Can anyone help me with sagging skin?..
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Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:53 pm

Hi,

Can anyone tell me the best product for sagging skin especially around the cheek bone.. and lifting the eye brow? I have tried the Tua Viso muscle stimulator but I haven't seen any results..

Thank you

free skin care · Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:15 pm

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=17697

Hi Take Care! and welcome! You will find loads of good advice here on just that very subject! There are several facial exercise programs we are doing now to fight the sags. The general consensus is that retinoids + vitamin C (topical) is the best way to treat and prevent sagging and wrinkles. And of course, strict sun AVOIDANCE, not just sunblock. Good nutrition and hydration is also key.

Hope this helps and please look around more here - there are so many more wise ppl here than myself! And.....Take Care!!! Very Happy

Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:34 pm

Hi Fawnie.. Thank you.. for the quick reply...

I forgot to mention in my post I have also been useing Copper Peptides Serum topically and 1000 mg of vitamin C orally..

Is what you suggested very differant?

Thanks Again...

free skin care · Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:58 pm

Hi Take Care...

wellllll, there are mixed reviews about the copper peptides....some ppl say you go thru "the uglies" if you use too strong a concentration too soon....this could be the sagging you describe. I think there are other threads about "copper peptides" here that could advise you, if you do a search. I gave up on them, myself. I think retinoids (Retin-A, Renova, or OTC retinol products like Green Cream) plus topical vitamin C are better tolerated, and are working just fine for me.

I take MSM 1500 mg along with my 1000 mg vit C to firm the skin. Some ppl here take much higher doses, but you have to work up to it or you may experience headaches and/or GI upset. There are more threads here about "Taking Supplements" and some of us take a long list of them!! Make sure you get adequate protein intake too or the skin can show sagging. I'm not a nutritionist, but if you do a google search for an RDA chart you should find something.

We are always tweaking our routines here, so welcome to the club!!!!! Let us know what works for you!!!!

free skin care · Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:45 pm

If the sagging is recent, it could definitely be due to the CPs.

Regardless of if you are using CPs or even taking Vit C supplementation, you should still be using both a topical Vit A (retinol, Retin A, etc.) and using a topical Vit C (12 hours away from your CPs)...these have FAR more consistently proven, independent clinical studies and validation than CPs. (and yes, I have used CPs myself)

But I agree with Fawnie that Facial Exercise is one of the best bets out there to eliminate facial sagging.

If you want to start fast and cheap, I would recommend downloading the $10 ebook of "Ageless If You Dare"...it only takes about 5 mins a day (I just started myself!).

http://www.louiseannette.co.uk/

http://www.lulu.com/content/4463137

FlexEffect (which I also own) is VERY comprehensive, but it takes more like 30 mins a day. Check out the before and afters to see the power of facial exercise:

http://www.flexeffect.com/beforeafter.htm

And if you want to chat with some of us about facial exercise, there is a thread under the Skincare Forum (this is the Product Reviews Forum):

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=17697

HTH!

Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:17 am

Hi Bethany,

Thank you very much for the reply..

My sagging skin at my cheek bones and droopy eyes are do to INTENSE stress that occured several months ago. My life is much more peaceful now but the damage has been done. People literally noticed my face change over night..and so did I.

I'm wondering how do I use Vit A (retinol, Retin A, etc.) and (topical Vit C) 12 hours away from CPs?... when I use CP every 12 hours? Smile

I forgot to mention I am also taking MSM 1000mg and Fish oil 2500mg and have purchased the Tua Viso. but I have lost faith in the Tua Viso.. do the electronic stimulators really work..I'm not sure?

Which do you feel is the absolute best tape/DVD or exercise product available regardless of
cost?

Thank you again..

Take Care.. Smile

free skin care · Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:42 am

Hi Take Care,
There are lots of facial exercises on You Tube, really good as you can see it demonstrated. I have just bought the Tua Viso, and only used it twice, and I have to say I'm already impressed! Make sure when using it that it's positioned correctly or it could possibly do more harm than good.

Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:02 pm

Hi Lil..

Thanks for the u tube tip I will look..

I have been very careful to place the Tua Viso in the correct spots.. but I don't feel it has made any differance.

In the long run I could be wrong.. I really hope it works for you. Please let me know how you make out.

You will notice a few of the excerises cause under your eye to "twitch".. be careful of that!

I used the Tua Viso on one side of my face only. This was so I could compare and under my eye did change but not for the better.. I'm sure if you do not set it too high a setting you will be ok.. however you should be aware of strong "twiching" near the eye.

The directions are very limited with this product.. so this is something you sould know.

free skin care · Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:42 pm

[quote="Take Care"
My sagging skin at my cheek bones and droopy eyes are do to INTENSE stress that occured several months ago. My life is much more peaceful now but the damage has been done. People literally noticed my face change over night..and so did I.[/quote]

Hi Take Care,

I'm glad to hear that your life is much more peaceful now! Smile

I know it's kind of basic, but I would definitely make sure that you're drinking enough water. My DH, when he gets stressed, always forgets to drink enough fluids - and I can always tell in his skin. Even though your most stressful period passed a few months back, I would definitely see if drinking more fluids will help. (It will not only help flush any residual toxins - but help plump your skin cells and make your body operate more efficiently. So long as you don't drink too much fluid to excess - water is one of the best things for you!)

Also, I don't know if you've read some of Bethany's excellent posts on the Dermaroller thread (Do-It-Yourself Skincare forum) but you might find that of interest s well. I know I've seen some good (initial) results from Dermarolling, and I've just started...

Cheers and best of luck!

free skin care · Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:34 pm

Take Care wrote:

I'm wondering how do I use Vit A (retinol, Retin A, etc.) and (topical Vit C) 12 hours away from CPs?... when I use CP every 12 hours? Smile

Dr. Pickart says that CPs can be used every day, but I really suspect that 2 times a day is overkill. They can also cause significant sagging, and some other non-desireable side effects if they are not used on a limited basis. I personally developed horrible cross-hatched lines under my eyes that took 6 months to go away.

CPs are fine, but they are not a substitute for Retin A and Vit C....I would suggest cutting back to once a day so that you can use Vit C. That way you will have the best of both worlds.

BTW, you can use your CPs under or over Retin A, depending on how thick the CP formulation is.

Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:16 pm

Hi Taobunny,

Drinking water is one thing I am not doing enough of.. I often forget to drink 8 glasses per day.. Thank you. Also I will look into the Dermaroller I appreciate the suggestion.

Bethany.. The person that sold me the CP told me to use it twice a day after the first week. I will take your advice and use it once a day.. where do you suggest I purchase the Retin A and topical Vit C?

Thank you both..

Take Care

free skin care · Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:46 pm

Take Care wrote:

Bethany.. The person that sold me the CP told me to use it twice a day after the first week. I will take your advice and use it once a day.. where do you suggest I purchase the Retin A and topical Vit C?

What brands of CPs are you using, and what is the exact name of the product?

You can buy Retin A from alldaychemist.com (in India) or inhousepharmacy.com (in the UK). I recommend that you start with the .05% cream.

There are a number of Vit C serums, or you can make your own. I prefer the Obagi brand because their delivery systems and stability have been proven to be superior to the competition. You can get that here at EDS.

free skin care · Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:06 pm

bethany wrote:

Dr. Pickart says that CPs can be used every day, but I really suspect that 2 times a day is overkill. They can also cause significant sagging, and some other non-desireable side effects if they are not used on a limited basis. I personally developed horrible cross-hatched lines under my eyes that took 6 months to go away.

Um, so call me dumb, but why would anyone want to use CPs then??? Is there some other benefit that outweighs the sagging risks? (Sorry to hijack your thread, Take Care) Embarassed

free skin care · Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:39 pm

taobunny wrote:

bethany wrote:

Dr. Pickart says that CPs can be used every day, but I really suspect that 2 times a day is overkill. They can also cause significant sagging, and some other non-desireable side effects if they are not used on a limited basis. I personally developed horrible cross-hatched lines under my eyes that took 6 months to go away.

Um, so call me dumb, but why would anyone want to use CPs then??? Is there some other benefit that outweighs the sagging risks? (Sorry to hijack your thread, Take Care) Embarassed

Copper can definitely help with tissue remodeling and removal of scar tissue....I did a ton of research, and even bought Dr. P's book. However, they must be used on a long-term basis, since using too much can cause the skin to sag in the short-term (which can take 6+ months to tighten up Shock

).

My personal view now is that a little can't hurt, overdoing it sure can. Of course, YMMV...I am blessed/cursed with very responsive skin, and the damage I incurred just wasn't work it. I personally would not use them more than once a week now (even though I have a fridge full!)

Here is an overview of the original GHK-cu that was discovered with Dr. Pickart, and is now used in the Procyte/Neova and Neutrogena Visibly Firm lines. Dr. P then created a more stable version called SRCP which adheres better to skin.
http://www.skinbiology.com/copperpeptideregeneration.html#signal

Also, here is a thread on CPs:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=22230&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0&sid=02d43c03ac93b53dd96b8614fac23f41

free skin care · Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:42 pm

bethany wrote:

taobunny wrote:

bethany wrote:

Dr. Pickart says that CPs can be used every day, but I really suspect that 2 times a day is overkill. They can also cause significant sagging, and some other non-desireable side effects if they are not used on a limited basis. I personally developed horrible cross-hatched lines under my eyes that took 6 months to go away.

Um, so call me dumb, but why would anyone want to use CPs then??? Is there some other benefit that outweighs the sagging risks? (Sorry to hijack your thread, Take Care) Embarassed

Copper can definitely help with tissue remodeling and removal of scar tissue....I did a ton of research, and even bought Dr. P's book. However, they must be used on a long-term basis, since using too much can cause the skin to sag in the short-term (which can take 6+ months to tighten up Shock

).

My personal view now is that a little can't hurt, overdoing it sure can. Of course, YMMV...I am blessed/cursed with very responsive skin, and the damage I incurred just wasn't work it. I personally would not use them more than once a week now (even though I have a fridge full!)

Here is an overview of the original GHK-cu that was discovered with Dr. Pickart, and is now used in the Procyte/Neova and Neutrogena Visibly Firm lines. Dr. P then created a more stable version called SRCP which adheres better to skin.
http://www.skinbiology.com/copperpeptideregeneration.html#signal

Also, here is a thread on CPs:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=22230&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0&sid=02d43c03ac93b53dd96b8614fac23f41

Thanks, Bethany - I can always count on you to give me the real scoop! Smile

Hmmm, until I get to do more research on the CP - I think I'll hold off on getting some... I certainly don't need any help with additional sagging...

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:34 am

taobunny wrote:

Thanks, Bethany - I can always count on you to give me the real scoop! Smile

Hmmm, until I get to do more research on the CP - I think I'll hold off on getting some... I certainly don't need any help with additional sagging...

I'd hold off and see how you look after the Nu Derm regimen. And if you are worried about sagging (as in FACIAL sagging, of course), come join us on the facial exercise thread! Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:32 pm

bethany wrote:

taobunny wrote:

Thanks, Bethany - I can always count on you to give me the real scoop! Smile

Hmmm, until I get to do more research on the CP - I think I'll hold off on getting some... I certainly don't need any help with additional sagging...

I'd hold off and see how you look after the Nu Derm regimen. And if you are worried about sagging (as in FACIAL sagging, of course), come join us on the facial exercise thread! Very Happy

Meh. I can barely manage to exercise my body (gee, talk about sagging!) I don't think I can get up the motivation to exercise my face too... :P

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:29 pm

Good point Taobunny..

Why am I using this stuff anyway? Rolling Eyes

I was told I would benefit from using it..

Bethany,

The CP name is.. Loren Pickart PhD Aging Reversal Sciences it has a red lable with gold trim. The person who sold it to me said to apply it twice a day after the first week.. and once I finish this bottle I would need to use a stronger version..

Let me explain what happened a little better..
my skin isnt sagging due to the CP (however perhaps the CP isnt helping either) My face litterally changed due to intense stress. My cheek bones look a little puffy but I guess the people here would call that loose skin. Also my eyes look smaller.. I guess you would say my eye brows dropped. My eyes also look a little sunk in.. and the skin under my eyes became a little looser.

Over the course of several months on numerous occasions I literally thought I was going to have a major heart attack. It is not something I even like to think about.

If anyone is facing an extremely stressful situation in their life for whatever reason.. they need to stop and get help immediately. If I can assist anyone regarding stress please let me know.

I don't believe I would benefit from Dermeroller.. due to the fact that I really dont have wrinkles.. is that correct?

So you suggest I slow down using CP and use a Ritin A Cream and a Vit C Serum? You also mentioned Nu Derm.. is that the line you suggest I use? Any particular products?

Thank you very much for all of your help..

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:00 pm

So you are using the Skin Biology CPs...even the weakest versions are sufficient once a day (unless you are a vendor and just want to sell more).

I would definitely start Retin A and Vit C.

Nu Derm is for hyperpigmentation (and some other things), but isn't for sagging. I haven't see any improvement in sagging with my dermaroller, so I wouldn't go there.

But I would still suggest the facial exercise.

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:29 pm

I saw on tv last week a light device that is now for sale at Sephora.com
Its called Tanda...
Looks very promising without going to a dr's office.
Maybe ask Santa for it?

Sorry for all your stress. hope things are looking up now!

Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:07 pm

Thank you..

I wonder if the Tanda works? I was wondering about a laser for the face..

I also incurred hair loss do to this incident and resently purchased a laser light for my head. So far I havent seen any results they say it could take a few months if in fact it does work at all.

free skin care · Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:14 pm

Take Care wrote:

Thank you..

I wonder if the Tanda works? I was wondering about a laser for the face..

I also incurred hair loss do to this incident and resently purchased a laser light for my head. So far I havent seen any results they say it could take a few months if in fact it does work at all.

Check out the Skincare Tools forum for LOTS of LED discussions.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

Here is a thread from the Skincare Forum on stress-induced hair loss....something I am very familiar with, unfortunately. I have posted a number of things I have tried on this this thread below. I can whole heartedly recommend Viviscal, and I also like the Skin Biology Folligen for Blondes followed by emu oil...those have worked VERY well for me.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29005&highlight=viviscal

Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:02 am

Ever tried using Daeses?
I use the facial gel cream, however they have several products in the line. The ingridients are 2% dimethylamineoethanol, 20% alovera, 2% glycolic acid, and 0.1% hyalouronic acid.

Works pretty good.
Oh and the advice about limiting sun exposure is dead on. Thats easily the first thing you should consider

Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:43 pm

Hi Bethany..

I called to order Retin A but was told it is only sold by perscription..is that why you refered me to those other web sites.. (which this site will not let me post).. Smile

They also stated that Vit C Serum was available in a few differant strenghts.. which do you recomend? They also stated that Obagi was a very strong brand to start with.

As far as hair loss..

You recomend taking 2 Viviscal tablets (which is basically a vitamin) every day PLUS rotating between:

Viviscal Scalp Lotion

Fekkai More Nighttime Follicle Treatment (rather perfumey)

Folligen (only if a blonde)

and adding emu oil on top of these occasionally to assist in penetration.

That's quite a lot... Smile

Hi Anamera..

Thanks for the suggestion.. what exactly is Daeses used for.. have you had good luck with it?

Thank you for all of your help..

free skin care · Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:51 pm

It is proven that Retin A increases collagen (SEVERAL studies point to this). I am not sure if it increases elastin (maybe someone can chime in on this). Therefore, it SHOULD increase firmness and help with sagging over time, or at least prevent it. If anyone disagrees with this, please let me know!

Vitamin C in ascorbic acid form used in the morning should help with sun damage and also increase collagen. I am not sure the % of collagen that it would increase though. I have read that Retin A can increase collagen by over 30%. I really feel that Retin A is very tried and tested, and you really can't go wrong. I think everyone should use it!

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