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Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:35 pm  |
Hi guys. I really, really want to try this awesome-looking recipe for a homemade Vitamin C serum... http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=474653#474653
Here's where I'm confused, though: Owndoc says the following:
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Vitamin C is not fat-soluble so before you apply it you must remove
oils from your skin, otherwise the vit. C will not be able to penetrate your skin through the oily layer. |
So, if that's true, would the jojoba and other oils render the Vit. C useless, essentially blocking it from being absorbed by the skin?
Can someone shed some light on this please? |
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Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:21 am |
I'm no expert but the following little write up about Vitamin C and E is interesting. Apparently Vit E helps the stability of C from Oxidation. The article is http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/vitamin-c-vitamin-e-ferulic-acid.html
Personally when it comes to oils, in general, I like to layer it as my last product after everything has been absorbed. I actually feel oils after serums help in product penetration. But then again it depends on the oils.
I'm sure others can shed more light on the matter. |
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Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:14 am |
| Just wanted to add do you, as I haven't read that on owndoc. But putting oils separately or layering before Vitamin C I don't do. Is this what you mean or that there is oils in the DIY C serum? My original link is for the latter. But for the former, when layering, I always put oils last unless you want to buff a product, as water based products may not penetrate. So that would make sense. |
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Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:46 am |
Vitamin C in the form of L-Ascorbic Acid should be applied to freshly cleansed skin. Then wait a little while to let the pH of the skin return to normal before layering other products on top. Oils should always be applied last as oils are occlusive.
There is a form of Vitamin C which is oil soluble if you want to make a DIY Vitamin C Oil. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:08 pm |
dionie, I was referring to a Vit C serum with oils in it as well. I just wasn't sure if the skin would be able to absorb the Vit C (as L-AA) if, like owndoc said, you need to remove any oils before using a Vit C serum made with L-AA. BTW, the quoted text from owndoc appears in their instructions for the derma roller.
I still think I'm a little confused about this, but I don't know how else to phrase my question. I guess the answer comes from not layering? Anyone else have any ideas?  |
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Wed May 01, 2013 8:25 pm |
This may be of interest.
http://www.complex31.com/articles/JCD-T2-Asc-Immi.PDF
It's a study done on LAA in an oil/wax mix and a silicone/oil/wax mix.
"Both formulations tested in this study resulted in increased expression of collagen types I and III and cytokeratin in ex Viso human skin."
Granted, this is a mix with no water, but it shows that LAA in oil can be effective. |
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Thu May 02, 2013 10:27 am |
I wonder about this topic too as I use both Obagi C Clarifying Serum, which is in an oily base, and Skinceuticals C & E Ferulic.
The Skinceuticals seems to be more potent (skin is brighter) and more drying, which I attribute to the fact that the Obagi C is in an oil that buffers the Vit C from being effective and also gives some hydration.
I am at the end of both bottles and am wondering if should repurchase the Obagi C Clarifying Serum again or is it a waste of money. I use it when travelling so I don't have to wait to layer Vit C serum and then hydroquinone. I do know the Obagi serum does something as it made my skin peel alot at first when using it in a daily basis (was not on NuDerm then so that wasn't causing the peeling).
Another issue is regarding Vit C in moisturizers - does the oil component inhibit absorption of the vit c?
I understand this is a DIY forum but I have the same basic question as ellaelise. Thanks in advance! |
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Thu May 02, 2013 8:19 pm |
Yes I understand that skincare science can be quite confusing out there, especially when one company advocates one thing and another doesn't.
The way I look at it is that LAA Vit C can be a little unstable when not formulated correctly. S, as in my original link, it talks about requiring VIt E oil in Vit C serums for stability issues. This form of Vit C oxidizes so easily, so an oxidised form of Vit C serum has many more issues than a minute amount of oil in a formulation. I know what I would rather have.These skincare companies need to formulate products so they keep stable. Even in DIY people prefer to make say a bottle at a time.
When in doubt you could do what I do, and is so much cheaper and gets rid of the oil factor.
I Put a small scoop of LAA powder in my palm (you can buy just powder). Put a couple pumps of my non oil antioxidant serum OR aloe Vera serum in there too, mix by rubbing my palms together, and spread over my face. It's a bit grittier and more acidic this way, but my skin can handle it. I love it.
Then once my serum has absorbed and PH settles back I can layer with other products.
I hope that helps and there are other ways of maximising product use. You can even make enough Vit C LAA serum without oil every couple of days too and keep in the fridge.
All works well |
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Thu May 02, 2013 10:29 pm |
| dionie wrote: |
When in doubt you could do what I do, and is so much cheaper and gets rid of the oil factor.
I Put a small scoop of LAA powder in my palm (you can buy just powder). Put a couple pumps of my non oil antioxidant serum OR aloe Vera serum in there too, mix by rubbing my palms together, and spread over my face. It's a bit grittier and more acidic this way, but my skin can handle it. I love it.
Then once my serum has absorbed and PH settles back I can layer with other products.
I hope that helps and there are other ways of maximising product use. You can even make enough Vit C LAA serum without oil every couple of days too and keep in the fridge.
All works well |
Hi dionie - How do you know that the vit c is at full efficacy when you DYI? This is why I am hesitant to make it myself as I read that vit c serums are complicated because of oxidation, PH, and other issues that may inhibit absorption. I have tried a few and find that the Skinceuticals works much better.
Thanks! |
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Fri May 03, 2013 2:52 am |
| denisiel wrote: |
| dionie wrote: |
When in doubt you could do what I do, and is so much cheaper and gets rid of the oil factor.
I Put a small scoop of LAA powder in my palm (you can buy just powder). Put a couple pumps of my non oil antioxidant serum OR aloe Vera serum in there too, mix by rubbing my palms together, and spread over my face. It's a bit grittier and more acidic this way, but my skin can handle it. I love it.
Then once my serum has absorbed and PH settles back I can layer with other products.
I hope that helps and there are other ways of maximising product use. You can even make enough Vit C LAA serum without oil every couple of days too and keep in the fridge.
All works well |
Hi dionie - How do you know that the vit c is at full efficacy when you DYI? This is why I am hesitant to make it myself as I read that vit c serums are complicated because of oxidation, PH, and other issues that may inhibit absorption. I have tried a few and find that the Skinceuticals works much better.
Thanks! |
I actually found the opposite. Skinceuticals did nothing for me and I was very weary of the pale yellow colour which could have meant the serum had already oxidised. I've actually researched and asked about how to use the powder and find that it really works for me. The Ph is fine, it's pure and fresh. I find making DIY batches tricky and that's why I don't DIY it. I agree you really need to get the formula right, but most recipes on EDS are based on products like Skinceuitcal formulas anyway. So fresher is definitely better,if you measure and mix correctly . But I'm lazy and not bothered so I don't do this. Also just storing the powder and mixing as I use/ need it means its always fresh and my skin knows when the PH is too low or high afterwards. next time i adjust it. |
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Fri May 03, 2013 3:11 am |
| I just mix a tiny scoop of micronised LAA powder with HA every day. Takes five seconds to mix - and I know it's fresh. Why more people don't do this, I don't know. Pre-mixing is counter-productive IMO! |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri May 03, 2013 3:26 am |
Thanks dionie & Keliu. This leads me to my next question re vit c application. Does anyone know why some serums must be allowed to dry completely? For example, I've read that Skinceuticals should be left to absorb for up to 20 minutes and that applying anything over it will inactivate the serum (because of the introduction of water, I am not sure).
But then I also see many people spritzing their skin before applying LAA vit c serums or they DIY by mixing with a water based substance.
So after toning, I wait 10 minutes to have totally dry skin and then another 10 or 20 minutes for the vit c serum to absorb. Is this correct - what do other people do? |
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Fri May 03, 2013 3:46 am |
| denisiel wrote: |
Thanks dionie & Keliu. This leads me to my next question re vit c application. Does anyone know why some serums must be allowed to dry completely? For example, I've read that Skinceuticals should be left to absorb for up to 20 minutes and that applying anything over it will inactivate the serum (because of the introduction of water, I am not sure).
But then I also see many people spritzing their skin before applying LAA vit c serums or they DIY by mixing with a water based substance.
So after toning, I wait 10 minutes to have totally dry skin and then another 10 or 20 minutes for the vit c serum to absorb. Is this correct - what do other people do? |
The wait period is not for the product to absorb - it's for the pH of the skin to normalise. So you should wait ten minutes or so before applying the rest of your products.
Also, manufacturers often add yellow colouring to their C serums to disguise the fact that they might have oxidised. I know for a fact that Ultraceuticals do this. The yellow colouring is listed as an ingredient on the bottle. I wrote to them and asked why they do this - they wrote back but didn't give a satisfactory explanation - they just said that they could guarantee that their serum was fresh! But that still begs the question, why the yellow colouring? |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri May 03, 2013 4:14 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
The wait period is not for the product to absorb - it's for the pH of the skin to normalise. So you should wait ten minutes or so before applying the rest of your products.
Also, manufacturers often add yellow colouring to their C serums to disguise the fact that they might have oxidised. I know for a fact that Ultraceuticals do this. The yellow colouring is listed as an ingredient on the bottle. I wrote to them and asked why they do this - they wrote back but didn't give a satisfactory explanation - they just said that they could guarantee that their serum was fresh! But that still begs the question, why the yellow colouring? |
I see - so I can apply the Skinceuticals on my slightly damp face after toner (which I use to ph balance after cleansing)?
I know what you mean re the yellow color. What I noticed is that if I kept the large bottle of Skinceuticals in the fridge and just decanted a small amount into a dropper every two weeks, it stayed relatively colorless. But I once ordered sample sizes for traveling and they oxidized within a week of opening. I emailed the company and they said it was still effective but I don't believe it.
I opened the Obagi C Clarifying Serum, used it a few times, and put in the fridge for nine months. I was surprised to see it remained colorless - don't know if that is because it is in an oil base or is a really good formulation or is so bad that the Vit C doesn't even work.... |
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Fri May 03, 2013 4:25 am |
| Oil based Vitamin C is supposed to be much more stable than LAA. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri May 03, 2013 4:36 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Oil based Vitamin C is supposed to be much more stable than LAA. |
But the Obagi has LAA:
Hydroquinone 4%, Propylene Glycol, Propylene Carbonate, L-Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Purified Water and Sodium Lauryl Sulfate |
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Fri May 03, 2013 4:52 am |
| denisiel wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Oil based Vitamin C is supposed to be much more stable than LAA. |
But the Obagi has LAA:
Hydroquinone 4%, Propylene Glycol, Propylene Carbonate, L-Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Purified Water and Sodium Lauryl Sulfate |
Ok, don't understand that because LAA is only soluble in water. Oil serums are usually made with Oil Soluble C (sorry, forget it's proper name). But maybe the Obagi uses an emulsifier. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri May 03, 2013 5:32 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| I just mix a tiny scoop of micronised LAA powder with HA every day. Takes five seconds to mix - and I know it's fresh. Why more people don't do this, I don't know. Pre-mixing is counter-productive IMO! |
I sooo agree. I must give you credit for me doing this. I'm pretty sure you gave me the idea to mix it with my aloe vera. Anything else now just seems second best.  |
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Fri May 03, 2013 5:47 am |
| dionie wrote: |
I sooo agree. I must give you credit for me doing this. I'm pretty sure you gave me the idea to mix it with my aloe vera. Anything else now just seems second best. |
Yep! By far the easiest solution. I moved on to HA, but Aloe Vera is excellent too. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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