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Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:54 am  |
For those seeking DIY liposome-actives I have sourced two very popular anti-aging ingredients that support this popular technology - Coenzyme-10 & Lacto-Ceramide. I have not tired these particular liposome-actives personally, but hope other DIY formulators will be inspired to give them a try! (Kassy I had you in mind here, girl!!!!  ).
The company selling these actives is called Making Cosmetics -www.makingcosmetics.com/Actives-Cosmeceuticals/Liposomes-c9/
These actives are not cheap by any means and this is because you need so little of them in a formulation, so a small amount goes a long way.
If anyone knows of any other online e-tailer that sells liposome-actives, please post your source(s) in this thread!!!
Here is a very brief excerpt regarding "liposomes" and why they are so desirable.
"Liposomes are nano-sized liposome particles resembling biomembranes and have a very high affinity for the skin. They can easily penetrate through the hard horny layer of the skin. Based on this feature, active ingredients can be incorporated into liposomes to enhance their absorption by the skin and thus their efficacy. In fact, liposome-encapsulation largely reduces the amount of the active ingredient required for effectiveness as compared to non-encapsulated, pure active ingredients." |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:31 pm |
Hi ScotsLass, I am using lacto-ceramide in an uber active serum I make with matrixyl, tripeptide, argirilene, and skin tight.
I am very interested in finding a base product that penetrates the skin barrier and is a good carrier so if you read of anything like that please post!
Other than liposome encapsulation I've read in Zo formulations that by using retinol and vitamin c prior to peptides the retinol and vit c disrupt the stratum corneum and allow peptides to penetrate better...
There is a lot to learn  |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:48 am |
When I spoke to the fellow who run's Cellbone he said that rosehip seed oi was a carrier that would allow actives to penetrate deeply into the akin...
i had asked him about this because his site offers a special ingredient..not as natural as i would have liked..that i was therefore hesitant to use..and he told me that it wasn't necesary to use that ingredient and suggested the rosehip seed oil as an equally effective ingredient |
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71 years, primarily raw living food 35 years(vegan 45 years) herbal tea decoctions, homeopathy, TCM, facial massage, facial exercises, vacu-lifting, gua aha, shiatsu/acupressure, intention, home microcurrrent |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:08 am |
| jasminerosey wrote: |
When I spoke to the fellow who run's Cellbone he said that rosehip seed oi was a carrier that would allow actives to penetrate deeply into the akin...
i had asked him about this because his site offers a special ingredient..not as natural as i would have liked..that i was therefore hesitant to use..and he told me that it wasn't necesary to use that ingredient and suggested the rosehip seed oil as an equally effective ingredient |
Hi jasminerosey, I use rose hip oil in my formulas also along with meadow foam seed oil and squalane. Which ingredient was not as natural as you preferred? |
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Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:55 am |
| seems to be very complicated...i'd rather buy some safe products... |
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Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:29 pm |
| Actually it is not complicated at all and you know exactly what and how much of what you are using |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:56 am |
| Is Coenzyme-10 exactly the same as Coenzyme-Q10? - I've been adding that to my Emu Oil for about a year now. I buy it from Skinactives and it's very cheap - $9.50 for .6gm which is just the right amount to add to 4oz Emu Oil. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:27 am |
| Many cosmetic products use DMI (Dimethyl Isosorbide) for better product penetration. DMI could be bought as active for DIY: http://cellbone.com/DMI_Solution.htm |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:31 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Is Coenzyme-10 exactly the same as Coenzyme-Q10? - I've been adding that to my Emu Oil for about a year now. I buy it from Skinactives and it's very cheap - $9.50 for .6gm which is just the right amount to add to 4oz Emu Oil. |
Sorry for the typo!  By the time I realized the "Q" was missing the edit button had expired. I had hoped everyone would know it was Q10 when they opened the link to learn more about this liposome version. I see now that this isn't a given, so I'm glad you asked for clarification as others may have mistaken it for something else too!
The reason this specific Coenzyme-Q10 active is so expensive is because it is encapsulated in a phospholipid double nano-emulsion with Vitamin E. Encapsulated liposomes reduce the molecule size of Coenzyme-Q10 tremendously as well as help to stabilize the active for optimal effectiveness. Which means it now has the ability to penetrate the skin far more deeper and become much more potent since it can now reach the areas of the dermis that will benefit from it the most. Liposomes also prevent water-loss so they have great moisturizing abilities. The Coenzyme-Q10 that you buy from Skinactives has a larger molecule size because it hasn't been liposome-encapsulated. This results in far less Coenzyme-Q10 being able to penetrate your skin (again because of the molecule size), and instead leaves a certain percentage of it collecting on the skin's surface.
I am a big fan of Emu Oil and have used it myself in the past as a penetrating enhancer to push my serums deeper into my skin. I don't know how effective the actual penetration was, but have faith that the Emu oil was helping the trans-dermal delivery on some level. So why use the liposome version of Coenzyme-Q10 if Emu oil is (hopefully) helping the regular active? Well what you have to keep in mind is that the version you are adding to Emu oil does not behave the same way the liposome-encapsulated active does. The molecule size of a non-encapsulated active remains large in size and Emu oil cannot alter this. Your Emu oil will attempt to deliver more of it deeper into your skin, but the problem remains with the original molecule size of the Coenzyme-Q10. The smaller it is, the more effective it is for trans-dermal delivery.
The other big boon of using a liposome active is that you require a fraction of it in a formulation compared to the non-liposome version. It is so much more potent that a tiny amount will go a very long way.
| Quote: |
Description: Vitamin-like molecule (ubiquinone, ubidecarenone) obtained from plant material. Q10 is encapsulated in liposomes (phospholipid double nano-emulsion with vitamin E) to maintain activity, enhance skin penetration & potency. Can be easly incorporated into aqueous formulas. Activity 6.8-7.3% Q10 (liposome-encapsulation largely reduces the amount of Q10 required for effectiveness as compared to non-encapsulated pure Q10). Orange-opaque liquid, faint odor. CAS# 307-95-0.
INCI Name: Coenzyme Q10.
Properties: Potent antioxidant with effective anti-aging & anti-wrinkle properties, reinforces collagen & elastin production of connective tissue, potent moisturizer (liposomes penetrate into skin preventing water-loss).
Use: Can be added to formulas as is, recommended final concentration: 2 - 6%.
Application: Anti-aging & anti-wrinkle products, pre/after sun lotions, hydrating / rejuvenating & moisturizing skin care products, eye wrinkle treatment. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:47 am |
The reason that Cellbone and other cosmetic products are using DMI is because the molecular size of Argireline, SYN-AKE, SNAP-8, Pentapeptide-3, Copper Peptide & Matrixyl-3000 (as an example), is so large that a common problem experienced in formulations that contain these actives is that they collect on the surface of the skin and do not penetrate the skin sufficiently or reach the dermis at all. This is why the Remergent & ZO lines contain a number of liposome-encapsulated actives in their formulations. The benefits of the liposome delivery systems are very impressive and promise much more than non-liposome ingredients. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:14 am |
| batwhirl wrote: |
| jasminerosey wrote: |
When I spoke to the fellow who run's Cellbone he said that rosehip seed oi was a carrier that would allow actives to penetrate deeply into the akin...
i had asked him about this because his site offers a special ingredient..not as natural as i would have liked..that i was therefore hesitant to use..and he told me that it wasn't necesary to use that ingredient and suggested the rosehip seed oil as an equally effective ingredient |
Hi jasminerosey, I use rose hip oil in my formulas also along with meadow foam seed oil and squalane. Which ingredient was not as natural as you preferred? |
I am going to take the liberty here and say that jasminerosey is referring to Cellbone's DMI (Dimethyl Isosorbide) Carrier Solution. I had discussed the very same concerns about using DMI as a penetrating enhancer with the Cellbone folks a long time ago, and they told me I did not have to use it if I was uncomfortable with it and could use a natural carrier oil and achieve the same effect. Unfortunately rosehip oil breaks me out in the worst of ways.  |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:31 pm |
| batwhirl wrote: |
Hi ScotsLass, I am using lacto-ceramide in an uber active serum I make with matrixyl, tripeptide, argirilene, and skin tight.
I am very interested in finding a base product that penetrates the skin barrier and is a good carrier so if you read of anything like that please post!
Other than liposome encapsulation I've read in Zo formulations that by using retinol and vitamin c prior to peptides the retinol and vit c disrupt the stratum corneum and allow peptides to penetrate better...
There is a lot to learn |
Hi batwhirl - I'm not certain if we are looking for the same thing regarding a penetrating base for our DIY projects. I have been searching for a liposome/nanosome base to "load" my actives into (individually) and found what I am looking for, but doubt I can buy it directly due to purchasing restrictions.
Everything I've come across regarding the creation of liposomes and nanosomes all points to one significant ingredient called Phosphatidylcholine (PC).This unsaturated substance is extracted from Lecithin, which is a phospholipid/oil mixture derived from Soybeans. For whatever reason the INCI list continues to refer to Phosphatidylcholine as Lecithin, which is rather misleading because this substance is extracted from Lecithin and is not to be confused as one and the same thing. Lecithin on it's own contains approximately 20% Phosphatidylcholine and is commonly used as an emulsifier in food and skin care products. But it isn't the emulsifying attributes of Lecithin that aid in the creation of liposomes & nanosomes, in fact emulsifiers are destructive to liposomes & nanosomes. It's pure unsaturated Phosphatidylcholine in high concentrations (ideally at 90% or more) that you need. I don't know what the exact method is to extract Phosphatidylcholine from Lecithin other than its an expensive manufacturing process.
On the up side I have finally discovered how empty liposomes are created!  Unlike its base substance Lecithin, Phosphatidylcholine mixed with water will spontaneously generate cell-like structures whose membranes are built up in bilayers just like in natural cell structures. These hollow bodies (or "empty shells') are what comprise the liposomes. Once this step is accomplished you now have the ability to encapsulate, or "load", your active agents inside these liposomes for enhanced product penetration & delivery into the skin.
Here is a helpful website that discusses Liposomes and Nanosomes in greater detail. This site also sells nanosome serums and other products using this technology, as well as offers a really unique feature of custom-making your own serum/lotion through them directly. They supply a special nanosome base that you can customize by adding up to 7 additional ingredients of your choice. They then formulate it and ship it to you. And the batch can be as small as 2 oz and go up from there. Of course this service is on the pricey side, but not nearly as expensive as one of the high-end ZO products!
An Introduction to Nanosomes:
www.elsomresearch.com/learning/technology/nanosomes.htm#part2
www.topical-formulations.com
A service that allows you to custom-make your own nanosome product:
www.elsomresearch.com/
What I am really after is the nanosome delivery system, but I can see that this is going to be a far greater challenge to acquire due to the extensive manufacturing procedures involved. For anyone interested in reading what takes place to create nanosomes for the medical industry (which I am assuming utilizes the same technologies to encapsulate cosmetic actives), take a look at this article:
www.aphios.com/PDF/Phospholipid_Nanosomes_Castor_2005.pdf |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:39 pm |
| ScotsLass - This is all very interesting and usefull information. I will definitely be having a look at the Cellbone Q10. Thanks for all the input - and keep it coming! |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:01 pm |
You're welcome, Keliu. I find the liposome/nanosome delivery system in skin care products very interesting as well.
BTW - the nanosome encapsulated Coenzyme-Q10 active that I was talking about is from a company called Making Cosmetics -www.MakingCosmetics.com, and not Cellbone. I don't want you searching the Cellbone site for a product they don't have! |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:24 pm |
Kassy - the fella I posted links to above who sells the nanosome serums and offers the service of customizing your own nanosome formulations (www.elsomresearch.com ) also wrote two of the chapters for the book you shared with me and just posted a link to (Delivery System Handbook for Personal Care and Cosmetic Products: Technology, Applications and Formulations by M. R. Rosen).
Here is his bio (the publication info is at the very bottom of the page) -www.elsomresearch.com/CV/yechiel.htm |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:28 pm |
| One of my friends has ordered from Elsom for a while now. I should ask her how she likes their products. |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:22 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
| One of my friends has ordered from Elsom for a while now. I should ask her how she likes their products. |
I'd love to know what your friend has tried from Elsom and if she has received good service from this company. The nanosome products do look interesting! |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:56 am |
| ScotsLass wrote: |
| batwhirl wrote: |
Hi ScotsLass, I am using lacto-ceramide in an uber active serum I make with matrixyl, tripeptide, argirilene, and skin tight.
I am very interested in finding a base product that penetrates the skin barrier and is a good carrier so if you read of anything like that please post!
Other than liposome encapsulation I've read in Zo formulations that by using retinol and vitamin c prior to peptides the retinol and vit c disrupt the stratum corneum and allow peptides to penetrate better...
There is a lot to learn |
Hi batwhirl - I'm not certain if we are looking for the same thing regarding a penetrating base for our DIY projects. I have been searching for a liposome/nanosome base to "load" my actives into (individually) and found what I am looking for, but doubt I can buy it directly due to purchasing restrictions.
Everything I've come across regarding the creation of liposomes and nanosomes all points to one significant ingredient called Phosphatidylcholine (PC).This unsaturated substance is extracted from Lecithin, which is a phospholipid/oil mixture derived from Soybeans. For whatever reason the INCI list continues to refer to Phosphatidylcholine as Lecithin, which is rather misleading because this substance is extracted from Lecithin and is not to be confused as one and the same thing. Lecithin on it's own contains approximately 20% Phosphatidylcholine and is commonly used as an emulsifier in food and skin care products. But it isn't the emulsifying attributes of Lecithin that aid in the creation of liposomes & nanosomes, in fact emulsifiers are destructive to liposomes & nanosomes. It's pure unsaturated Phosphatidylcholine in high concentrations (ideally at 90% or more) that you need. I don't know what the exact method is to extract Phosphatidylcholine from Lecithin other than its an expensive manufacturing process.
On the up side I have finally discovered how empty liposomes are created! Unlike its base substance Lecithin, Phosphatidylcholine mixed with water will spontaneously generate cell-like structures whose membranes are built up in bilayers just like in natural cell structures. These hollow bodies (or "empty shells') are what comprise the liposomes. Once this step is accomplished you now have the ability to encapsulate, or "load", your active agents inside these liposomes for enhanced product penetration & delivery into the skin.
Here is a helpful website that discusses Liposomes and Nanosomes in greater detail. This site also sells nanosome serums and other products using this technology, as well as offers a really unique feature of custom-making your own serum/lotion through them directly. They supply a special nanosome base that you can customize by adding up to 7 additional ingredients of your choice. They then formulate it and ship it to you. And the batch can be as small as 2 oz and go up from there. Of course this service is on the pricey side, but not nearly as expensive as one of the high-end ZO products!
An Introduction to Nanosomes:
www.elsomresearch.com/learning/technology/nanosomes.htm#part2
www.topical-formulations.com
A service that allows you to custom-make your own nanosome product:
www.elsomresearch.com/
What I am really after is the nanosome delivery system, but I can see that this is going to be a far greater challenge to acquire due to the extensive manufacturing procedures involved. For anyone interested in reading what takes place to create nanosomes for the medical industry (which I am assuming utilizes the same technologies to encapsulate cosmetic actives), take a look at this article:
www.aphios.com/PDF/Phospholipid_Nanosomes_Castor_2005.pdf |
Hi ScotsLass, finally took a day to catch up and just now read your post...very interesting:-) The more we understand the more effective our personal formulation might be:-) When I have another moment I'll read the links you provided. Thanks for the contribution and have a great day! |
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Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:14 am |
| batwhirl wrote: |
Hi ScotsLass, finally took a day to catch up and just now read your post...very interesting:-) The more we understand the more effective our personal formulation might be:-) |
Ditto. I just read through all the links, and I feel like I'm back in school again!  Thank you ScotsLass for so much information, it made me understand a lot better how skin care works! |
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Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:29 pm |
| batwhirl wrote: |
| Hi ScotsLass, I am using lacto-ceramide in an uber active serum I make with matrixyl, tripeptide, argirilene, and skin tight. |
Batwhirl, How is that Uber active serum working out for you? Please share!! tx fawnie |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:01 pm |
| fawnie wrote: |
| batwhirl wrote: |
| Hi ScotsLass, I am using lacto-ceramide in an uber active serum I make with matrixyl, tripeptide, argirilene, and skin tight. |
Batwhirl, How is that Uber active serum working out for you? Please share!! tx fawnie |
Hi fawnie, I love it...the only thing I don't like is the fragrance I used! The issue I have is I don't know which ingredients are most effective because I didn't want to try them one by one as is often suggested! It seems from the active fact sheets that the most obvious and immediate results would be from Matrixyl 3000, Skintight AP and Argireline in that order. I forgot in the previous post that I also included Teprenone.
If you would like pm me and I'll send you my formula. I may also adjust it in the future just haven’t thought of how at this point. The formula contains 51% actives and I work with grams. A rep for a local ingredient company indicated the point of diminishing return is 10% for most actives so I used anywhere between 7.5 and 10%. |
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:58 pm |
| batwhirl wrote: |
| Hi ScotsLass, finally took a day to catch up and just now read your post...very interesting:-) The more we understand the more effective our personal formulation might be:-) When I have another moment I'll read the links you provided. Thanks for the contribution and have a great day! |
Hey batwhirl - hope you found the linked info useful! And I totally agree; the more we understand about personal formulating (and the ingredients we use), the better our final concoctions will be! |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:01 am |
| fat_swan wrote: |
| batwhirl wrote: |
Hi ScotsLass, finally took a day to catch up and just now read your post...very interesting:-) The more we understand the more effective our personal formulation might be:-) |
Ditto. I just read through all the links, and I feel like I'm back in school again! Thank you ScotsLass for so much information, it made me understand a lot better how skin care works! |
Happy to share what I can and glad that some of it is helpful! |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:18 am |
I came across an interesting synthesized tetrapeptide that is encapsulated in a liposomal system from LotionCrafter.com. It's called Decorinyl and sounds ideal for mature skin that is losing firmness and elasticity. It's not cheap at $10.95 for 0.25 oz, but my guess is you do not need to use very much in a formulation to reach optimum concentration levels (thanks to it's delivery system!).  If anyone tries this active in one of their DIY potions (before LotionCrafter discontinues it), please share your experience here!
DECORINYL™ -www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Decorinyl-trade;-pr-16614.html
Decorinyl™ is a synthesized tetrapeptide which mimics the sequences of decorin that bind to collagen fibrils. It has been shown to regulate fibrillogenesis and control fibril growth, improving firmness and elasticity of the skin, ensuring uniformity of fibril diameter and spacing of collagen fibrils. In effect, it replaces the non-functional decorin encountered as the skin ages, and also sustains a superior moisture profile.
Fibrillogenesis is an essential process in tissue formation, but must be controlled and regulated in order to avoid excessive bundle-like aggregation of collagen. The fibrillogenesis control is the role of decorin, a small leucine-rich proteoglycan, which is associated with collagen fibrils at specific binding sites in the protein core, controlling fibril dimensions, the uniformity of their diameter and their regular spacing.
Aging skin contains a truncated form of decorin, which lacks binding regions with collagen fibrils, producing a negative effect on the elasticity on the skin. Decorinyl™ is a mimic peptide of these binding sequences that has been proven to regulate fibrillogenesis, control collagen fibril diameter and increase skin suppleness.
Decorinyl™ has been incorporated into a liposomal system for enhanced penetration, stability and efficacy. It is recommended for cosmetic formulations designed for mature skin where an improvement of suppleness and strength of skin is desired. It may be used in emulsions, gels and other formulations. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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