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Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:27 am  |
[Moderator: This discussion has been split from the Ageless Secret thread]
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Don't forget that Joella also sells those Osmosis "Harmonized" waters, including:
- Breathe Harmonized Water (Improves breathing; Assists to open airway; Reduces sensitivity to allergens)
- Cramp-Free HW (Reduces menstrual cycle symptoms; Lower's the body's pain awareness; Provides relief from discomfort)
- Hormone Balance HW (Reduces menopausal symptoms; Normalizes hormone imbalances; Helps with irregular menstruation)
- Neutralize HW (Reduces effects of acidity; Improves digestive concerns related to acidity; Alkalinizing effect on circulation)
- Organ Protection HW (Improves the function of all organs; Balances thyroid, stomach, spleen, kidneys, pancreas, adrenals and liver)
- Rejuvenate Mind and Body (Improves muscle development; Enhances mental activity; Rejuvenates cells)
- Women's Hair and Nail (Rejuvenates hair follicles; Reduces hair loss; Strengthens nails)
- UV Protection Harmonized Water (Neutralizes UV radiation; Allows for increased sun exposure (30x more than normal); Enhances tanning effect from the sun)
Achieve UV 30 protection with our innovative new technology that isolates out the precise frequencies needed to protect you from UV rays. Our new Harmonized Water with UV Protection offers UV 30 protection with increased tanning response and is chemical free. Check out these great success stories!
"I was thrilled to hear about the UV water and tested it on my son who had a sport camp every day for a week. The temperature that week was ranging from 98 to 102 degrees. When he came home and his skin was neither red nor burnt. My son told me: “the water really works!” No need to apply sunscreen."
-Caroline
"Harmonized UV Water is a fantastic answer to sun protection living in New Zealand. Kiwi’s are under constant attack from harsh sun because of the depleted O-Zone layer affecting New Zealand.
Determined to put this water to the test I drank a cap full 1-hour before venturing out. The first thing I noticed was that I never experienced feeling the sting and bite from the sun that I would normally feel. After 3 hours there was a very slight demarcation line from where skin had been exposed, which was not red or pink but to my delight a slight tan did exist.
Harmonized Water is like a second skin of protection, which is healthy and natural. I love it!
- Kay, New Zealand
Directions
Take 2ml every 4 hours while in the sun (preferably with 2+ ounces of water). Wait 1 hour before exposure to the sun. Monitor sun exposure carefully. Take second dose if still in sun 3 hours after first dose. Sweat or salt water will negate frequencies until rinsed off. For extended intense exercise or exposure to salt water, use alternate protection after 30-40 minutes.
I gave up on JoElla and Osmosis a long time ago.
http://www.karinherzog-jmilan.com/search.asp?keyword=harmonized |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Thu May 10, 2012 11:14 am |
Hello everyone,
I did not pay attention to the dates to know how late I am to the party but the thread is worthy of comment from me regardless. I can totally appreciate anyone's skepticism regarding any of the effects we have seen from Harmonized Water. We are not claiming to have come up with a science that is currently justifiable by the research that has been performed to date. We are telling you that this is a new way of treating the body using a new way of imprinting radio frequencies on the molecules of water. Again, you can call it quackery because it is something that you are not familiar with, but time will reveal that this is simply a new method for improving the body in different ways.
Everything I have ever launched has come with some pretty strong claims. You may note, if you follow us at all, that we have never retracted one of those claims. This is in stark contrast to the many laser companies who come out of the gate with "scientifically proven" claims only to find in 1-5 years that the "scientific research" was misleading or wrong. The classic example is IPL and its affects on wrinkles.
I'm all for research. It will be forthcoming. However, please know that the entire medical industry is full of research that was manipulated and/or misrepresented by BIG PHARMA in order to get approval. PLEASE see the 60 Minutes expose on antidepressants, that is occurring in virtually every drug category, I promise you.
That is not my fight so I will move on.
Clearly this thread is full of people that, for whatever reason, are not fans of mine. I am confident that in time the massive successes reported by our end-users will sway public opinion on the waters, supplements and the skincare...and maybe even some of you. I would ask you to consider trying some of these products that you reject from a philosophic perspective before writing them off or any of my resellers. Joella does trust my opinion but she also does her own analysis before giving her support. I think your opinions would be more powerful if you actually tried what she was recommending and then responded by saying that your experience differs from hers.
As for UV Water specifically, this one is your opportunity to debunk my position. First, think about what you are suggesting, that I would jeopardize my successful skincare company by selling a "bogus" water for $12 whsl so that I can secretly get you to go out and get a sunburn. Why would I ever want to convince you to go out and get burned? The reality is that virtually everyone is getting badly damaged by the sun right now because they are using chemical UVB sunscreens that inhibit the "skin's warning sign" that you have received too much sun, this warning sign is the redness and pain we associate with a sunburn. Research showed that people who were exposed to the sun for 10 minutes had twice as much inflammation (an hour later) when they used chemical sunscreens as opposed to no sun protection. Another issue that needs to be covered is that there is a huge issue with "sun-sensitizing" medication. Do your own research, 100's of popular drugs, including ibuprofen and birth control cause "sun-senstivity". My view of "s-s" is that it is a dramatic increase in photo-aging because these medications are altering our skin's ability to heal the damage. PLEASE evaluate what supplements and medications you are on. Now UV Water does not hide the sunburn response so people on these medications may not be able to sustain much exposure. If you are not getting red on the chemical sunscreen it does not mean that you are not sustaining tremendous damage. With UV WAter We have 100's of testimonials on the effectiveness of the water. While the skeptics say that our results are all placebo, please tell me how we get placebo to protect them from the sun?
Again, there are several places in the science of Harmonized Water where you could say "that has never been done before", I acknowledge that. I am simply saying that I would have abandoned that company long ago if we were not getting a 90% success rate and I would never have launched UV Water if it didn't work on almost everyone.
Finally, take a look at our customers and their feedback on our products. We get outstanding results. We reverse aging. We treat skin conditions that most people have no solution for. We just launched a permanent treatment for age spots and melasma that will dramatically change this industry. The scientific research is not there yet, it will be...but we guarantee our results.
Most skincare companies are claiming "anti-aging" and year over year your skin is getting older. That is not happening with Osmosis so please consider that our philosophy and products may very well be as good as we claim.
I welcome your feedback. Sorry for the long message  |
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Thu May 10, 2012 11:43 am |
You might want to read this thread?
Ageless Secret Gold. Energized! 3 ingredients.Wow!
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=39478
While we did discuss the many waters that are supposed to cure all your ills, this is a product to spray away your wrinkles at $60. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu May 10, 2012 11:48 am |
Hi,
It is 98 pages long. What am I looking for? Is there feedback on HW or is it about ASG? Please let me know
Thanks |
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Thu May 10, 2012 1:09 pm |
| Ben Johnson, MD wrote: |
Hi,
It is 98 pages long. What am I looking for? Is there feedback on HW or is it about ASG? Please let me know
Thanks |
Hello Dr Johnson. I'm not sure why you ended up on this thread about Endless Secret. As far as I can tell, you are not associated with that at all. But you do have a product called harmonized water. I would be delighted to talk to you about that.
I am going to ask the moderators to move this to it's own thread though, in order to reduce confusion. Maybe call it: "Dr Johnson here to talk about harmonized water". I'll start the questioning in a moment. |
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Thu May 10, 2012 1:20 pm |
Hello again Dr. Johnson. You just made a fan of me on one key issue: you showed up! I am impressed that you would agree to enter a debate on this product and the science underlying it. I respect any scientist willing to publicly defend his position. Though I am obviously skeptical at the start here, I promise to listen and am willing to be moved by a good argument based on well-established facts and good scientific logic. Welcome, and let the debate begin.
My background is clinical medicine, metabolism, and physiology/cell biology. While not a nuclear physicist or chemist, I know a fair amount about radio waves. I helped to found a company that has reinvented precision radiolocation (www.locata.com) which is all about the synchronization of radio waves to allow precise positioning. We can pull radio waves with great precision. Not to mention measure location in mm.
If you will indulge me, can we start with an examination of the underlying science (physics & chemistry) before moving on to clinical effects. As I teach here and at BFT, it helps a lot to establish a clear foundation for understanding biochemical effects. If something defies all known science facts and makes no sense physiologically, acceptance is going to be a tough hill to climb no matter what clinical data is used to support. At some point we can discuss why that is.
Here is the definition of harmonized water from the Osmosis Pur website:
What is "Harmonized Water"?
Harmonized water is a combination of waters that contain different vibrational frequencies. Unlike structured water, which addresses the tendency of water molecules to cluster together, harmonized water describes the frequencies that water carries in its proton/electron outer shell. Water has the ability to carry “frequency messages” for extended periods of time and we have found that some of these messages harmonize internal imbalances in our body.
Now we know that protons within water molecules (each composed of two hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom to make H20 ) can be excited by external energy to vibrate, and that the frequency of that vibration can be detected. Indeed, that is the basis magnetic imaging. However, we also know that the vibrations cease within milliseconds of the removal of the very high energy from those very powerful magnets. When that happens, the protons return to their “relaxed” state, where they started. The difference between excited and relaxed states is what helps create the images of MRI.
But in order for the statement harmonized water describes the frequencies that water carries in its proton/electron outer shell to be true, one would have to assume that the water (not under an MRI magnet) was emitting radio frequency energy. But without a very powerful energy source to “excite” water, it doesn’t have that capability. Water at rest is very quiet. Which is good, otherwise the oceans and lakes would provide so much noise that radio waves all over the planet would be made useless.
Radio waves are waves of energy (excited electrons). Water at rest is about the most inert chemical known. If it were emitting energy, that energy would have to be conserved (basic law of physics). Which means the water would have to give up its potential energy, which is to say its chemical bonds. The result of that is a hydrogen bomb. it requires a whole lot of external energy to make one of those go off.
So, as you can see, I am having problems with the idea of water emitting radio frequencies from its outer shell in the absence of simultaneous external energy, and lots of it. Basic problem of physics and chemistry. If you can help me to understand this part, we could then move on to how these messages harmonize internal imbalances in our body. And other statements like the reality is that every cell in your body (and everything in nature) has its own unique frequency, very much like a fingerprint. Again, excuse the skepticism, but I am surprised that as a physician and scientist I have never heard of this. It would be quite marvelous if it’s true, because I have the equipment to measure the tiniest of radio waves, and would love to be able to do things like track cells that leave one spot and migrate to another. Which reminds me, could you send me some harmonized water so I can test it? Which frequencies should I be looking for.
I thank you again (as I am sure others here do as well) for your willingness to answer questions and enter into a collegial debate. Here is your opportunity to educate a discerning audience. |
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Thu May 10, 2012 3:20 pm |
 the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go  |
_________________
Too numerous to mention! |
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Thu May 10, 2012 3:36 pm |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go |
Dr. Johnson answered Dr. J on the other thread. |
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Thu May 10, 2012 3:44 pm |
| Okay....maybe I'm really dumb, but I can't find his post anywhere??!! |
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Thu May 10, 2012 3:44 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go |
Dr. Johnson answered Dr. J on the other thread. |
OMG,I'm so confused  ,thanks Riley. |
_________________
Too numerous to mention! |
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Thu May 10, 2012 3:49 pm |
Sorry, should have provided the link and thanks to DM for doing so. Who is on first???  |
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Thu May 10, 2012 3:53 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Sorry, should have provided the link and thanks to DM for doing so. Who is on first??? |
LOL. What's on second?
My sides are splitting from laughing! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu May 10, 2012 3:58 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go |
Dr. Johnson answered Dr. J on the other thread. |
I am not seeing a response from Dr. Johnson, do you know where it is? |
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Thu May 10, 2012 4:01 pm |
| jom wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go |
Dr. Johnson answered Dr. J on the other thread. |
I am not seeing a response from Dr. Johnson, do you know where it is? |
I can't find it. Maybe I can track its radio frequency signature. Hang on. |
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Thu May 10, 2012 4:02 pm |
| jom wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go |
Dr. Johnson answered Dr. J on the other thread. |
I am not seeing a response from Dr. Johnson, do you know where it is? |
It disappeared. It was a pretty long reply, and he offered to send some product to Dr. J. Nothing worthy of deleting though.
FYI... He asked Dr. J to pm him with a physical address so that Dr. J could test the water. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu May 10, 2012 4:04 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go |
Dr. Johnson answered Dr. J on the other thread. |
I am not seeing a response from Dr. Johnson, do you know where it is? |
I can't find it. Maybe I can track its radio frequency signature. Hang on. |
Nope. It has disappeared. disappeared.Maybe some "Dark Matter" swallowed it <sigh> |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Thu May 10, 2012 4:05 pm |
| Wow! Look at the anticipation. Sorry all, Dr Johnson's reply was inadvertently posted in the wrong thread and so I have pm'd him asking that he re-post it here which I am sure he will. Please be patient. Thank you. |
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Thu May 10, 2012 4:08 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| the suspense is killing me! Dr. Ben Johnson? Your turn...where'd he go |
Dr. Johnson answered Dr. J on the other thread. |
I am not seeing a response from Dr. Johnson, do you know where it is? |
I can't find it. Maybe I can track its radio frequency signature. Hang on. |
Nope. It has disappeared.Maybe some "Dark Matter" swallowed it. <sigh> |
Oh well, Dr. J I hope you PM him with your address so you can "test the water" and let us know what you think! |
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Thu May 10, 2012 4:09 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
| Wow! Look at the anticipation. Sorry all, Dr Johnson's reply was inadvertently posted in the wrong thread and so I have pm'd him asking that he re-post it here which I am sure he will. Please be patient. Thank you. |
Not since the infamous Scopes Trial has a scientific debate captured so much public attention.
(somebody wake me when it reappears). |
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Thu May 10, 2012 5:10 pm |
Hi DrJ,
Yes, I appreciate the confusion here. I cannot give you specifics on the actual process we use to imprint the radio frequencies on the water (as it is proprietary) but I can explain my view of how it works. Please understand that I do not profess to be an expert in molecular physics or even frequency medicine. I am a general practice physician who took a remarkable technology and, utilizing the research and insight of others along with my own insight, created the formulas for the Harmonized Water products.
My understanding of what is occurring at the molecular level of water is that the frequencies are being imprinted by a radio-frequency generator (and other devices) which result in the water acting as a carrier without any change to the chemical obonds themselves and without an ongoing excited state. While the H2O molecule itself gets excited in the process, I would agree that it recalibrates in milliseconds. However, it is my contention that the frequencies remain within the water molecule after the structure itself is no longer excited and our own testing suggests that they remain at least 5 years. How did we test the presence of frequencies? We have yet to find a device that can read or show their presence, unfortunately. However, we sent our anti-bacterial frequency enhanced water to a lab that uses a specific process to test it. They have proven that it is anti-bacterial and have also proven that it is still anti-bacterial 5 years later.
This concept is supported by the images that Dr Imoto has captured showing changes to the molecular shape of water. I believe those images of distorted molecules indicate that toxins, which are frequencies at their core (to be discussed) or the frequency imprint of those toxins, appear to remain in the molecule if there is a long continuous exposure of toxins (like a polluted lake, etc). The toxic water is still water and appears to be water, but his photographs of the shape of the molecules indicate that water holds its bonds but distorts its shape depending on the frequencies present. I assume that our Harmonized Water might have some varying shapes in the same testing environment but we have not asked him to take those pictures for us.
I am aware that there have been a handful of tests done on varying molecular structures where they have temporarily been able to retain information (frequencies) on certain substances. The emphasis being on "temporarily". My partner figured out a method to make that information stay for a very long time.
The other important aspect of my approach here is the concept of the body being an elaborate collection of many trillions of frequencies. NASA data has identified the frequencies for the atomic table as well as many substances found in nature (I have seen the list), quantum physicists and a growing number of researchers are aligned on the view that everything in nature and in our body has a distinct frequency signature. Changes to cell structures are likely the result of changed frequencies. We are attempting to neutralize certain frequencies and enhance others in the formulas we provide to improve the well being of many. As to whether or not the water is emitting a frequency, it is, as are all things in nature. I can only assume that when the water has been modified by our proprietary process it emits all of the frequencies we have imprinted as well. Again, I would love to meet someone who has a device to measure this. It is my understanding that NASA has such a device but nothing seems to be available to the consumer. Hopefully your device can. Can water emit more than one frequency and stay stable? Using the same assumptions that every atomic component has its own distinct vibration, then water already emits a multitude of frequencies that can also be measured as the resonant frequency and so a few more do not seem implausible to me. I imagine you see the emissions from things in nature as electromagnetic "radiation". But what is radiation comprised of? My answer is many spec8fic, unique frequencies generated by the many subatomic “parts” of the body as well as the resonant frequencies of larger tissues like organs.
I would be happy to send you some of the water. The frequencies we use are proprietary and scrambling waves have been added to protect that, but I could send you a water treated with say 10hz and hopefully your device can read it. Can you tell me the name of the device you have? If you are unable to detect the frequencies of cells, perhaps because each cell is billions and/or trillions of individual frequencies, then I am not sure the device is going to get the job done with my water either. But test it we shall! As for information regarding the specifics of my belief that everything has a vibrational signature, I will start the pursuit to gather sources over the coming weeks. I tend to read a lot and do not necessarily keep the information or the source...it is a bad habit ☺ However, I am confident that if you start by looking at the papers relating to Super String Theory and other related material you will find what you are looking for. I guess I also chalk it up to common sense that we know that we all emit energy/radiation, we can measure our mV's and our brain waves, etc. and I assume that this radiation is comprised of a multitude of wavelengths. The other option is that we emit random wavelengths with no purpose. The latter seems far more unlikely to me since the human body is miraculous in its complexity.
Please send me your address in a private message and we can go from there.
Thanks |
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Thu May 10, 2012 9:14 pm |
| Dr Johnson I am confused .... am I correct in understanding that you are selling a product that you only assume works or works in a certain way, because you don't have the facilites to test your own product? What is the specific process used in the microbiology lab, using your water to make up agar places and culture media? Or does autoclaving change the frequencies? |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Thu May 10, 2012 9:51 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
Hello again Dr. Johnson. You just made a fan of me on one key issue: you showed up! I am impressed that you would agree to enter a debate on this product and the science underlying it. I respect any scientist willing to publicly defend his position. Though I am obviously skeptical at the start here, I promise to listen and am willing to be moved by a good argument based on well-established facts and good scientific logic. Welcome, and let the debate begin.
My background is clinical medicine, metabolism, and physiology/cell biology. While not a nuclear physicist or chemist, I know a fair amount about radio waves. I helped to found a company that has reinvented precision radiolocation (www.locata.com) which is all about the synchronization of radio waves to allow precise positioning. We can pull radio waves with great precision. Not to mention measure location in mm.
If you will indulge me, can we start with an examination of the underlying science (physics & chemistry) before moving on to clinical effects. As I teach here and at BFT, it helps a lot to establish a clear foundation for understanding biochemical effects. If something defies all known science facts and makes no sense physiologically, acceptance is going to be a tough hill to climb no matter what clinical data is used to support. At some point we can discuss why that is.
Here is the definition of harmonized water from the Osmosis Pur website:
What is "Harmonized Water"?
Harmonized water is a combination of waters that contain different vibrational frequencies. Unlike structured water, which addresses the tendency of water molecules to cluster together, harmonized water describes the frequencies that water carries in its proton/electron outer shell. Water has the ability to carry “frequency messages” for extended periods of time and we have found that some of these messages harmonize internal imbalances in our body.
Now we know that protons within water molecules (each composed of two hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom to make H20 ) can be excited by external energy to vibrate, and that the frequency of that vibration can be detected. Indeed, that is the basis magnetic imaging. However, we also know that the vibrations cease within milliseconds of the removal of the very high energy from those very powerful magnets. When that happens, the protons return to their “relaxed” state, where they started. The difference between excited and relaxed states is what helps create the images of MRI.
But in order for the statement harmonized water describes the frequencies that water carries in its proton/electron outer shell to be true, one would have to assume that the water (not under an MRI magnet) was emitting radio frequency energy. But without a very powerful energy source to “excite” water, it doesn’t have that capability. Water at rest is very quiet. Which is good, otherwise the oceans and lakes would provide so much noise that radio waves all over the planet would be made useless.
Radio waves are waves of energy (excited electrons). Water at rest is about the most inert chemical known. If it were emitting energy, that energy would have to be conserved (basic law of physics). Which means the water would have to give up its potential energy, which is to say its chemical bonds. The result of that is a hydrogen bomb. it requires a whole lot of external energy to make one of those go off.
So, as you can see, I am having problems with the idea of water emitting radio frequencies from its outer shell in the absence of simultaneous external energy, and lots of it. Basic problem of physics and chemistry. If you can help me to understand this part, we could then move on to how these messages harmonize internal imbalances in our body. And other statements like the reality is that every cell in your body (and everything in nature) has its own unique frequency, very much like a fingerprint. Again, excuse the skepticism, but I am surprised that as a physician and scientist I have never heard of this. It would be quite marvelous if it’s true, because I have the equipment to measure the tiniest of radio waves, and would love to be able to do things like track cells that leave one spot and migrate to another. Which reminds me, could you send me some harmonized water so I can test it? Which frequencies should I be looking for.
I thank you again (as I am sure others here do as well) for your willingness to answer questions and enter into a collegial debate. Here is your opportunity to educate a discerning audience. |
Hi Dr. J - I'm sure you don't mind answering this:
I pulled this statement from above:
As I teach here and at BFT, Do you mind telling us where is "here" that you teach? I assume this information above is extracted from another source (cut and paste) and wasn't edited. It comes off as odd so I had to ask. As Bethany stated in another thread your responses sound like multiple people at times. Thanks. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Fri May 11, 2012 6:49 am |
| sister sweets wrote: |
Hi Dr. J - I'm sure you don't mind answering this:
I pulled this statement from above:
As I teach here and at BFT, Do you mind telling us where is "here" that you teach? I assume this information above is extracted from another source (cut and paste) and wasn't edited. It comes off as odd so I had to ask. As Bethany stated in another thread your responses sound like multiple people at times. Thanks. |
Here = EDS. There is only one of me. |
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