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Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:27 pm  |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Do you know what it is caused by? |
It was caused by dermabrasion. Hypo or hyper-pigmentation are potential side effects. |
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Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:32 pm |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Do you know what it is caused by? |
It was caused by dermabrasion. Hypo or hyper-pigmentation are potential side effects. |
In that case, I would definitely try using a longer needle roller on the patches. Good luck, let us know how you go. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:45 am |
| I used the .5 roller last night and when I use this my face gets little poke marks with blood. Does that happen you any of you? Am I pushing to hard. The last thing I want to do is push to hard and disrupt the collagen making process that I started when using the 1.5 roller. I am on a hiatus from the 1.5 now and only using the .5 every other day. What do you think. My face is pink today. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:23 am |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| I used the .5 roller last night and when I use this my face gets little poke marks with blood. Does that happen you any of you? Am I pushing to hard. The last thing I want to do is push to hard and disrupt the collagen making process that I started when using the 1.5 roller. I am on a hiatus from the 1.5 now and only using the .5 every other day. What do you think. My face is pink today. |
I'm also having a break from using the 1.5 roller but am continuing using the .5, however, I don't get any needle marks or blood spots. I'm also using the .5 after applying my products. If you are concerned I would just do a very gentle roll and lengthen the time between rolls. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:51 am |
| mogulicious wrote: |
mogulicious wrote:
The printed material that came with the Dermarollers.us models indicates that 1.0 can be used once weekly, and 2.0 once every three weeks.
MB935 wrote: I have the 2.0 from this company and I dont remember reading that... does it then say when to take a break??? Cause Ive already rolled twice in 2 weeks...
I guess most of us are confused on how often to use these things... Its almost annoying because none of us want this tool to be a waste of time in the end (delaying or even ruining hte collagen production process)...
THANKS - I read that info too - must have been watching tv or something at the same time....
So for the 2.0 - once a month about 3 to 4 months. Stop and then begin again maybe the following year????
MB935, I located the papers from dermarollers.us. Here's a brief summary:
The chart lists minimum time between treatments and recommended time between treatments:
.25 1 day minimum; 2-3 days recommended
.5mm 3 days minimum, 5-7 days recommended
1.0 1 week minimum, 2-4 weeks recommended
1.5 2 weeks minumum, 4-6 weeks recommended
2.0 3 weeks min, 4-6 weeks rec
2.5 4 weeks min, 4-6 weeks rec
The number of treatments will depend on the skin condition. Three to four treatments are recommended. Depending on the results, treatment may be repeated to achieve maximum results. The formation of new collagen requires time to mature, it is therefore recommended to do each CIT treatment 4-6 weeks apart. And an annual upkeep treatment should also be considered. The home care dermaroller (.25 & .50) in combination with skin care products can be used in between treatments with the medical dermaroller (1.0 +), this will enhance the results of CIT treatments. It is also recommended to take vitamin C supplements since vit c is essential to the collagen production. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:20 am |
| mb935 - on another page it states that use of the 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 & 2.5 can safely be repeated for better results, it does not permanently damage the skin, and "if the result after the percutaneous collagen induction is not satisfactory to the patient, it can be repeated without any risk." I'm treating scars and hypo-pigmentation, so in my case, more than 3-4 initial treatments may be necessary - we shall see. |
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born in 1957, fair complexion |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:41 am |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| I used the .5 roller last night and when I use this my face gets little poke marks with blood. Does that happen you any of you? Am I pushing to hard. The last thing I want to do is push to hard and disrupt the collagen making process that I started when using the 1.5 roller. I am on a hiatus from the 1.5 now and only using the .5 every other day. What do you think. My face is pink today. |
This could be "normal" - everyone's skin is different. Did you get blood and poke marks with the 1.5mm roller as well as the .5mm?
Follow the recommendations posted recently about how often to use.
| Quote: |
.5mm - 3 days minimum, 5-7 days recommended
1.5 - 2 weeks minumum, 4-6 weeks recommended |
So the question is when did you last roll with the 1.5mm? Did you do the .5mm very soon after your 1.5mm roll? Also I would switch your .5mm to every 3 days (see the minimum recommendation). |
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42yo, natural strawberry blonde so fair skin, blue-eyed, and dry skin |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:57 am |
| mogulicious wrote: |
| mb935 - on another page it states that use of the 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 & 2.5 can safely be repeated for better results, it does not permanently damage the skin, and "if the result after the percutaneous collagen induction is not satisfactory to the patient, it can be repeated without any risk." I'm treating scars and hypo-pigmentation, so in my case, more than 3-4 initial treatments may be necessary - we shall see. |
Thanks (i screwed up that last post - typed in someone else's response...)
Anyway - so then I guess if I were to keep going for a couple more months - i wouldnt be damaging or prohibiting the collagen production?? So like 6 months of rolling - 6 months of a break etc... (i know i cant make that descision now without seeing what results I get - but Im just assuming... |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:09 pm |
Hi Girls,
As I wrote earlier somewhere in this topic I've got my Roller last week and also I've got the filler to nasolabial folds same time.
Please be patient  - my story seems to be unrelated, but it IS related to DermaRoller topic.
The funny thing happened to me - left side of my face looks perfect (no wrinkles), right side got wrinkle from nose down (where nasolabial fold suppose to be). I called the doctor (pretty upset) and went to follow-up today. He added some more filler (Teosyal, which is 100% Hyaluronic Acid). The wrinkle didn't go away. He explained me that I have skin structure on this spot that push filler out. He suggested me to massage it and also he suggested to pick it with needle, so maybe filler will spread eventually on some point. And here comes my question (finally  ) - if I roll on this spot with DermaRoller, will it help?
Thanks in advance. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:18 pm |
mb935 wrote: Anyway - so then I guess if I were to keep going for a couple more months - i wouldnt be damaging or prohibiting the collagen production?? So like 6 months of rolling - 6 months of a break etc... (i know i cant make that descision now without seeing what results I get - but Im just assuming...
[b]that's my take on it - and ok to use the .25 or .5 for product penetration in between big rolls (the instructions state to apply products prior to rolling with the smaller rollers, then again after the roll). |
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born in 1957, fair complexion |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:41 pm |
| Tanya... ask the doctor if this is a good thing to do on that side of your face. I would not want to screw up the injection. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:17 pm |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| Tanya... ask the doctor if this is a good thing to do on that side of your face. I would not want to screw up the injection. |
Actually , I planned to ask him.
But after I asked him , if taking orally Hyaluronic Acid supplement will increase collagen production and plumps the lips, I've got his response "No. This is BS".  I read all 43 pages of "Eureka -- I've found the ultimate lip plumper!!" topic - girls proved opposite.
After his response I changed my mind and didn't ask him about DermaRoller. I understood that if he can't sell it to me, he doesn't recommend it. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:47 pm |
Dermarollers.us emailed the following:
THANK YOU FOR YOUR DERMAROLLER PURCHASE
If you are not already familiar with the dermaroller product, please take a few minutes to read the accompanying literature and learn more.
The dermaroller is a simple, yet innovative hand tool that can help with many skin problems such as acne scars, hyper pigmentation, aged skin, stretch marks, and more.
Summary About the dermaroller
Skin needling with the dermaroller can be performed on the skin of any part of the body including the scalp. The roller is inlayed with 192 very fine stainless steel needles, available in different lengths..
Mechanism of action
By rolling the dermaroller on the skin, micro punctures and channels are created. This serves two purposes. First, it induces collagen/elastin production naturally by the skin through the release of growth factors. Second, by applying a topical cream/lotion/serum on the skin and rolling the dermaroller over it, absorption and penetration of active ingredients is enhanced hundreds of times (normal skin absorption of topical application is as low as 0.3%) as they seep deep into the skin through the micro channels exerting their beneficial effects.
Indications
Effective in:
. Smoothening fine lines and wrinkles.
. Pores size reduction.
. Improving scars caused by acne/chicken pox/trauma.
. Improving the appearance of stretch marks/striae/cellulite.
. Improving skin texture as a result of firmer and more lifted skin.
. Reducing skin pigmentation and enhancing whitening of skin through appropriate active ingredient delivery.
. Treating alopecia (hair loss) for both men and women.
Contra-Indications
Do not use on irritated skin, infected skin, active acne, rosacea, eczema, psoriasis, raised moles, warts, open wounds or sores. If unsure, consult a doctor before use.
The dermaroller is for exclusive personal use only. Do not share it with anyone else.
Do not apply ingredients that you are sensitive to on the face.
Keep it out of the reach of children and animals.
Precautions:
Avoid eyes area. If persistent redness or irritation occurs, discontinue use and consult a doctor or skin care professional.
Directions for use (These are general recommended directions. If you doctor/skin care professional has provided you with specific directions, follow those instead)
Home care (needle length 0.5mm and below)
- Clean skin before use. Divide the treatment areas into sub-divisions, e.g. the forehead, cheeks, nose, chin, neck etc, treating each sub-division one at a time.
- Mix a sufficient amount of topical products and apply on the sub-division to be treated.
- Roll the dermaroller on the sub-division as shown, 4 - 10 times in each direction, horizontally, vertically and diagonally.
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- Apply topical products onto the skin again after treatment.
Medical use (needle length 1.0mm and above)
- Clean skin before use. Divide the treatment areas into sub-divisions, e.g. the forehead, cheeks, nose, chin, neck etc, treating each sub-division one at a time.
- Apply numbing cream/gel and wait the indicated time for the anesthetic to take effect. Remove any excess cream/gel before proceeding to rolling.
- Roll the dermaroller on the sub-division as shown, 4 - 10 times in each direction, horizontally, vertically and diagonally.
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It is recommended to take vitamin C supplements while doing collagen induction therapy (CIT) treatments. Vitamin C is essential in the production of collagen.
Do not use excessive force when rolling the dermaroller onto the skin. Use only mild pressure.
Start using the home care dermaroller once or twice per week. Once your skin gets more used to it, you may increase treatment frequency.
The longer the needle length, the more you should wait in between treatments. See table below for recommended time you should wait between treatments, if unsure, consult a doctor before use.
Needle Length
Minimum time between treatments
Recommended time between treatments
Home Care
0.25mm
1 day
2 – 3 days
0.5mm
3 days
5 – 7 days
Medical Care
1.0mm
1 week
2 – 4 weeks
1.5mm
2 weeks
4 – 6 weeks
2.0mm
3 weeks
4 – 6 weeks
2.5mm
4 weeks
4 – 6 weeks
Post Treatment
. Mask, moisturizer and sun-screens may be applied after treatment.
. Mild erythema, warmth, swelling and sensitivity of the skin may be experienced post treatment. Consult a doctor if in doubt.
Maintenance of dermaroller
- Rinse the dermaroller with tepid water after use.
- Soak the head of roller in an anti-septic solution such as alcohol for about 5 minutes. Let dry completely before storing in the protective casing provided.
Do not store dermaroller in casing until completely dry.
Do not expose it to very high temperatures.
Specifications
Roller Body: Diameter 20mm
192 medical grade stainless steel needles
Advanced superior sterilization by EO Gas, non-toxic, pyrogen free
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The different dermaroller models available
Dermarollers are available in several needle lengths.
Those that have a needle length of 0.5mm and below are usually classified as home care, while those with a needle length of 1.0mm and above are classified as medical care.
PERSONAL HOME USE – can be used at home whenever you wish
0.25mm dermaroller
Used to enhance effective delivery of skin care products into the skin
The treatment is virtually pain free
Apply your cosmetic on the skin and roll it in
The process stimulates physiological responses
It can be used by yourself at home or anywhere
There is no damage to the skin
It can be used on thin skin
Improves overall skin texture and color
CLINIC USE – experience an increase in hair growth
0.5mm dermaroller
Promote new hair growth in 3 months
Men treated with the 0.5mm dermaroller experienced an increase in hair growth and an average 80% reduction in hair loss.
Improved cell-growth
Optimized effects
Minimal dosage
Perfect flow-characteristics
One daily treatment only
Best value for the best price
MEDICAL USE – skin remodeling
1.0mm, 1.5mm, 2.0mm and 2.5mm dermarollers
There is a very short healing period.
It can safely be repeated for better results.
It can be used on laser resurfaced skin.
The first advantage is that this procedure does not permanently damage the skin.
The skin actually becomes thicker.
Low cost alternative to more expensive procedures.
Sun-sensitivity is a major and enduring problem in laser resurfacing, whereas after needling of the skin, the horny layer rapidly returns to its original thickness and the skin is not as sensitive to the sun..
If the result after the percutaneous collagen induction is not satisfactory to the patient, it can be repeated without any risk.
What needle length should I use?
Your doctor/skin care professional should indicate which needle roller is the most appropriate for the condition you wish to treat. Below are some examples.
Needle length
Uses
0.25mm
Increased penetration of skin care products into the skin and overall improvement of skin color and texture, thinning hair
0.5mm
Increased penetration, less invasive CIT. Alopecia, wrinkles, mild pigmentation, general skin rejuvenation
1.0mm, 1.5mm
Standard CIT. Acne/chicken pox scars, stretch marks, wrinkles, elasticity decline, cellulite, pigmentation
2.0mm, 2.5mm
More aggressive CIT for more severe cases, deep scars and wrinkles, rejuvenation of ruined skin
HOME CARE DEMAROLLER – 0.5mm and below
Use of the home care dermaroller increases effective delivery of active ingredients in skin care products by hundreds of times. It improves overall skin texture and color. It helps you achieve faster results with your existing skin care products by dramatically increasing their effectiveness.
MEDICAL USE DERMAROLLER – 1.0mm and above
Collagen Induction Therapy (CIT)
As the name implies it, collagen induction therapy (CIT) is a procedure that stimulates the production of new collagen in the skin.
Various ablative procedures, such as dermabrasion, acid peeling, and laser resurfacing have been used for skin rejuvenation. These ablative procedures have many disadvantages and risks. For one, the protective epidermis is removed. Once the epidermis is removed, the skin is fully exposed to elements in the environment such as dirt, bacteria, etc.
These procedures are expensive and have many disadvantages. The epidermis is removed, skin becomes thinner, long healing time, high sun sensitivity, high risks and side effects, possible hyperpigmentation and/or depigmentation, possible new scars, and further treatments may not be possible due to the skin becoming too thin..
CIT changes all that. CIT works differently, the treatment is very simple. When the dermaroller is rolled over the skin, the very fine needles create hundreds of deep microscopic channels, which stimulate the body’s own functions to produce collagen.
When the skin is micro needled, a reaction occurs, chemical compositions, protein and growth factors are released by skin cells. A migration of proliferated cells occurs to the injury where they transform into collagen fibers.
The advantages of CIT with the dermaroller over traditional ablative procedures are obvious: the epidermis stays intact, the skin actually becomes thicker, healing time is very short, no post treatment pain, little or no sun sensitivity, no reported risks or side effects, treatment can be repeated as often as necessary and the cost is very low compared to other procedures.
Unlike ablative procedures, CIT can be performed on all skin areas and may be repeated many times.
During a CIT treatment, the epidermis will stay intact and the microscopic channels created during the procedure will close within minutes. After a CIT treatment, the face will be red, this will fade in a day or two.
The number of CIT treatments will depend on the skin condition. Three to four treatments are recommended. Depending on the results, treatment may be repeated to achieve maximum results.
The formation of new collagen requires time to mature, it is therefore recommended to do each CIT treatment 4-6 apart. And an annual upkeep treatment should also be considered.
It is also recommended to take vitamin C supplements since vitamin C is essential to the collagen production.
The home care dermaroller in combination with skin care products can be in used in between treatments with the medical dermaroller, this will enhance the results of CIT treatments.
Stretch Marks / Striae
Stretch marks or striae are caused by skin stretching during rapid growth. This occurs most often during puberty and pregnancy. When the skin over stretches, it ruptures and these ruptures become scars. At first, stretch marks appear red to purple in color, as time goes by, they usually become white. Unfortunately, stretch marks are permanent and are not easy to treat. Traditional treatments with lasers or creams usually yield little results. Stretch marks do not affect any function of the body; however, they can be unsightly and this can lead to emotional distress.
CIT offers new hope in the treatment of stretch marks. The results from micro needling with a dermaroller to treat stretch marks have been very positive and beyond expectations.
Acne Scars
Acne is a common skin condition. It affects more than 85% of teenagers and often continues into adulthood.
In many cases, acne can also leave permanent scars. Acne scars can have a very psychological impact on the person suffering from this condition.
Acne scars are difficult and expensive to treat.
CIT with the dermaroller has been used effectively to treat and reduce the appearance of acne scars. This is an easy, very cost effective procedure with no down time.
Important Note: Acne must be completely healed before performing acne scar treatment with the dermaroller,
Hyper Pigmentation
Hyperpigmentation is caused by increased melanin concentration on an area of the skin, which makes it appear darker than the surrounding area. Though hyperpigmentation usually fades away with time, in some cases this can be permanent.
The results from treating hyper pigmentation with CIT have been very good. After a couple of treatments the skin usually returns to its normal pigmentation.
Sunscreen should be used after the CIT procedure and sun exposure should be avoided in general.
Wrinkles
Wrinkles typically appear as a result of the aging process. As we age, our skin becomes thinner and loses elasticity. The degradation of collagen that comes with aging leads to wrinkles.
CIT by means of micro needling can help stop this by promoting cell regeneration.
The number of treatments required will depend on the individual’s skin condition. Initially one to three CIT treatments is advised. And an annual upkeep treatment should be considered.
As always, it is best to avoid direct sun exposure. Sunscreen should always be used when doing outdoors activities.
Hair Loss
The derma roller can be used by itself or in combination with products such as Minoxidil, Rogaine or similar products. Used by itself it can stimulate collagen production and fine hairs. When used in combination with hair loss products, their effectiveness is increased due to enhanced penetration of active ingredients into the scalp produced by using the dermaroller.
The way the dermaroller is rolled on the scalp is a little different than when used on other parts of the body.
- Wash scalp and dry very well.
- Roll the derma roller gently over the same area only in one direction 2-3 times. (Rolling back and forth will cause existing hair to tangle in the roller). Roll away from the hair root. Use your hands to keep existing hair out of the way as much as possible.
- Apply hair loss product and massage.
Repeat treatment once a day or as directed by a professional.
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born in 1957, fair complexion |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:22 pm |
| mogulicious wrote: |
Dermarollers.us emailed the following:
THANK YOU FOR YOUR DERMAROLLER PURCHASE
If you are not already familiar with the dermaroller product, please take a few minutes to read the accompanying literature and learn more.
...
Directions for use (These are general recommended directions. If you doctor/skin care professional has provided you with specific directions, follow those instead)
...
HOME CARE DEMAROLLER – 0.5mm and below
Use of the home care dermaroller increases effective delivery of active ingredients in skin care products by hundreds of times. It improves overall skin texture and color. It helps you achieve faster results with your existing skin care products by dramatically increasing their effectiveness.
MEDICAL USE DERMAROLLER – 1.0mm and above
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I wonder who guided them that the .5mm roller was classified as home care? Both of the inventing doctors classify .15mm as home care, and .5mm and up as medical. But everything is open to interpretation, and I am sure they want to sell more!
Maybe I'll write and ask.  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:10 pm |
This question is in regards to rollers 1.0 and above.
I've read that some use this weekly or every other week for 6-8 treatments then take a break. If collagen takes several weeks to form isn't it counter productive to roll so often? |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:28 pm |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
This question in regards to rollers 1.0 and above.
I've read that some use this weekly or every other week for 6-8 treatments then take a break. If collagen takes several weeks to form isn't it counter productive to roll so often? |
GG, this is a very sound question and it has come up a number of times. ScotsLass asked this very question to the inventor of the dermaroller, and his reply is detailed below. BTW, it actually takes 8-12 months for the collagen to develop and mature completely.
| Quote: |
Hello Mr. Liebl,
In my quest to learn more about your DermaRoller and CIT process I have read through your website and found it very informative. However, I am a little uncertain about a few issues concerning the treatment protocol with the 1.5 mm size, and hope you can share some additional details with me.
I understand that the entire process of how the Dermaroller works is based on the wound-healing cycle and that a cascade of actions is stimulated by the micro-injuries created by the DermaRoller in the dermis. I’ve read several articles that describe the three phases of wound healing (Inflammation, Proliferation, Maturation). However, I am not clear on one issue. When a new sheet of collagen is laid down just above the dermis and is populating with Collagen Type III for approximately 21 days from the onset of the “injury”, it then slowly converts from Type III to Type I. From that point on, the collagen fibers composed of Type I begin to strengthen and the greatest effects of skin remodeling take place and continue to do so for upwards of a year (or longer).
Based on this, I am wondering how it is possible to tell so early on after an initial DermaRoller treatment if you require another treatment (or more) 4 to 6 weeks later. The Maturation phase extends beyond 4 to 6 weeks and this is when the greatest results are developing and become more visable….right?
Essentially how can you ’see’ results that haven’t had a chance to mature yet?
I am also wondering why just 3 treatments instead of 4 or 6, etc., should additional treatments be deemed necessary. Is the Maturation phase interrupted in some way by incorporating additional treatments with the 1.5 mm too close together? Some other ‘experts’ are claiming that the 1.5 mm size can be used several times a week for an indefinite period of time. But this just does not make ANY sense to me based on the wound-healing cascade and life cycle.
I am truly hoping that you can help me understand the reasoning behind the different Treatment Instructions for the 1.5 mm and why they should be stopped after 3 procedures during the first year of using the DermaRoller.
Thank you so much for your time and help. I look forward to hearing back from you.
Regards,
Lorraine
(Quote from website) “According to the individual skin condition, 1 to 3 procedures, separated by 4 to 6 weeks, are sufficient to resurface the skin. As aging continues, we recommend one refresher-CIT every year. Between the CITs and after the last one, you can support the results of the CIT by using the Home Care Dermaroller in combination with high-end peptide serums.” |
| Quote: |
Dear Lorraine,
Thank you very much indeed for your thoughtful mail. I have received thousands, but never such a detailed concern. Let me explain what we know so far. It is widely believed that skin reacts to needling by the wound healing cascade. But if one looks closer and goes more in cell biology than the picture suddenly changes dramatically. First we have to answer the question what is an injury? The best definition would be: The disruption of tissue integrity. Now the next question would be: Does a fine, precisely tooled, non traumatic needle cause an injury? Yes and no. Certainly cells may be damaged and capillaries may be punctured. A wound can only heal, when certain skin cells are stimulated by signals be become active. If there is a bleeding wound, naturally TGF (transmitted Growth Factors), usually transported by blood platelets, would send signals to various cells to become active, and in the end fibroblasts would transform into collagen fibers for wound closure. This we would call wound repair by fibrosis. Until this point school of thoughts is clear.
But if we have a closer look at needling that does not go further the average thickness of the dermis of about 1,5 mm, the picture changes dramatically. Although needles may puncture some capillaries, that are “emptied” by visible petechiae on the surface, their TGF amount would not be sufficient to trigger wound healing. Matter of fact, if skin cells receive injury signals transmitted by nerve cells (about 200 per square centimeter just below the basal membrane), they release also TGF. Unfortunately this is widely unknown.
We made experiments for years with MatTek and Biosciences in he USA in order to find out what causes new collagen formation in the dermis. We used cultured skin cells (without blood vessels, and therefore without TGF that derivate from platelets)) and needled it in various depths. By measuring the electrical skin resistance first we could see a significant change in electrical conductivity between intra- and extra cellular signal exchange. We clearly could harvest new collagen fibers after needling. Why they differ in amount – we do not know (yet).
The needling interval is a good question and we do not have yet the right answer. But if one looks at the fast response to needling of acne scars, we know that an interval of about 6 weeks is sufficient. Personally I am more on your side and I would like to see longer intervals. But at present, in so called modern times, we have a problem: people are impatient and they “want it now”. Although you should not forget, many physicians are often pushed for fast results. They actually should be the protagonists and tell people to be patient. However, why should a new cell formation influence the previous needle induced ones?
As all cases are different we only can give guidelines, but patient and physician in the end must decide. Also do not forget one point: The average knowledge of physiology. People are impatient and most of them are not interested in what happens in their body. We live in competitive times of individuals, and each one wants to be the first and best looking. This is the reason behind why we publish only fractions of medical knowledge.
Even for physicians needling and its mechanism of action is widely unknown. I just came back from a lecture and workshop and only after the lecture, they suddenly stood up and admitted that “they did not know how cell biology works”.
I hope that this answers your questions to some extent. If you have more, please do not hesitate to contact me again. Then I shall guide to to the right articles to get a closer picture.
Last but not least. To any ablative, cutting or cell damaging procedure the body will respond with its repair mechanism – fibrosis, an unformatted bundle like collagen. To micro needling (provided the right needles are used) the body responds with cell regeneration and new collagen that integrates into the existing collagen formation and its cross linked pattern. It is as simply as that.
Best regards
Horst Liebl
http://dermaroller.wordpress.com/category/treatment-cycles/
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However, the other inventor Dr, Fernandes recommendes a different protocol....note that he says nothing here about repeating it in 3 months. However I have seen him recommend annual refreshers in other articles.
BTW, the article quoted below is one of the best that I have read because it details the pre-and post-roll protocols that people should follow for maximum improvement.
| Quote: |
Normal medical needling uses 3mm needles to penetrate deeper into the skin, usually causing bruising and swelling. The micro-needling procedure, however, uses needles that only penetrate to a maximum of 1mm, causing minimal swelling and virtually no bruising. Microneedling allows you to return to work the day after treatment with no outward signs other than some flushed skin similar to that caused by exposure to the sun. The procedure consists of a series of six micro-needling sessions carried out at intervals ranging from one week to one month, depending on the required degree of improvement.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/2004/environ1mmNeedling1.pdf |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:30 pm |
This article discusses a number of needling research studies, wound healing, and mesotherapy lifts (with pics)
Micro Needling and Injecting Platelet Rich Plasma to Enhance Collagen Synthesis and Skin Tightening.
Author: Joseph F. Greco, PhD, PA/C
http://www.microneedle.com/main/MTS_Roller_PRP_Paper_by_DrGre |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:08 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
This question in regards to rollers 1.0 and above.
I've read that some use this weekly or every other week for 6-8 treatments then take a break. If collagen takes several weeks to form isn't it counter productive to roll so often? |
GG, this is a very sound question and it has come up a number of times. ScotsLass asked this very question to the inventor of the dermaroller, and his reply is detailed below. BTW, it actually takes 8-12 months for the collagen to develop and mature completely.
However, the other inventor Dr, Fernandes recommendes a different protocol....note that he says nothing here about repeating it in 3 months. However I have seen him recommend annual refreshers in other articles.
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Bethany, thank so much I had seen the first article but not the 2nd.
This link does not seem to work: http://www.microneedle.com/main/MTS_Roller_PRP_Paper_by_DrGre |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:48 am |
| I have read many times in the literature for CIT to use vit c. I use the serum and tazorac. I am going to begin to take vit. c. Am I just slow here, does everyone take extra vit. c? I take a small dose in my multi vit, but want to up that. Whats the verdict on the c? |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:41 pm |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| I have read many times in the literature for CIT to use vit c. I use the serum and tazorac. I am going to begin to take vit. c. Am I just slow here, does everyone take extra vit. c? I take a small dose in my multi vit, but want to up that. Whats the verdict on the c? |
From what I have read you should take 1,000 mg of vit C. |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:17 pm |
| I am taking now 1000 mgs. Is that what you are taking? |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:31 pm |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
This question in regards to rollers 1.0 and above.
I've read that some use this weekly or every other week for 6-8 treatments then take a break. If collagen takes several weeks to form isn't it counter productive to roll so often? |
GG, this is a very sound question and it has come up a number of times. ScotsLass asked this very question to the inventor of the dermaroller, and his reply is detailed below. BTW, it actually takes 8-12 months for the collagen to develop and mature completely.
However, the other inventor Dr, Fernandes recommendes a different protocol....note that he says nothing here about repeating it in 3 months. However I have seen him recommend annual refreshers in other articles.
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Bethany, thank so much I had seen the first article but not the 2nd.
This link does not seem to work: |
Try this one!
http://www.microneedle.com/main/MTS_Roller_PRP_Paper_by_DrGreco.pdf#pagemode=thumbs%26page=1 |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:13 pm |
I'm getting confused about what products to use after rolling.
I've mostly read that you should use Vit C and retin-a (I use tazorac). An article that was posted back on page 29 said not to use ascorbic acid but effective Vit C serums are made with ascorbic acid.
I'm also not sure I can imagine using C serum and/or tazorac after rolling with out it adding some major irritation.
So I really don't know what to use after. Any advice please? |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:58 pm |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
I'm getting confused about what products to use after rolling.
I've mostly read that you should use Vit C and retin-a (I use tazorac). An article that was posted back on page 29 said not to use ascorbic acid but effective Vit C serums are made with ascorbic acid.
I'm also not sure I can imagine using C serum and/or tazorac after rolling with out it adding some major irritation.
So I really don't know what to use after. Any advice please? |
GG, oil soluble Vit Cs actually out perform the ascorbic C's and are less irritating. And keep in mind that you don't actually have to use anything right after you roll if you don't want to.
After reading what the doctors do when doing medical rolls, I now do:
- CP's an hour after my roll (only because I can't handle the Vit A right after the roll), and then apply squalane 30 mins after that
- Vit C the next morning
- Vit A (retinol from) that night
- I repeat the Vit C/Vit A protocol for a few days, and then use Retin A one night.
- Then I go back to my regular routine and alternate my topicals as usual. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:04 pm |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
I'm getting confused about what products to use after rolling.
I've mostly read that you should use Vit C and retin-a (I use tazorac). An article that was posted back on page 29 said not to use ascorbic acid but effective Vit C serums are made with ascorbic acid.
I'm also not sure I can imagine using C serum and/or tazorac after rolling with out it adding some major irritation.
So I really don't know what to use after. Any advice please? |
This question comes up all the time and everyone has their own preferences. The only consistent advice from the doctors is to use Vitamins A, C and E. Some people do use Vitamin C serum after rolling but I have never tried this as I use CPs at night. I apply the Vitamin C in the morning.
Directly after rolling I apply a cocktail of anti-oxidants (whatever I have on hand). At the moment, I'm using Skinactives Let's Make Collagen, Skinactives Anti-oxident Booster, SKB, CP and Vitamin E oil. I mix all this up in the palm of my hand and apply. I then wait 30mins. My theory is to get as much nourishment into the skin whilst the micro-channels are open. If the SKB feels tight on my skin I sometimes wipe the face gently with rosewater. I then apply Retin-A, wait another 30mins and apply John Masters Pomegranate Oil. I do find that the Retin-A causes allot of peeling, however, I've never experienced any kind of irritation. |
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