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Sat May 05, 2012 1:16 pm  |
| Quote: |
6. Conclusion
Recent evidences indicate that heat may be one of the environmental factors to induce premature skin aging (thermal skin aging) (Fig. 7): (1) heat exposure to human skin stimulates the expression of MMP-1, MMP-3, and MMP-12. This increased expression of MMPs by heat will degrade the extracellular matrix proteins such as collagen and elastic fibers in human skin; (2) heat also regulates the synthesis of elastin and fibrillin, affects the formation of elastic fibers in human skin, and contributes to the development of solar elastosis; (3) heat regulates the production of many cytokines, including TGF-b, IL-6, and IL-12 and then, these cytokines regulate the expressions of extracellular matrix proteins in human skin; (4) heat is an important physical stimulus on human skin, just like UV, which can cause angiogenesis in human skin. Therefore, in addition to sunscreen, new strategies to block heat-induced skin aging (thermal aging) need to be developed to more effectively prevent skin aging. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat May 05, 2012 1:35 pm |
We found that the
temperature of human skin, measured inside the dermis by a needle-type thermometer, was
increased to 40—43 C in direct summer midday
sunlight within 15—20 min (personal observation).
That is equal to 40C=104F to 43C=109.4F rather high? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat May 05, 2012 1:40 pm |
| Yes at first I thought that too, but then I realised sunlight/heat is a constant influx of energy. Sort of like on a warm (not hot) day you can bake an egg on a car's roof if it has been standing in the sun long enough. |
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Sat May 05, 2012 1:44 pm |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| Yes at first I thought that too, but then I realised sunlight/heat is a constant influx of energy. Sort of like on a warm (not hot) day you can bake an egg on a car's roof if it has been standing in the sun long enough. |
Exactly, but I think we for the most part don't expose our faces to the sun or anything for those lengths of time.
I was thinking we might find the same damage resulting from extended wind or cold exposure based on people that spend time out in the elements? |
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Sat May 05, 2012 6:18 pm |
| So what does this mean for devices like STOP that generate heat? |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat May 05, 2012 6:27 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| So what does this mean for devices like STOP that generate heat? |
Not sure about the STOP however the last page on the Infrared Radiation - LED Lights thread has a number of studies posted about IR exposure and heat damaging our skin.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35559 |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat May 05, 2012 7:20 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| So what does this mean for devices like STOP that generate heat? |
Not sure about the STOP however the last page on the Infrared Radiation - LED Lights thread has a number of studies posted about IR exposure and heat damaging our skin.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35559 |
I saw that! Hopefully DragoN will weigh in on this thread. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat May 05, 2012 7:54 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| So what does this mean for devices like STOP that generate heat? |
FR devices designed for at home use should not heat the skin above 37C. The STOP has that built in feature, that turns it off automatically when the skin temperature reaches that point..
I'm not sure about UK products, but I believe this is in the FAQ where STOP is sold. FDA guidelines are readily available for both thermal (RF, IPL etc) and non-thermal (LED) devices. |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sat May 05, 2012 9:31 pm |
Thank you Lotusesther
| Quote: |
2.3. Effects of IR on MMPs expression and
wrinkle formation in hairless mice
It has been reported that chronic IR exposure can cause pronounced elastosis in mouse skin, which mimics the damage caused by UV [10]. The heat generated by IR may be involved in the skin photoaging process. On more prolonged heat exposure, severe elastic fiber hyperplasia develops, which extends deeply into the dermis, in combination with
the degeneration of dermal collagen [8,9]. Recently, we have demonstrated that chronic IR induced skin wrinkles in hairless mice after the 15th exposure week, and that IR augmented UV-induced wrinkle formation (unpublished data). |
Heat, kicks off the whole cytokine response and then some. End result. Not what you were hoping for. Over time, you will have the opposite effect. That's the heat aspect. Low level photons also damage DNA. Proven in vitro. In vivo will show same if and when it is directly studied.
43 C is all you need to kill cancer cells. But first you target, then irradiate and hope for the minimum collateral damage outside the voxel of interest. There is always collateral damage.
Bethany, I don't cherry pick my Facts and run rough shod over them to bolster sales for products to "minimize" the damage. Really not my thing.
Targeted treatments aren't perfect. These light devices are random chaos. |
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If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sat May 05, 2012 10:24 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| So what does this mean for devices like STOP that generate heat? |
FR devices designed for at home use should not heat the skin above 37C. The STOP has that built in feature, that turns it off automatically when the skin temperature reaches that point..
I'm not sure about UK products, but I believe this is in the FAQ where STOP is sold. FDA guidelines are readily available for both thermal (RF, IPL etc) and non-thermal (LED) devices. |
Not quite right. This is from the STOP thread:
| bethany wrote: |
Here are some answers to some questions I asked Colleen (and the doctor) at Ultragen...if anyone has any follow up questions, they can contact Colleen at colleen_c@ultra-gen.com.
| Quote: |
| The extent of collagen shrinkage and remodeling depends on both temperature and exposure time. With TriPollar technology we don’t use high/ aggressive power as other technologies do, therefore the process of heating collagen fibers is gradual and the outcome is cumulative. It is impossible to measure the temperature in the dermal layer, but the TriPollar treatment is designed to be in the safe and effective heating range that stimulate collagen remodeling without potential damage that may be caused by high temperature. The STOP tries to maintain a temperature of 40°C for treatment, the orange indicator light lets you know that you have reached the optimal treatment temperature and if the temperature rise above this the built in safety sensor automatically turns the heat off until cooled to appropriate temperature for working is reached again. |
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This is from the Q&A on the WinHealth website:
Q.31: What is the operational temperature at which the Stop Clinical Skin Renewal Device works?
A.31: When the Stop is switched on and the green light shines, the temperature is 36 degrees C. When the orange light comes on, the temperature is 38 degrees C. When the green light begins to flicker, thus indicating activation of safety mechanism, the temperature reached 40 degrees C. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sun May 06, 2012 3:49 am |
I think first of all, this means good news for the sun hat business. This summer I am going to look glam with a wide brimmed hat and big sunglasses, and make a nice spritzer from the DIY section here to keep cool under any circumstance! And I will invest in a gadget, a lovely Spanish fan (also great to communicate flirtatious messages with).
In this research they speak of temperature INSIDE the skin. The surface may feel cool to the touch (sweat etc.) but that does not mean that heat has not accumulated in deeper layers (where the damage is being done). My problem with devices is, I don't know how or even if they can measure and respond to temperature in the deeper layer. I guess that differs per model and brand, but that keeping to the advised exposure times can be critical.
Apart from devices and such, I thought this info is important to everyone with the summer coming. Even the best ZO sunscreen can not protect you from heat, so keeping to the shade and staying indoors around noon time even with the best of sunscreens is good practice. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 10:37 am |
Does anyone know anything about the effects of cold on the skin? I know I have heard a few things on some type of "freeze" therapy but I never looked into that.
Thanks for posting about this, Lotusesther. Very interesting information on heat/aging. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 2:33 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| So what does this mean for devices like STOP that generate heat? |
FR devices designed for at home use should not heat the skin above 37C. The STOP has that built in feature, that turns it off automatically when the skin temperature reaches that point..
I'm not sure about UK products, but I believe this is in the FAQ where STOP is sold. FDA guidelines are readily available for both thermal (RF, IPL etc) and non-thermal (LED) devices. |
Not quite right. This is from the STOP thread:
| bethany wrote: |
Here are some answers to some questions I asked Colleen (and the doctor) at Ultragen...if anyone has any follow up questions, they can contact Colleen at colleen_c@ultra-gen.com.
| Quote: |
| The extent of collagen shrinkage and remodeling depends on both temperature and exposure time. With TriPollar technology we don’t use high/ aggressive power as other technologies do, therefore the process of heating collagen fibers is gradual and the outcome is cumulative. It is impossible to measure the temperature in the dermal layer, but the TriPollar treatment is designed to be in the safe and effective heating range that stimulate collagen remodeling without potential damage that may be caused by high temperature. The STOP tries to maintain a temperature of 40°C for treatment, the orange indicator light lets you know that you have reached the optimal treatment temperature and if the temperature rise above this the built in safety sensor automatically turns the heat off until cooled to appropriate temperature for working is reached again. |
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This is from the Q&A on the WinHealth website:
Q.31: What is the operational temperature at which the Stop Clinical Skin Renewal Device works?
A.31: When the Stop is switched on and the green light shines, the temperature is 36 degrees C. When the orange light comes on, the temperature is 38 degrees C. When the green light begins to flicker, thus indicating activation of safety mechanism, the temperature reached 40 degrees C. |
I know what is in the literature... What I shared about 37C is what I was "told" via a phone call, when I complained of damage I sustained on my neck after 11 treatments with the STOP. I thought perhaps I had a defective device that didn't shut off as it was supposed to.. I was assured that couldn't be the case because "the absolute max the skin is exposed to is 40C, but the device powers down at 37C to avoid mishaps".
Of course I have no proof of this, but the call came in from Scotland after I posted pictures of my acute damage on the STOP thread. (A few *new* members also logged on as I recall to tar and feather me... ) Alas, they were never heard from again... |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Wed May 09, 2012 3:33 pm |
I never expected when I posted this article with the oncoming summer in mind that it would end up in a discussion about gadgets.
Most important thing, to me, seems to be that you have to be alert to your skin temperature, whether you're in the sun or using a machine. I personally never realised that heat in itself could be so damaging, in any circumstance (I love to cook and am frequently hanging over hot steaming pans and sizzling frying stuff. That does make my face feel tight sometimes, and now I know it's wiser to keep a bit more distance and cool off with a bit of water or a moist cloth every now and then).
Another bit of bad news for sunbathers though. Too bad. Better go to forest areas instead of the beach if you want to keep your skin happy! |
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Wed May 09, 2012 3:57 pm |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
I never expected when I posted this article with the oncoming summer in mind that it would end up in a discussion about gadgets.
Most important thing, to me, seems to be that you have to be alert to your skin temperature, whether you're in the sun or using a machine. I personally never realised that heat in itself could be so damaging, in any circumstance (I love to cook and am frequently hanging over hot steaming pans and sizzling frying stuff. That does make my face feel tight sometimes, and now I know it's wiser to keep a bit more distance and cool off with a bit of water or a moist cloth every now and then).
Another bit of bad news for sunbathers though. Too bad. Better go to forest areas instead of the beach if you want to keep your skin happy! |
Heat unfolds and damages proteins. Skin is made of proteins. Cytokines are proteins. Bad. Heat also induces heat shock proteins. HSPs influence many other cellular processes in the inflammatory and immune skin response. There is a link between HSPs and a panolply of human skin disease characterized by inflammation and proliferation. Bad. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:20 pm |
| Bad. But on the other hand, in all these things we seem to forget that skin is not prepared leather but a living, breathing organ equipped with multiple self repairing mechanisms. Mild damage will solve itself, prolonged intense damage will not. Balance is key - and don't forget we need sunlight too, even if it ages our skin. HSP are basically part of the defense system - point is to try and find the point where this reaction takes place and stay just a tad below it. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:31 pm |
Well I guess we all better stay out of Saunas, Hot Tubs, Personal Spas, and turn off the hot water heater and freeze in Cold Showers?
Poor people who live in hot climates with no air conditioning they should be mutated out of existence by now?
All residents in Dry Hot climates evacuate immediately unless you can afford air conditioning? Poof there goes Arizona and a good portion of Southern California?
Never go camping in the heat of summer?
Tell the Finnish and many Scandinavians to stop those hot Saunas taken daily (sometimes 2X per day)?
On and on and on......How has the human race survived for so darn long? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:41 pm |
 They survived gnarlily
Think. Traditionally women who had the opportunity to do so protected their skin from direct sunlight and heat, with hats and parasols. The women who worked on the fields were the ones with a tan, and the ones who aged rapidly (also probably because of poor diet and having way too many babies in too short a time).
Saunas and hammams all use heat, and afterwards your skin does feel great. Maybe it's the cooling down afterwards? Or a nice balance between heat shock on one hand, but losing lots of toxins and stress on the other side?
We don't know. But sunbathing, baking on the beach, a very new thing really, is not good for the skin and it's not just the UV that is doing the damage. I guess the whole point is, to listen to your skin and to take it seriously when you start to feel overheated and tight because that signals you are overdoing things. In a natural environment, animals always respond to that kind of stimuli. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:47 pm |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
They survived gnarlily
Think. Traditionally women who had the opportunity to do so protected their skin from direct sunlight and heat, with hats and parasols. The women who worked on the fields were the ones with a tan, and the ones who aged rapidly (also probably because of poor diet and having way too many babies in too short a time).
Saunas and hammams all use heat, and afterwards your skin does feel great. Maybe it's the cooling down afterwards? Or a nice balance between heat shock on one hand, but losing lots of toxins and stress on the other side?
We don't know. But sunbathing, baking on the beach, a very new thing really, is not good for the skin and it's not just the UV that is doing the damage. I guess the whole point is, to listen to your skin and to take it seriously when you start to feel overheated and tight because that signals you are overdoing things. In a natural environment, animals always respond to that kind of stimuli. |
Totally agree about the sun exposure aging the skin, heat however I am still not 100% convinced, I mean seriously there are many cultures in very hot climates who are still around and some go half naked!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 09, 2012 6:26 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Totally agree about the sun exposure aging the skin, heat however I am still not 100% convinced, I mean seriously there are many cultures in very hot climates who are still around and some go half naked! |
I'm getting sick and tired of all this stuff - we're all becoming too frightened to do ANYTHING - maybe we should all just exist in a bubble! |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed May 09, 2012 6:30 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Totally agree about the sun exposure aging the skin, heat however I am still not 100% convinced, I mean seriously there are many cultures in very hot climates who are still around and some go half naked! |
I'm getting sick and tired of all this stuff - we're all becoming too frightened to do ANYTHING - maybe we should all just exist in a bubble! |
I tend to agree and that was my point in my post a few up! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 09, 2012 10:23 pm |
| Thanks for sharing. Interesting article. Do you think it includes the level of heat used for hot yoga? |
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