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Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:19 pm  |
I have a question about putting on sunscreen before mineral makeup. If I apply a SPF 15 moisturizer and then apply mineral makeup afterwards, does that mean I increase the SPF protection on my face cuz mineral makeup acts as a sunscreen itself too? So is it true that each layer of mineral makeup is equivalent to a SPF of 15? So in this case, does that mean I have a total SPF of 30 if I apply them both together? I know I sound stupid but can someone pls tell me if u know...thank you!!!  |
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:40 pm |
| If the mineral makeup has spf 15, why apply a spf cream first? Wouldn't the mineral makeup provide enough protection by itself? Do you apply a moisterizer, then another layer of sunscreen, then another layer of mineral makeup? Sounds like a lot. I'm curious about this too. |
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:03 pm |
| I read somewhere (I think on this board) that mmu only provides spf 15 if applied so heavily that you'd look ridiculous. If this is true and you want protection you'd have to put on sunscreen too. I don't really know how the spf multiplication thing goes, I've never been able to figure it out, either! |
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:13 pm |
| BYRG wrote: |
| If the mineral makeup has spf 15, why apply a spf cream first? Wouldn't the mineral makeup provide enough protection by itself? Do you apply a moisterizer, then another layer of sunscreen, then another layer of mineral makeup? Sounds like a lot. I'm curious about this too. |
I applied a moisturizer with SPF 15 then mineral makeup. I was hoping that a layer of mineral makeup will increase the SPF protection for my face. So my question is, if I applied a SPF 15 moisturizer then another layer of mineral makeup on top, will that provide a total of SPF 30 protection for my face? hahah...I know I sound weird but just wanna make sure  |
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:37 pm |
cloud_9 is exactly right. .MMU realy doesn't give you any protection, unless you apply it really, really heavy.. That's one thing I wish they wouldn't claim because to many people think they get protection with just that, when in fact they really aren't getting any.. I use a 45 on my face under my MMU... And BTW, even if you did get the 15 coverage with MMU and put 15 on top, NO, you will not get 30, you still have just 15...
BTW, just a reminder, you still need to reapply your SS.. Just once won't give you all day protection... |
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:38 pm |
I don't know where you read that it's a thick layer of MMU, Cloud9 ... but that's definitely not what I understand.
Each thin layer of MMU has an SPF of approx. 15.
I think because of the nature of minerals, each additional layer of MMU gives you added SPF protection ... at least the Jane Iredale site claims so.
Common ingredients in MMU are zinc oxide and titanium dioxide ... both of which are dense protection from the sun. So ... as you layer upon layer them ... you actually increase your SPF protection. This is not true for a cream/lotion type sunscreen.
You can't put on two layers of a cream/lotion type sunscreen and get increased protection. If the cream/lotion is an SPF of 15 ... two layers of it don't make an SPF of 30.
However, I don't know if a moisturizer/sunscreen of 15 plus a layer of MMU of 15 gives you an SPF of 30 either ... although it would make sense.
Math is not my strong suit I'm afraid ... and despite 15 plus 15 equalling 30 ... I'm not sure if that's entirely true when it comes to sun protection.
Now that I've got everyone thoroughly confused ... 
Mary |
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Over 50, combo, OCM. Originator of Pearl Paste ... www.silkenpearl.com |
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Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:46 pm |
This is something I have been trying to study and read up on myself....In the winter I solely rely on my mineral makeup, which I wear a decent amount a day for the sun protection without making it look too cakey or unnatural. On days where I know ill be driving more, i wear my SPF 30 under it...but from what I've read I would be getting the maximum of SPF 30...and I don't think you can build protection of sunscreen by adding layers of MMU...no matter how crazy us girls are on skincare, no routine is the best considering sunscreen (especially chemical) needs reapplying every 2 hours (How does this happen when u alreayd have foundation on...that and most of us dont have time to take a break every 2 hours to reapply), and there are also downfalls to all sunscreen products (mineral is sticky-ish; chemical absorbs quick and loses purpose) ...
but getting to the point...from what i've read, adding layers does NOT add SPF...can be good to protect against the pollutants of the environment though. |
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Extremely fair/sensitive skin(mild rosacea)that burns very easy.acne is rare/skin is dry.27 years old. |
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Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:33 am |
Mineral makeup's SPF depends on the formula of the mineral makeup... Higher titanium dioxide and/or zinc oxide content will give you a higher level of sun protection. Applying multiple layers won't necessary increase the SPF factors, but that will make sure you're covering every inch of your face. But of course I'm only talking about 1-2 layers here...
Personally I think if you apply a sunscreen first, then mineral makeup, you ARE increasing the level of sun protection, because after all, most mineral makeups are basically some forms of physical sunscreen (as long as they have titanium dioxide and/or zinc oxide in them) and they help block the UV rays from getting to your skin, while the chemical sunscreen will help in the damage defense department.
I myself don't usually use a sunscreen before mineral makeup, unless I'm staying out in the sun. And I never reapply sunscreen when I'm not swimming or sweating in gallons. My skin doesn't like having too much "stuff" on it...  So for a normal day doing normal activities (going to the stores, driving to work, etc..), I just add another layer of mineral makeup in the middle of the day if I need to retouch my sun protection (and fix my makeup at the same time)... |
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Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:21 am |
| I have a question about applying MMU after sunscreen. I just ordered my Alima foundation samples and this will be my second time to give MMU a go. I just want to make sure I get the application right. After I apply my sunscreen, my face is always a bit shiny since the ss doesn't absorb and no matter how "dry" it claims to be. So my question is, do I have to wait a while to put on my MMU after ss? I'm afraid that if I put it on right after, it would sort of goop up since my face isn't dry/matte. TIA! |
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Sat May 01, 2010 9:41 am |
I know that mineral foundations cannot be used with sunscreens that contain avobenzone. The titanium dioxide +/or zinc oxide in the makeup can/will deactivate the avobenzone.
Does anyone know if this also applies to face powders that contain other minerals (such as silica, talc). I am unsure and so have avoided some finishing powders that I would like to try(like MAC, MUFE). Thanks for your help. |
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Sun May 02, 2010 12:43 pm |
| hpjrt wrote: |
I think because of the nature of minerals, each additional layer of MMU gives you added SPF protection ... at least the Jane Iredale site claims so.
Common ingredients in MMU are zinc oxide and titanium dioxide ... both of which are dense protection from the sun. So ... as you layer upon layer them ... you actually increase your SPF protection. This is not true for a cream/lotion type sunscreen.
You can't put on two layers of a cream/lotion type sunscreen and get increased protection. If the cream/lotion is an SPF of 15 ... two layers of it don't make an SPF of 30.
However, I don't know if a moisturizer/sunscreen of 15 plus a layer of MMU of 15 gives you an SPF of 30 either ... although it would make sense.
Math is not my strong suit I'm afraid ... and despite 15 plus 15 equalling 30 ... I'm not sure if that's entirely true when it comes to sun protection.
Now that I've got everyone thoroughly confused ...
Mary |
You could layer several different products and your highest protection would be from your highest rated product. (Assuming you did a full application of that product.) When you do layer your products, you do increase your odds that every tiny, tiny area of your face, neck, eye lids, etc. is covered.
I think of mineral makeup over a sunscreen product as extra insurance that everything is covered.
Reilly D:
I don't use products with avobenzone. So, I can't answer that. It is an ongoing debate on Makeupalley skin care board. |
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Canadian with fair skin. 50+ years old sensitive and reactive. |
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Sun May 02, 2010 6:17 pm |
| Autumn1995 wrote: |
Reilly D:
I don't use products with avobenzone. So, I can't answer that. It is an ongoing debate on Makeupalley skin care board. |
Thanks for your reply. I went out today and picked up a Shiseido SS (Zn0 + TiO2) just to be covered on real sunny days. But I have some great SS products w/ avobenzone that I won't use with mineral makeup, but still do wonder about some of the finer finishing powders that contain silica. None of the reps from the cosmetic companies that sell them seem to know either (LM, MUFE, MAC, for example). |
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Mon May 03, 2010 2:34 am |
Reilly:
The general opinion on MUA (and some of these ladies are very knowledgeable) was if it was a true mineral makeup with UNCOATED particles there might be an issue.
I do email corporate customer service (including MAC) on ingredients, etc. and I usually get a reply within days.
Some companies (Marcelle) offer to send coupons! |
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Canadian with fair skin. 50+ years old sensitive and reactive. |
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Tue May 04, 2010 11:13 am |
| Autumn1995 wrote: |
Reilly:
I do email corporate customer service (including MAC) on ingredients, etc. and I usually get a reply within days. |
Autumn - thanks for the suggestion. Done that already. My question now should really be directed to the sunscreen companies that produce products with avobenzone. I know that (uncoated) zinc oxide and titanium dioxide will deactivate avobenzone. What I don't know is whether other ingredients that are minerals (like silica) will also do the same - and so these other combinations should be avoided as well.
In addition, a Bobbi Brown powder that I was looking at this past weekend (not sold as a "mineral makeup") even contains titanium dioxide (plus many other things, including silica) - but I passed it by thinking that it would deactivate the avobenzone in my sunscreen.
Maybe I am overly concerned, I don't know. But as a user of Retin-A, vit C 20%, dermarolling - I just cannot take any avoidable risks with my skin.
I just do not know the science behind it well enough, and neither does anyone else I have spoken to (so far). My next step should be to contact the sunscreen company. If I do so, and learn anything helpful, I will post it here. |
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Tue May 04, 2010 7:08 pm |
Where are you getting info on minerals deactivating avobenzone? I have seen sunscreens with both these ingredients in it so it had to pass FDA muster.
the best thing to do is to ask Paula Begoun. She can find out more from chemists than us trying to contact the companies. Oh, and lets not getting to a debate about her herself. I just want to see what she has to say.
Mineral makeup does provide enough protection but it depends on the formula and the grades of minerals. Just like there are formulas that have light coverage and ones that have really heavy coverage, they are covering your face with a shield. So that in effect blocks the UVA/UVB rays. I have not tanned when using mineral makeup unless it was a formula that wore off easily. So some rays are being blocked.
I am not going to get all anal about it as long as I am not getting dark. |
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Fri May 07, 2010 12:55 pm |
| But Mineral Makeup has a much higher percentage of Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide, especially those lines with the two among the first three ingredients, right? Wouldn't that make up for something? |
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Fri May 07, 2010 2:22 pm |
| Stardustdy wrote: |
| I have a question about putting on sunscreen before mineral makeup. If I apply a SPF 15 moisturizer and then apply mineral makeup afterwards, does that mean I increase the SPF protection on my face cuz mineral makeup acts as a sunscreen itself too? So is it true that each layer of mineral makeup is equivalent to a SPF of 15? So in this case, does that mean I have a total SPF of 30 if I apply them both together? I know I sound stupid but can someone pls tell me if u know...thank you!!! |
No, As far as I know, applying 2 SPF 15's (one SS/ one MMUP) will NOT give you SPF 30.
It will however give you 2 layers of SPF 15 protection which is better than one. |
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Fri May 07, 2010 2:51 pm |
| Star Model wrote: |
| Stardustdy wrote: |
| I have a question about putting on sunscreen before mineral makeup. If I apply a SPF 15 moisturizer and then apply mineral makeup afterwards, does that mean I increase the SPF protection on my face cuz mineral makeup acts as a sunscreen itself too? So is it true that each layer of mineral makeup is equivalent to a SPF of 15? So in this case, does that mean I have a total SPF of 30 if I apply them both together? I know I sound stupid but can someone pls tell me if u know...thank you!!! |
No, As far as I know, applying 2 SPF 15's (one SS/ one MMUP) will NOT give you SPF 30.
It will however give you 2 layers of SPF 15 protection which is better than one. |
This is true. There is no compounding/additive factor with SPF. Two layers will be a greater assurance you are reaching (and maintaining )the SPF 15 level. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sun May 09, 2010 2:32 pm |
| ricayhermosa wrote: |
| But Mineral Makeup has a much higher percentage of Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide, especially those lines with the two among the first three ingredients, right? Wouldn't that make up for something? |
Yes - these are physical sunscreens and so should give some protection. How much is anyone's guess. Some products do have an SFP listed - most seem to be SPF 15, which is not much, and I have seen some SPF 30s, and even this is not enough for folks at risk like myself (users of Retin-A, C serum, and other sensitizing things). |
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Sun May 09, 2010 2:41 pm |
| sakura wrote: |
| Where are you getting info on minerals deactivating avobenzone? I have seen sunscreens with both these ingredients in it so it had to pass FDA muster. |
The sunscreens that contain minerals are coated with something to prevent interaction with the avobenzone. At least they should be. The link below is old but it says that such products are not approved for use in the USA. We have them in Canada and I just trust that the minerals are coated.
The problem comes in with minerals in makeup - they are not coated and so could/would deactivate avobenzone in sunscreens.
http://www.vivawoman.net/2008/03/03/avobenzone-sunscreen-and-mineral-makeup/
| Quote: |
| I am not going to get all anal about it as long as I am not getting dark. |
Avobenzone protects vs. aging rays (UVA), so it can be deactivated and you will not get dark provided that your sunscreen contains ingredients that provide UVB protection. But you will be exposed to damaging UVA (aging) rays. At least, this is how I understand it. |
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Fri May 11, 2012 3:05 pm |
I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone has found any studies on mineral make-up/physical sunscreen (uncoated) deactivating Avobenzone?
Is the DeVita sun screen a good choice to use with mineral make-up instead of Avobenzone containing sunscreens?
Thanks! |
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Fri May 11, 2012 3:14 pm |
| fitgineer wrote: |
I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone has found any studies on mineral make-up/physical sunscreen (uncoated) deactivating Avobenzone?
Is the DeVita sun screen a good choice to use with mineral make-up instead of Avobenzone containing sunscreens?
Thanks! |
Here I am replying to myself... But I found this study on PubMed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20806994
| Quote: |
RESULTS: Model formulations containing 3% avobenzone or 5% ZnO provided superior attenuation of UVA wavelengths >360 nm compared with formulas containing 5% TiO(2). Additionally, sunscreen products of similar SPF containing avobenzone or ZnO exhibited significantly higher PFA values than those containing TiO(2). The addition of photostabilized avobenzone or ZnO increased PFA values nearly 3-fold, whereas the addition of TiO(2) increased PFA values only modestly. Judicious selection of sunscreen actives alone or in combination with extra stabilizing agents maintained the photostability of avobenzone in formulations to deliver sustained broad-spectrum absorbance during 4 hours of exposure to UVR. Small losses (<20%) of avobenzone did not significantly reduce a product's protective effects as measured by SPF and PFA values on human skin.
CONCLUSIONS: TiO(2) provided neither the same level of UVA attenuation nor the same degree of UVA protection on human skin as did products containing photostabilized avobenzone or ZnO. Hence, TiO(2) cannot be considered a substitute for avobenzone or ZnO in providing high levels of UVA protection to human skin. Use of proper formulation strategies can ensure that avobenzone losses are minimized to the extent that they have no impact on a product's ability to deliver sustained protection, even over periods of prolonged exposure to UVR. |
They obviously did not combine Avobenzone with ZnO in the same sunscreeen, but my understanding is that they did add TiO(2) to Avobenzone... so Titanium Dioxide does not deactivate Avobenzone, just Zinc Oxide? |
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