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free skin care · Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:53 pm

Keliu wrote:

Bethany, we're going a bit off topic here - but I want to ask you if you're going to stop using Retin-A when you go on the Obagi routine.

No...you actually have to use RA every day as part of the Obagi Nu-Derm protocol. Shock

free skin care · Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:03 pm

gumgirl wrote:

Bethany,
I admire your tenacity...and willingness to experiment with new products. I mentioned in the dermaroller post that hyper/hypopigmentation problems are my #1 issue. My problem may be dermal...but this is primarily a gut feeling. Regardless, it is persistant.

And then there are those that think I am just NUTS! Very Happy

If yours is dermal, I would definitely recommend the Obagi Nu-Derm...it does impact the dermal layer and also distributes the melanocytes more equally throughout the treament area so that you don't have areas of concentrated pigmentation.

Once mine is gone via the Nu-Derm (a change in plans for me), I am hoping that the green LED will help keep any pigmentation away in the future.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:03 pm

Bethany, Thanks for the feedback.

I have used Obagi/Retin-a for 18 weeks with only limited success. I would try it again, but can't have prolonged irritation since I wear a self-contained breathing device at work in less than desirable environments. That's part of the appeal of LED's.

free skin care · Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:53 pm

gumgirl wrote:

Bethany, Thanks for the feedback.

I have used Obagi/Retin-a for 18 weeks with only limited success. I would try it again, but can't have prolonged irritation since I wear a self-contained breathing device at work in less than desirable environments. That's part of the appeal of LED's.

Ah...I can definitely see the issue with that. How about cutting back the frequency so that the irritation is not an issue? You might also want to consider using just the Clear or the Vi-Derm Bleaching Cream Rx.

Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:56 pm

I purchased a green LED device and then I saw on realself web site that someone with dark brown skin actually got hyperpigmentation with a red LED for wrinkle. This cause me to worry about this green LED device as I have yellow-brown skin and I am trying to get rid of pigmentation. I had used the green light instead on one of my hand age spot for about 5 weeks and I could not see any improvement as I see that the skin surrounding the age spot is getting more wrinkle/rough... So, I would like to see if anyone got any result on age spot?

ChrisJ

free skin care · Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:34 am

chrisJ wrote:

I purchased a green LED device and then I saw on realself web site that someone with dark brown skin actually got hyperpigmentation with a red LED for wrinkle. This cause me to worry about this green LED device as I have yellow-brown skin and I am trying to get rid of pigmentation. I had used the green light instead on one of my hand age spot for about 5 weeks and I could not see any improvement as I see that the skin surrounding the age spot is getting more wrinkle/rough... So, I would like to see if anyone got any result on age spot?

ChrisJ

Chris, there was a poster here previously that did have success with her green light (which is part of the reason that I decided to try it). But I am the only other person I know with a green light.

What brand of light do you have?

free skin care · Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:40 am

With my IPL, I've noticed my hyperpigmentation is worse. I just havae red lights.

free skin care · Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:11 pm

Mars wrote:

With my IPL, I've noticed my hyperpigmentation is worse. I just havae red lights.

That doesn't make sense Mars. Could you be doing something wrong, or using a topical that is causing inner damage to come to the surface..

Could you share all the particulars, and maybe we can all help you figure out what's happening? It would really help if you share the following;

- Age

- How long have you been using the light, and how frequently do you use it

- Do you treat on a clean bare face, or with topicals applied

- If you do use with topicals, are you waiting 20 or 30 minutes for it to fully absorb

- Do you use CP's, Retin A, or anything else that works at the cellular level

- How would you describe the hyper pigmentation you had previous to using the light

- Did you by any chance take pictures for yourself to use for comparison (I'm not asking you to share them, only to examine for your own use)

- Do you exfoliate your skin on a regular basis

Hopefully the problem will just turn out to be no problem at all and just a coincidence of something else you're doing..or not.. Wink

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:46 am

Hi, Kassy_A, I just turned 57. I've used my DPL since the spring. Originally, I used it 3 days/wk. Presently, I use my DPL once a week on a clean face. Afterward, I just use a normal moisturizer. Also, I use retin-a (have for over 20 years) 3x/wk., DermaWand once/wk., 1.5mm dermaroller 2x/month, microderm machine 2x/month. I exfoliate daily. My skin is dark/redened along my nasil-labio lines (spelling?) Laughing

) and radiates outward. Since using the light, the dark/redened area has increased and is a bit darker than before.
Thank you for any advice Smile

.

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:10 pm

Mars wrote:

Hi, Kassy_A, I just turned 57. I've used my DPL since the spring. Originally, I used it 3 days/wk. Presently, I use my DPL once a week on a clean face. Afterward, I just use a normal moisturizer. Also, I use retin-a (have for over 20 years) 3x/wk., DermaWand once/wk., 1.5mm dermaroller 2x/month, microderm machine 2x/month. I exfoliate daily. My skin is dark/redened along my nasil-labio lines (spelling?) Laughing

) and radiates outward. Since using the light, the dark/redened area has increased and is a bit darker than before.
Thank you for any advice Smile

.

You have me stumped Mars.. Sad

From what you wrote, it looks like you are doing everything possible to promote skin turnover, and keep the skin/blood well oxygenated.... The only thing I'm wondering is if the Retin-A use for more than 20 years has just thinned your skin too much.. If that is the case, maybe what you're experiencing is the skin becoming a little transparent.. Confused

Another possibility is that the 'redness' could be inflammation or perhaps rosacea starting..

You didn't mention which light you are using, so I just want to ask if you are doing it according to the directions it came with? I thought a while back you were considering LS or BQ, but DPL is a whole different ballgame so please share what you wound up with.

My next thought is perhaps you are just doing too many things on a regular basis that are all compromising your skin integrity, and thinning your skin..(DPL, Dermaroller, microdermabrasion, manual exfoliation daily + 20 years of Retin-A.. Shock

) Once we pass the 50/menopausal years, I think we have to consider that we can't bounce back and heal as fast as when we were youngins'.. Rolling Eyes

If I were you, my inclination would be to eliminate a couple of things... So for me it would be; get rid of the dermabrasion machine altogether and shelve the Retin-A for a few weeks to allow the skin barrier to thicken up some. For the Dermaroller treatments you should definitely pick Bethany's brain, because she is our resident pro at EDS IMHO...The only thing I would offer in my limited knowledge about it though, is that maybe you should only do it every 6 or 8 weeks, instead of twice per month, until your present situation resolves..

So my advice, for what it's worth, is to back off a bit on most things, until your skin thickens up a little. Using the 'light' to reduce inflammation would probably be a good thing. Use some gentle and effective topicals to help rebuild the skin (Remergent Barrier Repair, Avocado Oil, Vitamin E, Emu Oil + Squalane Oil would all help!) You'll notice I left out my favorite vitamins A + C, and that's because you should avoid acids for now, and just work on healing and repair....IMHO of course!

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:21 pm

I totally didn't even know I was posting in the LED man thread.. Argh!! Sorry to hijack.. Sad

So how are the LED man lights working out anyway? Have you guys noticed anything good or not so good to share?

I'm waiting patiently to hear if it's worth ordering a big honker of amber and red to cut down on treatment time..

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:18 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Mars wrote:

Hi, Kassy_A, I just turned 57. I've used my DPL since the spring. Originally, I used it 3 days/wk. Presently, I use my DPL once a week on a clean face. Afterward, I just use a normal moisturizer. Also, I use retin-a (have for over 20 years) 3x/wk., DermaWand once/wk., 1.5mm dermaroller 2x/month, microderm machine 2x/month. I exfoliate daily. My skin is dark/redened along my nasil-labio lines (spelling?) Laughing

) and radiates outward. Since using the light, the dark/redened area has increased and is a bit darker than before.
Thank you for any advice Smile

.

My next thought is perhaps you are just doing too many things on a regular basis that are all compromising your skin integrity, and thinning your skin..(DPL, Dermaroller, microdermabrasion, manual exfoliation daily + 20 years of Retin-A.. Shock

) Once we pass the 50/menopausal years, I think we have to consider that we can't bounce back and heal as fast as when we were youngins'.. Rolling Eyes

I agree with this...it sounds like it could be due to post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation. That is a LOT of activity there, and your skin could be sending you a message.

Quote:

What is the cause of postinflammatory hyperpigmentation?

Inflammatory responses of the epidermal skin layer to disease or trauma results in the release and oxidation of arachidonic acid to prostaglandins, leukotrienes and other products. These products alter the activity of immune cells and melanocytes. Melanocytes produce more melanin (skin colour pigment), which is transferred to surrounding keratinocytes (skin cells). This is known as epidermal hypermelanosis.

Another cause is dermal hypermelanosis, a deeper pigmentation that occurs when inflammation disrupts the basal cell layer (the bottom of the epidermis), causing melanin pigment to be released into the papillary dermis (the top part of the dermis). The pigment may be trapped by large immune cells called tissue macrophages.

http://dermnetnz.org/colour/postinflammatory-pigmentation.html

Surprisingly, one of the best regimens for PIH is Obagi Nu Derm, which promotes healing of the skin via Retin A, along with increased turnover. It can be a tough program, but it does NOT have to be used every single day.

If it were me, I would stop all the tools and consider Nu Derm for at least 6 weeks if your goal is to get rid of the discoloration asap.

Check out the Melasma Friends thread on the Skincare forum...several people there are doing Obagi.

free skin care · Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:03 am

Kassy_A and Bethany, THANK YOU! Angel

You are so nice to take the time to advise me. First, I meant to say I have the IPL (not DPL), the LED red lights on 2 panels. I used it according to instructions and have been doing 1/wk. as a maintenance. I've always been one to overdo!!!! I think you're absolutely right that I'm doing too much. Since I use retin-a 0.1, would I really benefit from NuDerm? Also, do you think I should still exfoliate?

free skin care · Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:23 am

Mars wrote:

Kassy_A and Bethany, THANK YOU! Angel

You are so nice to take the time to advise me. First, I meant to say I have the IPL (not DPL), the LED red lights on 2 panels. I used it according to instructions and have been doing 1/wk. as a maintenance. I've always been one to overdo!!!! I think you're absolutely right that I'm doing too much. Since I use retin-a 0.1, would I really benefit from NuDerm? Also, do you think I should still exfoliate?

I would cut back on the exfoliation as much as possible...do it only when you have major flaking, and even then try to just use you fingertips.

The Nu Derm contains hydroquinine that will help bleach the pigmented areas, plus some additional acids that will help increase the exfoliation. 6 weeks is recommended to pre-treat the skin prior to any kind of skin treatment (face lifts, peels, etc.) to avoid PIH, and it also is used to treat PIH and melasma.

At the absolute minimum, I would suggest getting the Nu Derm Blender to mix in with your RA...it contains the hydroquinone, and a blending agent to help distribute melanin more evenly so that you don't have the dark patches. The other option is the Nu Derm Clear which you can use 2x a day and also helps with the bleaching.

You MUST wear sunscreen when using this, though hopefully you already are since you are using RA.

free skin care · Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:36 am

Kassy_A wrote:

So how are the LED man lights working out anyway? Have you guys noticed anything good or not so good to share?

I'm waiting patiently to hear if it's worth ordering a big honker of amber and red to cut down on treatment time..

I'm interested, too... I still have my heart set on getting a red LED, I'm just waiting for some more information before I buy.

If anyone's looking for a larger red LED panel, V is offering a "gently used" one at a pretty nice discount. He said he's not getting a lot of traffic at his page so he lowered the asking price.

I'm not quite ready to buy yet, but it does look like a bargain: http://www.theledman.net/ebayitems.htm

free skin care · Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:51 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

If anyone's looking for a larger red LED panel, V is offering a "gently used" one at a pretty nice discount. He said he's not getting a lot of traffic at his page so he lowered the asking price.

I'm not quite ready to buy yet, but it does look like a bargain: http://www.theledman.net/ebayitems.htm

Wow...that looks very nicely made, and sounds like it generates some serious heat. I can just envision that suspended from something and doing my whole face at once!

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:14 am

So, Bethany, any update from you and results on your LED unit from the Led man?

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:11 am

rileygirl wrote:

So, Bethany, any update from you and results on your LED unit from the Led man?

I stopped using it for a bit because I was wondering if I should combine the LED with the HQ from the Nu Derm. But I decided that I am just going to go with it.

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:02 am

Hi! I'm just now reading the responses to issue with hyperpigmentation. It's getting worse! The darkening/reddening has spread to under my lower lip. (BTW, I've using my red LED's more). I will stop exfoliating immediately. Now, what about dermarolling? I'm will be seeing my in-laws Wink

in a little over a month. Already stressed about that. I've heard some neg things about hydroquinone. I swear, this darkening thing is weird!

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:56 pm

Mars wrote:

Hi! I'm just now reading the responses to issue with hyperpigmentation. It's getting worse! The darkening/reddening has spread to under my lower lip. (BTW, I've using my red LED's more). I will stop exfoliating immediately. Now, what about dermarolling? I'm will be seeing my in-laws Wink

in a little over a month. Already stressed about that. I've heard some neg things about hydroquinone. I swear, this darkening thing is weird!

I have these thoughts as I read your post.

1. Maybe your LED device is defective. (It sounds like your experiencing the same thing as if you went out in the sun, or to a tanning bed.. Shock

)

2. It's probably best to not add insult to injury with dermarolling just yet.. Shock

Maybe it's time to just do nothing, and let your skin just stabilize.(Beth would be better to advise you on the dermarolling though)

3. I think gentle manual exfoliation would help more than hinder, as it definitely lightens the skin.

The things that are really great for the skin are vitamins A, C, E + and also squalane + cold pressed avocado oil.

Why not start from scratch by doing absolutely nothing for a day, and then gradually incorporate a couple of nourishing things topically. If this goes okay, then you could gradually add a device back into your routine..

Please try to figure out if you have a defective LED before anything else..

Also, would you be willing to post a *cropped* picture, that shows exactly what's happening? Maybe someone can relate and offer better help for you.

Try not to be too upset. We're all here for you, and hopefully you'll get the answers that will help.

ETA: I'd be happy to whip you up a nice *healing* cream to use (my treat), that will be long on the above ingredients and short on the bad stuff.. Very Happy

If your interested PM me your address.

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:21 pm

Mars wrote:

Hi! I'm just now reading the responses to issue with hyperpigmentation. It's getting worse! The darkening/reddening has spread to under my lower lip. (BTW, I've using my red LED's more). I will stop exfoliating immediately. Now, what about dermarolling? I'm will be seeing my in-laws Wink

in a little over a month. Already stressed about that. I've heard some neg things about hydroquinone. I swear, this darkening thing is weird!

Please do NOT start dermarolling...your skin is not healthy enough to do so, and you could cause more harm then good.

I really believe you need to lay off everything for a couple of weeks and let your face heal. Or go to the dermatologist, tell him what you have been doing, and get his take on it.

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:23 pm

Dear Mars,
Please see a dermatologist.
I am an "over doer" also and sometimes I just have to stop everything and be very kind with aloe and Emu oil. I'm worried about your increasing redness.

free skin care · Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:09 am

Hi Mars,

IMHO 2 x month microdermabrasion + exfoliation everyday + Retin-A is all too much. I would cut out the microdermabrasion and the exfoliating. If you've been using Retin-A for a long time then your skin should be used to it but if you're applying it to skin that has been heavily exfoliated, it could be irritating. So maybe just use it three times a week until your skin recovers. Personally, I doubt that the LED would be causing the trouble (unless it's defective as Kassy suggested). Still, better to be cautious and not use it until your skin is back on tract. Let us know how you go.

free skin care · Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:37 am

Hi, You guys are so kind. I will take your advice and keep you posted. Thank you so much!

free skin care · Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:14 pm

I got my BQ red last month, the result is wonderful!

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