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Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:00 am  |
I know Vit. C and Retinol can build collagen, but I'm wondering if we can list "actives" in this thread that have been proven to build collagen, and tell how effective they are or could be or have been.
I'm wondering about AHAs/Glycolics - do they really build collagen, what studies have shown this, have you personally used them for many years and think they have done this for you, and what have you used?
Which beand and exact product with AHAs/glycolics are most effective for building collagen? I've heard MD Formulations creams for example are good for this. I've heard some products with Glycolics/AHAs are lots better than others for collagen-building, but I don't know which ones specifically.
I thought I had been reading over the years that AHAs could "thin" skin, is this true or not?
Also, could we list all the actives that you can think of that build collagen:
Does CoQ10?
Matrixyl?
Kinerase?
AHA?
Copper Peptides?
Which other ones?
please list all the ones that you know of that build collagen because I am going to do some research.
Also, could you please list specific products you've used that you know have helped with collagen and true wrinkle-reduction or wrinkle-fading. Thanks. |
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Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:28 am |
| Proof may be hard to define for this issue. I currently use copper peptides from Skin Biology and they claim to increase collagen production. If you haven't visited their website, it does contain a lot of the inventor's views on copper peptides and their effect on skin aging. As with all "scientific studies", you'll have to decide if you believe it! From my personal experience, copper peptides are definitely not an overnight fix. |
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Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:18 am |
| I'm not sure if BHA's build collagen in the skin, but I have read that AHA's do promote collagen in the skin. |
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Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:05 pm |
You could also check out the forums on skinactives website. I copied this yesterday:
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My understanding is that you basically need 3 things for your skin to re-build itself and become thicker:
First: You need to signal your skin to start the process and increase turnover (EGF and KGF are signals; Alpha Beta and/or Pumpkin Peel for exfoliation).
Second: You need to provide the energy and the building blocks for collagen production (peptides such as Dermagen, PP3, NAP; CoQ10 for mitochondrial energy, etc.).
Third: You need to give your skin the nutrition and lipids it needs to be healthy (ELS, MNS, Sea Kelp, Rosehip Oil, Anti-Ox Booster, etc.).
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mid 40's, Hawaiian/Japanese, combo skin, med/dark complexion. "If life hands you lemons, throw them at your enemies" |
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Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:47 pm |
Thank you everyone for helpful information.
Now I'm wondering if I only imagined that I had read that long-term use of AHAs or glycolics could cause the skin to become thinner   Has anyone else read that?
To Rjez, that was a good quote. What I'm wondering now is, can all those ingredients that were mentioned in that quote, except maybe for the EGF and pumpkin enzyme, all be in one serum, and will it be as effective as using 2 or more serums? I wonder if it matters, and I wonder if all those ingredients can safely be put into one serum, or if any one ingredient would cancel out the effectiveness of the other (the only ones I know that aren't supposed to be used together for sure are Vit. C and copper, but I know some ingredients aren't supposed to be put into an acidic base but I can't remember which ones).
There's so much to learn and ask.
I know there's a member on SkinActives, he knows a lot about thickening of the skin, and said even his dermatologist could definitely tell the difference in his skin, that it had for sure thickened, from using different concoctions this SkinActives member made himself. So I'm going to review all his posts.
The only thing I'm scared of using, other than ingredients affecting my asthma, is EGF, I heard if a person had unhealthy skin cells, then maybe this EGF stuff could do harm?? but I don't know where I read it or if it's true, and I used to be a sun worshiper so I'm a little concerned about using it. |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:14 am |
i hear about that peptide-3 could do this.
i can't remember its exract name,but it must be begun with a letter m
hope it helps |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:15 am |
i hear about that peptide-3 could do this.
i can't remember its exract name,but it must be begun with a letter m
hope it helps |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:14 am |
| I've also heard/read somewhere that vitamin C can help, but I also think products that have "amino acids" listed in the ingredients increase collagen production too. |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:10 pm |
| luvsgracy wrote: |
To Rjez, that was a good quote. What I'm wondering now is, can all those ingredients that were mentioned in that quote, except maybe for the EGF and pumpkin enzyme, all be in one serum, and will it be as effective as using 2 or more serums? |
Those are the questions I'm trying to learn as well. |
_________________
mid 40's, Hawaiian/Japanese, combo skin, med/dark complexion. "If life hands you lemons, throw them at your enemies" |
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Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:18 pm |
| luvsgracy wrote: |
Thank you everyone for helpful information.
There's so much to learn and ask.
I know there's a member on SkinActives, he knows a lot about thickening of the skin, and said even his dermatologist could definitely tell the difference in his skin, that it had for sure thickened, from using different concoctions this SkinActives member made himself. So I'm going to review all his posts.
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Do you have this persons user name, as I would be interested in looking uphis posts too. TIA
Ricky |
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Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:02 pm |
[quote="luvsgracy"]
I know there's a member on SkinActives, he knows a lot about thickening of the skin, and said even his dermatologist could definitely tell the difference in his skin, that it had for sure thickened, from using different concoctions this SkinActives member made himself. So I'm going to review all his posts.
quote]
Hi luvsgracy...any luck with these posts?? I'm very interested. |
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Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:40 pm |
| About 2 years ago there were two articles that received news attention stating that AHAs thinned skin. These have since been show to be true only in very limited circumstances. AHAs thicken skin unless they are used at very high strength continuously without letting skin heal in between (thus "strong" (ie. high %, low pH) peels should be done only after the skin is in good shape after a previous peel or basically every other week). I also recently read that continuous use of "moderate strength AHAs (they stated 15% AT pH of 3.5) products also leads to skin thickening. |
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Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:41 pm |
Is DianaYvonne's web site related to Skinbio.com web site? They sell the same things.
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Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:16 pm |
| I dont think so - not sure though. I think DY is just a reseller amongst others. She sells plenty products neneath SB. |
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Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:48 pm |
Thanks Rjez,
That narrows it down.I have heard so much about the Pumpkin Peel,so now it is next on my list.It looks like SAS and GOW have most of the items you mentioned.Have you found any information about dark circles? I have been using SCPs on my face,but on and off. I am wanting to get rid of old acne scars.
Linda |
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Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:41 pm |
| skin care addict wrote: |
Thanks Rjez,
That narrows it down.I have heard so much about the Pumpkin Peel,so now it is next on my list.It looks like SAS and GOW have most of the items you mentioned.Have you found any information about dark circles? I have been using SCPs on my face,but on and off. I am wanting to get rid of old acne scars.
Linda |
uh, I just copied the quote from the website. I have used the pumpkin peel from Mychelle and liked it but overall don't use peels. Just too lazy I guess.
For dark circles the thing that really helped me was retinaldehydes. I think Chrysin (from SkinActives) also helps but unsure. You could also check out Candessence's products. She knows a ton and you could ask her to formulate something.
If you want a basic eye moisturizer, CoQ10, borage oil, vitamins - I recommend Dream Products.
Old acne scars - yup, cps are probably your best bet.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help. |
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mid 40's, Hawaiian/Japanese, combo skin, med/dark complexion. "If life hands you lemons, throw them at your enemies" |
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Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:31 am |
I also want to know the experiense  Thank u all:)I think VC serum should be useful? |
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shen bei |
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Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:22 am |
| luvsgracy wrote: |
| The only thing I'm scared of using, other than ingredients affecting my asthma, is EGF, I heard if a person had unhealthy skin cells, then maybe this EGF stuff could do harm?? but I don't know where I read it or if it's true, and I used to be a sun worshiper so I'm a little concerned about using it. |
I'm now taking those warnings seriously. I've seen these doubts expressed on all the skincare sites/forums.
I was using PSF's Stimucoll and was thrilled with the fresh, dewy skin it gives you. However, after a few weeks I began to see a little mole growing on my eyelid which had never been in evidence before. Now I've stopped using it it's shrunk down to a pin prick. |
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Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:54 am |
Dr Hannah Sivak of Skin Actives has just posted a list of actives that can help with collagen. I thought it would be directly relevant for this thread"
"Actives that can help with collagen:
Ascorbic acid is necessary to synthesize collagen, because it is required to hydroxylate the amino acid proline after synthesis of the protein. Scurvy is a syndrome of vitamin C deficiency and is related to defective collagen synthesis.
Betulinic acid stimulates collagen synthesis and actively inhibits the enzyme elastase to prevent/correct the loss of elastic fibers responsible for skin suppleness.
Boswellia serrata promotes collagen synthesis and is also an elastase (protease) and hyaluronidase inhibitor, a life preserver for the dermal matrix.
L-carnosine: prevents cross-linking of collagen, one of the causes of wrinkles and loss of elasticity brought about by aging and exposure to UV (sunlight).
Centella asiatica stimulates scar maturation by increasing synthesis of type I collagen.
Copper peptide complex induced stimulation of collagen synthesis when added to a culture of human fibroblasts. Be careful with copper peptide: too much will decrease collagen!
Epidermal growth factor (EGF) increases protein synthesis (plus lots more!)
Green tea: shown to prevent collagen glycation in the vascular system, not in skin, but you never know....
N-acetyl glucosamine increases collagen synthesis
Horse chestnut's escin inhibits protease activity, including elastase.
Hyaluronic acid: make your skin collagen happy and provide a nice matrix for it.
Natural active peptides will supply your skin with amino acids that will be used in collagen synthesis.
Retinyl acetate and other retinoids increase synthesis of collagen
Sea kelp bioferment contains fucoidans, polysaccharides that have been shown to increase collagen synthesis.
Soy isoflavones: use to correct, even if only in part, the decrease in estrogens that leads to skin aging and decreased collagen synthesis.
Wild yam disogenins: use to correct, even if only in part, the decrease in estrogens that leads to skin aging and decreased collagen synthesis.
DO NOT use: quercetin, which inhibits fibroblast proliferation, collagen production, thus preventing scar formation." |
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Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:08 pm |
| If you are post menopausal then try estrogen and progesterone creams, as these used in combination with Retin-a and L-ascorbic acid have been clinically shown to thicken collagen. The is even newer research which is indicating that DHEA used topically can additionally promote growth of collagen type 111. |
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Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:51 pm |
nyonyakay's post of Hannah's list is great. Thank you, nyonyakay. I'm glad that Hannah got around to producing the list.
That's quite an arsenal and, as we all know, some things work better for some than others.
We all know the L-Ascorbic Acid is necessary. So that's a given as is the SKB.
Hyaluronic Acid plus Natural Active Peptides equals matrixyl. So, if you're already using Candy's Matrixyl 3000, you've got that covered. If you're not using it, you should be. (I should check to see if there's a review already and, if not, write one.) Does that sound like I love, love, love it?
L-Carnosine has provided me with faster results than Centella Asiatica. But, that might not be true for someone else. I also take L-Carnosine capsules daily in addition to a complete Mega Amino Acid complex. (Again, you have to find what works best for you.)
Retinoids are necessary as part of a "weed 'n' feed" program. I adore PSF Retinol Nite Repair.
Soy Isoflavones and Wild Yam are best for those who are peri-menopausal, menopausal, or post. I use the soy iso. but I also use Progesterone twice a day. So, in any case, I have that covered.
Copper has it's place and I use super cop as you all know (if you've seen the weed 'n' feed post). You just need to be careful.
I tried the EFG but got off it, as well. I'm working on my skin but I do NOT want to have to wonder or worry about anything I'm using.
What was the point of all this? Oh, yeah, you don't need to grab the whole arsenal. Just figure out what works well together or what will "multi-task" and pare it down to what you, personally, actually need.
Ari |
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Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the devil says, "Oh Crap, She's up!" Unknown |
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:14 am |
I use Tazorac for adult acne it have improved skin thickness (in combo with vit C and glycolic peels).
I also use Esnatri cream because I have also read peer reviewed articles on estrogen and wrinkle depth/collagen.
I use so many things off and on it is difficult to know what does what but at my age (51) when lines disappear instead of appear you keep on doing what you are doing. |
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Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:37 pm |
I bought Dermagen from SAS b/c the web site says it will help to thicken the skin.
Dr. Hannah told me she's not a big fan of copper peptides. I don't know yet if it works or not. I've been using it for just a month or so. |
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:59 am |
I just want to thank everyone for wonderful information and help.
I'm placing an order next month for some "actives" and after I use them for awhile I'll let everyone know how it goes. |
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