Another Gadget, TriPollar STOP
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free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:42 am

Remember, the FAQ states not to use any mineral oil or mineral "based" oils, but plain glycerin oil seems to be the oil of choice and recommended. I would think there would be other oils out there that would be compatible with the STOP, what those are I would be curious to see. Emu oil as Keliu mentioned would be great...I do love my Emu. There are so many great oils out there that would be fun to use with the STOP, but I think in asking the companies who produced/sell the device, they are going to "push" their own gel/oil concoction...means more cashola in their pockets.

Even if you notice a bit of lifting in that damn NL, marionette area Bethany, it means you're heading in the right direction! Don't get discouraged...any lift is good lift Very Happy

....but I do hope you wake up one day and those suckers are completely obliterated....ha ha....you bet your A$$ the STOP would be on it's way to Wisconsin!

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:07 am

bren21 wrote:

Starriest....do you see any change in your jowl area?

I think so. In general, my skin is improving. But I have several things going on: I started using Clarisonic a few months ago, started AALS two months ago. Both of these have made a huge difference in my skin condition by getting it cleaner (and cleaning properly and consistently. No going to bed without fully cleaning.) The AALS has been great for texture and eveness of color. Also, I started Renova .02 four months ago. I have used it almost every night for the last month or two, having finally pushed through the flakes and other ugliness that can happen at first.

Finally, I broke down and had my fillers done again. Love, love, love that. The nasolabial area and marionettes are greatly improved from just the AALS. AALS had such an improvement that the fillers look better than they ever did. Had a small amount put in the tear troughs also. Turn back the clock many years.

So....yes, my jowls look better. I do not know if the timing of starting the Stop has a lot to do with that or not. The next few weeks should tell.

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:46 am

bren21 wrote:

Even if you notice a bit of lifting in that damn NL, marionette area Bethany, it means you're heading in the right direction! Don't get discouraged...any lift is good lift Very Happy

....but I do hope you wake up one day and those suckers are completely obliterated....ha ha....you bet your A$$ the STOP would be on it's way to Wisconsin!

I am being patient. Very Happy

Besides, the reduction in my forehead lines (and savings in Botox) by the STOP means that it has already paid for itself in just 2 weeks!

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:20 am

Argh!

First off I have to say I hate what the camera shows me.. I think I like what I see in the mirror, and that damn camera puts me in my place..

I did my 5th STOP treatment last night, and have nothing positive to report. But I do now have some negatives;

- When I do my massage, my skin feels mushy in the lower cheek + all along the jawline. I can grab more skin than I could 10 days ago.

- I have no idea why this would be, but the 2 neck rings that were very faint, are now looking very deep and the dreaded redness is back.

- The slight improvement that DH noticed in my NL area must have been from inflamation, because now they are deeper than ever.. Sad

- The fluid/fatty dreaded bags that the Tua Viso much improved, are worse than they ever were in my whole life. Quite like two little water balloons..

- I'm seeing faint broken caps (that are new) all over my cheeks, and also a blotchiness that is hard to describe..

I'm not sure if I am doing things wrong, or if this little gizmo is just not for me.. Confused

If you guys have any thoughts or suggesstions, I'm all ears.

My thought is to just try it once or twice a week instead of every other day.. HELP!!

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:30 am

Kassy, higher levels of inflammation actually makes most of my lines look worse...I look pretty good right after a STOP treatment, but then I typically look worse the next morning (12 hours later). 36 hours is the minimum for me to look for results. Plus, I personally think that every other day is overkill...especially if you doing other stuff to your skin.

Everything that we do to our skin (AALS, Tua Viso, topicials, peels, exercise etc.) requires cellular energy, and there is only so much to go around. Skin can only remodel so quickly, and overdoing it causes the tired look, and tired skin.

I am doing STOP (usually only 2x a week) and Ageless, but no dermarolling. And when I dermaroll again, I will not use STOP for some time.

Everything in moderation, and not everything at once! Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:34 am

Kassy_A wrote:

Argh!

First off I have to say I hate what the camera shows me.. I think I like what I see in the mirror, and that damn camera puts me in my place..

And I totally have to agree with you on this...a friend of mine who is a photographer told me that we are still getting significant distortion when we take our own pics, even at an arm's length. Maybe that is why the mirror looks different than the camera?

Maybe the best way is to get someone else to take your pic?

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:27 pm

Thanks Beth, excellent advice as usual!

I actually thought I was doing too much at once, and cut down on the LED and Tua to 2 X a week this week, and only did the ageless routine once.. I'm going to take your advice and really slow down on the treatments, probably doing just one thing every other day..

My old hyde probably just needs more time for things to kick in ... Wink

And I do agree that things *usually* look better at the 36 hour mark.. (I need to work on my more is better attitude, and have more patience.)

You are absolutely right with the pictures being distorted when taking them ourselves.. I'll let Mr K take them in the future.. (I am very un photogenic anyway, so taking them myself really just makes it all the worse.. Sad

)

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:42 pm

bethany wrote:

fat_swan wrote:

Hi Bethany! I've been following your posts in the other Dermaroller thread, and I am in awe of the amount of research you've done and the results you've gotten! However, the thread was far too long for me to read from beginning to end, so I was wondering if you could offer me some advice please?

I have quite a few reddish/purple folding lines on my neck and am interested in dermarolling them away as TCA peels haven't had much of an effect. What topicals do you suggest I use in conjunction with the rolling? And how long of a needle do you think is safe to use without poking a hole in my windpipe (is this possible)?
...
In any case, my priority right now are my neck lines, and I'd appreciate any input you can offer, thanks in advance!

As far as the neck lines, I can tell you that I have not had a lot of success in this area. I think dermarolling can help the skin texture, etc. but it is not good at eliminating deep dynamic lines (as can be found on your neck). I also figured out exactly WHY I have deeper neck lines than many people...I am a crappy typist, and look down at my keyboard all day! I am trying to retrain myself, but it sure is hard.

I would personally avoid the pain and agony and look at the STOP...after 4 treatments, my necklines are already more improved than after dermarolling for 8 months. Yes, it does cost more, but the results are better.

fat_swan wrote:

Thanks Bethany for the quick reply!

I'm sorry to hear you haven't experienced good results with the Dermaroller on neck lines. It is actually my biggest concern because I'm only 27 but I already have huge rings around my neck from lying in bed reading for extended periods of time.

I apologize for veering off-topic, but regarding the STOP, I actually inherited (well, bought 2nd hand) my facialist's old RF machine several months ago. It is a Korean brand "Poya" that employs mono-polar RF technology. I haven't had much success with it, and I was wondering if you might happen to know whether the effects of mono-polar are comparable to tripolar? Thank you!

Here is a good overview of Mono vs. Bi...the TriPolar actually combines the two. I haven't done any research on this, so I really don't know. Sad

http://www.aesthetic.lumenis.com/pdf/AlumaTech.pdf

BTW, at this point I do NOT believe the STOP will completely eliminate the neck lines, but perhaps may make then more tolerable.

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:12 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Thanks Beth, excellent advice as usual!

I actually thought I was doing too much at once, and cut down on the LED and Tua to 2 X a week this week, and only did the ageless routine once.. I'm going to take your advice and really slow down on the treatments, probably doing just one thing every other day..

My old hyde probably just needs more time for things to kick in ... Wink

And I do agree that things *usually* look better at the 36 hour mark.. (I need to work on my more is better attitude, and have more patience.)

You are absolutely right with the pictures being distorted when taking them ourselves.. I'll let Mr K take them in the future.. (I am very un photogenic anyway, so taking them myself really just makes it all the worse.. Sad

)

Kassy, Bethany is right. I really do think it makes a difference when when one is doing a lot of new things that the skin isn't use to. I have been doing facial exercises for almost two years and I remember when I started I would have good face days and bad ones.....just like my hair days Laughing

Then if you add the Stop and anything else the face is going to show the stress. One reason I may be seeing quick positive results is basically the only "new" thing I am adding is the STop. Not so much for my skin to adjust to right now. Also I got so busy this week and didn't get to do a Stop treatment for 5 or 6 days and noticed the longer I went the better my face looked.
Also the amount of sleep, salt, congestion we have on any given day makes a difference as well. I remember at the end of a year of facial exercises I ask a friend to come and take my pictures and I was expecting to see miracles. When I looked at them I was horrified. It was depressing and I couldn't understand why I didn't look better. The next day I started my period and then had a sinus infection. So rest, drink fluids, relax and one day when you feel it is a Good Skin day have hubby take pictures. I am sure you will be pleased with the outcome.
And Kassy you are very photogenic, I have seen great pictures of you, that is what got me interested in the LED lights. You are being way to hard on yourself Shame on you

Toby

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:45 pm

Hi,

Just spoke with my DH (he gets back late tomm. night Very Happy

) re the various Stop concern/questions.

First re comparing the Ultrasound devices to the Stop in terms of frequency output (mhz) is comparing apples to oranges beause the energy is so completely different. He did say that in general (as we already know) the lower ones penetrate more deeply. So obviously if depends on what you are going for re say 1 vs 3 mhz with the US.
He also said that power output (wattage) is very important for depth of penetration.

The last statement also goes for the Stop so we will have to wait & see what kind of wattage it actually is. I mentioned to him that the apollo & regen are 50 & 30 watts. He says based on my description (info from web & you lovely ladies - since I don't have a Stop)the wattage must be much lower perhaps 5- 10 hence much less penetration. There is a bit if a complicating factor in that this device also uses positioning/angle of the electrode placement to control penetration as well. ( I really wish he could take an actual look at one of these for better assessment as his expertise lies in biomedical equipment development & manufacture & he has decades of experience with rf & electrodes!)

He did say that it would be helpful to know - obviously the actual depth of penetration & how this is controlled for given that some of us have thinner/thicker "skin" than others.

So now back to waiting for the additional info from Dr Azer.

I hope that this makes some since & that it's helpful. Shock

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:56 pm

Thanks for the pep talk Toby!

I'm going to back off from my gung ho mentality, and just do 1 tool a night.. In fact, I may let the Tua Viso go for a couple of weeks and just use the LED and STOP twice per week..

All in all I have bought just about every device ever made, and the only one worth a damn is the AALS. Even if all else fails, that has never let me down. As we all know too well, nothing works the same for everyone, so it really comes down to trial and error. I'd love the STOP to give me some positive results, so I'm not going to give up without giving it a good try.

As for the exercise, Ageless a couple of times a week was working out great, so I'll probably stick with that also.

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:26 pm

My 3rd treatment....Today...No significant changes whatsoever...But I enjoy the treatment...
I HATE to use that slimy mess and made my own oil/gel combo with Aloe Vera and vegetable Glycerin much more pleasant that that slimy gel...am going to add some wheatgerm oil next time I use it....what you guys think?
I was using high setting now using medium.There is no BIG difference to report.

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:03 pm

simpleMD wrote:

My 3rd treatment....Today...No significant changes whatsoever...But I enjoy the treatment...
I HATE to use that slimy mess and made my own oil/gel combo with Aloe Vera and vegetable Glycerin much more pleasant that that slimy gel...am going to add some wheatgerm oil next time I use it....what you guys think?
I was using high setting now using medium.There is no BIG difference to report.

If you are not seeing any changes, I would recommend the following:
- Stick with the recommended gel...this is not the time to try DIY. Wait until you get everything working right, and then do whatever.
- If you hate the gel that much, you may be using too much. I apply mine very thinly...there is not enough on my face nor a long enough application time to hate it! Laughing

- Make sure you are using the STOP correctly...I had previously pointed out a correction to you on the role of the orange light, but I don't know if you saw it.

bethany wrote:

simpleMD wrote:

My first Treatment with stop ....I love it....mine works great ...orange light turns on when its too hot ...when I move to another treatment area it turns off and on again when its hot I am using highest setting.Skin feels warmed up and has a nice glowto it....fine forhead lines slightly diminished due to swelling I guess ...overall I loved it .

Actually, the orange light turns on when it is at the OPTIMAL temperature. If you think that is too hot, I would pick a lower setting. The goal is to get to orange and keep it there throughout Stage 2.

I am not a proponent of the "go by what you feel" methodolgy...the orange light is a very important indicator, and I constantly watch it during a treatment.

During the Warm Up Stage you want to reach Orange, stay on that same spot for a few more seconds, and then move to the next spot.

During the 2nd Stage, you need to stay at Orange the entire time...the only light that should turn on and off is the Green one if the unit gets too hot.

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:21 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

I swear, I'm the only person on this board with genuinely crappy skin.. Neutral

haha..

No, lowbrow, you are not alone. I am right there with you, so we can be in misery together!

YAY! Company Very Happy

Keliu, haha, there's still room in here!

free skin care · Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:37 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Argh!

First off I have to say I hate what the camera shows me.. I think I like what I see in the mirror, and that damn camera puts me in my place..

I did my 5th STOP treatment last night, and have nothing positive to report. But I do now have some negatives;

- When I do my massage, my skin feels mushy in the lower cheek + all along the jawline. I can grab more skin than I could 10 days ago.

- I have no idea why this would be, but the 2 neck rings that were very faint, are now looking very deep and the dreaded redness is back.

- The slight improvement that DH noticed in my NL area must have been from inflamation, because now they are deeper than ever.. Sad

- The fluid/fatty dreaded bags that the Tua Viso much improved, are worse than they ever were in my whole life. Quite like two little water balloons..

- I'm seeing faint broken caps (that are new) all over my cheeks, and also a blotchiness that is hard to describe..

I'm not sure if I am doing things wrong, or if this little gizmo is just not for me.. Confused

If you guys have any thoughts or suggesstions, I'm all ears.

My thought is to just try it once or twice a week instead of every other day.. HELP!!

Kassy, both dermarolling and facial exercises can give people a case of the "uglies" if they go at it quickly in the beginning. Maybe you could give yourself one full week off, then resume with the Stop maybe once or twice a week, as you suggested.

Don't give up just yet!

ETA: I really need to stop responding until I've finished reading the thread.

Glad you're hanging in there, Kassy!

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:24 am

bethany wrote:

Here is a good overview of Mono vs. Bi...the TriPolar actually combines the two. I haven't done any research on this, so I really don't know. Sad

http://www.aesthetic.lumenis.com/pdf/AlumaTech.pdf

BTW, at this point I do NOT believe the STOP will completely eliminate the neck lines, but perhaps may make then more tolerable.

Thanks Bethany! I guess I will stick with my old monopolar RF until I hear more positive feedback on STOP as it is rather out of my price range Crying or Very sad

When you use STOP on your neck, do you follow any particular massage pattern, or do you just roll the thing randomly on your skin until time is up?

If you ever find the holy grail of eradicating neck lines, I'd be very interested to hear about it! Thanks again for all your help, I'm forever in awe of all the time and research you guys have put into all these gadgets! Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:38 am

Kassy, Bethany is right, you're probably just doing too much all at once - plus checking for results in that dammed magnifying mirror far too often! I also agree with Toby about the bad skin and hair days - except I reckon I get bad weeks. Some days I look in the mirror and I look quite "perky and youthful" and I think all my efforts are paying dividends. Other days I look in the mirror and see Old Mother Hubbard staring back at me (and I must admit it is very depressing). And as for the photo issue - I absolutely cannot stand the site of myself in photos - sometimes I think I've got BDD! (There's a thread floating around here somewhere on this very issue).

I think you should try and take a more relaxed approach to your treatments - maybe concentrate on the Stop seeing as it's your newest "toy" and see how you feel about things in another month. And if all else fails, go and get a face full of Botox! - (sorry, had to throw that in there Bad Grin

)

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:23 pm

Hi Everyone,

Just heard back from Halina/Dr Azar re the additional specs. Since I know some of you are waiting for this info I am posting prior to reviewing with my husband this pm.

They also sent me additional studies which I will also forward once I check back with them to make sure this is alright.

It seems that the answers to your questions sent to me previously, were incomplete - perhaps someone pressed the 'send' button too early by error without realizing this. After yesterday's conversation with people at Ultragen - the e-mail was resend again and the information is now complete:

1. Maximum Output Power: RF output power (on 2kΩ load): Low level – 0.65 Watts, Medium level – 0.85 Watts, High level 1.1 Watts

2. Output Frequency – 1 MHz
3. Modulation if any- no modulation see Modulation info by Dr Azar attached.

1. Maximum Output Power - Please note that the power levels are different from the professional systems from Pollogen Ltd, which are also powered by TriPollar™ RF technology such as Apollo™ and regen™. The power level of the STOPä clinical skin renewal device are of course lower than that of the professional systems. TriPollar RF technology has been adapted for home use for such devices as the STOPä to work only within the layer of skin for which it has been modified. STOPä’s TriPollar technology has been modified to work effectively and safely in the dermal layer only (which affects the look and feel of the uppermost seen layer, the epidermis; causing tightening, toning of lax skin and reduction in fine lines and wrinkles comfortably for the user.

2. STOPä clinical skin renewal device technical SPECIFICATIONS :

Weight: 85gr

Physical Dimensions: H=134mm L=51mm W=32mm

Operating conditions:

O Temperature: + 5°C to + 30°C

O Humidity: 20RH to 80RH

Rating:

O AC 100Vac to 240Vac 0.6 A 50/60Hz

O DC 7V/8V/9V 1.5A

Transport and Storage:

O Temperature: 0°C to 40°C

O Humidity: 10RH to 90RH

Electrical Safety: Power supply is classified as Class ll – double insulation

Output Frequency: 1MHRZ

3. I am concerned re the possibility of fat loss & additionally DNA damage. – Regardless to the output power or to the frequency, the shape of the electrodes and the distance between them provide a penetration to the dermis only and does not extend to the fat layers (hypodermis) /DNA. The fact that we work only on the dermal layer and not the hypodermal layer (fat layer) is the reason why there is NO facial fat loss.

4. Would also like to know "if' th Stop OS modulated any studies done to show there is no DNA damage being done - Due to the fact that Radio Frequency technologies have been used in medical procedures for over 30 years globally; the outcome of years of research, clinical studies and approval from regulatory institutes world wide have caused this effective and safe technology to cross over to aesthetic procedures, both invasive and non-invasive more recently. With continued years of clinical studies in this field and receipt of regulatory approvals worldwide. The most recent generation in non-invasive Radio Frequency, TriPollar, has lead to a safer, pain free and extremely effective treatments.

You can see further information on tripollar technology atwww.tripollar.com and http://www.pollogen.com

Based on what I know this looks very encouraging from
a safety standpoint.

Will post again after I get input from my husband.

Jennifer

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:29 pm

Jennifer, I am certainly glad you are on here with that hubby of yours!!! ha ha.... it really makes me feel better that there is someone out there with the knowledge about RF and let me say I really do appreciate what you are doing here.

Can't wait to hear what the hubster has to say about it!!!

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:47 pm

I just had to weigh in with a follow up...

I went to the hair salon today to get my white racing stripe Rolling Eyes

touched up before I visit clients later this week. While I was there, I noticed that my Howdy Doody lines and forehead wrinkles look ATTROCIOUS. Shock

At this point, I am not 100% sure that the results are long lasting enough to warrant the expenditure, when you compare it to something as cheap (ok, and painful) as dermarolling...my results are still fully intact 5 months after they showed up. And I am also concerned about the ongoing inflammation.

I am going to reserve a final judgment until sometime after I finish the recommended 6 weeks, but I am not quite as "sold" today as a I was last week.

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:17 pm

Thanks Beth...
I JUST DO NOT LIKE THE FEEL OF IT ...BUT I WILL STICK WITH THE STICKY MESS FOR NOW...N YES I READ YOUR ORANGE LIGHT POST TOO THANKS THATS WHAT I WAS DOING ...ORANGE LIGHT ON THE SECOND PASS ...I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT... Embarassed

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:28 pm

simpleMD wrote:

Thanks Beth...
I JUST DO NOT LIKE THE FEEL OF IT ...BUT I WILL STICK WITH THE STICKY MESS FOR NOW...N YES I READ YOUR ORANGE LIGHT POST TOO THANKS THATS WHAT I WAS DOING ...ORANGE LIGHT ON THE SECOND PASS ...I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT... Embarassed

LOL....there are some things that just don't work for me either, so I know how you feel.

But just stick it out until you start seeing some results...once you do, then start monkeying around with it if you want. But if you try a DIY this early, you may not really give it a fair shot.

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:38 pm

Thanks again !

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:18 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Kassy, both dermarolling and facial exercises can give people a case of the "uglies" if they go at it quickly in the beginning. Maybe you could give yourself one full week off, then resume with the Stop maybe once or twice a week, as you suggested.

Don't give up just yet!

ETA: I really need to stop responding until I've finished reading the thread.

Glad you're hanging in there, Kassy!

I agree about trying one thing at a time. I know the improvement I have now came from RF because it is the only thing I added recently. When I started doing facial exercises seriously I got adverse reaction after a short while, and did not look good at all! It took time to figure out what I had to adjust to make it work nicely. Kassy & Bethany, I hope that RF would work for you as good as it does for me and others, just need to figure out the best treatment schedule!

free skin care · Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:01 pm

mpstat wrote:

Kassy & Bethany, I hope that RF would work for you as good as it does for me and others, just need to figure out the best treatment schedule!

I hope so too. Are you not concerned about the inflammation?

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