bio-identical hormones
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free skin care · Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:00 pm

I use the viville dot for my estrogen and just wanted to verify/clarify that it is a bioidentical hormone so I looked it up...this is a link to mayoclinic that talks about bioidenticals...unless I'm missing something, it is identical to our own.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bioidentical-hormones/AN01133

free skin care · Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:38 pm

MaryClaire wrote:

I use the viville dot for my estrogen and just wanted to verify/clarify that it is a bioidentical hormone so I looked it up...this is a link to mayoclinic that talks about bioidenticals...unless I'm missing something, it is identical to our own.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bioidentical-hormones/AN01133

I will attempt to answer your question to the best of my knowledge but please note I am neither a medical doctor nor am I trained in any scientific field related to your inquiry (I am just an ordinary lay person on the EDS forum).

The Vielle Dot is a prescription product which delivers estradiol to the body through a transdermal delivery patch system. The active (drug) is estradiol, commonly called 17β-estradiol, or just estradiolβ (the β is pronounced beta). The chemical formula of the drug in this patch is C18H2402; it is chemically described as estra-1,3,5 (10)-triene-3,17β-diol.

It is my understanding that one of the estrogens produced within the body by women during their reproductive years is estradiol (the body also produces Estrone and Estriol). The estradiol made in the body is (17β)-estra-1,3,5(10)-triene-3,17-diol, with the same exact chemical formula noted above (C18H2402).

Because this form of estrogen has a molecular weight of 272.39, it is small enough to pass through the skin and enter the bloodstream, producing systemic effects. The patch system enhances delivery and absorption of the drug.

The short answer to your question is YES, this this form of estrogen is identical to what your body produced and hence is biologically identical (bioidentical). I believe Josee (who is a doctor) mentioned earlier in this thread that there are some estrogen products which are bioidentical and available by prescription (as an alternative to Premarin). HTH

Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:51 pm

Josee wrote:

BTW, I realize that I somehow "hijacked" the thread with my unsolicited opinion!

So if anyone out there has been using bioidentical hormones, has experiences to share, and advice to give arym, please do so!

I promise I'll stay out Smile

I've been on bi-est and progesterone cream along with testosterone .6% for 2 years now and I am 51 years old. All I can say is that I feel so much better now than I did when I was 45 years old! Also, a side benefit is your skin and muscle retains it's youthful appearance. There is regular testing involved, every six months at my Endroconologist and it's somewhat expensive but worth it!!

free skin care · Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:11 am

I am late 40s, have an annual GYN apt next week and having perimenopausal symptoms.

On another board I frequent, a respected health writer indicates that current school of thought holds that Estrace (estradiol) and Prometrium, which are plant derived and match the hormones that we produce - are best described in perimenopause and not to wait until periods stop - to prevent bone loss and to relieve other symptoms.

Thoughts? experiences? updates to this thread?

Thanks, BF

free skin care · Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:08 am

Hi All

This is one subject I have alittle knowledge about.

I had a total hysterectomy about 6 years ago and was put on HRT right away, I too use the vivelle dot (estradiol).

I suffered from endometriosis at a young age and had my first surgery at 21. I went thru hell for many years, (I just turned 50).

To make a long story short, I have never felt better !!! Very Happy

I finally feel normal, no more ups and downs, no more crying at the drop of a hat, no more feeling like I must be crazy, I could go on and on...

If a doctor tells you it's all in your head, you need to find another doctor who understands a womans hormones.

free skin care · Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:11 pm

I posted part of this on another thread and I am putting it all here….I hope that by sharing this someone else may be helped.

I am 55 and had no menopause issues that I was aware of until recently. I now have been on bio identical hormones for two months. I am working with a compound pharmacy which has a counseling nurse that works with me and my doctor. Although I am new at this process I have read about it for years. I am currently in the process of tweaking my prescription to get things exactly right for me. I am fortunate to have this service available to me because there is so much misinformation every where you turn.

I had to attend a three hour lecture/training (free) session before they would allow me to work with this program. They want people knowledgeable about hormones so they can be a part of the team with your doctor and then nurse at the compounding pharmacy. I decided after the session to proceed further. I filled out pages of answers to questions about my health as it relates to hormones. The pharmacist and nurse said blood work is not as helpful with hormones and that saliva testing is better. There is more of an expense with the saliva testing they recommend so it is only used in the tougher cases. I was told that with answering all the questions and having three hours consult it should fine point the type of treatment that will be best for me. They have been doing this for 13 years and come highly recommended from other women and physicians in the area. So to answer your question blood work doesn't seem the best for hormone issues.

Once I went through the consultation and got the hormone treatment tweaked I had great results. I was having hot flashes constantly……10 to 15 upon rising. The day after I started taking estroil and progesterone my hot flashes stopped….that was almost three weeks ago. I have more energy than I have had in 15 years, and sleep way better. Once of the nicest things I have noticed is the skin on my hands has DRASTICALLY changed for the better. I am not doing anything different to my hands and first just started on progesterone….I started noticing the skin change after three weeks on progesterone. Then when the estroil was added the nice change has gotten better. This is what I am now taking estroil 0.05 emol cream vaginally and then progesterone 3% 1ml daily and biest 0.5 no more than ½ a ml daily. I am also taking DHEA 10 mg daily(start that tomorrow). The bottom line is I am feeling really good and my skin is really looking great….I had no idea what effect hormones….or lack of hormones would have on your body until I experienced it. Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:17 pm

Toby wrote:

The bottom line is I am feeling really good and my skin is really looking great….I had no idea what effect hormones….or lack of hormones would have on your body until I experienced it. Very Happy

Toby, do you think the hormones you are on could be the reason for the improvement you have seen in your facial skin and not necessarily from the AALS, or possibly a combination of the hormones and the LED?

free skin care · Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:23 pm

My face and hands have handled aging differently. My face looks lots younger than my hands and I have not done all the right things to take care of them I like I have my face. I have been using the light on my face for a year, before that other LED lights for two years. When I saw the difference in my hands I had been using just the progesterone for several weeks and I examined my hands and face. My face didn't have any noticeable change and yet my hands really did....but they were in the worse shape. When I noticed the change in my face it was a month later when I added the Lightstim serum to my light treatments...I saw the under eye dramatically toning up and losing the crepiness after the second treatment with the light and serum. So I think the under eye had more to do with the serum+light than even the light by itself. I am sure my over all skin is benefiting from the hormones but where I started seeing it was in my hands. So at this point I am thrilled about the loss of hot flashes and the side benefit of the skin looking more youthful. And I wouldn't dare give up the light and serum either...I am going to get greedy about holding on to what works Laughing

Also I need to add the pictures I posted of my forehead change with the wrinkles...now lack of them Very Happy

were taken back in Feb. after four months of intense light treatments...way before two months ago when I started the hormones.

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:54 am

Toby wrote:

And I wouldn't dare give up the light and serum either...I am going to get greedy about holding on to what works Laughing

Also I need to add the pictures I posted of my forehead change with the wrinkles...now lack of them Very Happy

were taken back in Feb. after four months of intense light treatments...way before two months ago when I started the hormones.

Well, I don't blame you for not giving the light up, if it is working for you so well!

I am confused on your comment about your pictures. I thought the photo you posted on the AALS thread was showing the improvement in your forehead after you had used the New AALS and the new serum, but it sounds like it was way before you started your trial with the New AALS/serum?

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:23 pm

Toby - thanks for that. I have no menopause symptoms yet at age 52 and I know you didn't either so I'm thinking I'll be following your footsteps. I am smaller boned like you too. I also have decided to use BIH when the time comes - have found a dr in the area and compounding pharmacies. They may not be as progressive as what you found so the info on the saliva testing may be a determining factor when I call there. I've heard good things though. Your experience validates my decision to go through on this plane. My mother really had very little problems with meno but I feel like (Suzanne Somers) I want to keep myself as youthful as I can.
Also agree with the value of LED therapy. Love it. I feel so youthful on the inside and want to keep that feeling on the outside.

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:48 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Toby wrote:

And I wouldn't dare give up the light and serum either...I am going to get greedy about holding on to what works Laughing

Also I need to add the pictures I posted of my forehead change with the wrinkles...now lack of them Very Happy

were taken back in Feb. after four months of intense light treatments...way before two months ago when I started the hormones.

Well, I don't blame you for not giving the light up, if it is working for you so well!

I am confused on your comment about your pictures. I thought the photo you posted on the AALS thread was showing the improvement in your forehead after you had used the New AALS and the new serum, but it sounds like it was way before you started your trial with the New AALS/serum?

Rileygirl,
As much information that has come forth recently it is understandable that it could be confusing. I posted the pictures of my forehead in the lightstim thread on page 74 and the dates of the last picture was Jan 2010(stated on the picture)...that was using the lightstim with green tea protocol. http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29297&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=1825
I restarted an intensive treatment session in Oct.2010 using the serum on the under eye area. That too is causing some major change especially under the eye area. My conclusion is that I have had succeess in both intense Lightstim treatments...first with green tea(several months treatment ending in Jan.2010)pics show this... the next with the serum on the eye area under eye area has plumped up and the crepiness is diminishing started the first of Oct. 2010. My thought is the serum is well worth adding to the treatment...it ramped it up even more than the green tea.
I apologize for getting things side tracked on this thread but wanted to provide clarity on the subject of the Lighstim since it was discussed here. Very Happy

Sis....A year ago I didn't have a clue that I would get hit like a ton of bricks with menopause at 55...but I did. All I can say is I am grateful for the information on the bio-identical threads here because it reminded me of information I had been exposed to earlier and set me on a great course of action. I am very appreciative of the experience of those that have gone before me and took the time to share about it.

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:12 pm

I consider myself in the very very lucky category....almost 17 years postmeno and aside from no monthly periods I have not had symptoms at all! Reading the following from an OB/GYN Josee I think I will pass on any hormones. Just my personal feelings after re-reading this.

Josee wrote:

Hello,
I don't use "bio-identical" hormones but I thought I'd chip in (since I feel quite strongly about the subject!).

"Bio-identical" is a marketing term really with no scientific support behind it and in fact the FDA has been warning compounding pharmacies over and over to stop using the term since it's misleading.

There is no conclusive evidence showing the safety of these compounds and in fact, there's nothing that points out to the fact that they would do anything different than conventional HRT.

Given the disastrous results of the WHI trial which revealed that women taking HRT had a higher incidence of stroke, heart attack and breast cancer, I would never, ever ever take any product containing any form of estrogen.

This is, btw, just my humble opinion!

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:29 pm

Toby wrote:

Rileygirl,
As much information that has come forth recently it is understandable that it could be confusing.

Thanks for understanding my confusion, Toby, and thanks for the explanation! Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:59 pm

Josee's comments actually reminded me of my doctor's position several years ago and that is why I was so surprised when she sent me to the lecture on bio-identical hormone therapy. As it turns out my doctor and her husband, who is also a doctor, have had been revisiting bio-identical hormone treatment in the last several years. Their findings have convinced them to refer their patients for bio-identical hormone therapy with menopausal issues.There are probably as many arguments on both sides of the issue, but for me and quite a few here it is an option that has merit.

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:09 pm

Toby wrote:

Josee's comments actually reminded me of my doctor's position several years ago and that is why I was so surprised when she sent me to the lecture on bio-identical hormone therapy. As it turns out my doctor and her husband, who is also a doctor, have had been revisiting bio-identical hormone treatment in the last several years. Their findings have convinced them to refer their patients for bio-identical hormone therapy with menopausal issues.There are probably as many arguments on both sides of the issue, but for me and quite a few here it is an option that has merit.

I agree if you suffer symptoms that I know can be severe and a real hindrance for many women it's a viable option.
For me personally not having any issues, it's not worth the risks involved. I believe it should be a personal choice made by a woman with the guidance of her doctor.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:33 am

This is some recommended reading for bio-identical hormone therapy.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:33 am

Toby I am an avid reader about anything I choose to consider taking and also have an OB/GYN that is wonderful and always ahead of the times. Not knife happy like many. C-section rate is 13% and deals with a lot of high risk woman as well. The national average at the time was 25% or 1 in 4!

Again speaking only for myself personally, with my high hematocrit and haemoglobin ie: iron hormones of any sort are a risk for me due to the possibility of blood clots. I know my body and couldn't stay on the pill or take prenatal vitamins containing iron.

So I am not in anyway attempting to scare others away but just speaking for myself.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:40 am

I could not take birth control pills or vitamins during pregnancy...I thought I was the true odd bird. I still have to be very careful with any supplements. But bio-identical hormones are by molecular structure are different than synthetic so that may be why I am doing well on them.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:54 am

Toby wrote:

I could not take birth control pills or vitamins during pregnancy...I thought I was the true odd bird. I still have to be very careful with any supplements. But bio-identical hormones are by molecular structure are different than synthetic so that may be why I am doing well on them.

You're not the odd bird, both my daughters inherited my high iron and my oldest went on the pill and ended up with 2 clots one in her thigh (very high up) and one in her calf! She spent 5 days in the hospital on Heparin and over a year on Coumadin. When she came home from the hospital 2 weeks bed rest, leg elevated and only allowed to get up to use the bathroom or shower!

I will check with my doctor, I am fine with vitamins as long as there is no added iron!

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:59 am

My issue with birth control was not an iron issue...they were so strong that they made me feel nuts!!!That was back in 70's. The vitamin issue is more with bothering my stomach. Never had any morning sickness, but if I took vitamins I had major gastic issues...still do so I try to make sure the green smoothies are covering my bases.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:13 am

Toby wrote:

My issue with birth control was not an iron issue...they were so strong that they made me feel nuts!!!That was back in 70's. The vitamin issue is more with bothering my stomach. Never had any morning sickness, but if I took vitamins I had major gastic issues...still do so I try to make sure the green smoothies are covering my bases.

I hated birth control pills because they made me feel just like I did when pregnant! 4 times morning sickness was a joke try 24 hours a day the entire time! No fun.

The hormone-high iron issue is my big concern for myself. I have naturally absurdly high levels that one nurse told me she had only ever seen in a 9 year old boy.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:01 pm

Bioidentical hormone therapy is endorsed by many western trained physicians. Not every physician is willing to consider alternative therapies of course.

What one chooses to do as a consumer depends upon ones comfort level. I have friends who took what they jokingly called Mare urine (premarin) prescribed by their Gynecologists to treat menopausal symptoms. No thanks.
I don't have menopause issues - my mother never did and neither did my aunt but if I feel the need to go in the direction of BI hormone therapy I'm with Toby. Fortunately we have some progressive thinkers in my area so that option is available.

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:40 am

This is a very good short video about bone loss during menopause...gives great information. Also the website has loads of information on it.
http://www.womentowomen.com/bonehealth/bones-menopause.aspx?

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:00 pm

I've used the Vivelle Dot (aka Estradot) and ProGest progesterone cream for several years. They are bioidentical and cheaper than the compounded versions which are the "gold standard" if you can afford it. My gyn recommended them because she's successfully used them for years herself as well as prescribing them to her patients. She used to prescribe conventional Big Pharma HRT, the kind that was proven by their own studies to be dangerous. She said she couldn't in good conscious continue prescribing it when she could see her patients suffering from its ill effects. She is open to alternative medicine, unlike most MDs, which is one reason I like her. Conventional HRT is made from horse estrogens. Maybe Sarah Jessica Parker takes it. Laughing

All Big Pharma sales reps are banned from her practice.

Read Suzanne Somers' book Ageless. I don't have her latest one so I don't know if it specifically talks about HRT, but Ageless is a good basic resource. Some people who have obviously never read the book think it's her opinion. All she did was interview a dozen or so anti-aging, gyn, endocrinologists and others who have successfully prescribed bioidenticals to their patients for decades. They sometimes disagree with each other. So read it and make up your own mind.

I was totally against HRT years ago before I knew anything about it so everyone needs to educate themselves so they don't take away our choices in the future. Big Pharma owns Congress and are very powerful.

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:03 pm

Toby wrote:

But bio-identical hormones are by molecular structure are different than synthetic so that may be why I am doing well on them.

That's exactly why they work. Your body "thinks" they are human hormones so you don't get the side effects most get with horse urine HRT. Of course, if you want to grow a pony tail... Laughing

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