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havana8
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Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Sat May 05, 2012 11:42 am  |
To keep things together and on topic, the discussion on worst ingredients has been split from the Let's Make a List / Name That Fantastic Active thread found here: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6459733#6459733
| DrJ wrote: |
| Is it time to come up with a top 10 best (and bottom 10 worst) ingredients? |
| jom wrote: |
And worst:
DMAE
Syn-Ake |
| DrJ wrote: |
And worst:
DMAE
Syn-Ake (SYNAKE OIL)
ARGIRILENE
TEPRENONE
UNBALANCED GROWTH FACTORS (egf)
ALL PEPTIDES FROM LIPOTEC |
| foxe wrote: |
And worst:
DMAE I would like to know more about the placement of this one here.
Syn-Ake (SYNAKE OIL)
ARGIRILENE
TEPRENONE
UNBALANCED GROWTH FACTORS (egf)
ALL PEPTIDES FROM LIPOTEC |
| DrJ wrote: |
Add to the 20 worst:
GATTEFOSSE with Gatuline® Radiance, a new powerful anti-ageing active ingredient which acts on skin microcirculation, improving skin nutrition and giving more luminosity and vitality.
WATCH OUT CAPILLARIES!
Ichimaru Pharcos Co., Ltd with Ougon Liquid B, which has a high inhibitory activity of CYP1B1 induction by tobacco extract. This can be used to block environmental stress factors including UV.
SMOKE IT OR PUT IN ON ?
IRB with Buddleja davidii stems G™, which contains 20% Butterfly Bush stem cells and minimum 0,2% of Verbascoside, a potent secondary metabolite able to protect the skin against UVA damage.
BECAUSE BUTTERFLIES HAVE NO WRINKLES!
LIPOTEC with Hyanify™, an exopolysaccharide, obtained through biotechnological processes from a marine bacterial strain that fights against dehydration and wrinkles.
BECAUSE BACTERIA HAVE NO WRINKLES!
Mibelle Biochemistry with DermCom, which stimulates the communication between epidermal and dermal cells to help boost collagen and elastin production that renews the skin’s resilience and firmness.
SOUNDS SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE A CYTOKINE - CALL THE PATENT ATTORNEY
Unipex Innovations – Lucas Meyer Cosmetics with Progeline™, a three amino-acids peptide biomimetic of a Elafin, an elastase inhibitor produced by keratinocyte which helps to fight the ageing process. Plus ADIPOFILL™, a new anti-ageing ingredient derived for vegetable glucose obtained by biotechnology.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT TO KEEP GNARLED UP HARD AS ROCK ELASTIN AROUND TO IMPROVE YOUR APPEARANCE AND THEN FEED IT SUGAR BECAUSE THSATS HOW YOU MAKE CROSS LINKS FOR EVEN BETTER GNARLING |
| brierrose wrote: |
DrJ- Could you give your reasons for DMAE being on your worst list? If you've already discussed Dmae I can't seem to find where.
I know Dr. Pickard states it's okay at the right Ph but I would be interested to know your evaluation. Thanks. |
| DragoN wrote: |
| Quote: |
| BECAUSE BUTTERFLIES HAVE NO WRINKLES! |
D'Orientine, backed up with studies about the preferred dates in the Middle east. That's another winner. Prettier pdf went up after I shredded it.
Botaderm? Case study 1. Improved hydration? whoo. In glycerin, I believe it was.
Pephaprotect? Because watermelons have lots of water? So this will do same for skin. Spare me
ATPeptide, of zero to back it up. Vinciene has too many of these being pumped out. GRAS = Good to go.
Apple stem cells , PhytoStemCell Malus Domestica provides revolutionary money wasting performance for zero rejuvenation. |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Sat May 05, 2012 1:42 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| brierrose wrote: |
DrJ- Could you give your reasons for DMAE being on your worst list? If you've already discussed Dmae I can't seem to find where.
I know Dr. Pickard states it's okay at the right Ph but I would be interested to know your evaluation. Thanks. |
It's actually jom's list. Let's ask her. |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
I'm sorry, written language is one-dimensional. I can't see your faces or hear the tone of your voices, so it's becoming a challenge for me to discern which, if any, of these comments are sarcasm.
Sugar...which I thought was a glycating agent, is supposedly bad for skin - not?
And none of these have independent studies showing effectiveness?::
Lipochroman-6
Decorinyl
D'Orientine S
Tego Pep 4-17
Pepha Tight
Trylagen
So....that leaves Matrixyl as the only proven effective peptide? (I realize some on the list are not considered peptides).
Do I lump these with all the unproven gadgets as well? ...the only proven gadget was some kind of LED combined with green tea topical or is that my faulty memory?
BFG - only on her second margarita of the afternoon |
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Sat May 05, 2012 4:02 pm |
With all the controversy about DMAE that's the first time I've heard of it being in paint remover 
Sounds like the jury is still out on it's safety. Thanks jom. |
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Sat May 05, 2012 4:12 pm |
| brierrose wrote: |
With all the controversy about DMAE that's the first time I've heard of it being in paint remover
Sounds like the jury is still out on it's safety. Thanks jom. |
That is why I posted many ingredients might be surprising, here is an example of something most use.
Niche, non-food uses
Ascorbic acid is easily oxidized and so is used as a reductant in photographic developer solutions (among others) and as a preservative.
In fluorescence microscopy and related fluorescence-based techniques, ascorbic acid can be used as an antioxidant to increase fluorescent signal and chemically retard dye photobleaching.[14]
It is also commonly used to remove dissolved metal stains, such as iron, from fiberglass swimming pool surfaces.
In plastic manufacturing, ascorbic acid can be used to assemble molecular chains more quickly and with less waste than traditional synthesis methods.[15]
Heroin users are known to use ascorbic acid to dissolve heroin in water, so that it can be injected.[16]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascorbic_acid |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat May 05, 2012 4:42 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| brierrose wrote: |
With all the controversy about DMAE that's the first time I've heard of it being in paint remover
Sounds like the jury is still out on it's safety. Thanks jom. |
That is why I posted many ingredients might be surprising, here is an example of something most use.
Niche, non-food uses
Ascorbic acid is easily oxidized and so is used as a reductant in photographic developer solutions (among others) and as a preservative.
In fluorescence microscopy and related fluorescence-based techniques, ascorbic acid can be used as an antioxidant to increase fluorescent signal and chemically retard dye photobleaching.[14]
It is also commonly used to remove dissolved metal stains, such as iron, from fiberglass swimming pool surfaces.
In plastic manufacturing, ascorbic acid can be used to assemble molecular chains more quickly and with less waste than traditional synthesis methods.[15]
Heroin users are known to use ascorbic acid to dissolve heroin in water, so that it can be injected.[16]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascorbic_acid |
Yes I realize that because it's used in paint remover doesn't necessarily mean it's unsafe. It appears that there still isn't anything definitive one way or the other yet. Thanks DM. |
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Sat May 05, 2012 4:47 pm |
I tend to agree on the DMAE, I don't use it.
I just do know many skin care ingredients used in a higher concentration also have industrial uses.  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun May 06, 2012 7:36 am |
Sulphate surfactants: known irritants which damage the skin barrier of healthy individuals at concentrations as low as 1%, even in an emollient base. Contributory/ aggravating factor in various forms of dermatitis, psoriasis and acne. SLS is commonly used in studies to induce irritation! There is also research into oral health and sulphate surfactants in toothpaste IIRC. A handful of the many studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21443526
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20649794
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21564067
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19467032
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19366370
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18007579 |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 8:02 am |
| Benzoyl peroxide |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun May 06, 2012 8:17 am |
Torricelumn  |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:00 pm |
| I guess it goes without saying, but how about anything with "soap" in it? |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:02 pm |
| We should do another list of 10 bad things for your skin other than ingredients. Like cold Canadian winters, low humidity, that sort of thing. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:06 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| We should do another list of 10 bad things for your skin other than ingredients. Like cold Canadian winters, low humidity, that sort of thing. |
Heated and air conditioned air inside! I love having a built in humidifier attached to my system.
I also have a clean air unit attached.
Chlorine in our water.
Fluoride? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 3:33 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| We should do another list of 10 bad things for your skin other than ingredients. Like cold Canadian winters, low humidity, that sort of thing. |
Heated and air conditioned air inside! I love having a built in humidifier attached to my system.
I also have a clean air unit attached.
Chlorine in our water.
Fluoride? |
I guess I need to stop using toothpaste as my day cream? |
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Mon May 07, 2012 4:47 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| I guess it goes without saying, but how about anything with "soap" in it? |
Pure soap is made from oils. Of course, in olden days it was made from whale oil but these days it is usually made from vegetable oils.
The cleansing bars that are sold now are not allowed to be called "soap" because they are not made from oils - this is where it becomes confusing. It is the "cleansing bars" that have given soap a bad name (incorrectly so). My point being that pure soap will not strip the skin like the cleansing bars.
I make my own shampoo using a combination of Dr. Bonner's Castile Soap, Apple Cider Vinegar and Aloe Vera Gel because regular shampoos make my scalp itch. Dr. Bonner's Castile Soap is made from Olive Oil. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon May 07, 2012 6:09 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
Pure soap is made from oils. Of course, in olden days it was made from whale oil but these days it is usually made from vegetable oils.
The cleansing bars that are sold now are not allowed to be called "soap" because they are not made from oils - this is where it becomes confusing. It is the "cleansing bars" that have given soap a bad name (incorrectly so). My point being that pure soap will not strip the skin like the cleansing bars.
I make my own shampoo using a combination of Dr. Bonner's Castile Soap, Apple Cider Vinegar and Aloe Vera Gel because regular shampoos make my scalp itch. Dr. Bonner's Castile Soap is made from Olive Oil. |
The oils are saponified with caustic soda so pure soap is highly alkaline and no longer emollient, Keliu. Handmade cold process bar soaps may be 'better' than commercial bar soaps because they tend to be superfatted, so the additional lipids provide a layer of protection against and somewhat dilute the highly alkaline soap. In some cases soap-free cleansing bars are gentler than traditional soaps because their pH is closer to that of skin. You are acidifying your soap base with vinegar, diluting it with water and adding aloe which has proven anti-inflammatory, humectant and healing properties. Notwithstanding, as an ingredient pure soap is a known irritant.
http://www.healthmegamall.com/Articles/BabeskinArticle71.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9625999
http://www.sophyto.com/pdfs/clinicals3.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3608584
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc1986/cc037n02/p00089-p00097.pdf |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 6:21 pm |
| Firefox - is Castille Soap different from standard soaps? The general consensus is that Castille Soap is safe, natural and environmentally friendly. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:00 pm |
I wonder if this can explain a little about the saponification process. Borrowed from this website
The old ingredient list showed the ingredients before they were made into soap, or saponified. But according to the USDA National Organic Program castile soaps are not allowed to use the word “saponified” in the ingredient list, and are not allowed to list the ingredients before they are processed (saponified). Instead, they are required to list the stuff that is in the soap AFTER it’s been saponified. Confused? Hang in there.
So, OK. We start with Organic coconut oil. In order for it to turn into pure, safe soap it has to go through saponification. Organic coconut oil that has been saponified, or processed with potassium hydroxide, changes into Organic potassium cocoate. There is no longer any potassium hydroxide in the soap after it’s been saponified. Citric acid is added to adjust the pH, and it changes in the process to potassium citrate. It all ends up as pure, safe soap. We don’t put “potassium hydroxide” on the label, because there is no potassium hydroxide in the soap. The potassium hydroxide created a chemical process, and the end product is saponifed Organic coconut oil, or castile soap. Same thing goes for Organic olive oil, which gets saponified and becomes Organic potassium olivate. We used to list what went into the soap kettle, as per our certifier, now we list what comes out of the soap kettle, as per our new certifier!
and another comment from a forum somewhere:
Finished, properly cured soap does not contain any lye; the chemical reaction (saponification) splits the sodium ion (Na) from the hydroxide ion (OH), as it likewise splits the lipid chains from the glycerol in the oils/fats used
It sounds like a good thing to add something like the ACV to your soap Keliu, if it lowers the pH. Looking around for info on the saponification process, it seems like citric acids are added often to castile soaps to lower the pH. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:11 pm |
| Thanks for that info Foxe. Everything that I've read about Castille Soap is positive so I'd be disappointed if that's not the case. The only concern is the alkalinity - but that's why the ACV is added. Anyway, my skin and hair seems to like it! |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:47 pm |
| I wonder if it's easy to change the akalinity of a castile soap by just adding something acidic to it? Wouldn't it do something detrimental to the base of the soap? |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:52 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
| I wonder if it's easy to change the akalinity of a castile soap by just adding something acidic to it? |
I would think so foxe, think of it as a pH adjuster, we see sodium hydroxide to raise acidic solutions and citric acid to lower alkaline solutions in many products and DIY potions. The Dr. Bronners is a liquid that Keliu is using, it would not work with a solid castile soap. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:56 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| foxe wrote: |
| I wonder if it's easy to change the akalinity of a castile soap by just adding something acidic to it? |
I would think so foxe, think of it as a pH adjuster, we see sodium hydroxide to raise acidic solutions and citric acid to lower alkaline solutions in many products and DIY potions. The Dr. Bronners is a liquid that Keliu is using, it would not work with a solid castile soap. |
Hmm - I'm trying out a castile soap right now (Keys Soap) and - knowing that the pH is high on it- I'd like to try to lower the pH of it a bit. On the other hand -it is a nice soap. I am seeing far fewer blackheads on my oily skin than I saw using cleansers that had a low pH to start with.
How do you think you could change the pH of a product like the Keys Soap? |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon May 07, 2012 8:04 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
Hmm - I'm trying out a castile soap right now (Keys Soap) and - knowing that the pH is high on it- I'd like to try to lower the pH of it a bit. On the other hand -it is a nice soap. I am seeing far fewer blackheads on my oily skin than I saw using cleansers that had a low pH to start with.
How do you think you could change the pH of a product like the Keys Soap? |
If you've been using the soap with no issues, I wouldn't worry about it. But I would be inclined to use a pH balancing toner after cleansing. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon May 07, 2012 8:06 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| foxe wrote: |
| I wonder if it's easy to change the akalinity of a castile soap by just adding something acidic to it? |
I would think so foxe, think of it as a pH adjuster, we see sodium hydroxide to raise acidic solutions and citric acid to lower alkaline solutions in many products and DIY potions. The Dr. Bronners is a liquid that Keliu is using, it would not work with a solid castile soap. |
Hmm - I'm trying out a castile soap right now (Keys Soap) and - knowing that the pH is high on it- I'd like to try to lower the pH of it a bit. On the other hand -it is a nice soap. I am seeing far fewer blackheads on my oily skin than I saw using cleansers that had a low pH to start with.
How do you think you could change the pH of a product like the Keys Soap? |
Is it a liquid soap like Dr. Bronners or a bar soap?
With a bar soap you would have to grate it down and dissolve it in distilled water and then adjust the pH not sure that would be worth the effort?
If it is liquid then I say it would be easy with either ACV or a bit of dissolved citric acid. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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