Effective Gadgets - electronic or otherwise
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free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 5:18 am

The biggest issue I have come across with gadgets or devices is that the only studies appear to have been performed by the seller.

Starting with definitions:

An effective gadget is one which can be used at home, with or without an associated topical serum, which has been independently proven to either stimulate collagen synthesis and/or reverse signs of photo-aging: pigmentation, texture issues, etc., which also has not been shown to have any deleterious effects on the skin.

Any that we know of?

As a start, I would suggest certain microneedling devices which have clinical studies and independent test results from multiple sources.

Others?

BFG

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 6:03 am

There are a list of references to published research for LED therapy on the LightStim site
http://www.lightstim.com/led-therapy-references.html

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 7:55 am

Safetox claims to have both company funded and independent clinical studies, though the detailed versions are only accessible if you are a physician registered on their website (any volunteers?).
http://www.safetoxbeauty.com/en/efficacy/wrinkle-reduction-facts-and-figures-5.html

But in this case I really don't need to read them since I know the product works...Safetox and the dermaroller are the only 2 gadgets I have seen significant improvement from since I joined EDS and started trying everything under the sun!

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 7:57 am

Firefox,

Ultrasound at first glance appears not a bad alternative, albeit the research does seems rather attractive with regards to various dermal improvement parameters. Skin laxity for one.

Multiple Pass Ultrasound Tightening of Skin Laxity of the Lower Face and Neck

http://www.drdayan.com/pdf/Publications/Effects-of-Low-Frequency-Ultrasound-on-Epidermal-and-Dermal-Structures.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17372061

Characterization of transdermal solute transport induced by low-frequency ultrasound in the hairless rat skin

The gadgets arrived...one for me, one for you...now to get busy on an ultrasound gel. The dingus can bounce particles 10cm deep in water, 1 Mhz. Checked out the "story" on titanium vs. Aluminum... Confused

Acoustic impedence;
..........(Kg/m2s x 106)
Titanium, 27.69
Aluminum 17.06
austenitic stainless Steel, 45.40
austenitic stainless Tin 24.20
Steel 39

Potential for conflicting numbers on that though. I'm not an electronics engineer. Somebody else will have to take a stab at that. I don't believe the Skindream titanium is worth the price, not even for the titanium.

Safetox: Bethany...how long did you use it before you noticed results? Just checked out the website...Pricey. But better than fillers or botox if that can be avoided.

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 10:23 am

The Ulthera based study was impressive. I wonder if any of the non-professional units even come close? I've been wondering about u/s for a while. I couldn't quite tell, DragoN... do you have this at home?

I'm still feeling my way with Safetox... It will be a few weeks before I am totally up to speed. Bethany I would love a list of the gadgets/ tools you've kicked to the curb (and why)!

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 11:00 am

Skindream Titanium is a total waste imho - no effect on my skin whatsoever.

I have heard good things/reviews about ultrasound devices from Lip2kiss customers (and company). I would like to see studies regarding long term impact/safety on muscle/ligaments tissues ( that is due to anecdotal evidence - crooked hands of salesmen demonstrating therapeutic Ultrasound equipment on their left hand - after years the hand differed substantially from the right).

I think Safetox is very effective, just wish it had a better build - rechargeable batteries, simpler electrodes. I am currently looking for US source for electrodes and commercial batteries. If anyone know - please, chime in.

I also found Slendertone for the face somewhat effective.

I like Vaculifters, but found a better vacuum cups set(in Europe); love Lyapko massager and like Yamuna ball (can be done with hands pressure).

I am also trying Refa Pro massager, like it, but am not sure regarding it's effectiveness.

Everything else is in a drawer collecting dust.

HTH

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 11:13 am

sigma wrote:

Skindream Titanium is a total waste imho - no effect on my skin whatsoever.

I have heard good things/reviews about ultrasound devices from Lip2kiss customers (and company). I would like to see studies regarding long term impact/safety on muscle/ligaments tissues ( that is due to anecdotal evidence - crooked hands of salesmen demonstrating therapeutic Ultrasound equipment on their left hand - after years the hand differed substantially from the right).

I think Safetox is very effective, just wish it had a better build - rechargeable batteries, simpler electrodes. I am currently looking for US source for electrodes and commercial batteries. If anyone know - please, chime in.

I also found Slendertone for the face somewhat effective.

I like Vaculifters, but found a better vacuum cups set(in Europe); love Lyapko massager and like Yamuna ball (can be done with hands pressure).

I am also trying Refa Pro massager, like it, but am not sure regarding it's effectiveness.

Everything else is in a drawer collecting dust.

HTH

Oh, my... crooked hands?!! YIKES!!

P.S. I am still very curious about the ReFa Pro... but if you're not seeing great results... hmmmmm.

P.P.S. what vacuum set did you find that you liked better?

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 11:29 am

Luminosity,

the cups were http://www.ebay.com/itm/Skin-Care-Face-Massage-SET-4-BANKI-CUPPING-CUPS-/320886415242?pt=US_Skin_Care&hash=item4ab6521f8a
, but not from this seller.

The advantage here is a better way to manage pressure, they do not loose suction (as my Small Face Vaculifter - completely, and Large Face - somewhat); allow you to pick the correct one for the area; are easier to clean; the disadvantages - it takes a bit of practice to operate them, they can break ( I ordered 2 sets); it is very easy to scare people my DH was terrified when he so a big blue/black on the back of my neck, I learned now how to do it correctly, so no more).

They were highly recommended on the Europeran Forum, and I ordered them from Russia - it took about 2 weeks to get them.

Re.: Refa Pro - it seem to work well with forehead, decolletage area, am not sure about the rest of the face. It does seem a bit fresher when I use it, and feels lovely on the neck. I bought if from La Luna, and will be talking to her to check if I use it correctly (pressure, duration, etc.), so at this point I am still hesitant to pass any judgement.

I also forgot High Frequency - I find it to be quite useful when it works and if one can use it (btw - very good for hair growth stimulation).

HTH

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 11:47 am

Thank you.

I have concerns about using devices whose mode of action is via manipulation of muscles, but appreciate the endorsement for information purposes.

Do the Ultrasound devices employ a kind of sonophoresis or am I confusing terminology?

BFG

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 12:01 pm

sigma wrote:

Luminosity,

the cups were http://www.ebay.com/itm/Skin-Care-Face-Massage-SET-4-BANKI-CUPPING-CUPS-/320886415242?pt=US_Skin_Care&hash=item4ab6521f8a
, but not from this seller.

The advantage here is a better way to manage pressure, they do not loose suction (as my Small Face Vaculifter - completely, and Large Face - somewhat); allow you to pick the correct one for the area; are easier to clean; the disadvantages - it takes a bit of practice to operate them, they can break ( I ordered 2 sets); it is very easy to scare people my DH was terrified when he so a big blue/black on the back of my neck, I learned now how to do it correctly, so no more).

They were highly recommended on the Europeran Forum, and I ordered them from Russia - it took about 2 weeks to get them.

Re.: Refa Pro - it seem to work well with forehead, decolletage area, am not sure about the rest of the face. It does seem a bit fresher when I use it, and feels lovely on the neck. I bought if from La Luna, and will be talking to her to check if I use it correctly (pressure, duration, etc.), so at this point I am still hesitant to pass any judgement.

I also forgot High Frequency - I find it to be quite useful when it works and if one can use it (btw - very good for hair growth stimulation).

HTH

Sigma,

Please let me know if the suction is as strong as with the Vaculifter... I am just one click away from ordering but I want to make sure these are comparable. I watched the video on the Ebay site and the client's face didn't get as red as I saw on the Vaculift video. However, this is a much heavier gal so maybe that had something to do with it.

And, yes please keep updating on the ReFa... I have emailed la luna few times and know she is very much an advocate. However, all my sleuthing on the internet has shown me very mixed results... most saying that regular face exercises will do the same if not more than the ReFa. But the Refa supposedly has some microcurrent so there is that to consider.

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 12:21 pm

Luminosity,

the suction is stronger with cups. I would say that Vaculifter's action is more surface blood-flow/lympho-drainagae, while that of the massage cups is muscle-relaxation/lympho-drainage/blood-flow.

There was work done by this European scientist, whose main point was that wrinkles/sagging are caused by some muscles being too weak, while other being over-used and as a result are in hypertonus. She advocates both exercises and relaxation (btw, same principles as safetox). The key is how to use it (applies to both Vaculifter and cups) - you have to follow massage lines, and massage biggest muscles with "tight" face (similar to CF).

HTH

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 12:29 pm

DragoN wrote:

Safetox: Bethany...how long did you use it before you noticed results? Just checked out the website...Pricey. But better than fillers or botox if that can be avoided.

DragoN, I need to go through my historical posts, but I am pretty just I saw significant lessening of my jowls in less than 2 months, and softening on forehead lines far more quickly.

I am getting ready to start using it again, once I locate it...I recently remodeled 3 bathrooms and my kitchen, and still can't find a bunch of stuff! But I truthfully wish I had never taken a break due to be being lazy (I basically did nothing to my skin for about 18 months). I think I am going to take pics this time for everyone.

BTW, prior to using Safetox I did Ageless (worked well on my eyes) and Flex Effect, but it was just too much of a time commitment and I hated doing it. But Safetox is very relaxing, and I actually enjoyed using it.

I also hated using the STOP (too messy and saw limited results), the dermaroller (very painful but did work in eliminating my crows feet), the ultrasound (BORING...like rubbing the backs of spoons on your face), and the LED (too much time per usage and no results).

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 12:37 pm

bethany - do you think you got good results from all your dermarolling? How long did you do it?

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 12:46 pm

sigma wrote:

Luminosity,

the suction is stronger with cups. I would say that Vaculifter's action is more surface blood-flow/lympho-drainagae, while that of the massage cups is muscle-relaxation/lympho-drainage/blood-flow.

There was work done by this European scientist, whose main point was that wrinkles/sagging are caused by some muscles being too weak, while other being over-used and as a result are in hypertonus. She advocates both exercises and relaxation (btw, same principles as safetox). The key is how to use it (applies to both Vaculifter and cups) - you have to follow massage lines, and massage biggest muscles with "tight" face (similar to CF).

HTH

Thank you for your feedback...I just bought it! I've been wanting something like this for a while... and the Vaculifter is sold out on NCN's site anyway. Plus, I like that the cupping set has different sizes and works deeply. Can't wait! Dancing

free skin care · Sun May 06, 2012 9:18 pm

Luminosity

Quote:

The Ulthera based study was impressive. I wonder if any of the non-professional units even come close? I've been wondering about u/s for a while. I couldn't quite tell, DragoN... do you have this at home?

I bought a little home version dealie a couple of them. For testing and gifts to unsuspecting.

Did the usual test to see if they actually move anything...and they DO. Through 10 cm of water they can bounce particles off the bottom of the beaker. So..does sonophoresis have any effect? Apparently it does, but only some research out there on it for dermal rejuvenation purposes. Although some of the research is glowing, some is not. Effective for some people and not for others. As Sigma can attest.

Cupping? Suction? Like Ba Guan? Chinese medicine? I need to peek at this, haven't checked it out at all. Wet cupping has shown to be effective for pain...but that is quite bloody and rather u hmm

m messy.

Bethany: Rubbing a spoon over face...yep. BORING. But only 10 minutes..so I will see if it is at all effective over time. Like that will be possible while using Derma roller which I know is effective.

Runs off to Chase the Fountain of Youth in a Cheap Plastic Bottle.

free skin care · Mon May 07, 2012 3:01 pm

foxe wrote:

bethany - do you think you got good results from all your dermarolling? How long did you do it?

Foxe, I am not a proponent of ongoing rolling, and chose to roll periodically in a very aggressive manner per Dr. Fernandes' protocol. I will sign on to my other pc later tonight and pull up my rolling history, but I think I did 2 series of 6 rolls a week apart.

It was 100% effective in eliminating my crowsfeet...I first saw improvement at 4 months, and the lines were eliminated by 6 months. (I was frankly floored).

I am finally getting ready to do another roll after close to 3 years off...my crowsfeet are still gone, but I am seeing some crepiness under my eyes. I will only be rolling my eye area with a 1mm, since I did not see any improvement in any other areas (face, neck, chest, hands) that could not be attributed to inflammation.

If I had to do the whole thing over again, I would have rolled aggressively once per year, but that's it.

free skin care · Mon May 07, 2012 3:07 pm

bethany wrote:

DragoN wrote:

Safetox: Bethany...how long did you use it before you noticed results? Just checked out the website...Pricey. But better than fillers or botox if that can be avoided.

DragoN, I need to go through my historical posts, but I am pretty just I saw significant lessening of my jowls in less than 2 months, and softening on forehead lines far more quickly.

I am getting ready to start using it again, once I locate it...I recently remodeled 3 bathrooms and my kitchen, and still can't find a bunch of stuff! But I truthfully wish I had never taken a break due to be being lazy (I basically did nothing to my skin for about 18 months). I think I am going to take pics this time for everyone.

I found my Safetox last night and started back up after taking a gazillion "before" pics. I will be doing the 3 point method because I saw fastest results with that last time.

I had forgotten how relaxing it can be...I am off to use it right now! Very Happy

free skin care · Mon May 07, 2012 5:02 pm

bethany wrote:

foxe wrote:

bethany - do you think you got good results from all your dermarolling? How long did you do it?

Foxe, I am not a proponent of ongoing rolling, and chose to roll periodically in a very aggressive manner per Dr. Fernandes' protocol. I will sign on to my other pc later tonight and pull up my rolling history, but I think I did 2 series of 6 rolls a week apart.

It was 100% effective in eliminating my crowsfeet...I first saw improvement at 4 months, and the lines were eliminated by 6 months. (I was frankly floored).

I am finally getting ready to do another roll after close to 3 years off...my crowsfeet are still gone, but I am seeing some crepiness under my eyes. I will only be rolling my eye area with a 1mm, since I did not see any improvement in any other areas (face, neck, chest, hands) that could not be attributed to inflammation.

If I had to do the whole thing over again, I would have rolled aggressively once per year, but that's it.

Thanks bethany - that was helpful. I couldn't imagine having to get close enough for my crowsfeet. That's what Botox is for anyway. Laughing

free skin care · Mon May 07, 2012 5:10 pm

foxe wrote:

bethany wrote:

foxe wrote:

bethany - do you think you got good results from all your dermarolling? How long did you do it?

Foxe, I am not a proponent of ongoing rolling, and chose to roll periodically in a very aggressive manner per Dr. Fernandes' protocol. I will sign on to my other pc later tonight and pull up my rolling history, but I think I did 2 series of 6 rolls a week apart.

It was 100% effective in eliminating my crowsfeet...I first saw improvement at 4 months, and the lines were eliminated by 6 months. (I was frankly floored).

I am finally getting ready to do another roll after close to 3 years off...my crowsfeet are still gone, but I am seeing some crepiness under my eyes. I will only be rolling my eye area with a 1mm, since I did not see any improvement in any other areas (face, neck, chest, hands) that could not be attributed to inflammation.

If I had to do the whole thing over again, I would have rolled aggressively once per year, but that's it.

Thanks bethany - that was helpful. I couldn't imagine having to get close enough for my crowsfeet. That's what Botox is for anyway. Laughing

I am personally resistant to Botox, so that's not an option for me. It lasts 6 weeks max, now matter how many units they give me.

The 3Line roller is what I used for my eyes...the other is too big to get close enough. Smile

free skin care · Mon May 07, 2012 5:13 pm

bethany wrote:

DragoN wrote:

Safetox: Bethany...how long did you use it before you noticed results? Just checked out the website...Pricey. But better than fillers or botox if that can be avoided.

DragoN, I need to go through my historical posts, but I am pretty just I saw significant lessening of my jowls in less than 2 months, and softening on forehead lines far more quickly.

DragoN, I forgot to mention that the best result of using the Safetox was that it significantly lifted my upper eyelids...no more smudged eyeliner!

Ageless did the same, but took more time and wasn't as easy....now I just lay there with the Safetox on and relax while it does all the work. Very Happy

free skin care · Mon May 07, 2012 9:26 pm

Quote:

The 3Line roller is what I used for my eyes...the other is too big to get close enough

.
Same, and use for upper and lower eye area.

Quote:

DragoN, I forgot to mention that the best result of using the Safetox was that it significantly lifted my upper eyelids...no more smudged eyeliner!

Interesting. Had the same occurrence with the ultrasound. Upper lid and eyebrows seem more lifted. After only 2X using. Darn thing is pretty nice. Have 2 units, one for body and pulse and continuous. 1 Mhz at max 0.4W/cm2 Max power 8 w so not as powerful as the skindream. The other unit, also 1 Mhz. but no other infos[ max pwr 6 W]. Smaller head and more comfy to use around face. Used that one also and same reaction. 10 mins and done. Can feel it next day. Interesting.

2-3 X a week for product penetration without the prep of 0.5mm rolling and the jumping about..I will run with this.

6 week intervals with 1.5 mm. *ouch* but oh well. No pain, no gain.

free skin care · Mon May 07, 2012 10:19 pm

Re.:Safetox - I did not see any improvements with upper or lower eyelids, nor jowls.

For forehead - excellent results.

It also could be that I had not used it diligently or long enough.

free skin care · Tue May 08, 2012 2:50 pm

sigma wrote:

Re.:Safetox - I did not see any improvements with upper or lower eyelids, nor jowls.

For forehead - excellent results.

It also could be that I had not used it diligently or long enough.

Did you use the 3 point method, or the single point method? How long did you use it, and on what Levels? Post over on the Safetox thread if you need any tips. I also answered your questions on batteries and electrodes over there.

Editing to add: I found a summary of my Safetox results from 2010, and it does take a while.

bethany wrote:

I just realized that I have been doing the 3 Point treatment for about 7 weeks now, so figured I would give an update on everything...

Marionette Lines - This is the best my MLs have looked in YEARS (including after I had filler injected!) There is still a little ways to go, but the improvement is VERY significant. So significant that I am contemplating buying a 2nd unit just in case something happens to my current one, and so that I can also keep one in my office and ensure that I use it 2x day. I love this thing!!! Very Happy

Forehead wrinkles - The 3 major wrinkles I have across my forehead (1 for each of my major employers in my career Rolling Eyes

) are diminished maybe 60%. That's a guesstimate since I can't measure line depth, but I definitely feel like they are far less obvious than before. Shockingly, I may actually continue with no botox...they really do look that much better. But are they "gone" like with Botox? Nope. But does my forehead move like a normal person? Yep. Laughing

Glabella (11's) - This is the area where I have seen the least improvement, though they are still softened by maybe 25%. I suspect the lack is progress is because these are more due to me sleeping on my side. I may have to try the Breath Right strips to see if that helps.

Misc - I am also seeing my cheeks indenting a bit, and it certainly isn't because of any weight loss (darn it). Speaking of that, I am finally back on thyroid meds, and I am hoping that the Safetox usage may help me ward off any sagging should I eventually win the battle and lose the weight.

free skin care · Tue May 08, 2012 3:35 pm

Bethany - thanks.

I did answer on the Safetox thread (used both methods, irregularly for less then a month). Had seen excellent results with 11 and forehead wrinkles.

free skin care · Tue May 08, 2012 5:34 pm

Iontophoresis/sonophoresis definitely pushes actives into the skin. Physical therapy uses it to push lidocaine into the skin. Lots of studies on it for medical purposes.

I acquired 2 iono/sono devices from Japan but cant read the directions. Thru just fidding with them I got them to work and they DO make the skin well hydrated and softer. Time will tell if the results are more long-lasting. I use the gels that came with them but a DIY gel could be made with plain hospital sono gel + whatever.

Dont know the names of the devices either! I dont read Japanese!

Do not use ionoto/sono if you have had fillers - it will be quickly dissipated soon thereafter.

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