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Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:09 pm  |
I started really paying attention to this forum sometime this past autumn, and the weather was beginning it's decline. So, I've noticed that I have flaky skin on my face, but thought perhaps it was due to the cold weather and the resulting dryness/dehydration. I've been meaning to get a good moisturizer as a final step to combat the flakies, but had not gotten around to it yet. 
It seems that Spring is beginning to kick into gear in the Pacific NW and it is warming up a bit... just into the 50s and today it even got to be 65 degrees. Woo!
So, NOW, I have flaky skin that is also oily! I can't imagine adding a heavier moisturizer to my supposed 'dehydrated' skin when it is developing an oil sheen on it's own. Granted, it's not like I'm dripping oil, but it's enough for me to need to blot it during the day.
What is this about? Does anyone know? I would really love to understand why my skin is like it is. Is it somehow still dehydrated despite being oily now that the weather is changing? I have noticed a reduction in the flakes since I started using Epidermix II, but I am trying to not overuse the stuff. I almost always still have some flakes right after I use it, though much less. I'm trying to not use it everyday, but I could easily scrub at these flakes for 3-4 minutes with the EII on a daily basis (not that I do).
Perhaps the flakes aren't related at all to hydration levels? Maybe this is something internal? I want to try out some MMU, but can't imagine finishing an application without having just created more flakes on my skin with the brush. It's like I can hardly ever achieve a glowing, matte finish to my skin.
Any ideas?  |
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Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:07 pm |
Shawna
Is this a problem you have had for some time? If this is new then maybe you have the same problem I had a couple years ago. The lower part of my face was extremely dry and I tried every cream and scrub I could think of to get rid of the flakes. I would even tap scotch tape on my face to remove the skin (not sure if that a no-no or not) but the flakies were always back the next day. Just happens I had a doctors appointment and he noticed (hard to hide) and gave me a mild cortisone cream and it cleared it up in a couple days and I haven't had a problem since. |
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Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:12 pm |
| Have you tried Sea Kelp Bioferment? It's great for moisturizing oily skin. It won't make you oily. |
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Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:49 pm |
| I'd recommend using a light moisturiser first (seeing still oily skin), then exfoliate with a gentle scrub (i like PTR botanical buffing beads), then use a AHA/BHA toner regularly to help your skin exfoliate better and control the oils. |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:10 am |
Diana, I have had this for some time... a few years I think. I honestly don't know. I used to be so preoccupied with my acne that I didn't notice much else, but since my acne has calmed down a bit I am more aware of other aspects of my skin. I think. Hmmmm. I know what you mean about the scotch tape! I haven't tried that, but I could honestly just sit in front of the mirror and scrape the flakes off with my fingernails. Of course, they'd be back shortly after. :/
Bkkgirl, thanks for the recommendation. I'll look it up!
Sparkle, what is an example of an AHA/BHA toner? My skin is also a bit sensitive, so I wonder if something like this would be too strong?
I read a description somewhere online today that seemed to be accurate for my skin: oily underneath and "dry" on top. It's weird. |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:40 am |
| You can think of your skin as a flat surface dotted with pits (pores). My guess is the flat surface of your skin is too dry (hence flaking). However, your pores are still cranking out a lot of oil. The oil spreads and sits on the flat surface and has a barrier property, but really doesn't hydrate that flat surface (we don't even output sebum until our pubescent years). It's likely you're using a cleanser that's too harsh / washing with water that's too hot / spending too much time in the shower, etc. If so, tone it down some. Also, definitely get a moisturizer. |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:02 am |
| RMB wrote: |
| The oil spreads and sits on the flat surface and has a barrier property, but really doesn't hydrate that flat surface (we don't even output sebum until our pubescent years). |
That's an interesting point RMB - it had never occured to me before that pre-pubescent skin is well hydrated but without sebum. |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:12 am |
| Shawna wrote: |
Diana, I have had this for some time... a few years I think. I honestly don't know. I used to be so preoccupied with my acne that I didn't notice much else, but since my acne has calmed down a bit I am more aware of other aspects of my skin. I think. Hmmmm. I know what you mean about the scotch tape! I haven't tried that, but I could honestly just sit in front of the mirror and scrape the flakes off with my fingernails. Of course, they'd be back shortly after. :/
Bkkgirl, thanks for the recommendation. I'll look it up!
Sparkle, what is an example of an AHA/BHA toner? My skin is also a bit sensitive, so I wonder if something like this would be too strong?
I read a description somewhere online today that seemed to be accurate for my skin: oily underneath and "dry" on top. It's weird. |
something like DDF glycolic toner, or Clinique mild clarifying toner (the only decent, non alcoholic toner from clinique, has 0.5% BHA) |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:51 am |
Thanks, RMB. I'll try keeping the water a little cooler on my face when I wash/shower.
Right now I am using the Zenbiotics cleanser in the evening, no cleanser in the AM. This used to happen to me even when I used the Dr. H cleansing milk and the Anna Bellina cleansers. I doubt these are too harsh....?
It seems like such a tricky balance, trying to keep one layer of my skin hydrated while keeping oil production down with the other. Perhaps I need to see an esthetician who can look at my skin and assess it? I don't know if that would even be worth it or if they could tell me anything you all can't. |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:53 am |
I think you should try to find a water-based moisturizer that really supply water into your skin. Not a balm or morsturizer with a lot of oils.
It is said that the skin spread oil in order to moisturize itself. If you are not moisturized enough(flaky as you said), it would spread more oil in order to stop this. Maybe you became oily because of this. If you could get really moisturized, then the skin would stop spreading so much oil.
And I think a gentle scrub would do some help, as it removes the dead cells in the front and then makes products that you're using sucked better. |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:49 pm |
Just so everyone's clear- I actually do use a mild moisturizer (Zenbiotic's Phyto Moisture) along with the Oxytoner, too.
I had the flakes even when I was using a homemade ACV toner and then jojoba oil for toner/moisture.
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:47 pm |
I'm wondering if an enzymer exfoliator might be better for you than a manual one.
Have you ever tried one?
M |
_________________
I swear, sometimes I feel my sole reason for existence is to prove God has a sense of humor! |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:55 pm |
Spygrrl, can you give me an example of an enzyme exfoliator? If you mean something like JB Green Apple Peel, I might be too sensitive for those.
I have used JB's Green Apple Peel Sensitive once on my forehead for about two minutes, but I felt a moderate burning sensation during and after the application. It also left my forehead red for the rest of the evening.
Otherwise, feel free to suggest particular products!  |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:47 pm |
Shawna -
First, I'm 99% sure I've got this correct, but just in case, you might want to wait until someone comes along to confirm the info.
I'm sure you know this already, but just to make sure I'm remembering this all correctly... there are two main types of exfoliation: mechanical and chemical. Mechanical means manual - using a tool (such as a washcloth or brush) or an ingredient (such as oatmeal) that is abrasive and uses friction to slough off the dead skin cells. Chemical exfoliants further break down into acids and enzymes. Acids include alpha hydroxy acids (AHA) and beta hydroxy acids (BHA). The most popular AHAs are glycolic acid and lactic acid; there is also malic, citric and tartaric acid. The only BHA in use is salicylic acid. The chemical exfoliants "dissolve" bonds somehow...this would take a whole 'nother post to explain, but suffice to say they are supposed to be gentler to sensitive skin than mechanical means.
Juice Beauty Green Apple is a chemical exfoliator that uses alpha hydroxy acids: apple, lemon, grape juices. Plus the ingredient lists mentions raw cane sugar, which sounds to me like a mechanical exfoliant ingredient that would be too harsh on your skin. Frankly, I haven't a clue why something like raw cane sugar would be in their sensitive formulation, but I'm sure there's a reason it's there and I'm just not knowledgeable enough to know why.
An enzyme exfoliant is also chemical, but enzymes are not the same as acids. They are supposed to be gentler on sensitive skin. The most common are papain (from papaya) and bromelain (from pineapple).
I have sensitive skin that looks like either pre-Rosacea or an extremely light version of stage 1 Rosacea, and have been reading up on the forum for a good non-irritating exfoliant. From what I've seen on this site, very highly recommended enzyme exfoliants are:
Dermalogica Daily Microfoliant
Pevonia Enzymo-Spheride Peeling Cream
Also, although this is a mechanical exfoliant, its beads are very small, and it supposed to be very, very gentle:
Peter Thomas Roth Botanical Buffing Beads
All three of these consistently get very high marks and enthusiastic comments here on the forum.
I hope this helps, and good luck!
M |
_________________
I swear, sometimes I feel my sole reason for existence is to prove God has a sense of humor! |
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Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:48 pm |
Your flakiness may be a symptom of seborrheic dermatitis. A common condition that often co-exists with rosacea and acne and can occur even if skin is oily. Regular moisturizer will not help if what you have is seborrheic dermatitis. Check out this site or google it for more info.
http://www.aocd.org/skin/dermatologic_diseases/seborrheic_dermati.html
Many doctors will try to treat seborrheic dermatitis with cortisone. I highly recommend AGAINST using cortisone. Even though it works in the short term, long term side effects of using even low doses (less than 1%) of cortisone ointments include thinning of the skin (hello rapid aging), increase of broken caps, and eventual worsening of rosacea and acne conditions.
I know so much because I had seborrheic dermatitis about 5 years ago. Fortunately, I've got it under control now and have been symptom free for several years. I also have rosacea, which is also under control. Metrogel has been an enormous help for both conditions, and I credit it with being symptom free. Another thing that I'm sure totally helped my seborrheic dermatitis was Aveeno Positively Radiant daily moisturizer with SPF 15 and active soy complex. I have no idea why it worked, but after several times of on again off again use, I am sure that it worked. There is some ingredient in that particular moisturizer that made the flakiness disappear (none of the other Aveeno moisturizers or any other moisturizer for that matter worked). I used the Aveeno Positively Radiant for about 2 to 3 years. After that, I went off of it to try antiaging moisturizers and found that the seborrheic dermatitis never came back. It appears to be gone now |
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Best, Jeannine (40s, fair skin, hazel eyes, sensitive skin). To fight the dread lemming sickness, I promise not to rave about a product until I have used it for a long while. |
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Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:54 am |
Spygrrl, thanks for the description on exfoliators! Honestly, I was not aware of the variations to the degree that you explained them, so I appreciate it.
I wonder if the PSF pumpkin peel is an enzyme or a manual exfoliator?
Also, does anyone know where to get a sample for the Dermalogica Daily Microfoliant?
Jeannine, I actually had a doc diagnosis me with seborrheic dermatitis when I was 16, but I have had no idea of what to do with it. I sometimes get dry/red/inflamed patches at the tops of my cheeks, but otherwise I only experience the flakiness. It does not seem to be severe.
I would love find some good products for this, but honestly am a bit leery of the Aveeno moisturizer you mentioned. I am sure it would break me out. |
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Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:15 am |
Wow. I surely have this.
Can't use that aveeno as the sunscreen would give me a rash. If anyone has thoughts on how to treat this, (withot steroids) let us now!
I'll read the link.
Thank you so much for the info.
| Jeannine wrote: |
Your flakiness may be a symptom of seborrheic dermatitis. A common condition that often co-exists with rosacea and acne and can occur even if skin is oily. Regular moisturizer will not help if what you have is seborrheic dermatitis. Check out this site or google it for more info.
http://www.aocd.org/skin/dermatologic_diseases/seborrheic_dermati.html
Many doctors will try to treat seborrheic dermatitis with cortisone. I highly recommend AGAINST using cortisone. Even though it works in the short term, long term side effects of using even low doses (less than 1%) of cortisone ointments include thinning of the skin (hello rapid aging), increase of broken caps, and eventual worsening of rosacea and acne conditions.
I know so much because I had seborrheic dermatitis about 5 years ago. Fortunately, I've got it under control now and have been symptom free for several years. I also have rosacea, which is also under control. Metrogel has been an enormous help for both conditions, and I credit it with being symptom free. Another thing that I'm sure totally helped my seborrheic dermatitis was Aveeno Positively Radiant daily moisturizer with SPF 15 and active soy complex. I have no idea why it worked, but after several times of on again off again use, I am sure that it worked. There is some ingredient in that particular moisturizer that made the flakiness disappear (none of the other Aveeno moisturizers or any other moisturizer for that matter worked). I used the Aveeno Positively Radiant for about 2 to 3 years. After that, I went off of it to try antiaging moisturizers and found that the seborrheic dermatitis never came back. It appears to be gone now |
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Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:17 pm |
Jakee and Shawna, Many of the references to seborrheic dermatitis note that it is related to dandruff, cradle cap, and some other conditions. I would think that the things used to treat those problems may be helpful. For example, maybe washing the problem areas with original formula Head & Shoulders. Cleansers with sulfur may also be helpful. Also, I'm not sure but I do think that Vitamin C serum has been one of the reasons that I haven't had any symptoms of flakiness.
| jakee wrote: |
Wow. I surely have this.
Can't use that aveeno as the sunscreen would give me a rash. If anyone has thoughts on how to treat this, (withot steroids) let us now!
I'll read the link.
Thank you so much for the info. |
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Best, Jeannine (40s, fair skin, hazel eyes, sensitive skin). To fight the dread lemming sickness, I promise not to rave about a product until I have used it for a long while. |
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Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:52 pm |
| seborrheic dermatitis is also linked to increased candida growth, so antifungal essential oils such as tea tree are effective for a lot of people too. I plan on trying my new osea corrective complex EO blend on my seborrheic dermatitis...although it hasn't flared up in a while. |
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mid 20's, dry in winter, combo in summer, acne prone, dehydrated, rarrrr! |
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Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:00 pm |
Waffle, what is your skincare routine these days? Please let me know how you like that Osea product. I actually have some Osea samples en route to me now!
Jeannine, I actually don't have an issue with dandruff... not since I started using raw ACV on my scalp. I've thought about trying a Vit C serum but assumed that my skin would be too sensitive for it. |
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Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:07 am |
I sympathise with you for having flaking skin but oiliness as well. I have dehydrated skin now but oily too.
I use to get severe flaking (especially during my pregnancies) - for me, it was certainly hormonal. I also have an extremely sensitive scalp - anything with fragrance or sls will cause me to itch like crazy (and flake).
The following helped for me -
Jurlique wrinkle softener (which although did squat diddly for my wrinkles, did help with the flakes)
Dr H Rose cream (also helped with flakes but made me glow too much - so used more at night)
Vitamin supplements - zinc, vitamin b, fish oil. I find if I don't take these, my dermatitis on my scalp goes nuts.
I also eliminated facial products which have any artificial fragrance.
Hope some of these suggestions help. |
_________________
Look younger???? What the???? I would be happy with not looking any older!! Living in desperate hope. |
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Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:35 pm |
Check out Atopalm products -- they are meant to replace prescription cortisone creams prescribed for seborrheic dermatits, roseaca, and other facial skin problems -- but WITHOUT the terrible side effects from long-term use. I don't see them on EDS but they are at Skinstore and Skinwest. They have cleansers and everything. I just got the Atopalm MLE cream to help with flaking when using retin A products like Differin. It's an emulsion cream so it goes on VERY non-greasy and should be just fine for oily folks. I too, (but I have drier skin with oily T-zone) was having perpetual flaking although I think mine was sublter than yours sounds. But I've DEFINITELY noticed a difference since using the Atopalm.
Also, if seborrehic dermatitis is candida related, try taking and/or drinking acidolphulous. I switched to drinking 2% acidolhoulous milk (tastes just like regular 2% milk) after turning 30 and having a sudden onslaught of yeast infections and that took care of it -- but I drink milk everyday. If you're not a milk drinker get some capsules. It's also very good for your digestive system - it promotes the "good" bacteria in your system.
Finally, on the advice of girls in this forum, I began shaving my face regularly which helps a lot too. I was afraid the hair would grow back dark and thick -- the girls assured me it does not and they were absolutely right! It definitely helps keep the flakies down since it exfoliates, and I think products penetrate better and my skin looks better overall.
Hope this helps! |
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Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:04 am |
Shawna, maybe a gentle ACV-based mister/toner would also help the flakies. There are some recipes in the DIY forum.
Serendipity, that's great advice about the vitamins and supplements. I've been symptom free, but I'm not sure what exactly is doing the trick (it's probably a combo of things). I had thought it was mostly the Metrogel and Vit. C lately, but now that you mention it, I have been taking prenatal vitamins with zinc, Vit. B, etc., as well as acidophoulis and organic plain yogurt.
| Shawna wrote: |
...
Jeannine, I actually don't have an issue with dandruff... not since I started using raw ACV on my scalp. I've thought about trying a Vit C serum but assumed that my skin would be too sensitive for it. |
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Best, Jeannine (40s, fair skin, hazel eyes, sensitive skin). To fight the dread lemming sickness, I promise not to rave about a product until I have used it for a long while. |
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Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:17 am |
Thanks, everyone!
Yeah, I do a very good quality probiotic, zinc, cod liver oil, healthy organic diet, etc. I am just beginning B vits today, as I have been allergic to them for most of my life, so I'm curious to see how that goes. I don't do dairy, due to an allergy there, too.
I have been using raw ACV in DIY toners for my face for a long time and it does help, but it's not a problem solver. Works wonders on my scalp, though!
I'm still too scared about the idea of shaving my face! |
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Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:43 pm |
| a visit to the dermatolgist may be useful |
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