CO2 (Turns Out Was Fractional), Little Downtime, Very Upset
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:40 am

I'm home again after getting chin correction/rhinoplasty (which I'm pleased with, 9 days post-op), and was also booked for what was advertised as CO2 laser, full face.

I HATE the texture of my forehead particularly. 2 days after the CO2, I look almost normal! I feel I paid quite a bit of money for so little and feel the blues coming on Sad

My previous posts on EDS have had me jumping through hoops to achieve evenly-textured skin..my last big experiment was Efudix about 8 months ago, sadly my skin barely changed, though I got very red and weepy for around 2 weeks. I do AALS every few days, Retin-A regularly and TCAs sparingly throughout the year.

I'd overdone the 0.01% Retin-A 10 days before the laser, as I was trying to clear up mild acne on my cheeks (posted on here!) but my face recovered fast.

To save me from typing out twice, I've copied my post from MMH (apologies!):
"I've had rhinoplasty and chin reduction abroad which I'm happy with. I was also booked for CO2 laser alongside it all but it was cancelled for a week, as the surgeon said he'd have to laser around my cast/bandage round my nose (?). So I waited until I could do my full face (though I still have a smaller bandage on my nose).

I haven't done my research, as I thought it was fully ablative CO2; but in a correspondence email "fractional" is mentioned once (in conversation and in documentation it's all, "CO2 laser" only). D'oh me.

Even more strangely, 2 days ago I had to go under anaesthetic for an hour during the treatment (I thought fractionals only need topical cream?). The anaesthetist said that my treatment should only take "half an hour or so". My downtime is to be only about 5-7 days (I know only too well: less downtime=less remodelling).

I woke to a reasonably red face, some dots of blood..to be honest, I was a bit disappointed when I looked in the mirror. It was similar to how I appear after using a 1.5mm Dermaroller (Dr Roller; which I used a four times with EMLA cream, every few months, and gave me zero results).

I was prescribed painkillers/antibiotics afterwards (I'm not uncomfortable/in pain). After wiping my face with vaseline/cotton pads the first night, my face was red but otherwise pretty normal. Some track marks but nothing that suggests any miracles. Slight expression lines (not at all that deep)/texture is still visible underneath the dots.

And for this I paid around £1000. I've emailed to ask which fractional laser was used, but I can't help but feel depressed about it. I was longing for a total resurfacing of my skin, yet I read earlier that profractional lasers only require topical creams and take several treatments to show any results. Some fractionals are recommended to be used for 3/4/5 sessions, every few weeks! A lot of the stuff I'm reading about fractional laser, results-wise, isn't encouraging.

On EDS forum they really dislike Fraxel particularly, which is giving me a sinking feeling again Sad

One link even suggested that "For example, a Fraxel™ SR treatment session can range from approximately £250 - £350 for one small area of the face or neck to £750 for a full face or décolletage (the area between the neck and breasts) treatment.
A Pixel® 2940 treatment session can start from approximately £300 for a full face treatment." Sad

(!!)

Happy to post pictures, if it helps."

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:51 am

Pictures: http://www.makemeheal.com/pictures/laser-treatments/fractional-co2-laser-hours-after-procedure-then-a-day-and-a-half-later-i-needed-anaesthesia-doesn-t-look-very-deep-at-all-a11927 (password: fractional).

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:25 am

It doesn't look very invasive does it? My daughter had a fractionated laser about a month ago and she said she was a real mess for over a week (although I didn't see her). But she said she was covered in the bloody dots although she had no swelling. She said it was the most painful thing ever, she just had the numbing cream. She thought she was going to pass out during the treatment and starting crying it was so dreadful. I had a Pearl Laser earlier this year - you can see my pictures and read about my experience on this thread:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=38363

The Pearl isn't fractionated so it's supposed to be milder - but I think I look more of a mess than you. I had allot of swelling and my face looked "toasted" for about five days. Then it healed very quickly. The Pearl cost $AUD2,000!!

Quite frankly, I'm totally confused about all these different lasers. I think allot depends on how intense the clinician does it. I certainly think it's better to have one intensive treatment than a series of milder ones.

If you're unhappy with your results, I suggest you let the doctor know asap. On the upside - your skin looks great to me - and your nose is looking fab!!!

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:39 am

It makes me sound neurotic, my skin doesn't photograph well..the complexion at my cheeks tends to be "normal", but my forehead is a rough texture, fine lines, "orange peel" almost, hard to convey in the pictures. I've tried everything to make my forehead skin look nicer.

It's really the T-zone and chin that need the resurfacing, again, really hard to see in those photos. I'll try some in harsh light.

To be honest, for £1000, I feel incredibly ripped off! With anaesthetic? I've done deeper peels myself at home!

There was a definite lack of communication as "CO2 laser" kept being mentioned, and fractional is only tucked away in one email somewhere. The very cynical me thinks it's a way of bringing you back to spend more money on false promises. Let's face it, fractional doesn't exactly get a good reputation. Quite gutted as I've been looking forward to this (and saving hard) all year. Sad

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:15 am

Fraxel Repair is a Co2 laser requiring only one treatment, however Fraxel Restore is an erbium laser which requires three to five treatments. You'll have to find out exactly which laser you had. For 1000 pounds, I'm sure you got the Co2. Maybe they didn't use a very intense setting.

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:24 am

Hopefully you can see what I mean about the bad texture still being visible. Taken 10 minutes ago, 48 hours after fractional CO2 Sad

:

The top of my nose, between my eyebrows is still swollen; there's usually a scar/dent there. I have vertical veins that run alongside there which go right up my head and drive me crazy!

What are my options? Do you think it was worth £1000, is it the going rate? Should I ask if I can get the procedure redone more aggressively? Or should I have been informed that this is a resurfacing method that's culmative (according to what I'm reading)?

I've emailed to ask which laser was used.

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:32 am

I can see what you mean about the uneven texture - although it is still very early days. The full results of your treatment won't be seen until some months down the track. However, you really need to go back and speak to your doctor about it. Tell him/her that you were expecting total skin resurfacing which you don't feel you've got.

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:38 am

Thanks, Keliu. I'm very down about it as I've had to put up with this horrible skin texture since puberty. Most of my life I've longed for smooth, healthy looking skin there. To come back home with this after all the waiting is heartbreaking (I thought, hey, anaesthesia, I'll probably look horrible for a fortnight, I don't mind downtime). Very disappointed.

I made sure I took pictures sans Vaseline this time, as it makes me look better than I am! From what I know about my skin and peels, I would be shocked if anything changed. I'm expecting the worst.

Just have to wait on the verdict from the doctor.

Not sure if both pictures work; you can see them here: http://img709.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=1312crop.jpg

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:57 am

Don't get down on yourself. You've been through a heck of a lot - as time goes on you WILL see improvements. But I understand how you feel - when you go through the pain and suffering, you want to see some real visible results. But as I said earlier, I believe the final result of a laser treatment depends on how invasive it was. Don't sit there fretting about it - talk to your doctor.

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:37 am

The pictures in the album aren't showing properly, still. Trying one last time:

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6086/1312crop.jpg

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2353/1313crop.jpg

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:48 am

I agree with Keliu, definitely discuss this with your Dr. and indicate this wasn't as in-depth a treatment as you were expecting for your money and for the level of anesthetic you were given.

I've not had laser, but have been thinking about it and have researched it. I have a few friends who have had it. I too would have expected a much longer recovery period from a CO2 laser.

Let us know what happens!

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:15 am

ShastaGirl wrote:

I agree with Keliu, definitely discuss this with your Dr. and indicate this wasn't as in-depth a treatment as you were expecting for your money and for the level of anesthetic you were given.

I've not had laser, but have been thinking about it and have researched it. I have a few friends who have had it. I too would have expected a much longer recovery period from a CO2 laser.

Let us know what happens!

I only know what I have read here and online, never had laser either, but also agree you should let your doctor know how you feel about the procedure and your expectations/disappointment.
Just don't let it get you down!

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:55 am

Keliu, I remember reading your thread about Pearl Laser and being impressed by how refined and bright your complexion looked aftewards. And thanks for sympathising, ShastaGirl and DarkMoon, it's appreciated. I was really gloomy last night.

Really, I've looked worse post-TCA or Dermaroller, and definitely after my Efudix/Retin-A shenanigans!

A reminder of my Efudix experiment (when it started to really go red, end of May 2010):
http://img571.imageshack.us/i/dsc01087s.jpg/

..Efudix at its worst, a few days later (June 2010):
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2200/thething2.jpg

As a comparison, me 8 hours after the fractional CO2, 2 days ago!: http://yfrog.com/750311108pmcroppedj

My skin looks barely touched! Sad

But as you say Keliu, I'll (try) to have faith and be patient. Emailed the surgeon's representative this afternoon.

free skin care · Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:07 am

I've got quite a detailed thread here, with pictures of my nose/chin.. http://server217-174-253-201.live-servers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=41065

Pictures taken one-handed so they're not great!

free skin care · Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:40 am

I got a reply today: "Regarding CO2 laser, it is system called Tre-ampuls. The treatment can be taken only once, but for better effect it is recommended to take the treatment at least 3 times during half year and the best in the colder months, not summer." (She's Czech Smile

). She also suggested that I send pictures when I am fully healed. That's the problem, I AM healed, and I was within 3 days. Utterly disappointed and downhearted about my skin.

I can't find any details about Tre-ampuls, and I still feel £1000 for a very mild brush with Fractional was a lot for very little. Crying or Very sad

Actually, that's being generous, as there's NO change in my skin at all.

I was even sent a .pdf with the exact same price (described as "CO2 laser") and this description: "Laser Treatments
Laser treatment is widely used in the U.S. Due to its unique effect which gradually develops skin treatment - new collagen is created depending on the strength of the treatment undertaken, skin qualities and skin care, it also creates slight face lifting - "laser lifting". Skin and its surface are smooth, scars and wrinkles can be removed. Deep wrinkles will be visibly smoother, small wrinkles disappear completely. Full face CO2 laser treatment is undertaken under full anesthetics and takes about 90 minutes. The client can leave our Clinic the following day but about a ten day stay at home is necessary. Skin improvement immediately after treatment is not definite as new collagen is created within 6 - 12 months after which skin is smoothed permanently. The treatment is the most effective tested method for wrinkle removal and improvement of ageing skin.
Why CO2 laser at our Clinic?
In co-operation with the American company Coherent, our clinic was the first to introduce laserlifting in the Czech Republic and accordingly has the biggest experiences of this treatment in the country. At our clinic we do offer other lifting methods as well so you can be sure that laser treatment will only be recommended if it is the best solution for you. Pre-operative check up is followed by post-operative care at our Clinic so we guarantee the maximum safety, protection and results which can be achieved. We apply all the methods rigorously and offer follow-up care which makes healing and convalescence easier. You can add other rehabilitation techniques and treatments to speed up your come back to normal life. We offer best price for laser lifting and follow-up care due to the international support of laser medicine. During your initial assessment we will inform you of all conditions and care offered."

One email recently mentioned "Fractional" so I'm utterly confused. And reading that Fractional treatments tend to be around £300 a pop (I paid around £1000, with sedation), that's made me even worse!

free skin care · Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:41 pm

I can't find any information on Coherant Tre-ampuls Laser either.

Quite frankly, you're between a rock and a hard place - this is the trouble with having procedures done overseas. When you initially posted, I didn't realise that you had already returned home and that going back to the clinic wasn't an option.

I fully realise where you're coming from - so disappointing to shell out all that money and to not get the results you were hoping for - especially as you were mentally prepared for major skin resurfacing and the associated downtime.

I would write back and say that you are majorly disappointed with your results and want a refund. I don't think you'll get anywhere because they'll just tell you that the results won't be seen until a few months down the track. But it seems fairly obvious to me that the treatment wasn't done at an effective level.

free skin care · Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:47 pm

Thanks, Keliu. The representative is very kind and was great company for me over there on my own (I must be mad going to a strange country solo, but that's desperation and lack of funds for you). I tend to believe the best of people, so my emails have been asking questions, rather than making demands.

Apologies for not saying I was abroad, I typed it out in one big splurge.

I asked this time around why the documentation describes a much more aggressive procedure, stating again I feel the price/depth of resurfacing was nowhere near what I expected. Depending on the reply, I'll then ask for a refund but I don't expect much. I do feel I've been misled. I was cleaning out a drawer earlier and found a big pot of nappy cream (!) which was part of my post-laser recovery weaponry.

A lesson to do your research and know 100% what you're getting into! I feel a bit better after speaking to friends, and seeing your post Smile

On the plus side, I have a nose and chin I'm happy with.

free skin care · Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:02 pm

ljk wrote:

A lesson to do your research and know 100% what you're getting into! I feel a bit better after speaking to friends, and seeing your post Smile

On the plus side, I have a nose and chin I'm happy with.

Exactly! Look on the bright side - things would be much worse if your nose had fallen off or something!! Mark the laser down as experience - next time you have a treatment done, you'll know exactly what questions to ask.

Try your hardest to get some kind of refund though!

free skin care · Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:55 am

This is a picture which probably shows what sort of treatment I got: http://www.homea.cz/filip/2009/090406_CO2_fractional_laser/s/CO2-CO2_fractional_laser-20090406_114210-CO2_fractional_laser-o_detail_nos-s.jpg

I got another reply, though it didn't address my questions. "so the name of the device is MultiXel TL, CO2 fractional laser. This is the most powerful derma-surgical ultra-puls laser with digital scanner. MultiXel is a scanning type fractional ultra-pulse CO2 laser, in which the surgeon can control freely Scan Area, Density Level and Beam Degree..This is the strongest laser we have at the clinic, other lasers are V-beam, Aesthera, Accent..Hope those information are suficcient."

I'm totally confused. I was thinking I was getting the "old" CO2. I've asked on numerous forums whether the amount I paid was excessive, whether the treatment should have been more aggressive, and what I should expect post-treatment but nobody seems to know. From that reply I assume they're not interested in pursuing my questions any further Sad

All I can find is this: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dermis.fi%2Fverkkokauppa%2Findex.php%3Fmain_page%3Dproduct_info%26cPath%3D84_86%26products_id%3D350%26zenid%3Dfbde5ea088e3e5994a3592b9f80563ff

free skin care · Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:09 am

Well, according to them, you did get a strong laser, however, whether the clinician used a strong setting is another thing. Lasers have changed allot over the past few years and I don't think the old CO2 ones are in favour anymore.

As I said, I paid $AUD2,000 for my laser treatment - my daughter paid $AUD1,500 so I don't think 1000 pounds is excessive if it included the anesthetic. Of course, it is excessive if you're not happy with the results!

free skin care · Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:15 am

I have driven myself half-crazy reading about various CO2 laser procedures. Even those getting the full monty aren't always satisfied..so I suppose I should drop this bone and put it down to experience. Back to TCA peels for me Confused

I could cling weakly to the hope that my skin will improve in the coming months, but that never seems to happen in my case! A more detailed reply with some options from the clinic would have been nice.

free skin care · Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:00 am

You never know, 6 months down the track you might be thrilled with the results! Just don't start back on the TCA peels anytime soon. Give your face time to heel properly.

Just write back to the clinic and tell them you're most unhappy with the results of your laser treatment and won't be recommending them to anyone else.

free skin care · Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:06 pm

ljk, I have been reading your post about your disappointing laser treatment.

I had a fraxel repair done about 8 months ago. I was also disappointed. At fist the skin texture was nice (when I was still swollen) but I got an acne break out during the healing period. So it was king of hard to see the progress of the healing from laser since I was also having a bad acne break out. Once the acne was cleared out and the swollen gone I could not see much a difference from before.

Bottom line I was really disappointed with the results after 3 months. Felt like had done nothing else than throwing down the drain 3 000$ Canadian.

But after 5 months I could tell my skin was better. I believe that the results from type of laser come after a few months as they come from the derma getting stronger as it heals and not from a top layer being renewed.

I also fells that the results are being achieved on a long period and we don’t actually see the difference but over all the skin gets much better. Kind of like when we take slowly a few ponds on. We don’t see it happening ….

I would say don’t worry and let time go. Maybe in 4 month or so you realise finally your skin get better.

Good luck

free skin care · Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:45 am

I thought co2 laser had a LOT of down time since they burn off a layer of skin,however it is one of the most effective lasers for giving you a fresh layer of wrinkle free skin.Only certain races can have it though because certain races will end up with uneven skin coloring....

free skin care · Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:36 am

lucyluc wrote:

I thought co2 laser had a LOT of down time since they burn off a layer of skin,however it is one of the most effective lasers for giving you a fresh layer of wrinkle free skin.Only certain races can have it though because certain races will end up with uneven skin coloring....

Yes, I've been reading up on this. It is very invasive - you have to have dressings on your face for a few weeks. You are basically a full on burns victim and are therefore at risk of skin infections and other complications. However, it's supposed to be the only laser treatment that will truly get rid of wrinkles and make the skin look younger.

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.