Mental Illness in the family -- advice?
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free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:46 pm

Is anyone here dealing with a mentally ill family member? I'm having such a hard time dealing with my sister right now, who is severely bipolar. She refuses all treatment, and hangs up on me every time I try to call her. So far most of the support my family has found has all been for people who have already gotten the person to agree to at least minimal treatment. If anyone has any ideas about resources or tips on how to get her to agree to treatment, please let me know.
sorry to bring a little black rain cloud into the lounge but you never know where good advice will come from. Confused

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:50 pm

If she has a doctor or has been to a mental health facility they sometimes have counselors that can make recommendations. I've never had to deal personally with someone with bi-polar - good news is that if you can get them on the right meds keep them taking them they usually do pretty good.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:01 pm

she's been in and out of mental health facilities, but it's been involuntary, and they can't really release much info to us or talk about her condition to us unless she agrees. So in general to avoid discussing particulars with us, they hand us the standard pamphlets. which basically tell you to hug it out and get them into therapy, but doesn't say what to do if they are violently against medication and refuse to speak to family members.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:09 pm

Sorry to hear that. Some are a little more willing to help. At least refer you to counselors. The only other way I know of is to go to court and from what I understand that is very very very difficult unless they have hurt (physically) someone.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:13 pm

wow, you know your stuff! Yep, you're right. Basically we've come to the same conclusion...not much we can do...I guess I'm just hoping someone has some miracle solution (not going to happen). Thanks for the support.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:13 pm

waffle...

are you in the United States?

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:15 pm

yep, and she's in California (so is the rest of my family), land of "let's not interfere with their rights and just let them be homeless"

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:17 pm

Ah damn.. They have the worst laws in the country when it comes to things like this. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. Unfortunately, it isn't at all uncommon. One of the biggest obstacles to overcome with someone who has serious psychological is to convince them that they really do need to take their meds.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:20 pm

I have a friend that is bipolar. He ended up in jail and had to have counselling. That's how they found out that's what was causing his mood swings. He has regularly been taking medication since and is a much nicer person and totally changed his life around (married with child). It's too bad your sister won't agree to the treatments.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:22 pm

fortunately we did get her out of san francisco county, and into a rural county where the mental health officials and courts are more willing to bend the rules -- don't get me wrong, I love San Francisco, but they would rather let someone be a homeless mentally ill junkie than interfere with their right to be nutty.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:28 pm

waffle, sorry to hear that. I don't have any experience, but I want to give you my support here. Don't give up and it will get better. You are a good sister.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:01 pm

Knowing alot of the ins and outs of this, you first need to remember, convincing her she needs meds is like you wearing a black t shirt and having to trust me when I swear to you its white! You see it as black and can't for life of you get how it could possibly be white. So thats how they see it. There fine, were crazy. They aren't being mean by not taking meds, they truely can't get they need them. Other than involuntary commitments, theres not much you can do at all but watch. So sry to tell you that, but you can hand deliver meds and its still up to her to swallow them. The ones who suffer the most are the family, the sick person is truely oblivious they are ill...so sry you are going thru this..really I am. Wish I had better news.

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:37 pm

Have you contacted your local NAMI (Nat'l Alliance for the Mentally Ill)? They offer peer support and education for family members and patients. They are a very strong lobbying group on behalf of the mentally ill and are a great outlet for information and political activism.

This is kind of a last resort, but does the state in which you live offer "outpatient commitment"? I was a mental health counselor in Mississippi (prior to becoming a doctoral student) and the outpatient commitment was a court order that mandated the patient to attend regular outpatient treatment and remain on meds or they risk being involuntarily re-committed. It really helped increase treatment compliance and decrease state hospital admissions.

Good luck, and God(dess) bless.
tracey

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:50 pm

MelissaMarie wrote:

Knowing alot of the ins and outs of this, you first need to remember, convincing her she needs meds is like you wearing a black t shirt and having to trust me when I swear to you its white! You see it as black and can't for life of you get how it could possibly be white. So thats how they see it. There fine, were crazy. They aren't being mean by not taking meds, they truely can't get they need them. Other than involuntary commitments, theres not much you can do at all but watch. So sry to tell you that, but you can hand deliver meds and its still up to her to swallow them. The ones who suffer the most are the family, the sick person is truely oblivious they are ill...so sry you are going thru this..really I am. Wish I had better news.

no, this is good advice really. Because what my family really needs to do is accept the fact that she can't be convinced with logic and we can't force her...so all we can do is try our best to keep her from getting into too much touble. Thanks, it's hard to take that position so it helps to hear other people tell you that you've done what you can.

Oh, and nice analogy. What really sucks is that she's freaking brilliant, and so instead of thinking we're crazy and she's sane, she just thinks we're all stupid and don't understand her genius (genius being staring at walls and yelling about nazis apparently)

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:54 pm

kittikin wrote:

Have you contacted your local NAMI (Nat'l Alliance for the Mentally Ill)? They offer peer support and education for family members and patients. They are a very strong lobbying group on behalf of the mentally ill and are a great outlet for information and political activism.

This is kind of a last resort, but does the state in which you live offer "outpatient commitment"? I was a mental health counselor in Mississippi (prior to becoming a doctoral student) and the outpatient commitment was a court order that mandated the patient to attend regular outpatient treatment and remain on meds or they risk being involuntarily re-committed. It really helped increase treatment compliance and decrease state hospital admissions.

Good luck, and God(dess) bless.
tracey

I will definitely look into outpatient committment -- not sure if California does it, but it would be a great option because what happens is that she gets committed, and then refuses meds, but she is really pretty quiet in there so they usually release her after a couple of weeks...and then once she's out she goes on a rampage and ends up back in. I will definitely research -- she's up for some hearings soon.
NAMI is great but our chapter is very limited since my family lives in a remote area.
thanks so much, you guys really ARE helpful.

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:52 am

Another route if she is really anti meds is looking up some of the anti-psychiatry groups (google should come up with some). They provide help and support for people who don't want meds. I have a friend who is bi-polar and she lost all her creativity (she's an artist) when she took her meds. She is med free now and whilst it is really difficult, she now has better coping mechanisms and so do her family for when she is really bottoming out. This option MAY provide help for all of you.

Good luck Smile

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:22 am

I feel for you & your family. My best friend at work has exactly the same problem with her sister. Her sister at the moment is refusing to take her meds and is drinking constantly. To make it worse her mum is undergoing chemo for cancer and she has started back at work before she should because she would rather not be at home with the sister. It is an awful situation for everyone involved.
My heart goes out to you & I hope your sister realises she needs help soon for all your sakes.

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:39 am

I know it is frustrating for you and MelissaMarie summed it up nicely. Just remember to take care of yourself as well. Unfortunately it becomes more of a nightmare for the family than the patient, because they do not understand they are ill. Best of luck to you and you family.

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:59 am

The person close to me with this problem is freaking off the charts smart! I think it comes with the genius! His IQ is astounding!

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:57 am

guapagirl wrote:

Another route if she is really anti meds is looking up some of the anti-psychiatry groups (google should come up with some). They provide help and support for people who don't want meds. I have a friend who is bi-polar and she lost all her creativity (she's an artist) when she took her meds. She is med free now and whilst it is really difficult, she now has better coping mechanisms and so do her family for when she is really bottoming out. This option MAY provide help for all of you.

Good luck Smile

oh, maybe that would be good! Although she tends to think everyone is stupider than her (fabulous side effect of her "up" days), so she's a bit down on group stuff. But if she sees it as a requirement of not taking meds, maybe she'd go. That would at least give her something to work from.

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:00 pm

loopylori wrote:

I feel for you & your family. My best friend at work has exactly the same problem with her sister. Her sister at the moment is refusing to take her meds and is drinking constantly. To make it worse her mum is undergoing chemo for cancer and she has started back at work before she should because she would rather not be at home with the sister. It is an awful situation for everyone involved.
My heart goes out to you & I hope your sister realises she needs help soon for all your sakes.

Yeah, she does have a serious drinking/drug problem -- she's not an addict, but would become one if we let her. One more obstacle. The hardest thing about the disease it that it really makes her so unpleasant to be around. She's mean and abusive and angry. It's hard to be supportive through someone's illness when the symptoms are basically hate and anger.

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:14 pm

Hi waffle - For what it's worth, I was a social worker many years ago, and that period in my life coincided with the beginning of the mass de-institutionalization of the mentally ill. Families then --as now -- were ill-equipped to deal with loved ones who left controlled environments and the oversight of mental health professionals.

While it varies from state to state, there are generally laws addressing the possibility of obtaining legal guardianship of adults who may be deemed incompetent for various reasons. Obtaining legal guardianship of an adult isn't easy or taken lightly though, especially when there may be wealth or assets involved that could be vulnerable to exploitation. But whether or not your sister would meet the criteria where you live is something your family may want to check into. Consulting with an attorney experienced in such matters to find out the possibilities (for not only dealing with your sister's current state, but also dealing with an advancement of her disease), may at least give your family a sense of whether there's any hope for control of the situation.

It's not uncommon for the mentally ill to score high on IQ tests. Unfortunately, they don't always score as well when it comes to social or emotional intelligence. It can (and has) been argued that substance abuse is just the alcoholic's or drug addict's way of self-medicating. Like guapagirl suggested, getting the mentally ill to take medication as directed is one of the biggest challenges, as the bi-polar patient often doesn't like giving up the exhilarating manic phases.

Good luck to you, your sister and your family waffle. This is a trememdous heartache for you all, no doubt about it.

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:31 pm

Waffle, I have a bipolar family member too. I joined NAMI (National Alliance For Mental Illness). They have meetings in tons of cities, which I thought I'd hate, but ended up liking. You should check out their website! Best wishes. Sorry you're having to go through this.

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:41 pm

You should also check local laws, it varies from state to state.

For example, in the state of New York if there is something in a patient's behavior, that can be interpreted as dangerous to the patient himself, or his children, or ...; then that patient can be forced to take medications.

That is not the case in New Jersey.

Also, it is quite typical of patients with bipolar disorder to refuse medications.

If you have a very specific question - please, PM me. My mom is a practicing psychiatrist, and I will try to get you an answer.

I also think these support groups sound good for you and your parents.

Good luck,
Lucy.

free skin care · Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:38 pm

yes, I think I'll start attending NAMI meetings this summer when I'm in a bigger city.
She's having a hearing next week to see if they can force her on meds -- she has been arrested for assault before and has threatened some people (she's tiny and wouldn't do much harm, but still) so I think they might be able to under the "danger to public" exception.
thanks guys, you've actually been a great help.

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