Massaging under eyes to help fill hollows?
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Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:05 pm

Hi guys,

So I've looked into many different ways to try and treat this problem caused by thinning of skin. The only ways that other people are recommending to try are makeup, which I don't want to branch out into as I'm a man, or a vigorous massage to help plump the skin up.

I want to try a vigorous massage to my eye hollows. However I'm worried this will cause more aging due to the rough treatment I will give to this region.

Will this obviously cause more wrinkles under my eyes? Is there a way I can do it which will avoid that?

Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:25 am

You might want to check into an MSM product. From all the reviews I've read on different brands, it seems as though Jarrow Formulas is the most popular. That's what I use.

There are lots of great articles online. This is one is very comprehensive: "The MSM Miracle"

Rubbing is not recommended.

Hope this helps.

free skin care · Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:58 pm

massaging under the eye area has been helpful for me as far as reducing/eliminating under eye bags but I have personally not had a filling in of the area, although others on EDS have reported success .

Rubbing under the eyes is an ancient way,in Eastern Asia (China, Japan) as well as a modern way, via quite a few massage therapists and facial exercise gurus, of keeping the under eye area smooth.

In addition to massaging the area quite rigorously, I also do cosmetic Gua Sha and cupping on the area.

It has not created more wrinkles for me nor many others on this forum, but everyone's skin is different, so personal experimentation is recommended.

If you do decide to manipulate the area, there are a lot of different techniques you can use,so do some research on this forum.

Also you may want to start out applying very gentle pressure and then skipping some days each time you manipulate the area just to see how your own skin is responding.

free skin care · Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:27 pm

Ef,
Have you had personal success with using MSM for filling out under eye hollows? I Have used it in the past but did not notice that effect for myself.
Actually it is a great product though,for many different health issues including quality of skin. and one I keep forgetting to reorder (I did use a different brand than you do, one that is supposed to be 'alive'..I will post that brand here later) so your post has stimulated me to take it again.

free skin care · Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:07 pm

Outside of fillers or surgery there are several things you can try...but most all of them are long term solutions and don't happen overnight.

If you have actual hollows then it may be a sign of aging; you lose the fat pads there as you grow older. If it isn't aging then it might be diet, stress, fatigue or dehydration. My eyes always look worse when I'm tired or dehydrated.

Vigorous massage is out. The skin is already very thin and you'll end up stretching your skin and having a worse problem. I don't think anyone advocates vigorous rubbing and pulling in that area.
Face exercises are helpful. You can check some of the threads around here (search) and check out some examples on youtube. Most of them are a resistance or isometric type of exercise.
You want to increase circulation and encourage building collagen and cell turnover for thicker skin. The under eye area isn't as resilient as the rest of the face but you can still improve it.

Retinols are good for under the eyes. It may make them worse initially (drying) so use sparingly. I use retin-a under my eyes but it took a while of acclimating myself to it before advancing to the eye area. I usually follow it with a moisturizer or something like extra virgin olive oil or organic virgin coconut oil.I have seen an improvement but it has taken about 6 months.

Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:05 pm

Hi JasmineRosey,

Yes, I have experienced wonderful results with MSM.
In the beginning I was not taking enough, always careful about sensitivities. After increasing the dosage, fabulous.

The article, The MSM Miracle helped me to better understand the dosages.

Your skin will begin to feel like silk. Take before and after pictures. When you reach the right dosage for your body, you'll be a happy camper.

free skin care · Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:01 pm

Thanks, EF.

Tigerlily, although some people may be sensitive to vigorous under the eye massage, actually there are a lot of people who do recommend it.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'vigorous'. SOme examples of vigorous under eye manipulation are: the Detox massage, (which is Far Eastern in origin) which recommends a strong movement 30 times across the under eye area, and there are those that use a toothbrush or firmer brush to massage/dry brush vigorously under the eye, also, facial guru's like LouLou from 'Ageless if you Dare' recommends pulling, etc on the under the eye skin, and i use a Gua Sha board to vigorously massage under my eyes (taught by a Chinese professor of Traditional Chinese Medicine who also has a Spa in New York)and also a cupping device (the large vaculiftor for the face) to 'suction' the skin under my eyes into the 'form' of the vaculiftor.
These are only a few examples of being vigorous with under the eye skin.

again, it seems wise to caution that everyone's skin is different, some may not do well with vigorous manipulation of the under eye skin, and imo, it'd also a good idea to start out gently with any technique, with lots of space between session till the skin under the eye gets firmer and more resilient and also to see if there are any negative effects from any technique being used.

free skin care · Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:19 pm

I personally do not think it's a good idea to massage under eye area as the skin around eye area is too delicate to take that. I think eye care products with retinol will increase some elasticity and when you apply eye cream, you can just dab gently instead of rubbing.

free skin care · Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:34 pm

As JR suggests, massage can be good for some and not for others. I personally don't think youngsters should do anything to their eyes - I've read too many horror stories where people have done exercises and/or massage and not been able to undo what they did.

However to those that think it isn't a good idea - thats usually the argument given that the skin is so thin because it hasn't been massaged. So the skin thins because it is left untouched. So by vigoriously massaging it you can restimulate the skin to becoming thicker.

I know I was hesitant at first but did it when I was desperate and so wish I had done it sooner but I was in my 50s. Don't know how old the original poster is but my advice is if you are under 40 leave your eyes alone. Just personal opinion but there you go.

free skin care · Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:35 pm

also don't forget FlexEffect too - Deborah Crowley has amazing eyes, and Loulou used to be a trainer for their program prior to creating Ageless.

jasminerosey wrote:

SOme examples of vigorous under eye manipulation are: the Detox massage, (which is Far Eastern in origin) which recommends a strong movement 30 times across the under eye area, and there are those that use a toothbrush or firmer brush to massage/dry brush vigorously under the eye, also, facial guru's like LouLou from 'Ageless if you Dare' recommends pulling, etc on the under the eye skin

free skin care · Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:50 am

Hi TheresaMary

Yes, Deb Crowley's eyes are AMAZING.

I used Loulou's 'Ageless if you Dare' as an example of under eye manipulation because I am more familiar with her views on pulling and pinching, etc. (although I do incorporate a lot of other aspects of the Flex Effect program into my routine as well and I Love the way that Loulou expresses herself about the face.

I wanted to include a quote from her Facebook page here, but for some reason my paste function isn't working. For anyone who is interested, they can check out her Facebook page by googling Ageless if you Dare. Not necessarily to do her program but to get an 'alternative' perspective on the dynamic function of the face.

free skin care · Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:18 am

I'm not opposed to any exercise or massage for the area...I just know from experience to favor the least heavy handed as too much manipulation will make mine look worse.
Facial detox massage is very stimulating without unnecessary pulling and Tonya Zavasta's massage is the same. I do some of the Tanaka lymph drainage massage too and I favor the eye exercises that are more resistance oriented.
Many of these favor oil, cream or water on your face to lessen any unnecessary pulling.

free skin care · Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:41 am

Thanks Tigerlily for explaining further.

I think it helps those new to EDS to realize that many of us are manipulating the under eye area, even though the technique and intensity we use may differ according to the individual needs of our skin.

For example, I also do the detox massage program, but for my skin, I would consider the under eye movements to be vigorous even though they are smooth movements because they are executed with such speed and intensity. Also I cannot do them w/o applying oil to the area, even though the creator of the technique says not to, although I'm sure I would get better results if my under eye skin could tolerate being stroked so strongly w/o moisturizing

In general, my under eye skin can tolerate a lot of intensity as long as the area is moisturized and the implement (my fingers or a device such as the Gua Sha board) is smooth but my under eye skin cannot tolerate even mild manipulation with a device that is textured, like a skin brush or the silver mesh gloves that come with the Pico Toner or a microfiber exfoliating washcloth, even though others use these textured implements with great success.

I'm saying this to again stress that everyone's skin is deferent and all programs should be done gently and with lots of space between sessions to see how the program/technique is working for your skin's biological individuality.

I am repeating this over and over because I think that people often see a technique that is being glorified by those having success with it, and then start doing it themselves, full force, only to discover, too late, that it is harming their skin in a way that can take a long time to heal.

This is not only true of under eye manipulation, or manipulation of the skin in general, but of topicals, too. (For example I cannot tolerate acids, especially retinol, in any form, on my skin)

free skin care · Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:43 am

Theresa Mary,
I think that it is important to stimulate the eye area, including the under eye even in the twenties and thirties. It just depends upon the techniques used and the intensity and spacing of the sessions.

I think most of the difficulty that younger people have with using under eye (or other facial manipulations) is that they are doing programs that are oriented toward older skin and it can be 'over-kill' for younger skin.

No time to give examples now. WIll try to do so soon.

Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:58 am

I tried to find another thread where Deborah Crowley described her eye massage. I can't find it.

I do it as many nights as I can, and I seriously roll all the skin between my fingers around my eyes including eyebrows, upper lids, lower lids and around the temple and crows feet area. I do three rounds. And I also do pulling on them, as Ageless describes.

When you first start, you have to wonder what you have done. My eyes got very puffy for several days, but I kept going. Within a week the skin seems to snap in place. It will start to feel firmer and thicker.

My eyes look terrible right now, because I have been eating too much wheat. Now that I'm weaning myself, I should get back to normal.

free skin care · Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:28 pm

I agree with you that stimulating it is a good idea but my experience on this forum and many others suggests that when youngsters (and I mean people in 20's and 30's) do facial exercises for their eyes they seem to develop all sorts of problems generally. I liken it to the old saying "if it aint broke don't fix it" because I have read too many horror stories from people doing lots of different programs - enough to know they all seem to o that to young folk.

jasminerosey wrote:

Theresa Mary,
I think that it is important to stimulate the eye area, including the under eye even in the twenties and thirties. It just depends upon the techniques used and the intensity and spacing of the sessions.

I think most of the difficulty that younger people have with using under eye (or other facial manipulations) is that they are doing programs that are oriented toward older skin and it can be 'over-kill' for younger skin.

No time to give examples now. WIll try to do so soon.

free skin care · Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:22 pm

Theresa Mary,

I wasn't thinking of facial exercises programs for those in their 20's or 30's, but other kinds of under eye manipulation.

I was thinking about how, in TCM, the meridians of the body go thru the face, including the under eye area, so there is a reciprocal interaction between the health of the body and the clarity, vitality of the skin.

So I was thinking more along the lines of acupressure twice a week, warming the hands and cupping them over the eyes while visualizing the area taking in vital energy (a Chi Chung meditation/technique), gentle lymphatic massage a few times a week, things like that.

free skin care · Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:09 pm

Okay a few things here. Massage doesn't and cant cause wrinkles. You see a wrinkle in essence is damaged tissue pure and simple. Kids move their faces and make expressions of all sorts 100 times a day yet their tissue snaps back because its fit and healthy. So first and foremost my advice would be to make that your target. Secondly going at it with vigorus massage is not a good idea. You need to work up to it challenging the tissue to become stronger and healthier on a gradual basis. Going at it gung ho will likely produce results that will scare you - but are merely a reaction to what the body (or face) is being subjected to. When I first started massaging my eyes - they would go extremely puffy. Nowadays I'm much more aggressive than the average person and my eyes show no such results.

benzerbru wrote:

I want to try a vigorous massage to my eye hollows. However I'm worried this will cause more aging due to the rough treatment I will give to this region.

Will this obviously cause more wrinkles under my eyes? Is there a way I can do it which will avoid that?

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