How long until I look any good again?
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free skin care · Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:32 pm

I admit that I have unfortunately neglected my skin my entire life! Only occasional sunscreens when I remembered and no skin care routine at all, just washing my face in the shower and moisturizer if my skin felt dry. Yet I didn't have that many problems and still looked pretty good in spite of it. Then the last year I was outside all the time driving a lot and walking around or in nature.

Anyways, several months ago I had decided to take care of my skin and try what I could to improve it so I bought a bunch of nice skin care products and sunscreens and started using them everyday. Since I started this skin care routine my skin looks SO much worse now! I know that a small part of that must be the delayed effect of the sun damage, yet really ever since I started it has gotten worse and worse not better! I know that some of these things have 'ugly' periods or whatever, yet how long are they supposed to last and how do you know it will get better? It seems like a lot of faith to just believe it will get better and I wonder what I can do to speed it up and things I can do for more dramatic results.

I have been using cleansers and toners and this Osmosis enlightening serum with retinol, and a 20% vitamin C serum with arbutin a few nights a week, a glycolic peel every couple weeks, and a pineapple enzyme peel about once a week, plus a 30spf moisturizer everyday. My skin is so dry as well as the texture is terrible! No breakouts so much, just really rough strange texture and huge pores! Plus my NL's are so much worse now and my skin has More fine lines than before the routine and I look older and older everyday! Also all of my blotchiness and spots have not lightened and perhaps look even worse and darker! I was hoping all this could help all these things and it has just made it all worse! I thought that all the exfoliation would help the texture and pores to smooth out my skin, yet it has not done that!

Does anyone know what I should expect and if it is worth it to stick to these kinds of products or if I should switch to a different type of a routine? Or is there anything that can counter a little of the effects? Like the hydration of it?

free skin care · Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:09 am

I actually was told that id you exfoliate a lot and had not before that you will get darker spots at first and eventually they are supposed to go away.

no idea how long that takes though.

free skin care · Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:57 am

I am certainly not an expert, but I had something similar with the roughness and weird texture many years ago. It was caused by a cream that was probably off, and afterwards I realised the huge pores and texture as if I had been a sailor must have been caused by an inflammation of sorts.
You could take a time out from the agressive stuff, using only very gentle things and see if things calm down, and slowly re-introduce the stronger measures one by one and see how it goes. If your skin is having an inflammation, but I don't know if it has, it needs rest to fight it.

free skin care · Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:27 am

BYRG wrote:

I have been using cleansers and toners and this Osmosis enlightening serum with retinol, and a 20% vitamin C serum with arbutin a few nights a week, a glycolic peel every couple weeks, and a pineapple enzyme peel about once a week, plus a 30spf moisturizer everyday. My skin is so dry as well as the texture is terrible! No breakouts so much, just really rough strange texture and huge pores! Plus my NL's are so much worse now and my skin has More fine lines than before the routine and I look older and older everyday! Also all of my blotchiness and spots have not lightened and perhaps look even worse and darker! I was hoping all this could help all these things and it has just made it all worse! I thought that all the exfoliation would help the texture and pores to smooth out my skin, yet it has not done that!

Does anyone know what I should expect and if it is worth it to stick to these kinds of products or if I should switch to a different type of a routine? Or is there anything that can counter a little of the effects? Like the hydration of it?

Wow that is a very aggressive routine! Gentle exfoliation encourages skin turnover, over exfoliating strips the layers faster than the skin is able to repair itself. No moisturiser can mitigate against stripping the skin's protective acid mantle so thoroughly. I think you should stop using everything I have emboldened, and commence a gentle hydration and repair regimen. Then add the exfoliants back in one by one, perhaps at lower concentrations and adhering to the recommended 'down times'.

You might find some of the posts here helpful
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6439708
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=43925

free skin care · Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:32 am

ITA with Firefox. You are using way to many irritating products right now. Go back to the basics till your skin calms down.

free skin care · Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:45 pm

Thanks. I thought it was just part of what people put up with since so many people mention an ugly stage and peeling and dryness with retin A. Also, a lot of people say they use Retin A layered over a vitamin C serum at night. I have never used any prescription retin A's, it's just a product over the counter with some retinol as an ingredient, though all of the lighteners are probably harsh as well. I did notice peeling flaky skin many times.

I'm now out of the retinol serum and didn't plan on getting it again, and I'm totally ok with not using the glycolic peel at all for a while. So I guess I will just use the Vitamin C, though should I only be using it a certain number of days like every other day or dilute it?

I think I will start using heavier moisturizers and more firming / replenishing masks to calm. I'm starting to use hemp oil since it is so high in GLA and anti-inflamatories to calm the skin.

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:48 am

Some don't tolerate C serums well, it can definitely be irritating. I would normally recommend starting off with 10% or 15% but since you already have 20% maybe use every other day as your skin tolerates. I wouldn't try to dilute it since you could render it ineffective.

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:50 am

BYRG wrote:

Thanks. I thought it was just part of what people put up with since so many people mention an ugly stage and peeling and dryness with retin A. Also, a lot of people say they use Retin A layered over a vitamin C serum at night. I have never used any prescription retin A's, it's just a product over the counter with some retinol as an ingredient, though all of the lighteners are probably harsh as well. I did notice peeling flaky skin many times.

I'm now out of the retinol serum and didn't plan on getting it again, and I'm totally ok with not using the glycolic peel at all for a while. So I guess I will just use the Vitamin C, though should I only be using it a certain number of days like every other day or dilute it?

I think I will start using heavier moisturizers and more firming / replenishing masks to calm. I'm starting to use hemp oil since it is so high in GLA and anti-inflamatories to calm the skin.

Do you mean hemp applied topically or as a food supplement? Hemp is not as potent an anti-inflammatory as is often claimed. The omega-3s are short chain which only convert to the useable long forms at a rate of ~10%. GLA is the only omega-6 known to have anti-inflammatory properties, hemp is far richer in LA which is pro-inflammatory and abundant in the Western diet. If you wish to use GLA topically borage is a better source and has consequently been used in dermatitis studies. You might also consider applying rosehip seed oil as research suggests healing and anti-ageing properties attributed to the vitamin A (~retinoid) it contains.

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:50 am

I third Firefox's advice...way too aggressive. Your skin needs time to acclimate and the best way is to introduce things slowly, not all at once.
I don't think all is lost with your skin, it will turn around. In the beginning, I can't tell you how many times I thought I ruined my face! Laughing

Thank goodness it wasn't any permanent damage Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:44 pm

Yeah I meant topically. I consume the oil as well. Hemp, coconut and Udo's DHA blend are the only oil I consume in my diet. Though hemp oil has 500 mg of GLA per TB, which makes it the least expensive source of GLA, and it has a 3:1 6 to 3 ratio so it is very well balanced. LA has the potential to be proinflamatory or antinflamatory and is essential.

I have rosehip oil in my sunscreen, it's good too.

I also just bought an oil with rosehip, tamanu, sea buckthorne, immortelle, carrot and lemon balm.

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:32 pm

You likely added way too many products way too fast. Your skin was so used to not having anything on it, and then it's suddenly bombarded with cleansers, moisturizers, exfoliants and a plethora of other chemicals that it's reacting to tell you to SLOW DOWN! Start with a cleanser and moisturizer, and then slowly add on what you NEED. Don't do something just because everyone else is doing it because you're not everyone else. Listen to your skin and treat it gently. I'm particularly concerned with your sudden impulse to use Retin-A. Do NOT use that right now until you skin returns normal again. As I said, slowly introduce a new step every couple weeks once your skin has adjusted to the new product, and only if you need it.

free skin care · Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:05 pm

GirlieGirl wrote:

Some don't tolerate C serums well, it can definitely be irritating. I would normally recommend starting off with 10% or 15% but since you already have 20% maybe use every other day as your skin tolerates. I wouldn't try to dilute it since you could render it ineffective.

The use of a C serum ( at only $15%) caused untold damage to my skins. I ended up with a chemical burn, rapid hyper pigmentation of my face and rapid development of fine lines and creepiness under the eyes. Throwing the C serum away was the best thing I ever did. It took 3 weeks for the inflammation and damage to calm down and I was left with skin significantly worse than when I started. 3 weeks later of using nothing except water and a simple coconut oil moisturizer and the lines and crepey skin were gone but the pigmentation remained.

I had to get rid of pigmentation over months using nutritional supplements. A lot of skin care products are highly dangerous and damaging to the skin. They exist primarily to abscond with our cash and the companies that produce them don't care if we look worse for wear afterwards. I always cringe when I read people one here doing home TCAs and high concentrations of actives. It only takes one bad reaction and you will be living with it forever.

My advice is throw it all I'm the bin, do what you were previously doing and be happy with the skin you have. Chasing a chemical dream doesn't have a happy ending.

free skin care · Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:16 pm

NotMeNotYou wrote:

My advice is throw it all I'm the bin, do what you were previously doing and be happy with the skin you have. Chasing a chemical dream doesn't have a happy ending.

That's not necessarily true. While its good to share experiences, you have to know how to do it right. That's why we're all here, to learn and to teach. You can't just slap on any ole strength of peel or any Vit C tablet from a Vit C jar and expect it to work correctly. There are a lot of good products that do wonders!!! Previously she was doing nothing and doing better. Certainly, you're not saying that she should go back to that? lol

free skin care · Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:37 pm

lol. Methinks NotMeNotYou was just caught reminiscing about her bad experience and subsequent frustration. Its not the worst advice in this situation though.

I think products (used with care!) are worth a shot, but holy, we've got to be a whole lot gentler on our skin than a lot of us are. Even vit c serum - I remember when I first started using it, how it used to almost feel like burning but I went ahead anyway. Not cool. My skin is more resilient than most so I can only imagine what it (& sun exposure) might do to fine, pink skin with little pigment. SCARY.

I'd recommend that you give up the vit c for a while as well, just 'til your skin recovers completely from the shock. Then, as everyone else says, introduce whatever you'd like slowly... one product at a time if you want to use multiple. That include cleansers. Make sure that your skin is "happy" with your cleanser to start because if you're starting off stripping the protective barrier off your skin, you're just in for more trouble.
If it were me, I'd use gentle ocm, not vigourously and not for long, with an oil I know my skin is ok with, just to gently "pat" it back to health, if you will. Never underestimate the power of healing massage. Smile

free skin care · Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:53 am

flgirl wrote:

Previously she was doing nothing and doing
better. Certainly, you're not saying that she should go back to that? lol

I deleted my entire post because actually your statement says it all. Yes, I am most certainly advising she go back to that, the results speak for themselves. I also have achieved better results by doing nothing than by loading my face up with irritants.

You make the very big assumption that obviously I did something stupid and that is why I experienced a problem. Maybe I did do something stupid, I believed the advice on this forum and began using a supposedly safe product that turned out to be not so much.

free skin care · Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:27 am

Well shut the forum down, we figured it out! Smile

Lori, what strength Vit C do you recommend for someone who is just starting and where do you get yours? I just got some Vit C in my HA serum but I'm not sure how much and I don't want to Overdose myself. Since its important to pay attention to other products that we use while incorporating something new here's my regimen: Lactic peel once a week/home microderm on the same day as lactic, no retinol/retin a or anything else, except HA daily and rosehip oil.

My skin is pretty normal and can tolerate a lot. Don't want to make the same mistake here. Thanks Smile

free skin care · Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:20 pm

flgirl wrote:

Well shut the forum down, we figured it out! Smile

Lori, what strength Vit C do you recommend for someone who is just starting and where do you get yours? I just got some Vit C in my HA serum but I'm not sure how much and I don't want to Overdose myself. Since its important to pay attention to other products that we use while incorporating something new here's my regimen: Lactic peel once a week/home microderm on the same day as lactic, no retinol/retin a or anything else, except HA daily and rosehip oil.

My skin is pretty normal and can tolerate a lot. Don't want to make the same mistake here. Thanks
Smile

There is no need to be sarcastic and nasty. Back to the actual topic of this thread. This user has reported negative effects from use of products. Very similar effects that I experienced right before I got post imflammatory
hyperpigmentatiom to 50% of my face. If you've ever had to live with that for near on a year you would realise how devastating it is to your psyche and how difficult it is to fix as well.

She also seems to have fairly similar skin type to me, it would be negligent of me not to point
out my experience. So your skin can take a lot, good for you. But that doesn't help the OP.

Just as some people experience positive results
with actives its not impossible that negative results can occur as well, even at low concentrations. Rolling Eyes

Rather than deride people who don't share your point of view, perhaps we should allow contrary opinions to exist for the benefit of those in the minority for whom actives can actually be detrimental. If my ethos of do no harm seems silly to you, thats not really my problem. I've learned from hard experience that it's a very good ethos to live by.

free skin care · Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:51 pm

Oh no, I think there was a misunderstanding here... it doesn't seem to me that either of you meant to offend.
Of course, we're all here looking for answers, and leaving our skin alone is one answer which too many seem to overlook, so worth a mention. Its hard to come to the point where we trust our bodies to regulate things on their own though when we've seen it fail us with all those imperfections. And on a forum like this, where people are reporting great things from certain products.. well none of us want to miss out. Its a fine line, not everyone can tolerate them. But a lot of us do just fine... just gotta be careful figuring out which boat we're in.
I find it refreshing that someone is here mentioning the hands-off approach. I believe that way too many young people have ruined their youthful skin submitting to peer & media pressure & using products. Not everyone needs them or benefits from them. A couple of pimples or a wrinkle doesn't warrant a full on regimen of complicated potions!

flgirl, I'm flattered that you'd ask for my recommendation but I'm hardly an expert, especially when it comes to products & strengths etc. I just wing it and can't say that I really know what I'm doing. There are lots of knowledgeable people here who can help though.

free skin care · Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:21 am

Thanks Lori

You explained that perfectly. I guess after my owm disaster I get quite anxious to help another avoid the event I suffered. Skin products, while mostly safe can have unexpected results.

I also get very alarmed by 20 something women resorting to TCA peels, high concentration acids and Retin A to fix what really aren't problems at all. The OP kind of demonstrates the aggressive approach it's all to easy to take with the skim. Believing that not using a lot of products is actually failing to take care of the skin. Which isn't true.

At lot of the topical treatments discussed on this forum were developed by dermatologists to treat specific skin conditions in mostly older women. The sudden availability on the open market of these actives means that even very young women are using them in the belief they are preventing wrinkles.

We've forgotten their true purpose and I think it's a shame that young women have also lost the ability to appreciate what they have while they still have it. I never used a moisturizer before I was 30, and my brief and only adventure into the world of actives was short lived. My skin still looks better than a lot of the 20 something's I work with (I'm 40). You don't have to religiously use a facial routine to have good
skin. And using one won't prevent wrinkles, only sunscreen and youth can do that.

In any case, if someone comes onto this board telling me they have experienced negative side effects from using a product then I really think cutting out that product at least temporarily is the way to go. Wink

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