retin a dryness...
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free skin care · Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:34 pm

Ok, so i recently started re using retin-a because lets face it: its a miracle.

**i am using it for acne purposes, not necessarily for anti aging purposes, but hey..why not start early, right??

so anyway, im using retin a .05 every other night. its the only active i am using.

my skin is becoming a little dry and flaky, and doesnt seem to be getting any smoother as retin a should be doing.

so my question is, what should i use in terms of moisturizers??

i have emu oil, and i use it, but i don't think its everything its cracked up to be.

as for the flakies, i wash them off every morning in the shower w/ a wash cloth.

another question: should i just keep continuing to use retin a? or should i use it less. will the dryness and flakiness just go away eventually with persistance? when is my skin going to be smooth like a babies butt? lol

thanks ladies (and the few gentlement here...)

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:36 am

Hi Nate, As time progresses, so the flaking decreases. I used to use Retin-A every day, twice a day, during my 30s. I stopped for about 15 years and started again recently. The flaking and cracking was really bad. Emu oil didn't work too well as I think it was carrying the Retin-A deeper into my skin. However, when I started using Sea Buckthorn Oil over the Retin-A, the flaking stopped within two days. You can get this oil from the health food store. It's a very rich source of Omega-7 fatty acids. I hope that's helpful Smile

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:37 am

Darn! I posted this twice Sad

So, let me think of some other highly intelligent suggestion Embarassed

If you use it twice a day, you may want to cut it back to once, until the flaking stops. It takes a while to get to the baby's bottom stage so patience is key. My dermatologist told me to put Vaseline over the Retin-A at night, which forms a solid barrier. I didn't do that as I once got it in my eye and everything was a blur for much of the day. Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:43 am

Make sure you're using a high protection sunblock with minimum SPF30 (if you are having winter climate) and SPF50 is better if you live in a sunny climate. Retin A makes your skin more sensitive to damage by the sun and that would aggravate the drying and peeling effects too if you are not adequately protected from the sun.

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:16 am

i use sunscreen everyday. also, just to add - i dont use emu oil over the retin a, i use it on nights i dont use the retin a.

it just seems that my skin is a little bit dry and flaky and its accentuating any smile lines or squint lines i may have.

i just want the smoothness everyone speaks of

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:20 am

I really like cetaphil's moisturizing cream (I buy the one in the tube for hygienic purposes as opposed to the one in the tub)...I find it to be very soothing and moisturizing w/o being greasy at all. I use that at night and eucerin's everyday protection face lotion w/spf 30 during the day.

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:58 am

the smoothness will come just make sure your skin is hydrated and do you have flakiness? or dryness and redness , if it the later i suggest you dilute you retin-a or use less

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Nate the dry, flaking skin means the retin-a is working. It might take a couple of months or so for your skin to adjust. The cycle is 6 or 8 weeks for your skin to renew (I think ) Confused

After about 12 weeks you will really notice a difference, it isn't a quick fix exactly but it is worth the wait.
Just find a moisturizer you like. I use something a little heavier at night; if you use the moisturizer after applying the retin-a it will work to dilute it a little.
Most important is the find the highest SPF daily moisturizer you can. When using the retin-a your skin is extremely sensitive to the sun. Sensitive to the point that any exposure could/will result in aging damage. I use retin-a everyday (Obagi Nu-Derm system) and I do not leave the house without spf 45 in the winter and spf 60 in the summer.

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:44 am

So while on the topic of Retin-A... does the active NOT reach the skin underneath if one uses a light protective layer of, say, IS Clinical Youth Serum or Dermalastyl? I don't see why it shouldn't. Many EDSers layer their products. That's what I do, and then slap the SB oil on the top, leaving about ten minutes between the IS Clinical/Dermalastyl and the Retin-A. It doesn't flake but perhaps that's because it's not working.

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:03 am

Antonia I am not an expert (we need Rileygirl) but I think if you put the retin-a on 1st it will penetrate a little better. I agree that it is probably working its way into your skin but may be diluted.

I layer products like crazy - if I haven't put 4 things on my face I feel naked. Laughing

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:16 am

Thanks, Alley. Yes, I'm into layering too. I put the R-A on after the IS Clinical or Dermalastyl because those are eye formulations and very thin. The RA is thick and looks like it would prevent anything else from penetrating. Perhaps once every two days I will put the R-A on first. Just have to play around with it, I guess...

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:23 am

To get the maximum effect out of Retin-A, I would definitely use it on its own. Layering products is equivalent to diluting products. In my opinion, there is no good reason for diluting Retin-A, which is the most studied and most effective anti-aging product.

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:40 am

I am using RAM (Retin-A Micro) and still in the "getting to know you" stage myself. I use it only 4 times a week to avoid a crisis and like to use a hyaluronic acid serum in the am over the Vitamin C serum (waiting 30 min between each layer here) and then my sunscreen (Avene SPF 50+ cream). I use a microfiber cloth to exfoliate gently any flakes, but so far *touch wood* it hasn't been too bad, and no redness either. I am going verrrrrrrry slowly here, I know, but I hate that dry/tight/red/flakey stuff. That just made me quit RA altogether before!

A lot of ppl here love emu oil, but I can't take the "chickeny" smell, so I use argan oil (in Cleopatra's Secret Serum) occasionally when I think I feel too dry. I put this on OVER the RAM at night after a 30 min wait. This works pretty well.

As far as layering RA *OVER* other products, I think Keliu uses "Let's Make Collagen" by SAS under her RA with really good results. Maybe she will chime in here....

I use LMC over my C serum in the am, depending on how my skin feels that day. It smells kinda funny, since it contains frankincense, but I got used to it, and it isn't noticeable under the SS after a while. HTH

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:31 pm

Here are a few tips that might help when using a Retin-A product.

- For new users, it's best to start at the lowest strength and build from there. It's only my opinion, but I would think one skin cycle (6 weeks), would be a good time frame for each strength, and work up from there.

- A little dryness/flaking is normal during the first skin cycle of use, (up to 6 weeks) If continued dryness, redness, itching, irritation continues, perhaps this product isn't for those folks..

- With continued use your skin will be increasingly more susceptible to UV damage.. In other words, if you aren't going to be very diligent with sunscreen and sun avoidance, don't waste your time... (You will be worse off a year from now, if you are a sun bunny.. Crying or Very sad

)

- Use the minimum amount necessary to cover your treatment areas, and only use once per day at bedtime...(More is not better.)

- Apply to a clean dry face 20 to 30 minutes after cleansing with a mild, non alcohol cleanser... (This is to cut down on irritation, period.) Do not apply any other topicals prior to Retin-A. (See next tip Antonia!!!)

- Avoid the use of other skin products on the treated area for at least 1 hour following application of tretinoin topical. If you can do without anything added on top of Retin-A, that is most definitely best.

And now, DRUG INTERACTION precautions. (Drugs.com has great info on all drugs, and has been a savior to me over my years in practice, as well as life.. Very Happy

)

- ***Do not use skin products that contain benzoyl peroxide, sulfur, resorcinol, or salicylic acid unless otherwise directed by your doctor. These products can cause severe skin irritation if used with tretinoin topical.***

- a diuretic (water pill), tetracycline (Sumycin, Panmycin, Robitet), minocycline (Minocin), doxycycline (Doryx, Vibramycin), demeclocycline (Declomycin), and others;

an antibiotic such as lomefloxacin (Maxaquin), sparfloxacin (Zagam), ciprofloxacin (Cipro), ofloxacin (Floxin), and others;

a sulfa drug such as Bactrim, Septra, Cotrim, and others; or

chlorpromazine (Thorazine), prochlorperazine (Compazine), fluphenazine (Permitil, Prolixin), promethazine (Phenergan, Promethegan), perphenazine (Trilafon), and others.

I have been trying to find out if there is any interaction between the MSM supplement (contains sulfur), and the topical use of vitamin A products in general, and haven't recieved a straight answer thus far.. My PDR (which is a few years old) didn't address it either... Crying or Very sad

Hope that helps!

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 pm

thank u for the prompt replies! For SPF, ive been using for about a year now Olay Complete Defense spf 30 for Sensitive Skin. It has 10% zinc oxide i believe, along with a chemical ingredient. i love it.

ill just continue using retin A as i am, and after 6 weeks if i dont see any kind of difference or improvement i'll re evaluate.

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:09 pm

Kassy, uh oh! Do you know what the adverse effects of diuretics/Retin-A are? Thank you for the informative post!

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:32 pm

Kassy, what a mine of useful info you are! I peel horribly (and go blue) in the areas where I put Retin-A directly on my skin. I'll grit my teeth, make sure I don't have any clients to visit for a few days, and try it again. I only ever apply at night and wear dark glasses as well as sunscreen so that's not much of a problem. I think I may stick with the SBT oil afterwards though, for a while at least. Gosh! What will I do with my Dermalastyl Eye serum? You are supposed to apply it twice daily... Shock

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:20 pm

Septembergirl wrote:

To get the maximum effect out of Retin-A, I would definitely use it on its own. Layering products is equivalent to diluting products. In my opinion, there is no good reason for diluting Retin-A, which is the most studied and most effective anti-aging product.

I agree 100%. I think the only thing I would put on over the Retin A (which I do) is an eye cream. Because the skin around the eye is thinner, I personally think it is ok to use an eye cream after the RA has penetrated about 1 hour. So, Antonia, if I were use, I would continue to use your eye cream twice a day, just wait about 1 hour after the RA at night before you apply it.

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:43 pm

Does anyone know if anythng has been written about cycling Retin-A? I'm thinking three months on, three months off, with all the other good stuff in between. I asked my derm about this years ago but he didn't have much to say on the topic. By the way, I used to work with his wife, Jean Carruthers ("inventor" of Botox for cosmetic purposes)! She was adorable. Brave too because she began her Botox experiments on herself after her strabismus patients told her that they wanted her to carry on for ever with their Botox shots as the shots made them look so lovely and serene. I used to do the PR and a newsletter for the Ophthalmology Assn. when Jean was the head honcho. Ah, those were the (wrinkle-free) days... Laughing

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:15 pm

fawnie wrote:

Kassy, uh oh! Do you know what the adverse effects of diuretics/Retin-A are? Thank you for the informative post!

It will make your skin more sensitive to natural and also artificial light.

The following meds do likewise;

tetracycline (Sumycin, Panmycin, Robitet), minocycline (Minocin), doxycycline (Doryx, Vibramycin), demeclocycline (Declomycin), and others;
an antibiotic such as lomefloxacin (Maxaquin), sparfloxacin (Zagam), ciprofloxacin (Cipro), ofloxacin (Floxin), and others;
a sulfa drug such as Bactrim, Septra, Cotrim, and others; or
chlorpromazine (Thorazine), prochlorperazine (Compazine), fluphenazine (Permitil, Prolixin), promethazine (Phenergan, Promethegan), perphenazine (Trilafon), and others.

The following can produce severe skin irritation if used with Retin-A;

benzoyl peroxide, sulfur, resorcinol, or salicylic acid

http://www.drugs-med.com/pharmacy/retin_a

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:19 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Septembergirl wrote:

To get the maximum effect out of Retin-A, I would definitely use it on its own. Layering products is equivalent to diluting products. In my opinion, there is no good reason for diluting Retin-A, which is the most studied and most effective anti-aging product.

I agree 100%. I think the only thing I would put on over the Retin A (which I do) is an eye cream. Because the skin around the eye is thinner, I personally think it is ok to use an eye cream after the RA has penetrated about 1 hour. So, Antonia, if I were use, I would continue to use your eye cream twice a day, just wait about 1 hour after the RA at night before you apply it.

I totally agree!

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:30 pm

Antonia wrote:

Does anyone know if anythng has been written about cycling Retin-A?

Antonia, the only thing I have read about cycling RA was in the Daniel Yarosh book, "The New Science of Perfect Skin". I think he recommended 6 weeks A, 6 weeks AHA and continue cycling. I have not read that book for a while, so my memory is not great on it. There was a long thread regarding that book on EDS. Maybe you can search for it, as I believe that information was also somewhere in that thread!

Kassy, that is great info on Retin A and the meds. Thanks for posting that! Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:35 pm

Thanks Rileygirl, I'll check that one out. It seems to be a good idea as I can't see the collagen dissipating in three months. I think one would have to use it continuously for a year though before cycling.

free skin care · Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:53 am

I've been applying Crisco after about an hour after applying Renova. My flaky dry skin is gone!! Crisco is so soothing and it really softens and plumps my skin. I love it to because there is no smell. I've been using Retin-A and Renova for over 5 years now but I still get a little flaky skin once in a while. Especially during wintertime. Now that I'm getting older I need something to soothe and plump my skin. Crisco works better than any moisturizer I've ever used. You only need a tiny amount emulsified in your hands then I apply to my skin and under my eyes. I thought it sounded crazy when I first read about it. After I read all the raves about Crisco on makeupalley.com and QVC beauty banter I gave it a try.

free skin care · Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:07 pm

Come on Kassy fess up you have a PHD in Chemistry Laughing

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