speed up healing? Or is LED device a no-no after needling? |
I would use whatever you have that increases circulation to get rid of bruising. Cookie suggested ultrasound, but I didn't have that so I used microcurrent. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:13 pm |
Here's a link to an article that I posted on another Forum recently. (Don't really know if this link was provided here in this thread)
But, maybe there's some useful info.
Article from:
www.beautymagonline.com/sample-pages/1185-needling-09-1
(And some highlights that I found interesting)
Cosmetic vs. Medical Needling - Methods & Conclusions by Dr. L. Setterfied
.....Does depth of injury matter?
Prominent South African surgeon Dr Des Fernandes pioneered much of the work on needling and in 1996 he used a 3 mm roller. Treatments were painful and required IV sedation and analgesia. Further studies by Dr Fernandes and Dr Aust in Germany concluded that similar results could be obtained using a 1 mm roller.
...In 2008, Dr Greco authored an abstract and stated that biopsies revealed new collagen to a depth of 0.6 mm.
Even though 2.0 mm needles were used, no new collagen fibers could be found in the sub dermal layer illustrating no benefit to using longer more invasive needles. These findings could be extrapolated to fractional treatments to minimize injury.
Taking these findings a step further, is it possible that less is best in the context of cosmetic vs. medical rolling?.....
.....Understanding the predictable phases of wound healing dictates optimum timing for treatment and modalities to obtain greatest success. Prolonging the inflammatory phase (day 1-5) will result in more growth factors. Photomodulation and lymph drainage are valuable from day 2-14 and then cosmetic rolling combined with Sonophoresis and micro-current are beneficial to assist maximum delivery of nutrients to cells. Collagenase peaks at around day 14 to reorganize collagen fibrils, converting collagen 3 to collagen 1 and it therefore makes no sense to reinjure the skin more frequently than every 30 days.
Collagen synthesis requires Vitamin A (e.g. Retinyl Palmitate, Retinyl Acetate, Retinol or Tretinoin), Vitamin C (e.g. Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, L-Ascorbic Acid), key amino acids (proline & glycine), bioflavonoids, growth factors, selenium, silicon allied with magnesium and calcium, copper peptides, zinc and iron (co-factors), hormones and essential fatty acids (for cell function and membranes). Stem cell products and platelet rich therapy hold enormous promise....
.....The medical needling group is too small to draw definite conclusions, but appears to be the most effective, although cosmetic rolling is not far behind....
Dr Lance Setterfield Canadian Skin treatment specialist
Dr Lance Setterfield is researching the effects of dermal rolling of the epidermis (cosmetic needling) and dermis (medical needling) combined with pharmaceutical and homeopathic medications, plant extracts, vitamins, and other ingredients.
The goal of the research is to narrow down the variables (e.g. depth of needles, frequency of treatment, topical ingredients and timing of their application, natural hindrances, synergistic modalities and timing of use) to facilitate optimum results. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:34 am |
Thanks Kath91. I am hoping that with the new professional pens on the market, we'll see some additional research come out on needle length, frequency, etc.
And FYI that I am looking MUCH better this morning...the swelling is finally receding. Yay! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:34 am |
| bethany wrote: |
Thanks Kath91. I am hoping that with the new professional pens on the market, we'll see some additional research come out on needle length, frequency, etc.
And FYI that I am looking MUCH better this morning...the swelling is finally receding. Yay! |
Bethany - hey, dahling, you survived the lmm blood-bath...the looking MUCH better's got to be a celebration today!
I don't know the date of the article (linked above). The references at the bottom of it are dated 2008. It will be interesting to see whether needle lengths, etc. new info deviates from *standard* recs...you know, different docs and different opinions, for sure. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:57 am |
At his needling presentation in June of this year, he was still using data from 2008, with respect to needle length, but indicated new research is underway. I couldn't get the specifics on whether the new research is with respect to needle length or other aspects of needling.
BFG |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:31 pm |
| Yay Bethany! And when that skin peels, you'll be gorgeous. That swelling and bruising is rough! I found red led highly helpful with swelling. Love my sqoom/merbe for later too. Not so popular on EDS, but I swear by it for subtle but real improvements - its meant to be great for ATP too. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:04 pm |
| Thx. but who would even WANT to use it? |
_________________
✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:25 pm |
Hi fawnie....
I've always sort of thought that I don't want to roll anything deeply into my skin channels that I wouldn't also put in my mouth...so for me, that means vitamins.
There are more recent recommendations for actives such as stem cells, etc...but I am looking for research recommendations on those.
BFG |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:28 pm |
After the recent debacle, I am not sure I can place any credence on the info available on that site.
BFG |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:35 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
After the recent debacle, I am not sure I can place any credence on the info available on that site.
BFG |
Agreed - after what went on here, I wouldn't depend on Owndoc for any "reasoning". |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:38 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
After the recent debacle, I am not sure I can place any credence on the info available on that site.
BFG |
Agreed - after what went on here, I wouldn't depend on Owndoc for any "reasoning". |
Ditto. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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