Another Gadget, TriPollar STOP
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free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:24 am

bethany wrote:

- I am definitely seeing more of the very tiny little bumps in the areas where my skin is thinner (outer eyes, temples, forehead). I saw this in the same places (and the back of my hands) after dermarolling...I had fantastic results from that, so I am really hoping that this will be equally effective. .

These little bumps sound very strange - I know you said before that you thought it might be collagen building, but surely that wouldn't show itself as little bumps. And to get them after dermarolling also sounds unusual. How do you know that they are not blocked pores or some kind of rash? Is it possible to describe them more clearly? Are they milia like or much more subtle than that?

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:42 am

Okay I have gotten a partial response from Halina & it sounds to me like she is very much trying to get further response directly from Dr Azar.

Here's what I have gotten back so far pertaining to the Stop: (from Halina)

I have had some response from the Customer Service at Ultragen - along the same lines as before - see in blue below.

All the specifications are written on the user manual. The power is different from the Apollo/Regen (less)

Output frequency is 1MHRZ
Modulation: ? - ( I am assuming this means none! (H))

Regardless to the output power or to the frequency, the shape of the electrodes and the distance between them provide a penetration to the dermis only and not to the fat layers/DNA.

Beside this - I have sent another e-mail to them requesting Dr Azar's response - he has passed message few weeks ago (when the issue of comparison with Thermage arisen) that he will contact me in due course with detailed answer. He is a busy person and it will take time. We will try to phone Ultragen on Sunday to see if we can speed up things.

Personally I have faith in Ultragen and Pollogen (they are 'sister' companies with tripollar technology developed by Pollogen and Ultragen marketing the Stop on their behalf) and do not suspect in the slightest that there are any worries in respect of Stop safety. As it is a home use device, it is on a different level from Apollo and Regen and Thermage and they should not really be compared.

My comments:

This is obviously still incomplete, but I am very pleased that customer service from win-health appears to be quite responsive.
I had planned to e-mail Dr Azar directly this am before I saw this so will now wait to see what develops. (Kassy - Thank you for giving me his direct e-mail - case my husband wants to e-mail him further Very Happy

)

In regards to the modulation it appears customer service at Ultragen doesn't know if the device is modulated or not. Confused

Not sure why that would be, but certainly Dr Azar will!

Also the part about the device not penetrating the DNA layer is confusing to me also since all of our cells have DNA!? Perhaps they did not understand the question.

Once again I will post once I hear more & there may very well be more back & forth with Dr Azar till the various questions all get answered.
It is very encouraging that he has agreed to do so!

Bethany : Spoke with my DH last night & his trip is insane so asked that I wait till he gets back for references on the effects of modulated rf.
(also stated that much more research needs to be done in this area)

I will post the following reference (although it is dated related to ongoing research)but at least the earlier section does help one gain a better understanding EMF's & RF.
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet56/oet56e4.pdf

I will say that our exposure to EMF's is in large part (with research often controlled by telecom much as pharma research is controlled by big pharma) an ever widening experiment with exposure increasing as wireless becomes more & more widespread. While we cannot control some exposures (as the Telecomm Act of 1996 basically has things sewn up in favor of our favorite telecom companies - who authored the bill)
we do have the option to control some of our exposures (whether we opt for wireless in our homes, or microwave ovens, living proximity to cell towers & power lines, usage of mobile phones adjacent to our heads, etc - including possibly devices such as Stop)and with
adequate information we can make informed decisions about how much risk we are willing to take in our daily lives. I personally discovered that many of the chemicals that are considered to be safe within certain levels were not in combination of "low levels" & have paid a large price in many ways.

Alright I have gone on enough for now.I am hopeful that Dr Azar will provide us with the data backing up the safety of this device as I too would like to have another tool to fight the ravages of aging!

I really appreciate all the info I gain from those participating on EDS - many intelligent & insightful people here - making it a great place to be! Smile

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:34 pm

Keliu wrote:

bethany wrote:

- I am definitely seeing more of the very tiny little bumps in the areas where my skin is thinner (outer eyes, temples, forehead). I saw this in the same places (and the back of my hands) after dermarolling...I had fantastic results from that, so I am really hoping that this will be equally effective. .

These little bumps sound very strange - I know you said before that you thought it might be collagen building, but surely that wouldn't show itself as little bumps. And to get them after dermarolling also sounds unusual. How do you know that they are not blocked pores or some kind of rash? Is it possible to describe them more clearly? Are they milia like or much more subtle than that?

They are very, very subtle (can only be seen with a magnifying mirror), definitely are not a rash or blocked pores, and they all blend together in a couple of weeks. Once that happens, the skin usually looks a bit thicker and lines have lessened. At least one other person noticed them after dermarolling as well. They consistently seem to be a sign of upcoming good results for me.

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:29 pm

When I researched on Thermage, I read tons of stories of fat loss as one of the main side effects. One of the reasons is that the first generation technology cannot control the radio wave and its impact on fat cells. I am sure that Stop won't be as powerful as the professional model, or may not even reach that deep. For you gals who are brave enough to experiment with Stop, will you keep a close eye on your cheek fat over the course. And again thanks for sharing all your honest opinions with rest of us, some are just to chicken to try new technology like myself.

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:02 pm

I meant to ask this question in my last post and felt an "edit entry" might get lost, I also do not want to re-read all the post if this has been asked.

Are there any STOP users that are not doing Ageless if you Dare or FE, or any facial exercises for that matter?

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:29 pm

I got an email from Halina from Win Health today and thought I would share some information if you haven't heard this.

FROM HALINA,
I forgot to add yesterday that the results one achieves with the Stop are temporary.

They are fairly long lasting, but not for ever. This is why maintenance is important. And even then - it will still not stop us aging altogether.

Stop in reality only works superficially - on the very upper layer of the skin. It is not invasive and does not go deep enough to produce permanent outcomes.

THEN I ASK HER ABOUT THE ISSUES OF FINE LINES AND WRINKLES BEING FIRST TO BE AFFECTED FOR IMPROVEMENT AND THEN WITH SAG BEING LAST

Yes - the wrinkles are first to go or get less apparent. Sagging takes a bit longer and it is slower - one is working against the weight of flesh exacerbated by slackness and wanting to go down with gravity. Non invasive treatments take time and improvements are subtle. If you do not maintain improvements - you lose them eventually.

I am also happy with improvements that I can achieve for myself and and try to maintain. Non permanence means to me that the procedure is fairly superficial, more natural and safer than invasive steps that one can regret in time or even immediately.
Kind Regards,
Halina
Toby

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:38 pm

Toby, thank you very much for posting that information from Halina.

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:53 pm

Cabrita,

thanks for doing this investigation!

I too am worried about EMF's and stuff like that, eventhough I had already bought the STOP Confused

It would be interesting to hear what your husband has to say, knowing the specs.

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:55 pm

Disregard it, wrong post

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:10 pm

Hi all,

So sorry for the delay on this. (wish my DH was here to keep me straight!)

Just realized that based on the info sent from Ultragen's customer service department(from Halina) the output frequency for the Stop (1 mhz) is the same as the regen & the apollo.

This is the same frequency that Pollogen,Ltd. uses in it's regen & apollo professional models to accomplish collagen regeneration & localized fat reduction.

I do hope they can explain this to our/my satisfaction ASAP!

Grateful that due to my DH's knowledge I have so far opted to wait to try this! I remember when I wanted to try Thermage - he said - not a good idea unless I thought it was a good idea to microwave my face/head!
Shock

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:14 pm

Meant to post this link - (which I am sure many of you have already seen)

http://www.pollogen.com/int/products.html

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:44 pm

Not to mesh 2 threads together, but there has been a bit of discussion over on the L2K hand held thread in regards to the safe usage of the ultrasound device that operates at a frequency of 1 mHz... it is reported that the 1 mHz frequency is meant for bodily purposes and is not safe for facial use as it penetrates too deeply, I think bone level was mentioned?.....are we talking the same thing here in regards to frequency with the STOP or does the STOP frequency operate at a different capacity from the Ultrasound frequency?? Just want to clarify this.....

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:31 pm

Frodo wrote:

I meant to ask this question in my last post and felt an "edit entry" might get lost, I also do not want to re-read all the post if this has been asked.

Are there any STOP users that are not doing Ageless if you Dare or FE, or any facial exercises for that matter?

Me. I do not, and have never, done any facial exercise or used any electric stim type machine.

Because of recent filler injections, I am using the Stop only on my forehead, jowls and neck. I already see a significant change, especially in my neck rings, after three sessions.

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:40 pm

Starriest....do you see any change in your jowl area?

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:05 pm

I found this website that has a question and answer list about Tripollar technology....even though its not exactly about the STOP device, I thought those of you that were looking for a cheaper alternative to the conductor gel might find this interesting. Even thought this is in regards to the professional Tripollar treatments, it might ring the same for the STOP device

Question: What is the best oil to use and why?

Pollogen found in clinical trials that the most suitable oil for TriPollar™ treatments is pure Glycerin oil. This particular type of oil is readily available in any pharmacy. Other pure, unscented massage oil may be used with satisfactory yet not as good results. The properties of Glycerin oil have been found to be the most suitable for the TriPollar™ treatment with relation to RF insulation and gliding of the applicator. Mineral oil or any mineral based oil MUST NOT be used with any TriPollar™ treatment

The link if anyone wants to read it:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:8gZlByGG-nYJ:wellnessbuzzhub.com/embeddedimages/faq.pdf+STOP+tripollar+device+is+it+safe%3F&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:34 pm

Toby wrote:

I got an email from Halina from Win Health today and thought I would share some information if you haven't heard this.
[i]
FROM HALINA,
I forgot to add yesterday that the results one achieves with the Stop are temporary.

They are fairly long lasting, but not for ever. This is why maintenance is important. And even then - it will still not stop us aging altogether.

Toby, can you ask her to ask the manufacturer if the any part of the temporary "improvements" can be attributed to cellular level inflammation?

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:46 pm

Bren 21 - that is a most informative link, I suggest that everyone reads it - lots of useful information there covering just about everything. Of course, the info is in regard to the professional salon machines but I suppose we can extrapolate that to the Stop. It also says that LED treatments should be 24 hours apart from RF treatments.

Also, the discussion on using oil is interesting - I would much prefer to use an oil than a gel. For those of you in contact with Helina or Dr. Azar maybe you could ask if it would be ok to use an oil with the Stop.

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:03 pm

bren21 wrote:

Not to mesh 2 threads together, but there has been a bit of discussion over on the L2K hand held thread in regards to the safe usage of the ultrasound device that operates at a frequency of 1 mHz... it is reported that the 1 mHz frequency is meant for bodily purposes and is not safe for facial use as it penetrates too deeply, I think bone level was mentioned?.....are we talking the same thing here in regards to frequency with the STOP or does the STOP frequency operate at a different capacity from the Ultrasound frequency?? Just want to clarify this.....

Geeez, you took the words right out of my mouth.. Idea

That link you provided to the FAQ is very interesting and informative.. Hope everyone reads it.

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:10 pm

bren21 wrote:

For your reading pleasure, this just in from Halina and the use of LED's with the STOP:

Hello Brenda

Re your e-mail and question sent to Roy.

There is no problem, Brenda - none at all! AND we know the answers as we are very familiar with not only LEDs - but with laser phototherapy on the whole - and its medical as well as anti aging beauty effects.

Once you start using the Stop, it will be your choice to use the LED after the STOP treatment - you can use it immediately after the Stop - or on days that you will not use the Stop. Light treatment - either with LEDs or with phototherapy lasers - works well alongside the rf treatment.

You can use the light treatment to calm the skin after the Stop treatment or use it on the days that you are not doing your Stop session. Entirely up to you!

Light treatment as in LEDs or phototherapy lasers and the rf treatment as delivered by the STOP are fully compatible and can be performed one after the other, if you wish to treat on the same day. If you opt for this - the most logical way is to use your light device after the Stop. Alternatively - you can use the LEDs on the Stop gap days.

As you know - the light therapy is painless, non-invasive, non irritating and safe to use. It will not irritate your skin even after the Stop treatment. And light therapy works towards the same goal - anti aging skin rejuvenation - just achieves this in a different way than the rf treatment - for cumulative anti aging outcomes.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards

Halina

This addressed the LED ight usage with the Stop.
Toby

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:16 pm

Keliu wrote:

Also, the discussion on using oil is interesting - I would much prefer to use an oil than a gel. For those of you in contact with Helina or Dr. Azar maybe you could ask if it would be ok to use an oil with the Stop.

They use/recommend plain old glycerin with the professional model, and glycerin is the main ingredient in the gel our Stop came with..

Maybe I'll be the guinea pig, and try glycerin on it's own..

If you don't hear back from me, it'll mean I evaporated into a puddle on the bathroom floor .. Laughing

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:13 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

They use/recommend plain old glycerin with the professional model, and glycerin is the main ingredient in the gel our Stop came with..

Maybe I'll be the guinea pig, and try glycerin on it's own..

If you don't hear back from me, it'll mean I evaporated into a puddle on the bathroom floor .. Laughing

I like the idea of a mixture of glycerin and emu oil.

And don't worry Kassy, I've survived 59 years of physical "abuse" - one little Stop gadget's not going to finish me off.

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:39 pm

Keliu wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

They use/recommend plain old glycerin with the professional model, and glycerin is the main ingredient in the gel our Stop came with..

Maybe I'll be the guinea pig, and try glycerin on it's own..

If you don't hear back from me, it'll mean I evaporated into a puddle on the bathroom floor .. Laughing

I like the idea of a mixture of glycerin and emu oil.

And don't worry Kassy, I've survived 59 years of physical "abuse" - one little Stop gadget's not going to finish me off.

Yep, I suppose it would take a lot more than that, to put us two old war horses down... wave

Oh, BTW, it said on the FAQ sheet Bren posted not to use oil, because it would impede penetration. (That is for the pro model, but it's probably the same.)

free skin care · Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:05 pm

I just finished my 5th STOP treatment...I am going to do one more on Monday (#6) before I head to see clients on Wednesday. But then I will go back to my 2x a week schedule.

At that point, I will have done 6 treatments, and will then take a pic and compare it with my pre-STOP jowl extravaganza pics. Rolling Eyes

I *feel* like there is significant jowl shrinkage, but the dreaded camera may tell a different story. We'll see. Confused

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:21 am

I just checked my before pic against one I took tonight before my 5th treatment.

There is some slight improvement in the sagging, but nothing to go WOW over. Sad

I will say that the improvement in my forehead lines is fairly impressive though, though they were not too bad to begin with.

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:39 am

Kassy_A wrote:

Oh, BTW, it said on the FAQ sheet Bren posted not to use oil, because it would impede penetration. (That is for the pro model, but it's probably the same.)

But is also says this:

37.Why is oil needed on the skin during a TriPollar™ treatment?
There are three main reasons Pollogen advises the use of oil on the skin during a TriPollar™treatment:a) To allow smooth movement of the applicator on the skin.b) To avoid electrical current from flowing on the skin surface and thus short circuiting thepoles/electrodes. Further, without the use of oil it can prevent the RF current frompenetrating the skin layers.c) To cover any hair and to somewhat insulate it from the poles/electrodes.

38.If oil is the insulator and it is used on the skin, then how does the RFpenetrate the skin layers?
Electrical current will choose the path of “least-resistance”. The RF power in the applicator ismore than sufficient to overcome the thin layer of oil between the pole/electrode and the skin.It is recommended to press the applicator slightly into the skin to achieve even betterpenetration of the RF current.

39.What is the best oil to use and why?
Pollogen found in clinical trials that the most suitable oil for TriPollar™ treatments is pureGlycerin oil. This particular type of oil is readily available in any pharmacy. Other pure,unscented massage oil may be used with satisfactory yet not as good results. The propertiesof Glycerin oil have been found to be the most suitable for the TriPollar™ treatment withrelation to RF insulation and gliding of the applicator. Mineral oil or any mineral based oilMUST NOT be used with any TriPollar™ treatment!40.Since TriPollar™ RF increases the skin/body temperature, then why isthere no sweat?There is some sweat, however it is difficult to see because the skin surface is covered with oil.

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