England finally has a smoking ban from today..
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free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:35 am

Finally the smoking ban has started in England today. Initially I can see it causing some problems, but it will be lovely to be able to go in any pub or restaurant/cafe and not worry about people smoking right next to you. Bliss.

What's everyone elses view on the ban.

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:49 am

I do feel somewhat sorry for the smokers, but I have asthma and find smokey pubs very difficult. I always end up coughing, wheezing and with a sore chest.

To be honest, it's a huge relief to me as there are some pubs/restaurants and other places that I dared not enter because of cigarette smoke. Now I can go there without fear of having an asthma attack. (Football matches used to be particularly bad. Even though they're held outdoors, there was so very much smoke that it was agony to attend.)

Also, my mum (a longterm chain smoker) has recently recovered from lung cancer, and my grandma died from a smoking-related heart attack. I live in hope that the ban may encourage more people to give up for the sake of their own health and for the relief of those who care about them.

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:55 am

I've been allergic to smoke all my life and just absolutely detest everything about smoking, so I think it's WONDERFUL! Chicago (where I live) is contemplating following in NYC's footpath of banning smoking too. I say it's LOOOOOOONG overdue. JMHO.

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:23 am

I think the smoking ban is fantastic - and long overdue. There are some lovely quaint little country pubs around the area we live in, and now I might actually visit some of them!

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:57 am

What wonderful news for the EDS ladies in England!!!

Before the smoking ban was introduced here in Ohio, DH and I often had to walk out of restaurants because even in the non-smoking section, the second-hand smoke was too over-powering for us to enjoy our meal. Ever since the smoking ban was enacted though, we can eat anywhere we want and enjoy such leisurely, relaxing meals. It feels like such a luxury!! Recently I took a trip to Texas and got SUCH a rude shock when I walked into a restaurant and smelled smoke--- living in Ohio has really spoiled me. I'm thrilled to hear about the smoking ban in England though, and I'll tell you ladies what: I fully believe that within our lifetime we will see the day where public smoking is banned altogether. For the sake our of children, and our children's children, I'm really looking forward to that day.

Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:17 am

As a smoker, I can tell you that the bans alone won't convince one smoker to quit! Confused

If only quitting was that easy. Confused

I have often wished one could go somewhere and be put into an induced coma for a couple of weeks to rid the system of nicotine ... and perhaps that might make the actual quitting easier. Sad

So far ... none of the other tactics have worked for me. Crying or Very sad

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:39 pm

betrayed wrote:

As a smoker, I can tell you that the bans alone won't convince one smoker to quit! Confused

If only quitting was that easy. Confused

I have often wished one could go somewhere and be put into an induced coma for a couple of weeks to rid the system of nicotine ... and perhaps that might make the actual quitting easier. Sad

So far ... none of the other tactics have worked for me. Crying or Very sad

Have you read Alan Carrs books? Worked for millions of people, me being one of them.

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:34 pm

I think it's great! No more sitting in restaurants thinking who the hell is smoking and scanning all over the place looking for the smoker!

I do think that England is a bit slow in enforcing the smoking ban though, seems like they talked about it for ages then nothing then they set the date for July 1st.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:48 am

It's sad to see that California's penchant for over-regulation is starting to infect the rest of the world.... While I can understand the desire to create a smoke free environment in bars and restaurants, it should have been left up to individual bar and restaurant owners to designate whether their businesses will be smoke-free or not.

It's gotten to the point that California is beginning to ban smoking outdoors and even some of the beaches are completely smoke-free. While I can MAYBE buy that second hand smoke can be problematic indoors, I DON'T buy that one whiff of cigarette smoke outdoors is going to cause any harm.

Be careful heading down this path; What's next, perfumes and colognes? Let's see, someone will file a lawsuit for pain and suffering against a woman who wears too much perfume in an elevator; claiming emotional and physical damages from being forced to inhale an offensive cologne... then we'll all be forced to wear non-allergenic perfumes or go without altogether! Very Happy

OK, end of rant Wink

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:15 am

Purfume doesn't kill; my dd lost her grandpa to lung cancer and her grandma to emphasema. We run a small business and our office manager and our chief technical officer both died of lung cancer. It freaks my dd to go into a restaurant and see someone smoking. She knows it is associated with death.

While I agree with you that outside shouldn't matter a closed environment is dangerous. I think people who smoke should have to pay the extra insurance costs that we are all shouldering that would provide more incentive to stop.

P.S. Do you know how many hundred dollars that each of us paying every year because others smoke? Most smokers talk of individual rights but what about individual responsibility?

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:26 am

[quote="athena123"]It's gotten to the point that California is beginning to ban smoking outdoors and even some of the beaches are completely smoke-free. While I can MAYBE buy that second hand smoke can be problematic indoors, I DON'T buy that one whiff of cigarette smoke outdoors is going to cause any harm.

Be careful heading down this path; What's next, perfumes and colognes? Let's see, someone will file a lawsuit for pain and suffering against a woman who wears too much perfume in an elevator; claiming emotional and physical damages from being forced to inhale an offensive cologne... then we'll all be forced to wear non-allergenic perfumes or go without altogether! Very Happy

You MAYBE buy that secondhand smoke causes problems? Maybe? It's been scientifically proven that people are dying from passive smoking. Why should people who chose not to smoke have their health affected by people who chose to smoke?

The amount of times I have been walking behind someone in the street as they light up a cigarette and a great big puff of disgusting toxic smoke hits me in the face is part of the reason I also think that smoking should be banned outside. I have also found smokers to be very inconsiderate when walking along with a cigarette in their hand, I have had coats burnt that way and have even had my hand burnt, so yes smoking outside is also harmful to others.

And what about the stench of it? Why should non smokers have to smell like ashtrays? I have on more than one occasion had to get a coat cleaned after going into a smokey atmosphere, that has caused me unnecessary expense, not to mention what it's doing to my health.

Comparing cigarettes to perfume is just ridiculous, perfume does not give you lung cancer!

Maybe you should read this article about the toxins in cigarettes http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=4&db=12&C0=1

If you chose to shorten your life by smoking, do it in the privacy of your own home and don't affect others health in the process. Just my opinion.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:33 am

I am a smoker (pack-and-a-half-a-day) and I support non-smoking eating environments....in fact, in all enclosed spaces. I do NOT support regulations stating that I cannot smoke outdoors or in my car in a parking lot.

Heavy fragrances are much more likely to "do me in" as I have a very low tolerance for them..catch a whiff and inevitably end up with a sick headache, the taste of the fragrance in my mouth and my skin begins to smell like I'm wearing it myself--it just ooozes from my pores. Very sad 'cause I used to love several fragrances that I can no longer wear.

When it comes to smoking, not all of the purported health hazards are inevitable. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have been to the doctor in the last 30 years...and none of those incidents were smoking-related. Come to think of it, I'm much more likely to fall and kill myself since I'm such a klutz.

A

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:37 am

Going back to beaches, they should absolutely be smoke free. What happens with the cigarette butt when you've finished with it? Most get ditched into the sand which is disgusting, kids find cigarette ends on beaches.

Who wants to sit on a beach with a picnic with someones cigarette smoke and ash blowing over your food.

With 4000 chemicals in cigarettes, most of which are carcinogenic, why should smokers have any rights to smoke anywhere?!

Just my opinion.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:40 am

Arielle wrote:

I am a smoker (pack-and-a-half-a-day) and I support non-smoking eating environments....in fact, in all enclosed spaces. I do NOT support regulations stating that I cannot smoke outdoors or in my car in a parking lot.

Heavy fragrances are much more likely to "do me in" as I have a very low tolerance for them..catch a whiff and inevitably end up with a sick headache, the taste of the fragrance in my mouth and my skin begins to smell like I'm wearing it myself--it just ooozes from my pores. Very sad 'cause I used to love several fragrances that I can no longer wear.

When it comes to smoking, not all of the purported health hazards are inevitable. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have been to the doctor in the last 30 years...and none of those incidents were smoking-related. Come to think of it, I'm much more likely to fall and kill myself since I'm such a klutz.

A

That's great Arielle that you've very seldom been ill over the last 30 years but what you don't know is how much your smoking has affected others around you in that time.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:40 am

Respectfully sarahb, you asked to hear about people's views; did you not want to hear any opposing veiwpoints?

I too find many smokers who blow smoke in my face and drop their butts on the ground to be very annoying, but you're placing everyone who smokes into the same lump. I don't litter my cigs on the ground, nor do I blow it in people's faces and I actually prefer to be in a smoke-free environment indoors. My point is that these decisions should be left up to the individual owner of the bar, restaurant or whatever to make this decision rather than the government.

If you really think about it, who has done more for the environment - consumers who have demanded greener products, or government regulations? The consumer demand will do MORE to help the environment in the long run, now that big business has gotten the message that being green is actually BETTER for the bottom line!

sharky, do you know how much more $$ each of us pays for health insurance because of obesity, drunk driving, or subsidizing the uninsured? And in case you misunderstood, I used the perfume as a ridiculous analogy of how far things can go in the WRONG direction when governmental intervention goes too far. Do you think this is totally impossible after hearing about how the city of New York has banned all transfats from all restaurants?

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:49 am

athena123 wrote:

Respectfully sarahb, you asked to hear about people's views; did you not want to hear any opposing veiwpoints?

I too find many smokers who blow smoke in my face and drop their butts on the ground to be very annoying, but you're placing everyone who smokes into the same lump. I don't litter my cigs on the ground, nor do I blow it in people's faces and I actually prefer to be in a smoke-free environment indoors.

Absolutely you're entitled to your opinion, just like I am. Not everyone can all have the same opinion, thank God, otherwise the world would be a very boring place. Smile

But we're having a discussion here so I'm joining in. Smile

Also with respect, I'm sure you wouldn't do it on purpose but when someone lights a cigarette and they're walking along anyone behind does get a face full of smoke, you might not realise as it's happening behind you. Smile

Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:13 am

While I would love to quit smoking, I haven't had any success in that.

And, I really do prefer going to restaurants in a smoke-free atmosphere.

Despite my wanting to quit smoking, I am also aware that not all lung cancer is caused by smoking ... poor Dana Reeves is a case in point.

However, the whole governmental banning thing reminds me of a little historical period called Prohibition. You couldn't legally purchase alcohol anywhere [except New Orleans] in the U.S. ... for about 10 years.

Prohibition didn't stop drinking ... but did foster a rather lucrative bootleg market.

I'm not sure government intervention is the answer.

In most countries tobacco is a legal product, often taxed heavily by the government.

As for beaches ... I can't imagine actually going to a public beach ... let alone having a picnic on one. Shock

All those people? *shudder*

I think that most smokers try to be considerate of non-smokers. I can't always say the same for non-smokers. I have encountered some fairly rude ones myself. I have also encountered some rude smokers ... but by and large, the smokers I know [myself included] do try to be aware of and respect the proximity of other people when I smoke.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:17 am

Arielle, it's very distressing to me that you do not support regulations stating that one cannot smoke outdoors. Just because you smoke outdoors, that does not mean that you aren't still infringing on a non-smoker's choice to keep that poison out of their bodies. One time I was walking outside on a windy day behind a guy who was smoking, and some of his ash blew into my eye, and the puff of smoke that accompanied the ash only made it worse. I was furious and I let the guy know it, saying "Hey!! Ash from your cigarette blew right into my eye!!!" The man was genuinely sorry, and it seemed like it hadn't occured to him that even by smoking outside he was still causing others physical distress, but that's the crux of the matter here---- even if one smokes outside, you are still exposing innocent people to toxins that they wish to avoid, and that's not very polite, IMO. Another thing that really upsets me is when I see a bunch of people smoking outside of the grocery store, and other people have no choice but to barrel on through the cloud of smoke, getting a lungful of it. The worst is when people are carrying newborn babies with them too!!! Secondhand smoke is poisonous, people. I just read an article that said that when people's blood was tested after spending just one night in a smoky bar or restaurant, the level of toxins in their system had jumped alarmingly. Smokers have the right to decide for themselves whether to take this risk or not, and I will defend their right fiercely, however, by the same token, I wish smokers would acknowledge other people's right to abstain from this poison, and not foist their choice on innocent bystanders by smoking out in public.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:31 am

There are scent-free places here in Nova Scotia; it's a very serious issue when you walk into say, a public school or office wearing perfume because so many people have low tolerances to shampoos, deoderants, perfume/cologne. So banning perfume is not much of a stretch, considering there have been cases where people have been hospitalized and at the very least, have suffered with headaches and allergies because of body products.

I don't see what is so bad about perfume, transfats or smoking being banned from ANY place. As a couple people have mentioned, uh, do you think that cigarette smoke simply doesn't linger around people when they're outside? Or that their emissions do not affect the environment?

What's so "wrong" about putting restrictions on things that pollute our bodies? It's comical that society is so tolerant of poisoning and killing ourselves with processed food and cigarettes, yet things like physician-assisted suicide are so controversial. (mini-rant done Wink

)

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:19 am

betrayed wrote:

While I would love to quit smoking, I haven't had any success in that.

And, I really do prefer going to restaurants in a smoke-free atmosphere.

Despite my wanting to quit smoking, I am also aware that not all lung cancer is caused by smoking ... poor Dana Reeves is a case in point.

However, the whole governmental banning thing reminds me of a little historical period called Prohibition. You couldn't legally purchase alcohol anywhere [except New Orleans] in the U.S. ... for about 10 years.

Prohibition didn't stop drinking ... but did foster a rather lucrative bootleg market.

I'm not sure government intervention is the answer.

In most countries tobacco is a legal product, often taxed heavily by the government.

As for beaches ... I can't imagine actually going to a public beach ... let alone having a picnic on one. Shock

All those people? *shudder*

I think that most smokers try to be considerate of non-smokers. I can't always say the same for non-smokers. I have encountered some fairly rude ones myself. I have also encountered some rude smokers ... but by and large, the smokers I know [myself included] do try to be aware of and respect the proximity of other people when I smoke.

i have to agree with betrayed and athena123 too, i am a smoker, would love to quit, have tried , will quit soon,hopefully, i have cut back tons, but i know bar owners who are losing money beacause of this, and i dont think the gov. should have say in this, the bar owners pay there taxes and how is it right for the gov. to step in and tell them how to run there bar. in ohio, we had 2 non smoking bars and guess what they closed down. i would rather smell like smoke after a night out then to get killed by a drunk driver. when i smoke i am never rude about it, most smokers arent. i had this debate with my mil, we both do hair, and she loves the smoking ban, i asked her what if perms proved to maybe cause cancer and the gov bans them, and you cant do perms anymore, you would lose alot of money, she really couldnt anwserme back. i know our stadium was built by my smoking tax dollars, no one complained then that people smoke, no one ever gets in fights at games because of smoking it is caused by drinking,i know there is a on going battle in ohio and bar owners are fighting back against this.the one bar i go to now when i do go out, has smoking after 10:00. the bars owners i have talked too, said they would rather get fined than have a empty bar. and a cop i talked to said they wont fine anyone, that the person who wants to complain has to call that number and then the columbus sheriff office has to come out and fine them. i have alot of police friends and when i went to their xmas party at a local bar someone ssid they were going to call, but then who would fine 50 or so police officers. i never smoke in resturants, but i feel bad for the smaller bar, that are losing money and might have to close

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:10 am

Quote:

i have to agree with betrayed and athena123 too, i am a smoker, would love to quit, have tried , will quit soon,hopefully, i have cut back tons, but i know bar owners who are losing money beacause of this, and i dont think the gov. should have say in this, the bar owners pay there taxes and how is it right for the gov. to step in and tell them how to run there bar. in ohio, we had 2 non smoking bars and guess what they closed down. i would rather smell like smoke after a night out then to get killed by a drunk driver. when i smoke i am never rude about it, most smokers arent. i had this debate with my mil, we both do hair, and she loves the smoking ban, i asked her what if perms proved to maybe cause cancer and the gov bans them, and you cant do perms anymore, you would lose alot of money, she really couldnt anwserme back.

Perms don't contribute to one of the leading causes of death in North America anyway, so it's a silly comparison, but I see your point. Shouldn't it ring an alarm to people that it's just not good for you, and that companies and bars are making money off your bad health?

Nor do you walk out of a smoke-filled bar just smelling stinky. Like I said, people seem oblivious to the fact that they're killing themselves slowly.

Quote:

o one complained then that people smoke, no one ever gets in fights at games because of smoking it is caused by drinking

Drinking AND smoking kill people. It's not the lesser of two evils here.

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:19 am

FrevaKZ wrote:

Nor do you walk out of a smoke-filled bar just smelling stinky. Like I said, people seem oblivious to the fact that they're killing themselves slowly.

From the moment we are born we are dying. It's the inevitable conclusion to life after all.

I'm not minimizing the health risks, but today, if you life in a large urban centre, you are probably more likely to have respiratory problems because of the air quality that has nothing whatever to do with smoking. There are some pretty dangerous chemicals in the air you breathe every day, depending upon where you live.

There are all kinds of health risks in today's world, but there have always been health risks. When the Baby Boomers were being born, pregnant women drank and smoked during pregnancy, and most of us managed to grow up without visible problems as a result of it. Indeed based upon today's yardstick, it's a wonder that the Baby Boomers are so plentiful at this point in time. Confused

Quote:

Drinking AND smoking kill people. It's not the lesser of two evils here.

And yet you don't see them banning drinking alcohol in restaurants and bars? They tried that once, and it didn't stick. If history repeats itself, there will be smoking allowed back in bars and restaurants in about 10 years.

I'm not questioning one's right to choose whether or not one wants to smoke, or be in the presense of one who is smoking. That's a given. I just wish that the vast majority of non-smokers were as understanding of me as they expect me to be of them. That's all.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:55 pm

[quote="betrayed"]

FrevaKZ wrote:

I'm not questioning one's right to choose whether or not one wants to smoke, or be in the presense of one who is smoking. That's a given. I just wish that the vast majority of non-smokers were as understanding of me as they expect me to be of them. That's all.

Sorry, but how can you expect non smokers to be understanding of smokers when firstly if we go into a smoky place we come out absolutely reaking of cigarettes which when you've taken the time to shampoo and condition your hair and it smells great, to then have it stinking of stale ashtrays a short while later through no fault of your own, is just disgusting and secondly you are physically harming other people with your habit, how can you expect understanding?

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:57 pm

Quote:

From the moment we are born we are dying. It's the inevitable conclusion to life after all.

So, we just accept that and start smoking?

Quote:

I'm not minimizing the health risks, but today, if you life in a large urban centre, you are probably more likely to have respiratory problems because of the air quality that has nothing whatever to do with smoking. There are some pretty dangerous chemicals in the air you breathe every day, depending upon where you live

I'm glad you pointed that out, because it is very true, and one of the reasons I can't wait to move to the country Very Happy

Although yes, there are numerous other factors out there, smoking contributes to it, and it's funny that this sort of thing always gets brought up in a smoking discussion.

Quote:

There are all kinds of health risks in today's world, but there have always been health risks. When the Baby Boomers were being born, pregnant women drank and smoked during pregnancy, and most of us managed to grow up without visible problems as a result of it. Indeed based upon today's yardstick, it's a wonder that the Baby Boomers are so plentiful at this point in time.

But how many of them are healthy?

Quote:

And yet you don't see them banning drinking alcohol in restaurants and bars? They tried that once, and it didn't stick. If history repeats itself, there will be smoking allowed back in bars and restaurants in about 10 years.

Alcohol presents no threat to someone in a bar or outside of a bar in the same sense that smoking does. Alcohol doesn't blow into my eye or permeate my hair or poison my lungs when I stand beside someone who is drinking.

Quote:

I just wish that the vast majority of non-smokers were as understanding of me as they expect me to be of them. That's all.

I tried to be that way with my mom, til I couldn't tolerate the stench and coughing anymore, and my bedroom is on the other side of the house. I guess I can't accept being "understanding" of that and the fact that she's killing herself. That's why non-smokers get so riled up.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:43 pm

I have no argument with providing places (especially eating establishments) that do not allow smoking. However, selling/buying cigarettes is still legal. So, smokers have the right to smoke them, yet should be mindful of how their smoking may affect others and properly dispose of butts (would be much easier if trash bins were readily available...also help control litter).

I wonder if the government(s) have studied how much they are going to lose in tax revenue??? Since cigarettes are one of the most highly taxed items. So, when other taxes are raised to offset the loss, we shouldn't be too surprised.

I personally wish there would be "children free" zones. Please don't attack me for this opinion...but I don't enjoy attending movies intended for mature audiences where kids are taken by their parents and run around making noise or trying to relax and enjoy a meal while there are screaming kids throwing food at the next table, or riding on an airplane where the child behind me constantly kicks my seat (and the parent totally ignores it).

I guess my point is that there are a lot of us living in this world who share different habits, lifestyles and preferences. Everyone should be allowed to live their life (legally), and try to minimize their impact on others. Tolerance...not condemnation makes the world a much happier place.

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