Ideal dilution for botox ?
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free skin care · Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:50 am

Hi everyone,

does anyone know what the dilution for botox would be to prevent it spreading to other muscles? - or is this down to technique only ?I have put off having it done again for some time now, because my brow always drops, and my cheeks seem to sag when it is put in the crows feet. I have since learned that this could be down to greedy derms diluting it too much, so I want to let them know what I find acceptable with regard to the strength of the solution. I hate the fact I can't get botox for this reason - but the first time I got it, it was fine. I would rather be botox resistant than suffer the drooping issues that I do,

many thanks

Jackie xx

free skin care · Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:17 am

Jackie284 wrote:

Hi everyone,

does anyone know what the dilution for botox would be to prevent it spreading to other muscles? - or is this down to technique only ?I have put off having it done again for some time now, because my brow always drops, and my cheeks seem to sag when it is put in the crows feet. I have since learned that this could be down to greedy derms diluting it too much, so I want to let them know what I find acceptable with regard to the strength of the solution. I hate the fact I can't get botox for this reason - but the first time I got it, it was fine. I would rather be botox resistant than suffer the drooping issues that I do,

many thanks

Jackie xx

Hi jackie,

I have recently been studying a lot about this. In "most cases" the ideal dilution is 100 units of saline to 100 units botox ie. the 100 unit syringe is filled with saline and used to dilute a 100 units botox.

This is recommened by the top injectors for most areas esp bw brows and crows feet where we so want to avoid botox drift. In other areas (like treating masseter muscle etc) higher dilution is better. There are also other ways to avoid and reduce drift. Using the muscle the has been injected repeatedly following injection has been shown to increase uptake and reduce drift. Pressure under the brow following injection, staying upright, etc.

It would seem that the pressure on injectors to reduce their price per unit has led to this problem of over dilution.

You may wish to check out the following board which is a board for self injecting but may offer some good detailed further information regarding the science and techniques if you are interested.

http://skindeepchat.forumotion.net/forum.htm

cheers

free skin care · Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:50 am

thanks snowqueen, that's really helpful.

I might have a word with them first, to at least make them aware that I know these things - lol, - but then they could tell me anything couldn't they ?

The problems with the sagging cheeks, funnily enough, started after I had the masseters injected to help with TMJ. Looking back, this must have really drifted, because my cheek pad basically sagged down and forward, which created a jowl into the bargain! I left it for about 2 yrs, then had the crows feet done by someone else. Within a couple of days I was finding it hard to smile fully, then the cheeks sagged again. This was about 8 years ago, and I'm just terrified this will happen again. This has also left a gauntness under the cheekbone (infront of the ear) that I cannot ged rid of,

sorry for rambling - lol

Jackie xx

free skin care · Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:40 am

Jackie284 wrote:

I left it for about 2 yrs, then had the crows feet done by someone else. Within a couple of days I was finding it hard to smile fully, then the cheeks sagged again. This was about 8 years ago, and I'm just terrified this will happen again. This has also left a gauntness under the cheekbone (infront of the ear) that I cannot ged rid of,

This should have DEFINITELY not happened. Whoever did it had a horrible technique.

free skin care · Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:55 am

thanks for replying Josee,

do you think the dilution in the crows feet has been a bit high then?

Jackie xx

free skin care · Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:42 am

Jackie284 wrote:

thanks for replying Josee,

do you think the dilution in the crows feet has been a bit high then?

Jackie xx

There are a lot of factors that affect diffusion. Some of them are:

a. Product: There are 2 products currently available for crow's feet: Botox and Dysport. Dysport diffuses more in general

b. Site of injection: There are different sites within a muscle where one can inject the botox. Some sites have less side effects than others. The injector should be very familiar with anatomy and the current literature as to which site is the best

c. Dilution: the more diluted, the more volume injected, the more possible diffusion

d. Total units: the more units, the more diffusion. This is one should usually start with the minimum dose the first time one is injected and then adjust in subsequent doses. It's better to start small and adjust than start big and then have side effects

e. Number of injection sites: the more injections in one muscle (at one sitting) the more diffusion

f. Needle gauge: the thicker the needle, the more diffusion

g. Traumatic injection: usually when one starts injecting botox, there is more chances of doing a traumatic injection. Causing trauma (you notice e.g. a bruise after the injection) causes more diffusion

h. Depth of injection

There are even more factors but these are among the most importants. So a lot of things, including dilution, could have gone wrong.

I hope this helped!
All the best,
Josee

free skin care · Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:56 am

thanks Josee,

I'm going to have to really explain this to the derm, and the issues I have. I also find some clinics maintain that Dysport is the same as botox, and some get a bit snarky if you question their techniques too much,

Jackie xx

free skin care · Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:40 am

Does anyone know a Canadian supplier? I am afraid it will not get through customs otherwise. Please pm me if you know any, I would not like to make public their name.

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