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Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:41 pm  |
If you stop using Retin A, do the results reverse themselves? Is the collagen built dependent on continued use? I know that this is the case with some peptides, but are the results from Retin A permanent? (strictly in the sense that the skin won't revert to it's prior state, save for the natural aging process)
I'm trying to decide if I should continue using Retin A even though it is causing me a mask of hyperpigmentation because my skin is so reactive and hypersensitive right now that it hyperpigments even with the slightest bit of microscopic irritation. Even so, I'd like to see what Retin A can do for my skin if I use it consistently for the next 6 or so months because I like the smoothing and tightening results (albeit temporary) that I see just from using Retin A here and there. |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:15 pm |
Coconut have you been using a Rx retin-a? If so for how long and how often.
I could be wrong but I believe retin-a is temporary. I know it is the only clinically proven method to reduce wrinkles but I think if you stop using it the wrinkles will re-appear over time.
Rileygirl is our resident retin-a expert if you want to PM her.  |
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mid 40's, blonde, blue eyes, normal skin, DIY skin regime, AALS - biggest problem undereye - getting much better with AALS & DIY serums. |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:32 pm |
| Yeah you gotta keep using it to maintain results. That said you don't have to use every night for the rest of your life. Once you have the level of skin improvement desired then you can use it say 3 times a week. |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:37 pm |
| Alley wrote: |
Coconut have you been using a Rx retin-a? If so for how long and how often.
I could be wrong but I believe retin-a is temporary. I know it is the only clinically proven method to reduce wrinkles but I think if you stop using it the wrinkles will re-appear over time.
Rileygirl is our resident retin-a expert if you want to PM her. |
Thanks for the reply!
I wonder though if the wrinkles reappear over time simply due to the continuation of the natural aging process. I suppose it would depend on how quickly the wrinkles reappear, but I know some folks report that there is a quick reappearance of wrinkles with matrixyl and the likes when it is discontinued.
I've been using Retin A off and on since I was a teenager to treat acne, but only here and there; Perhaps once every few months I will use it if I'm having a bad breakout. I've been using it consistently though for the past 2 or so weeks and I'm liking the results (save for the pigmentation problem) but I don't want to endure the flushing irritation for so many months if the results are only going to be temporary. |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:51 pm |
I do not have pigmentation issues with retin-a but my skin gets red, flaky and generally looks pretty bad when I've taken time off from it and come back to it. That is common and it takes a while, at least a month for me, for your skin to adjust to daily or every second day usage.
I am wondering if the pigmentation is a side effect of the irritation and might go away once your skin adjusts?
Dee mentioned that once you have achieved the results you are looking for you can switch to maintenance which can be at little as 2x's a week depending on your skin. I am a huge fan of retin-a so I would suggest trying to stick with it. |
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mid 40's, blonde, blue eyes, normal skin, DIY skin regime, AALS - biggest problem undereye - getting much better with AALS & DIY serums. |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:30 pm |
| Sad to say but all things topically applied are temporary. Once you stop using whatever it is, your skin will slowly revert to how it was before. That could take some time, and most likely won't happen overnight, but you have to maintain any topical product for the results to stay! |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:27 pm |
To put bluntly, anything everything you use is TEMPORARY.
Your body and skin is living organ, it will never stop aging until the day....
if you stop exercise, you'll gain weight again. Does that mean exercise only gives you temporary results. Yes. Does that mean you should not bother with it in the first place. No. |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:36 pm |
I fully agree with rileygirl and pinkberry. Nothing you put on your skin will give permanent anti-aging results.
FDA trials suggest that to maintain the benefits of Retin-A, one can continue to use it for a lifetime. |
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Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:51 pm |
Well, I agree to an extent. Obviously the skin will continue to age, but that isn't what I'm trying to get at necessarily.
I suppose the essence of what I'm trying to understand is whether or not the collagen produced by Retin-A degrades any faster than it normally would due to ones normal aging skin once Retin-A is discontinued. I think it would have to do with the mechanism by which Retin A works. To analogize simply: if you start Retin A with skin that looks 50 and get great enough results that make you look 40. When you stop, does your skin go back to the 50 year old skin you had, or does it age from the 40 year old skin thereafter? What is the baseline once you stop? I hope I haven't convoluted things too much! hopefully someone will see what I'm trying to understand! |
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:49 pm |
From the Imminst forum, Fredrik says:
Question:
Is there any problem if one is uses a retinoid for a while and then stops? Are the benefits gained during the period of use more or less permanent in nature, or does you face "turn to stone" shortly after stopping treatment?
Answer:
No. There´s no problem when stopping a retinoid. The effects will wane off gradually, but the skin repair you´ve already made is there to stay until you start aging at pre-retinoid speed again. So your face won´t turn to stone, but your new fresh face will simply start to age again. So using a retinoid regularly will both treat and prevent aging skin.
You may find his comment in the Post 23 at
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18483&st=20 |
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Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:33 am |
| summer2004 wrote: |
From the Imminst forum, Fredrik says:
Question:
Is there any problem if one is uses a retinoid for a while and then stops? Are the benefits gained during the period of use more or less permanent in nature, or does you face "turn to stone" shortly after stopping treatment?
Answer:
No. There´s no problem when stopping a retinoid. The effects will wane off gradually, but the skin repair you´ve already made is there to stay until you start aging at pre-retinoid speed again. So your face won´t turn to stone, but your new fresh face will simply start to age again. So using a retinoid regularly will both treat and prevent aging skin.
You may find his comment in the Post 23 at
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18483&st=20 |
This is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks!! |
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Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:51 am |
I had been using retin-a (tretinoin) for four years to fight acne. My skin became better than it had been in years. Then I stopped for a year. Recently I have started again for I hated my skin! It where not exactely the wrinkels, but I got large pores, uneven skin and cracky skin. Now after three weeks of using tretinoin again, I already see improvements. Think I'm never going to quit tretinoin again  |
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Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:42 pm |
| Jouke wrote: |
| I had been using retin-a (tretinoin) for four years to fight acne. My skin became better than it had been in years. Then I stopped for a year. Recently I have started again for I hated my skin! It where not exactely the wrinkels, but I got large pores, uneven skin and cracky skin. Now after three weeks of using tretinoin again, I already see improvements. Think I'm never going to quit tretinoin again |
Hi Jouke,
Just curious, but why did you stop using retin a? Was your face clear at that point? Thanks! |
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50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:07 pm |
Well Kims, that's quite a different story.
On top of my head my hair grew very slowly, hardly at all, it just went shorter because the lengths that I won I lost again because it broke and I also lost a lot of hair everyday. So even though I was very careful with my hair, it was in a bad condition.
On EDS I read somebody wrote that tretinoin is family of Roaccutane (=iso tretinoin) and therefor can be bad for your body ánd your hair (side effect of roaccutane is hair loss)
That's why I decided to stop using tretinoin immediately. I was so afraid to get bald within some time.
Doctors say that it's just a topical and it has no side effects inside your body, but I just KNOW that everything you put on your skin goes into your blood, so.....
However after one year free of tretinoin, my hair hadn't improved, sad enough.
Or it has been damaged forever by the tretinoin forever, or the tretinoin has been of no influence. In both situations I didn't see any barrier to start with tretinoin again.
I am now trying minoxidil for my hair. Hope I have more luck with that.
But I am sooooo happy to be able to use my beloved tretinoin again!!!!!! |
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Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:33 pm |
Jouke,
I don't know your age but if you're over 40 you might consider having blood tests for hormone levels. My hair loss was attributed to hormone imbalance (plus a restrictive diet).
Just a thought...and off topic....sorry. |
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Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:38 pm |
Hi Jourke,
Thanks for sharing! I certainly hope that it isn't the tretinoin causing your hair loss. It's just so amazing how products can effect each of us so differently. |
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50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:46 pm |
Coconut - I'm glad you were able to find out your answer to your question. I would have also mentioned that, as I had a doctor provide that answer for me.
Retinoids like Retin A or Tazorac are topical Vitamin A products where isotretinoin is oral vitamin A. Tretinoin is also called vitamin A acid or retinoic acid.
The hair thinning you mention is only a temporary side effect of isotretinoin (Accutane) - a 10% one at that. Since it's only temporary and a small percentage, it's not *as* much to worry about(but might be if you don't have a lot of hair to begin with).
You mentioned that you have some sensitivity from using the Retin A. A great product to use along w/ RA is Copper Peptides from Skin Biology (EDS carries some of them). CPs can greatly reduce the flaking and redness from Retinoids and they work great together.
Skin Biology also has a product that would work great on your thinning hair - their Folligen Lotion . It can help strengthen the hair follicle and make it healthier. You can also use it w/ Rogain/Minoxidil. Sounds like a great 1-2 punch to me 
SB says this about female hair loss:
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| Most hair loss in women is normally due to scalp damage due to perms, coloring dyes, relaxers, using too much heat when drying hair, overuse of shampoos, tight buns or pony-tails, and overcutting (long hair is healthier). The chemical salts and dyes in eyebrow and eyelash make ups often produce a severe loss of eyebrows and eyelashes by age 40 in many women. Psychological stress or hormonal shifts such a menopausal changes or stopping the use of birth control pills can also cause temporary hair loss. |
Another thing you should try to reduce the irritation you're getting from Retin A is to use it just 3 times a week or so. You should also be using the weaker version - a .025% to start. After your skin adjsts, you can work your way up in strength or try applying every other day. Retin A works just fine used only a few times a week for most people. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:00 am |
| has any of you experienced any hair loss with tretinoin use? |
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Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:19 am |
With Retin A, I seem to recall that although in the first year of the studies it was used nightly, using it every other night found to deliver the same benefits without the iritation, but I haven't seen any studies suggesting that you can't cut back on your usage of it and maintain the results you have. So for example, lets say you use it nightly or every other night for a year or so, you might then try cutting back to only three times a week, then maybe twice a week, to maintain those results. I don't think you could or should cut it out completely, but its an interesting thought. I searched pubmed for studies and couldn't see any. Its definitely an interesting thought though!  |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:13 pm |
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
| With Retin A, I seem to recall that although in the first year of the studies it was used nightly, using it every other night found to deliver the same benefits without the iritation, but I haven't seen any studies suggesting that you can't cut back on your usage of it and maintain the results you have. So for example, lets say you use it nightly or every other night for a year or so, you might then try cutting back to only three times a week, then maybe twice a week, to maintain those results. I don't think you could or should cut it out completely, but its an interesting thought. I searched pubmed for studies and couldn't see any. Its definitely an interesting thought though! |
Here's a quick summary of some of the studies done on the longer term use of tretinoin:
| Quote: |
Studies involving tretinoin treatment for more than 6 months
The ability of long-term (more than 6 months) tretinoin treatment to maintain improvement in photoaging was first evaluated by Ellis and colleagues (1990) in a 22-month study carried out in 16 patients with photoaged skin. All the subjects used 0.1% tretinoin for the first 4 months. Thereafter, 3 patients continued this regimen, 8 were changed to alternate day treatment for the last 12 months, and the remaining used 0.05% tretinoin for 5 months and then reduced to alternate day application till the end of therapy. It was observed that the improvement of wrinkling continued up to the 10th month and was maintained thereafter. The stratum corneum and epidermal thickness returned to the normal during the course of treatment. In another trial, Green and colleagues (1993) studied the effect of 0.05% tretinoin emollient cream applied daily for 12 months. Tretinoin treatment showed significant improvement in the clinical signs of photoaging. However, the major degree of changes occurred after 6 months and later on they tended to remain stable as observed in the earlier study. Extension of the study for 6 more months with either weekly or thrice weekly application showed further improvement in overall signs of photoaging.
Thereafter, Bhawan and colleagues (1995) evaluated the changes occurring at the dermal level in Caucasian skin after daily application of 0.05% tretinoin cream for a period of 12 months. Interestingly, no significant changes were observed at 6 months in the papillary dermis in the tretinoin-treated group, which supported the observation made in the initial short-term studies. However, after 12 months, formation of new collagen fibers as well as reduction in nodularly degenerated microfibrillar material was observed in the tretinoin-treated group. This study indicated that for appreciable dermal level improvement, more than 6 months of tretinoin therapy is required. This also provided an explanation why remarkable changes were observed only after 6 months of tretinoin treatment in the study carried out by Green and colleagues (1993). Olsen and colleagues (1997a) evaluated the histological and clinical changes occurring in 298 patients after once daily application of either 0.05% or 0.01% tretinoin emollient cream for a duration of 1 year. Significant improvement in histological and clinical markers was observed in both the 0.05% and the 0.01% tretinoin group as compared with vehicle. In another study, Oslen and colleagues (1997b) evaluated the 6 month effect of once weekly or thrice weekly 0.05% tretinoin emollient or no treatment in 126 individuals who had completed 48 months of 0.05% once daily tretinoin therapy. Thrice weekly tretinoin treatment appeared to be more effective in improving the fine wrinkles than once weekly therapy whereas discontinuation of the therapy resulted in the reversal of beneficial effects to some extent.
Bhawan and colleagues (1996) studied the effect of long-term use (4 years) of tretinoin emollient cream in 27 patients treated with either 0.05% or 0.01% of tretinoin for the first 18 months, followed by 15-month treatment with 0.01% tretinoin and finally 19-month daily treatment with either 0.025% or 0.05% tretinoin. Histological studies indicated that the stratum corneum became compact in the first 3 to 6 months whereas it returned to normal (basket weave pattern) in 12–24 months and remained normal until the end of the therapy. Likewise, granular layer thickness and epidermal thickness were increased in the first 3–6 months, returned to normal in 12–24 months and remained normal until cessation of the therapy. In contrast, epidermal mucin continued to increase and melanin continued to decrease throughout tretinoin treatment. The changes in these 2 components clearly correlated with the observed clinical changes. |
While the studies noted may seen old and somewhat dated, they are the basis for the currently recommended regime (tretinoin treatment can be reduced to 2-3 nightly applications after one year of continuous use).
Tretinoin use results in structural permanent changes in the skin; it is classified as a drug for this reason (unlike cosmetic ingredients). If you completely stop using Retin-A, your skin will not regress to a previous state. But you will continue to age as time passes, so your skin will also age over time. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:36 pm |
Great question, Coconut...I too used to wonder about it..
So the conclusion is that...even if someone uses retin a for , say, only a year...there is some long term gain still! |
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32, medium skin, living in Hong Kong, have PCOS(currently trying naturopathy), moderate hormonal acne along jawline |
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