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free skin care · Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:40 pm

I went to the craft store today and bought a pack of 4, size 15, beading needles. They are longer and much thinner than sewing needles. The tips of them look like the needles on my dermaroller. The package made no mention of gauge or mm so I can't report that. I think this will work nicely for me and the pack of 4 was only about $2.

For those of you who are wondering, I haven't purchased the single needle from owndoc because the single needle only comes with a dermaroller purchase. I already have all the dermarollers I need. Even if it was sold separately, I probably wouldn't buy it because I would have to pay shipping from UK to US.

free skin care · Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:05 pm

HI everyone,

has anyone in the UK managed to find single needles for this use, - that were not from owndoc?

thanks

Jackie xx

Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:32 pm

Hi there,
New to this site and thread and already picked up valuable tips . Will look at getting a 0.5 and 1.5 roller. Just wondered can anyone give me any info on Copper Peptides, can these be used in conjunction with rolling for the first time ( well same week I take it not straight after rolling) Also which is a good brand of CP to get from UK/Europe either for all over face usage or under eyes,
Thanks very much for your help...it's a wealth of information on here !!!

free skin care · Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:36 pm

Jackie284 wrote:

HI everyone,

has anyone in the UK managed to find single needles for this use, - that were not from owndoc?

thanks

Jackie xx

Unfortunately, I don't think anywhere else sell the 'single needles', well not that I am personally aware of anyway.

Quoted from the owndoc website:

Quote:

This needle has a diameter of 0.25 and a long taper and can’t be found anywhere online – it is made for us in a tatoo needle factory as a special order.

free skin care · Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:11 pm

Did anybody here succeed in reducing smoker´s lines? I have rolled mine 3 times and so far no visible improvement. I do not have any deep ones yet, I am in my 30s.
That area is so painful to roll ( at least for me) that it would encourage me to hear from someone who succeeded. Do you manage to roll that area without a numbing cream?

free skin care · Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:53 pm

ratchette13 wrote:

Hi there,
New to this site and thread and already picked up valuable tips . Will look at getting a 0.5 and 1.5 roller. Just wondered can anyone give me any info on Copper Peptides, can these be used in conjunction with rolling for the first time ( well same week I take it not straight after rolling) Also which is a good brand of CP to get from UK/Europe either for all over face usage or under eyes,
Thanks very much for your help...it's a wealth of information on here !!!

I got the PSF bio Copper serum which is apparently very mild (which is a good thing in terms of starting off). I haven't had anything negative - which often happens with CPs but then I can't say I had anything wow happen either (but I've been told I haven't used it long enough). If you really want to get started with rolling combined with CP's then just as it was recommended to me, I'd recommend PSF (bought from EDS).

free skin care · Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:55 pm

marta1 wrote:

Did anybody here succeed in reducing smoker´s lines? I have rolled mine 3 times and so far no visible improvement. I do not have any deep ones yet, I am in my 30s.
That area is so painful to roll ( at least for me) that it would encourage me to hear from someone who succeeded. Do you manage to roll that area without a numbing cream?

Sorry OT here but I believe the EDS veteran Kassy said she reduced her smoker lines with her vaculift. You may want to check that thread out.

free skin care · Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:09 pm

marta1 wrote:

Did anybody here succeed in reducing smoker´s lines? I have rolled mine 3 times and so far no visible improvement. I do not have any deep ones yet, I am in my 30s.
That area is so painful to roll ( at least for me) that it would encourage me to hear from someone who succeeded. Do you manage to roll that area without a numbing cream?

http://www.environ.co.za/contents/articles/skin_needling.htm

Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:02 pm

I've search all of the dermaroller threads and haven't seen anyone mention using Chloraseptic to numb your skin. Has anyone tried it? It seems almost too easy, so I'm thinking there has got to be a reason not to use it on your skin. (But it sure does work on your throat). I'd love to hear anybody's feedback.

free skin care · Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:18 pm

christie6104 wrote:

I've search all of the dermaroller threads and haven't seen anyone mention using Chloraseptic to numb your skin. Has anyone tried it? It seems almost too easy, so I'm thinking there has got to be a reason not to use it on your skin. (But it sure does work on your throat). I'd love to hear anybody's feedback.

I doubt it would work. Very few chemicals will penetrate the skin even if they penetrate the mucosa easier. For example, you can easily numb your lips with Oragel (benzocaine) but try using that on any part of your skin that is thicker and it does nothing. Or at least that was my experience.

free skin care · Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:01 pm

ratchette13 wrote:

Hi there,
New to this site and thread and already picked up valuable tips . Will look at getting a 0.5 and 1.5 roller. Just wondered can anyone give me any info on Copper Peptides, can these be used in conjunction with rolling for the first time ( well same week I take it not straight after rolling) Also which is a good brand of CP to get from UK/Europe either for all over face usage or under eyes,
Thanks very much for your help...it's a wealth of information on here !!!

I would recommend getting your CPs from the inventor of them to get the best concentration of copper peptides in them. Skin Biology is the maker and they sell them overseas. You can also purchase SB CPs from NCN Skincare, EDS, and Diana Yvonne. Other makers that have CPs in them can only offer GHK which lost its patent a few years ago. PSF is one and Neova and Osmotics are a couple of others. The stronger CPs are only made by Skin Biology and are called 2nd generation CPs. These were developed to not break down as easily as the GHK and to be resistent to acids so they can used with them for better results. (Using with rollers instead of acids is another alternative).

NCN and DY both offer a lot of information on CPs, so you can read up on them there. Skin Bio also offers a lot of info, but theirs is very technical. Skin Bio has the fullest line up of products offered.

I will apply CPs immediately after a roll after removing any weeping or blood spots. I roll, cleanse my face with gauze strips soaked in water, let my face air dry and apply CPs. I spot treat with the strongest CP - SC2X - and can really feel that one going in.

PSF's CPs have GHK in them, which is the original CP and is the gentlest one out there. GHK is in Skin Bio's Super GHK. GHK is a good one to start out with if you've never used CPs before. You can also dilute the CP Serum (with water) until your skin is used to it.

free skin care · Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:17 pm

marta1 wrote:

Did anybody here succeed in reducing smoker´s lines? I have rolled mine 3 times and so far no visible improvement. I do not have any deep ones yet, I am in my 30s.
That area is so painful to roll ( at least for me) that it would encourage me to hear from someone who succeeded. Do you manage to roll that area without a numbing cream?

Try a single needle. I had good results on one upper lip line I needled w/ a really thin sewing needle a couple of years ago. Sewing needles are too thick to use though. You want to use one that has a 25 guage thickness - the thinner the better, I believe.

And, I agree with you on the pain. That is my most sensitive spot - I hate rolling there. I find the single needle is less painful.

A numbing cream will really help. You can try ice instead. Not as good as the cream, tho.

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:57 am

foxe wrote:

marta1 wrote:

Did anybody here succeed in reducing smoker´s lines? I have rolled mine 3 times and so far no visible improvement. I do not have any deep ones yet, I am in my 30s.
That area is so painful to roll ( at least for me) that it would encourage me to hear from someone who succeeded. Do you manage to roll that area without a numbing cream?

Try a single needle. I had good results on one upper lip line I needled w/ a really thin sewing needle a couple of years ago. Sewing needles are too thick to use though. You want to use one that has a 25 guage thickness - the thinner the better, I believe.

Sorry to correct, the needle thickness should be .25mm, which as discussed earlier equates to a 32 gauge. Thinner is not necessarily better; if it's too thin it may not be an injury enough to activate inflammation. Sewing needles are too thick; they could cause scar tissue formation.
I think we should pressure Owndoc to sell their needles separately instead of as a package!

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:58 am

I emailed owndoc and they replied that they are going to sell the needles separately in 2-3 weeks.

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:19 am

This is Miranda wrote:

foxe wrote:

marta1 wrote:

Did anybody here succeed in reducing smoker´s lines? I have rolled mine 3 times and so far no visible improvement. I do not have any deep ones yet, I am in my 30s.
That area is so painful to roll ( at least for me) that it would encourage me to hear from someone who succeeded. Do you manage to roll that area without a numbing cream?

Try a single needle. I had good results on one upper lip line I needled w/ a really thin sewing needle a couple of years ago. Sewing needles are too thick to use though. You want to use one that has a 25 guage thickness - the thinner the better, I believe.

Sorry to correct, the needle thickness should be .25mm, which as discussed earlier equates to a 32 gauge. Thinner is not necessarily better; if it's too thin it may not be an injury enough to activate inflammation. Sewing needles are too thick; they could cause scar tissue formation.
I think we should pressure Owndoc to sell their needles separately instead of as a package!

Ack, I just bought 0.64 mm x 120 mm beading needles from ebay after reading foxe's comment last night. So these are too thin?

Lots of people on acne forums do needling for spot treatment of scars, with great success.

I only Dermarolled (through gritted teeth, first with Lidocaine, then EMLA, and it still hurt)! I bled, but nowhere near as much as Bethany. Zero results (and I'm pretty diligent with the C & Retin-A). This thread may just encourage me to crack open the wine and try it again!!

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:13 am

This is Miranda wrote:

foxe wrote:

marta1 wrote:

Did anybody here succeed in reducing smoker´s lines? I have rolled mine 3 times and so far no visible improvement. I do not have any deep ones yet, I am in my 30s.
That area is so painful to roll ( at least for me) that it would encourage me to hear from someone who succeeded. Do you manage to roll that area without a numbing cream?

Try a single needle. I had good results on one upper lip line I needled w/ a really thin sewing needle a couple of years ago. Sewing needles are too thick to use though. You want to use one that has a 25 guage thickness - the thinner the better, I believe.

Sorry to correct, the needle thickness should be .25mm, which as discussed earlier equates to a 32 gauge. Thinner is not necessarily better; if it's too thin it may not be an injury enough to activate inflammation. Sewing needles are too thick; they could cause scar tissue formation.
I think we should pressure Owndoc to sell their needles separately instead of as a package!

Glad you corrected - gotta keep these things straight. I just skipped adding the 'period' in the .25
I was referring to thinner compared to sewing needles being better. Need to give more info next time. Smile

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:32 am

Thank you for that wonderful information Foxe. I am trying to decide which CP to order. I want to use the 2nd generation and dilute until I'm used to it. Which do you think would be best for a first timer? Do you think I should try the Skinbiology CP serum or the Super CP serum? Thank you for the advice. Oh, and do you think I should let my skin get used to it full strength before trying it will rolling?

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:45 am

LKJ, actually, your needle is a little thicker than .25mm. But, let's be honest. Even the dermarollers that we buy from the manufacturers vary in gauge from one to the other. .25mm is the ideal, but that doesn't mean that a needle with a gauge that is close to that won't work. As foxe said, there are people who have gotten good results with a plain old sewing needle and even the thinnest sewing needle is thicker than a beading needle. I, personally, am going to use the beading needles until I need to place another order with owndoc. When I place my next order with owndoc, I'll get the single needle.

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:09 am

The higher the gauge, the thinner the needle.

It's on the owndoc website somewhere, they say not to use a tattoo needle as they are too thick at .35mm and can cause scar tissue...

So for example, a .25mm needle would be roughly a 30-31g and the .35mm would be roughly a 27g.

marta1 wrote:

I emailed owndoc and they replied that they are going to sell the needles separately in 2-3 weeks.

Oh that would be great! I was hoping that would do this so I can buy some more without paying the extra (for the roller that comes with them) Very Happy

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:12 am

Tonia

Start with the CP Serum as it's weaker than the Super CP Serum.

I would use it for a week or 2 before using with a roller to see how your skin reacts. CPs are pretty strong.

When I first started using them, I diluted with water 50/50 for a couple weeks and gradually added more CPs and less water each week. I had no uglies this way. (Uglies are usually loose skin or wrinkles showing up from the CPs bringing damage to the surface and changing things up too fast)

I did see some uglies when I changed up to stronger CPs, so it can happen, but they always went away. And I no longer have any problems - my skin is used to them now. I can use the strongest(SC2X) without any itching anymore and that's the one you want to use for scars - it really fills them in fast

After you see how your skin reacts, you might be able to use the roller on DILUTED CPs. But watch for reactions. If things are moving along fine, gradually increase the CPs.

Oh - and if you like creams better than serums (drier skin), you can try the P & R lotion to start (about the same strength as CP Serum) or later, the TriReduction Lotion(cousin to the Super CP Serum). Just preferences, is all. I like serums better for my oily skin and I can control the strength w/ diluting with water better than the creams.

Its a good idea to get an oil like Emu to apply after the serums since they have no oils or moisturizers in them. The emu oil helps to push the CPs in too. Plus, rolling can be drying, and the oil is a good one to add after a roll. I tend to add mine after the holes have closed up.

Edited to add:

I forgot to mention that SB has a new CP called Skin Signals that is getting great reviews. They include collagen and elastin in it for firming skin. You could start with this one (diluting it) instead. Its a serum

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:59 am

Tonia wrote:

LKJ, actually, your needle is a little thicker than .25mm. But, let's be honest. Even the dermarollers that we buy from the manufacturers vary in gauge from one to the other. .25mm is the ideal, but that doesn't mean that a needle with a gauge that is close to that won't work. As foxe said, there are people who have gotten good results with a plain old sewing needle and even the thinnest sewing needle is thicker than a beading needle. I, personally, am going to use the beading needles until I need to place another order with owndoc. When I place my next order with owndoc, I'll get the single needle.

Thanks Tonia, I wouldn't imagine they're that much thicker. Got 20 for £1.29 delivered! I'll give it a go anyway. On the acne forums some are using MUCH thicker needles than .25mm ones and reporting success. Some even visit a tattooist and get needled with a tattoo gun (though they don't tend to mention which gauge).

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:23 pm

There's not much I can find but on one thread, they're saying 31 gauge or upwards is best to avoid scar widening. One person had a doctor use a 7 gauge needle for injecting a cyst and now has scars.

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:34 pm

marta1 wrote:

I emailed owndoc and they replied that they are going to sell the needles separately in 2-3 weeks.

Well, crap. I wish she would have told me that when I emailed her about is a week ago. I bought a "kit" just to get my hands on the needles!

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:51 pm

LKJ, I just looked it up on the converter chart and .64mm is a 22 gauge.

Foxe, thank you so much for the information. I have been kind of lost trying to sort through all of the options. Is there a good thread on CP's? I haven't been able to find one. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:50 pm

Anyone tried acupuncture needles? I'm thinking of getting them after I use up my owndoc ones.

I found this site http://www.lhasaoms.com/tai_chi_needles-90-page.html
The second kind on the page is the one I'm thinking of. They're sterile & individually blister packaged, and they come in various gauges including 32. Since one box contains 100 needles for only $3.50, I could just use a new one each time instead of worrying about disinfecting them.

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