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Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:32 am  |
I know this has been discussed before but if you don't mind, can we review which products need refrigeration, and which don't. I need a refresher!  Copper Peptides? Vit C? NCN's Pumpkin Peel? Emu Oils or other oils? Etc.... |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:05 am |
| I know that carrier oils like rosehip and evening primrose should be stored in the fridge. Any DIY concoction with a lot of water and no preservatives should also be refrigerated as well. |
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44 – combo/oily skin with a tendency towards clogged pores. Thanks to EDS, tweaked my skincare routine and normalized skin… no more breakouts. PSF, silk powder, Janson Beckett, Cellbone, NIA24 are staples. |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:56 am |
The two I recall from reading this board are:
Vit C and liquid oat BG.
Then anything that contains KGF may warrant being refrigerated. I recall reading the instructions from SAS when I bought their KGF for brows that I was supposed to keep it refrigerated.
Dermagen is also to be refrigerated. |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:07 am |
| Cherisse? What, may I ask, is KGF? If it'll make brows grow, I'm in!! Please let us know how you like it! Thanks. |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:12 am |
| lefemme wrote: |
| Cherisse? What, may I ask, is KGF? If it'll make brows grow, I'm in!! Please let us know how you like it! Thanks. |
Hi Lefemme,
It's Keratinocyte Growth Factor. It's for hair growth. I must admit I bought it for lashes, not brows. I also kept forgetting to use it since I had to keep going back to the fridge. Dr. Hannah said it works! But she sells the stuff. lol I still have a lot of it left. I will try to use it more consistently and see if I see anything different on my brows. |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:16 am |
Virtually ANY cosmetic formula that contains inherently "unstable" oils should remain refrigerated. Unstable oils by definition are oils that have greater than 5% polyunsaturated fats. In chemical terms that means that they have more than one double bond between carbon atoms. When oxygen hits these types of fats it reacts at the double bonds, essentially cutting the original fat into smaller parts. These smaller parts are usually aldehydes and ketones and these type of small chain materials "stink", or smell bad. In a nutshell, I have just defined how an oil becomes "rancid". Therefore, if you buy products that contain oils of this type and leave them open, especially in warmer conditions, that product will begin to smell bad in a rather short period of time.
Now, you can look up oils on google.com and attempt to get a fatty acid composition if you are not sure about products that you have.
Here is a quick reference list of some inherently unstable oils:
Safflower
Apricot
Mink
Sesame Seed
Almond
Avocado
Rice Bran
Wheat Germ
Canola
Grape Seed
Borage
Evening Primrose
Olive Oil
Soy
Mango
Hemp Seed Oil
Flax Seed Oil
Emu
For further reference, here is a brief list of very stable oils that have a practically indefinite shelf life and will not smell or turn rancid:
Coconut
Castor
Macadamia Oil
High Oleic Sunflower Oil
Babassu Oil
Jojoba Oil
Squalane
John |
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President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:17 am |
| I think Essential oils do not need to be refrigerated. |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:33 pm |
whoohoo, one more reason to love jojoba oil!  |
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44 – combo/oily skin with a tendency towards clogged pores. Thanks to EDS, tweaked my skincare routine and normalized skin… no more breakouts. PSF, silk powder, Janson Beckett, Cellbone, NIA24 are staples. |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:58 pm |
Cool! Thanks for your info John  |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:43 pm |
| Would that mean that Julie from Perfect Complexion's Soy Lift should be refrigerated? Guess I should check out her ingredients.... |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:52 pm |
Well keep in mind that refrigerating a product will only "slow down" the process. The cold temperature slows the oxidation reaction. But, it only delays the inevitable. Those unstable oils will go rancid, it's just a matter of time. Storage conditions, or loading the formula with Vitamin E "tocopherols" as an anti-oxidant simple do not work to stop this chemical process.
John |
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President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:58 pm |
| John C. Hill wrote: |
Well keep in mind that refrigerating a product will only "slow down" the process. The cold temperature slows the oxidation reaction. But, it only delays the inevitable. Those unstable oils will go rancid, it's just a matter of time. Storage conditions, or loading the formula with Vitamin E "tocopherols" as an anti-oxidant simple do not work to stop this chemical process.
John |
John, the jojoba oil (made by Desert Essence) which I bought from TJs has a weird smell to it now (like it's stale). I bought it about 6 months ago and kept it in the shower. It's supposed to be pure jojoba. So do you think there's some oxidation going on with it? |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:31 pm |
Jojoba is a somewhat different emollient. It is not a triglyceride oil, it is a wax ester. It does have two double bonds in its stucture which means it can be slightly unstable. But, because half the molecule is fatty acids and half is wax esters, it does resist oxidation fairly well. If it is 6 months since you've had it, it makes me wonder how old it was before it was sent to you?? That's the problem with some big companies....."shelf life". Quite often their inventory sits in large, hot warehouses before it ever gets sent to you. That's why when I make my cosmetic products, I produce them in a "just in time" basis so it is as fresh as possible.
So, it could be starting to oxidize. But, in general, Jojoba oil has a pretty long shelf life.
John |
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President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:46 pm |
| John C. Hill wrote: |
Jojoba is a somewhat different emollient. It is not a triglyceride oil, it is a wax ester. It does have two double bonds in its stucture which means it can be slightly unstable. But, because half the molecule is fatty acids and half is wax esters, it does resist oxidation fairly well. If it is 6 months since you've had it, it makes me wonder how old it was before it was sent to you?? That's the problem with some big companies....."shelf life". Quite often their inventory sits in large, hot warehouses before it ever gets sent to you. That's why when I make my cosmetic products, I produce them in a "just in time" basis so it is as fresh as possible.
So, it could be starting to oxidize. But, in general, Jojoba oil has a pretty long shelf life.
John |
Thank you, John. I don't know how long it was sitting on Trader Joe's shelf. But if it's not supposed to smell stale, then I'd take it back to Trader Joe's. They will give me a new one. |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:49 pm |
Wow...great to get that info John. Nice to know you're still out there and we can pick your brain!  |
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Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:55 pm |
Hi John,
Castor oil appears in your list of oils that are fairly stable; however, there have been mentions in other threads that castor oil turns rancid quite quickly, which is why it's often processed with harsh chemical preservatives that often cause sensitivity reactions. I'm just wondering if you know anything about this, or could perhaps elaborate on the difference (if any) between castor oil and the other oils you listed as slow to oxidize. (Unfortunately I can't seem to find the thread where this was discussed, but I hope I've provided enough information for this to be clear.) Thanks! |
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32, fair hair/eyes/skin, always a mix of dry/oily/sensitive/acne/clogged pores. But I keep getting compliments on my skin, so something must be working! Beauty blog at http://heliotro.pe; online dating coaching at http://theheartographer.com |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:43 am |
In order not to take an chances, I store almost all my "beauty-stuff" in the fridge: parfum, creams, serums, sunscreen, cosmetics etcetera. In my bathroom I keep them just in véry small bottles or jars which I refill each time they're empty.
Of course the tretinoin I always store in the fridge and I mix it with vit. E oil and co-Q10 on a daily basis.
Not that it is so hot in my country, on the contrary  , but I do believe that 5 degr. Celcius is always better than 20 degrees (room temperature), especially when it is DIY!!!!
I even put the coconut oil (conditioner for my hair)in the fridge, but when I listen to John that might not be neccesary. Would be great, 'cause it is a disaster to get some out of the jar for it gets REALLY stiff like a rock in the fridge!! I just invented to first melt the coconut-oil, put it into a rubber ice cube mall, put it in the fridge and take out two cubes for each use that I can have melted. |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:48 am |
ginnielizz, I have to think that there is something else wrong with a sample of castor oil that is supposedly going "rancid". Castor Oil, by it's chemical composition is not succeptible to going rancid at all. It is over 90% ricinoleic acid which has 18 carbon atoms and only 1 double bond between the carbons. It is NOT a polyunsaturated fatty acid compound and therefore is very stable. We've run OSI tests (oxidative stability) on various castor oil samples. The test is very harsh. The sample is heated to 110C and oxygen is bubbled through it at the same time. It still resists all oxidation for a very, very long time, thus verifying it's stability.
Perhaps the grade of castor oil might be the reason. I would prefer that you use something like CasChem's line of "Crystal" castor oils. These products are highly pure, and castor oil is one of the only triglyceride oils that approaches a "pure compound".
I have to think that maybe the sample you are referring to is contaminated in some way. Other than it's natural "scent" which is quite unique, castor oil should never smell "rancid".
John |
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President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:18 am |
| In case any of you use Creme Del La Mer - DO NOT PUT IT IN THE FRIDGE. The ingredients in it will seperate!!! This was told by a La Mer SA. |
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53, DermaQuest, NCN Products, PMD, Dermarolling |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:31 am |
That is very interesting information about the Creme Del La Mer, MACrisis. Formulators are taught to make robust formulas. They must withstand many conditions including heat, light, dark, and cold conditions. All of these can be encountered in typical warehouses, and in transit (imagine a truck parked at a Phoenix truck stop over the weekend in the summer, or a warehouse in northern Michigan in January!).
If they tell you that it will separate in refrigerated conditions (4 degrees C), then that formula is not a good one. They must have done the low temperature stability testing and found the separation which should have told the formulator that his emulsion system is not strong enough. For them to go ahead and offer this product to consumers anyway, is, well, not too good in my opinion.
Could you give me the ingredients list for that product? I'd like to see where they went wrong or where they "skimped" to make the product.
Just my 2cents worth on that....
John |
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President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:40 am |
Holy Crap!!! A 1 ounce jar (just 28 grams) of Creme Del Le Mer is priced at $380.00 !!!
Please tell me you don't pay this price for this material!!
Just what I don't like about the cosmetic industry even though I love the cosmetic industry. EXTREME OVERPRICING of products, backed up by "trade secret" names like "miracle healing water" that really don't mean a thing, and then untrained consumers buy it.
I'm going to attempt to find the ingredients list, and if I do, I'll give you an approximate cost of the 1 ounce of product for them to "manufacture". I'll bet it will be less than $20....probably much less....
John |
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President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:44 am |
Interesting, I went to La Mer website to locate ingredients for the famous "creme de la mer" and was given the blurb to effect that they don't provide ingredient list and to contact customer service with questions. http://www.cremedelamer.com/templates/products/search_results.tmpl?KEYWORDS=ingredients&lmsearchbtn.x=0&lmsearchbtn.y=0
I think the active ingredient in this is SKB, sea kelp bioferment. Skin Actives sells a kit to make your own La Mer concoction...
There was a similar thread about shelf life of Vit. C some time ago and the challenge of ordering it in the summer where it's likely to sit in a hot warehouse without refrigeration; I was relieved to hear that PSF and Cellular Skin RX test their product to be able to withstand high temps. So far, I've had my bottle of Cellular Skin RX firming C serum sitting in my bathroom cabinet for nearly 3 months; no sign of oxidation of "going off" so far. |
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44 – combo/oily skin with a tendency towards clogged pores. Thanks to EDS, tweaked my skincare routine and normalized skin… no more breakouts. PSF, silk powder, Janson Beckett, Cellbone, NIA24 are staples. |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:44 am |
| MACrisis wrote: |
| In case any of you use Creme Del La Mer - DO NOT PUT IT IN THE FRIDGE. The ingredients in it will seperate!!! This was told by a La Mer SA. |
Oh noooo, it doesn't!!
At least..... not the moisturizing lotion. I have been using it for a few years, just because I had been told it was one of the best in the world. If this product wouldn't do anything for me, nothing would  .
Well, it did nothing for me. I thóught it did, but that was just wishfull thinking . After I discovered what tretinoin could do for me, and all the other wonderful products like DMAE, CP-serum, pearl cream, I left the last De la Mer jar in the fridge. It has been there for two years now. Sometimes I still use it, but nothing has changed about it, no separation or whatever . |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:49 am |
| John C. Hill wrote: |
Holy Crap!!! A 1 ounce jar (just 28 grams) of Creme Del Le Mer is priced at $380.00 !!!
Please tell me you don't pay this price for this material!!
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I didn't John. A 50 ml (1,7 oz) jar costed me about 190 euro two years ago ($255 I think). Still wáy too much of course!  Especially when it seems to be just a nice and ordinary lotion.
I believe the creme itself was about the same price.
Of course the prices might have gone up! |
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Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:46 pm |
Now doesn't that make you curious that Creme Del La Mer, at the incredibly high prices, can't find the time or effort to post there ingredients list?!
And, they are SUPPOSED TO!! All consumer cosmetic products sold in the US are supposed to have a fully disclosed ingredients list on the package or on a sheet in the box describing ALL ingredient, only by their INCI name, from highest loaded to lowest loaded ingredient.
They are not following the rules and that is just plain deceptive.
John |
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President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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