Best spf moisturizer for 72-year old?
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free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:35 pm

I need some help in finding a good day/night moisturizer for my 72-year-old mother. She has just started using 3 products from MUAC:

1. Green tea face wash

2. Phytocell Renewal Serum

Ingredients:
Purified Water, Hawaiian Sea Extract, Ethoxydiglycol, Malus Domestica Fruit Cell Culture Extract, Sodium Hyaluronate, Polysorbate 20, Phenoxyethanol, Xanthan Gum, Glycerin, Lecithin, Caprylyl Glycol, Fragrance, Hexylene Glycol

3. Triple Enzyme Peel

Ingredients:

Deionized Water, Aloe Vera, Kaolin Clay, Sweet Almond Oil, Safflower Oil, ACB Pumpkin Enzyme, Bromelain Enzyme, Papain Enzyme, Hydrogenated Polydecene, Polyacrylate, Sacharomyces Lysate, Chamomile Extract, Green Tea Extract, Sodium Hyaluronate, Polisobutene, Polysorbate 20, Fragrance (Apricot/Chamomile), Benzyl Alcohol, Methylisothiazolinone.

These are the products that were recommended for her when I emailed to ask what she should use for her age to help soften lines and improve skin tone and texture. But I need to know what would be a good day moisturizer with spf 15 or higher and a good night moisturizer as well.

Any recommendations?

free skin care · Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:33 pm

You have few proven actives there, in fact I don't see vitamin C or a reinoid which are the two most proven for anti-ageing? IMO look for something with those for a night cream. Devita make some nice gentle hydrating sunscreens, which include proven actives although I can't vouch for the percentages.

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:17 pm

a great sunscreen + rich moisturizer would be the vanilla sun spf 32 from eminence. I have dry skintype and use this product and find it very moisturizing. Great for mature skintypes.

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:32 pm

Sorry, I didn't see either of these posts until now. I ended up ordering her Skinceuticals Ultimate UV Defense Moisturizing Broad-spectrum Sunscreen SPF 30, 3-Ounce Tube.

FireFox, my mother's skin is pretty thin and sensitive due to not only her age, but she had a very deep peel done years ago after a face lift. It really shouldn't have been done.

Anyway, is it still okay that she use both the vitamin C and Retinoid, or should she use one or the other?

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:37 pm

BCgirl wrote:

a great sunscreen + rich moisturizer would be the vanilla sun spf 32 from eminence. I have dry skintype and use this product and find it very moisturizing. Great for mature skintypes.

BCGirl, I just looked at the Eminence sunscreen you have been using and it only has 5% zinc oxide. That's kind of low and could be the reason you've gotten a little freckling. The Devita may be a better choice. http://www.essentialdayspa.com/devita-solar-protective-m-p_14027.htm

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:47 pm

It has two sunscreen ingredients in the Eminence Tropical Vanilla Sun Cream SPF 32 - Face? One ZO and a chemical SS-Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate (also known as Octyl Methoxycinnamate

Ingredients
- Shea Butter: calming and moisturizing; it is an excellent emollient for skin and naturally occurring sun screen
- Zinc Oxide: astringent and anti-inflammatory; aids in healing skin irritations and blocks UV rays
- Vanilla: calming, soothing; improves circulation
- Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate (also known as Octyl Methoxycinnamate): clear liquid compound that absorbs UVB light

Zinc Oxide 5%, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate 6% Linden Tea, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Cetearyl Alcohol & Sodium Cetearyl Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Vegetable Glycerin, Shea Butter, Aloe Juice, Corn Germ Oil, Biocomplex (Vitamin A, Vitamin C Ester, Vitamin E, Coenzyme Q10, Alpha Lipoic Acid), Naturally-Derived Glyceryl Stearate, Natural Moisturizing Factor, Sodium PCA, Glycerin Derivative, Corn-Derived Methyl Glucose Sesquisterate, Xanthan Gum, Caprylyl Glycol, Vanilla Extract, Lecithin.

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:07 pm

sandooch wrote:

Any recommendations?

If she doesn't like the Skinceuticals, and she likes a faint rose scent, try Pratima. I have dry skin now and this is my favorite sunscreen.

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:54 pm

Quote:

BCGirl, I just looked at the Eminence sunscreen you have been using and it only has 5% zinc oxide. That's kind of low and could be the reason you've gotten a little freckling. The Devita may be a better choice. http://www.essentialdayspa.com/devita-solar-protective-m-p_14027.htm

interesting. I always thought the higher the spf, the more it will protect against UV. How much zinc should i be looking for in a sunscreen?

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:53 pm

BCgirl wrote:

Quote:

BCGirl, I just looked at the Eminence sunscreen you have been using and it only has 5% zinc oxide. That's kind of low and could be the reason you've gotten a little freckling. The Devita may be a better choice. http://www.essentialdayspa.com/devita-solar-protective-m-p_14027.htm

interesting. I always thought the higher the spf, the more it will protect against UV. How much zinc should i be looking for in a sunscreen?

I think at least 18%. 5% is really low. SPF only measures UVB protection. You need good UVA protection too.

From Wikipedia:
The sun protection factor of a sunscreen is a laboratory measure of the effectiveness of sunscreen — the higher the SPF, the more protection a sunscreen offers against UV-B (the ultraviolet radiation that causes sunburn).[2]

The SPF is the amount of UV radiation required to cause sunburn on skin with the sunscreen on, as a multiple of the amount required without the sunscreen.[6] There is a popular oversimplification of how SPF determines how long one can stay in the sun. For example, many users believe that, if they normally get sunburn in one hour, then an SPF 15 sunscreen allows them to stay in the sun fifteen hours (i.e. fifteen times longer) without getting sunburn. This would be true if the intensity of UV radiation were the same for the whole fifteen hours as in the one hour, but this is not normally the case. Intensity of solar radiation varies considerably with time of day. During early morning and late afternoon, the sun's radiation intensity is diminished since it must pass through more of the Earth's atmosphere while it is near the horizon.

In practice, the protection from a particular sunscreen depends, besides on SPF, on factors such as:
The skin type of the user.
The amount applied and frequency of re-application.
Activities in which one engages (for example, swimming leads to a loss of sunscreen from the skin).
Amount of sunscreen the skin has absorbed.

The SPF is an imperfect measure of skin damage because invisible damage and skin aging are also caused by ultraviolet type A (UVA, wavelength 320 to 400 nm), which does not cause reddening or pain. Conventional sunscreen blocks very little UVA radiation relative to the nominal SPF; broad-spectrum sunscreens are designed to protect against both UVB and UVA.[7][8][9] According to a 2004 study, UVA also causes DNA damage to cells deep within the skin, increasing the risk of malignant melanomas.[10] Even some products labeled "broad-spectrum UVA/UVB protection" do not provide good protection against UVA rays.[11] The best UVA protection is provided by products that contain zinc oxide, avobenzone, and ecamsule[citation needed]. Titanium dioxide probably gives good protection, but does not completely cover the entire UV-A spectrum, as recent research suggests that zinc oxide is superior to titanium dioxide at wavelengths between 340 and 380 nm.[12]

Owing to consumer confusion over the real degree and duration of protection offered, labeling restrictions are in force in several countries. In the EU sunscreen labels can only go up to SPF 50+ (actually indicating a SPF of 60 or higher)[13] while Australia's upper limit is 30+.[14] In the 2007 and 2011 draft rules, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) proposed a maximum SPF label of 50, to limit unrealistic claims.[15][16]

Others have proposed restricting the active ingredients to an SPF of no more than 50, due to lack of evidence that higher dosages provide more meaningful protection (especially due to the logarithmic nature of the scale).[17]

There is a chart on this thread that tells you which types of sunscreen gives which type of protection:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6455403&highlight=uva#6455403

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:45 pm

rileygirl wrote:

sandooch wrote:

Any recommendations?

If she doesn't like the Skinceuticals, and she likes a faint rose scent, try Pratima. I have dry skin now and this is my favorite sunscreen.

Ooo! I'll have to look into that. Both my mom and me love the smell of roses. This is the one you are talking about, right?

Neem Rose Face Sunscreen SPF30

Ingredients: IONIZED WATER, NON-NANO MICRONIZED ZINC OXIDE 18.6%, ORGANIC EXTRACTS OF NEEM, BRAHMI, SHATAVARI, LICORICE, VITAMIN E, LECITHIN, ORGANIC ESSENTIAL OIL OF ROSE, XANTHAN GUM

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 pm

That is the one, sandooch!

free skin care · Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:37 pm

jom wrote:

BCgirl wrote:

How much zinc should i be looking for in a sunscreen?

I think at least 18%.

Jom, do you have any idea where that 18% zinc oxide number comes from? Somehow I think it's very wrong as a "blanket" figure (given today's technology), but I see it repeated over and over on various threads.

free skin care · Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:56 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

jom wrote:

BCgirl wrote:

How much zinc should i be looking for in a sunscreen?

I think at least 18%.

Jom, do you have any idea where that 18% zinc oxide number comes from? Somehow I think it's very wrong as a "blanket" figure (given today's technology), but I see it repeated over and over on various threads.

That is a number that has just stuck in my head from several years ago when I was researching zinc oxide sunscreens. I have used the same sunscreen for over 2 years. I'm not sure where I got the number from. But I just did a quick search and it looks like your sunscreen should have at least 5% ZO. http://skincare-news.com/a-2286-Zinc_Oxide.aspx

Of course I still think the higher the percent the better protected you are.

free skin care · Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:01 pm

jom wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

jom wrote:

BCgirl wrote:

How much zinc should i be looking for in a sunscreen?

I think at least 18%.

Jom, do you have any idea where that 18% zinc oxide number comes from? Somehow I think it's very wrong as a "blanket" figure (given today's technology), but I see it repeated over and over on various threads.

That is a number that has just stuck in my head from several years ago when I was researching zinc oxide sunscreens. I have used the same sunscreen for over 2 years. I'm not sure where I got the number from. But I just did a quick search and it looks like your sunscreen should have at least 5% ZO. http://skincare-news.com/a-2286-Zinc_Oxide.aspx

Of course I still think the higher the percent the better protected you are.

That 5% seems low to me also,but the 18% may well be close. From the link you provided jom:

Derm Physical UV Sun Block SPF 32, which contains 18.5 percent zinc oxide and is also gentle enough for daily use.

free skin care · Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:08 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

jom wrote:

BCgirl wrote:

How much zinc should i be looking for in a sunscreen?

I think at least 18%.

Jom, do you have any idea where that 18% zinc oxide number comes from? Somehow I think it's very wrong as a "blanket" figure (given today's technology), but I see it repeated over and over on various threads.

Here is another example, just one of the three Burnout Sunscreens but I do believe they all have an SPF of 30 (I KNOW 2 that I own do) so I assume the percentage of zinc oxide would be consistent in all formulas.

I also would keep in mind there are various ZO's available that may account for slight variations eg micronized, nano-sized, invisible, and regular to name most I am familiar with.

BurnOut - Clean and Clear Zinc Oxide Sunblock
Zinc Oxide 18.6%, Deionized water, Capric Triglycerides, Glycerin, Sorbitol, Imperta Cylindrica (Root) Extract, Caprylyl Glycol, Lecithin, Arabidopsis Extract, Plankton Extract, Aloe Vera, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Citric Acid

free skin care · Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:37 am

jom wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

jom wrote:

BCgirl wrote:

How much zinc should i be looking for in a sunscreen?

I think at least 18%.

Jom, do you have any idea where that 18% zinc oxide number comes from? Somehow I think it's very wrong as a "blanket" figure (given today's technology), but I see it repeated over and over on various threads.

That is a number that has just stuck in my head from several years ago when I was researching zinc oxide sunscreens. I have used the same sunscreen for over 2 years. I'm not sure where I got the number from. But I just did a quick search and it looks like your sunscreen should have at least 5% ZO. http://skincare-news.com/a-2286-Zinc_Oxide.aspx

Of course I still think the higher the percent the better protected you are.

I don't know if 5% ZO on it's own is sufficient; might be okay if combined with a second sunscreen ingredient. That's just my hunch; I don't have any references to support that statement. But I can give you a few concrete examples of combined physical sunscreens that contain low percentages of sunscreen ingredients:

- Neutrogena Pure & Free Liquid (SPF 50): Titanium Dioxide 5 %, Zinc Oxide 3 %
http://www.drugstore.com/neutrogena-pure-and-free-liquid-daily-sunblock-spf-50/qxp328504?catid=159098

- Aveeno Active Naturals Natural Protection Mineral Block Sunscreen Lotion (SPF 30): Titanium Dioxide 4.3%, Zinc Oxide 3%
http://www.drugstore.com/aveeno-active-naturals-natural-protection-mineral-block-sunscreen-lotion-spf-30/qxp328496

- Skinceuticals Sheer Physical UV Defense (SPF 50): Zinc Oxide 5%, Titanium Dioxide 6%
http://www.dermstore.com/product_Sheer+Physical+UV+Defense+SPF+50+_27279.htm

I haven't tried any of these personally so I can't comment on how well they work. They are all considered broad spectrum protection for both UVA and UVB (SPF only relates to UVB). Normally I would be suspicious of a sunscreen with such low percentages of active ingredients and high SPF numbers. But Neutrogena, Johnson & Johnson (owners of Aveeno) and L'Oreal (owners of Skinceuticals) are industry leaders in the sunscreen market. I am very confident their sunscreens conform to established standards (that's my personal bias). I think the formulating technology of sunscreens has changed dramatically in the past few years, and that 18% ZO number no longer applies as a general rule. More ZO isn't necessarily better protection either (look at the above examples).

Sorry for going off topic Sandooch; I hope your mom enjoys her Skinceuticals (or Pratima if you decide to order that one next time). For a night moisturizer, have you considered ROC (for Retinol and a small amount of Vitamin C)? I've used this one in the distant past but found it too "greasy" for my skin, perhaps your mom would like it:

http://www.drugstore.com/roc-retinol-correxion-deep-wrinkle-night-cream/qxp88061?catid=98080

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:57 am

AFAIK the 18% zinc recommendation dovetails with official guidelines in many countries to use at least a factor 30 sunscreen. Nano might give better protection at a lower percentage but that is not often recommended on EDS or SCT.

Titanium dioxide seems to be controversial, TBH I haven't done sufficient research to give a convincing argument either way. I have chosen to use it myself in order to get a cosmetically acceptable product with a high factor (SPF 50).

Chart here that some might find helpful, click on 'detailed description'.
http://stores.skinessentialactives.com/-strse-113/Zinc-Oxide-Coated--dsh-Invisible/Detail.bok

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:08 am

Lacy53 wrote:

L'Oreal (owners of Skinceuticals)

When did L'Oreal buy Skinceuticals? This is the first I've heard of it.

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:50 am

jom wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

L'Oreal (owners of Skinceuticals)

When did L'Oreal buy Skinceuticals? This is the first I've heard of it.

2005, according to Wiki. There is a thread about it somewhere on EDS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkinCeuticals

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:11 am

Investigative report
The sun protection factor (SPF) inadequately
defines broad spectrum photoprotection:
demonstration using skin reconstructed in vitro
exposed to UVA, UVB
or UV-solar simulated radiation
Françoise BERNERD
Corinne VIOUX
François LEJEUNE
Daniel ASSELINEAU
L’Oréal Recherche, C. Zviak Centre,
90 rue du Général Roguet, 92583 Clichy,
France
Reprints: F. Bernerd
Fax: (+33) 1 47 56 79 65.
Email:
fbernerd@recherche.loreal.com
Article accepted on 11/02/03
Wavelength specific biological damage has been previously identified
in human skin reconstructed in vitro. Sunburn cell and pyrimidine
dimers were found after UVB exposure, and alterations of dermal
fibroblasts after UVA exposure. These damages permitted us to
discriminate UVB and UVA single absorbers. The present study shows
that these biological effects can be obtained simultaneously by a
combined UVB + UVA exposure using ultraviolet solar simulated light
(UV-SSR), which represents a relevant UV source. In addition, the
protection afforded by two broad spectrum sunscreen complex formulations
was assessed after topical application. These two formulations
displayed the same sun protection factor but different UVA protection
factors determined by the persistent pigment darkening (PPD) method.
Dose response experiments of UVA or UV-SSR showed that the
preparation with the highest PF-UVA provided a better protection with
regard to dermal damage compared to the other formulation. Using an
original UVB source to obtain the UVB portion of SSR spectrum, the
preparations provided the same protection. This study strikingly
illustrates the fact that the photoprotection afforded by two sunscreen
formulations having similar SPF values is not equal with regard to
dermal damage related to photoaging.
Key words: skin equivalent, UV radiation, sunscreens, dermal damages
The safety of nanosized particles in titanium dioxide– and zinc oxide–based sunscreens

Pratima gets many excellent reviews.

SPF is half the story, the other part is different labs testing same SS will get radically different numbers. I prefer the boring inert ZnO, particle size blends can cover the UVA UVB spectrum rather efficiently without the free radical production of many of the organic SS.

The EU ruling governing the definition of nano comes into effect in 2013.

Lack of Significant Dermal Penetration of Titanium Dioxide from Sunscreen Formulations Containing Nano- and Submicron-Size TiO2 Particles

SS = most important.

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:50 am

DragoN wrote:

SS = most important.

DragoN, what is your feeling about the percent of ZO needed in a product for maximum efficacy?

Do you think 5% is just as good as 18%?

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:19 am

Quote:

Do you think 5% is just as good as 18%?

No. If they're doing that , they have it paired up with an organic.

My skin doesn't tolerate the organic SS's. Eyes, burn, skin itches and pretty useless to me.

My 20% SS was the one I had tested but I wear a 25%. That's about the only time you will ever read me write, More is better.

Primary particle size and final particle size play an important part.
ZnO is a very effective UVA attenuator. As is TiO2,but Ti02 has forms that tend to be photocatalytic and it's just white as sin on my face anyways.

When they write 'non nano' you kind of have to wonder if they are referring to the P.S or the P.P.S. My money is on P.S. As it is definitely nano otherwise. Then we get into whose definition of nano remains salient? And I really don't care.

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:26 am

DragoN wrote:

Quote:

Do you think 5% is just as good as 18%?

No. If they're doing that , they have it paired up with an organic.

My skin doesn't tolerate the organic SS's. Eyes, burn, skin itches and pretty useless to me.

My 20% SS was the one I had tested but I wear a 25%. That's about the only time you will ever read me write, More is better.

Primary particle size and final particle size play an important part.
ZnO is a very effective UVA attenuator. As is TiO2,but Ti02 has forms that tend to be photocatalytic and it's just white as sin on my face anyways.

When they write 'non nano' you kind of have to wonder if they are referring to the P.S or the P.P.S. My money is on P.S. As it is definitely nano otherwise. Then we get into whose definition of nano remains salient? And I really don't care.

What is P.S. and P.P.S? And, what do you think about zinclear?

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:42 am

jom wrote:

DragoN wrote:

Quote:

Do you think 5% is just as good as 18%?

No. If they're doing that , they have it paired up with an organic.

My skin doesn't tolerate the organic SS's. Eyes, burn, skin itches and pretty useless to me.

My 20% SS was the one I had tested but I wear a 25%. That's about the only time you will ever read me write, More is better.

Primary particle size and final particle size play an important part.
ZnO is a very effective UVA attenuator. As is TiO2,but Ti02 has forms that tend to be photocatalytic and it's just white as sin on my face anyways.

When they write 'non nano' you kind of have to wonder if they are referring to the P.S or the P.P.S. My money is on P.S. As it is definitely nano otherwise. Then we get into whose definition of nano remains salient? And I really don't care.

What is P.S. and P.P.S? And, what do you think about zinclear?

Unless I am way off,

P.S.= Particle Size

P.P.S.= Primary Particle Size

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:18 pm

I have pulled out some sunscreens that i have at home from really good brands.

Skinceuticals sheer physical UV defense SPF 50: has 5% Zinc Oxide

Elta UV defense SPF 45: has 9% zinc oxide

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