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Wed May 16, 2012 9:00 am  |
I did a search for Cytokines and came up with 3 Companies using this ingredient; ISCO, Natura Bisse and ReLuma. I decided Natura Bisse is not the one I'd want, too much other stuff in there, ISCO has some fabulous reviews, but only a few have seen results I am looking for.
I am curious what the difference between ReLuma and Cellese AnteAging is, ReLuma is ubber expensive, $199.00 for an ounce of serum. I am finally very interested in this ingredient but wonder what the difference between ReLuma and Cellese AnteAge is? So need help getting pushed over the edge here!!!!
Calling Dr. J!!!!! |
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Wed May 16, 2012 11:10 am |
hey Tiny
not DrJ but I did find out some info about ReLuma that people may find interesting or not.
The site I found is offering ReLuma Anti-Aging Trio: Cleanser, Serum & Moisturizer for $179.
ingredients which may help the more scientific amongst us.
ReLuma Cleanser 30 ml:
Human adipose derived stem cell conditioned media, decyl glucoside, cocamidepropyl betaine, sodium PCA, quillaja saponin, calendula extract, methylisothazolinone, caprylyl glycol, distilled water
ReLuma Skin Illuminating Anti-Aging Serum 20 ml:
Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Water, Glycerin, Sodium PCA, DL-Panthenol, Hydroxy Ethyl Cellulose, Allantoin, Phenoxyethanol.
ReLuma Moisturizer 30 ml
Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Cetearyl Olivate, Sodium Olivate, Caprilic Capric Triglycerides, Vegetable Glycerin, Jojoba Oil, Jojoba Ester, Sodium L-Pyrrolidone Carboxylate, Sodium Lactate, L-Arginine, L-Aspartic Acid, Glycine, L-Alanine, L-Serine, L-Valine, L-Proline, L-Threonine, L-Leucine, L-Phenylamine, Silica, Vitamin E Tocopherol, Xanthan Gum, Hyaluronic Acid, Coenzyme Q-10, Methylisothiazolinone and Caprylyl Glycol, Water.
I read the reviews as well and I had to laugh, the first review was done by Lori, I can assure you it was not me. |
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50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 11:25 am |
Well thank you for pointing me in the right direction, DarkMoon.
I cannot help it I am old and have the onset of dementia.
I will go and read now. LMAO. |
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50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 11:31 am |
| loopylori wrote: |
Well thank you for pointing me in the right direction, DarkMoon.
I cannot help it I am old and have the onset of dementia.
I will go and read now. LMAO. |
Well if you are "old" That makes two of us! We do age like fine wine, get better with age?  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 16, 2012 11:37 am |
Thanks DarkMoon,
I don't think they include much information on this ReLuma Product. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 11:46 am |
| Tiny wrote: |
Thanks DarkMoon,
I don't think they include much information on this ReLuma Product. |
Sorry Tiny,
I just looked really quick and found what was here. 
Maybe Dr. J will weigh in as you requested! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 16, 2012 11:48 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
Thanks DarkMoon,
I don't think they include much information on this ReLuma Product. |
Sorry Tiny,
I just looked really quick and found what was here.
Maybe Dr. J will weigh in as you requested! |
Oh please don't misunderstand, I appreciate your work!!!!!!!!!!! I looked too, just nothing on this new serum. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 11:56 am |
| I hope he posts soon too, I put this here and not on the Cellese thread, so things don't get all confused. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:15 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
I did a search for Cytokines and came up with 3 Companies using this ingredient; ISCO, Natura Bisse and ReLuma. I decided Natura Bisse is not the one I'd want, too much other stuff in there, ISCO has some fabulous reviews, but only a few have seen results I am looking for.
I am curious what the difference between ReLuma and Cellese AnteAging is, ReLuma is ubber expensive, $199.00 for an ounce of serum. I am finally very interested in this ingredient but wonder what the difference between ReLuma and Cellese AnteAge is? So need help getting pushed over the edge here!!!!
Calling Dr. J!!!!! |
Hi Tiny, great question. We need to differentiate all the products that contain cytokines or growth factors. This may take more than one post.
ISCO and ReLuma do contain cytokines. As far as I can tell Natura Bisse only contains "the usual suspects" (stuff like peptides and and chemicals that the ingredients manufacturers are pushing this year). Correct me if I am wrong.
Somebody mentioned Revive, which contains a single cytokine (KGF) which is related to EGF. Dr George and I have written extensively about the potential folly of using any single growth factor in isolation on the skin.
More in a bit. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:20 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
I did a search for Cytokines and came up with 3 Companies using this ingredient; ISCO, Natura Bisse and ReLuma. I decided Natura Bisse is not the one I'd want, too much other stuff in there, ISCO has some fabulous reviews, but only a few have seen results I am looking for.
I am curious what the difference between ReLuma and Cellese AnteAging is, ReLuma is ubber expensive, $199.00 for an ounce of serum. I am finally very interested in this ingredient but wonder what the difference between ReLuma and Cellese AnteAge is? So need help getting pushed over the edge here!!!!
Calling Dr. J!!!!! |
Hi Tiny, great question. We need to differentiate all the products that contain cytokines or growth factors. This may take more than one post.
ISCO and ReLuma do contain cytokines. As far as I can tell Natura Bisse only contains "the usual suspects" (stuff like peptides and and chemicals that the ingredients manufacturers are pushing this year). Correct me if I am wrong.
Somebody mentioned Revive, which contains a single cytokine (KGF) which is related to EGF. Dr George and I have written extensively about the potential folly of using any single growth factor in isolation on the skin.
More in a bit. |
Thanks for the start!! I figured this would take a bit, hince the different thread, did not want to take away from the Cellese thread.
I too nixed the Natura Bisse, while great products, they did not seem to match up, they do seem to claim Cytokines tho  . |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:24 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
I did a search for Cytokines and came up with 3 Companies using this ingredient; ISCO, Natura Bisse and ReLuma. I decided Natura Bisse is not the one I'd want, too much other stuff in there, ISCO has some fabulous reviews, but only a few have seen results I am looking for.
I am curious what the difference between ReLuma and Cellese AnteAging is, ReLuma is ubber expensive, $199.00 for an ounce of serum. I am finally very interested in this ingredient but wonder what the difference between ReLuma and Cellese AnteAge is? So need help getting pushed over the edge here!!!!
Calling Dr. J!!!!! |
Hi Tiny, great question. We need to differentiate all the products that contain cytokines or growth factors. This may take more than one post.
ISCO and ReLuma do contain cytokines. As far as I can tell Natura Bisse only contains "the usual suspects" (stuff like peptides and and chemicals that the ingredients manufacturers are pushing this year). Correct me if I am wrong.
Somebody mentioned Revive, which contains a single cytokine (KGF) which is related to EGF. Dr George and I have written extensively about the potential folly of using any single growth factor in isolation on the skin.
More in a bit. |
Thanks for the start!! I figured this would take a bit, hince the different thread, did not want to take away from the Cellese thread.
I too nixed the Natura Bisse, while great products, they did not seem to match up, they do seem to claim Cytokines tho . |
If you have a link to a Natura Bisse ingredients list that looks like cytokines, please post it and I will take a look. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:32 pm |
ReLuma Moisturizer 30 ml
Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Cetearyl Olivate, Sodium Olivate, Caprilic Capric Triglycerides, Vegetable Glycerin, Jojoba Oil, Jojoba Ester, Sodium L-Pyrrolidone Carboxylate, Sodium Lactate, L-Arginine, L-Aspartic Acid, Glycine, L-Alanine, L-Serine, L-Valine, L-Proline, L-Threonine, L-Leucine, L-Phenylamine, Silica, Vitamin E Tocopherol, Xanthan Gum, Hyaluronic Acid, Coenzyme Q-10, Methylisothiazolinone and Caprylyl Glycol, Water.
I always have to scratch my head when I see individual amino acids as ingredients. They are abundantly present in the body, even in the case of severe protein-calorie malnutrition (muscle will be broken down to support skin! Believe it or not!). The question I like to ask is "did you expect those amino acids to self assemble into a useful peptide or protein?". Because they would have to in order to justify putting them there. Unless it's to feed bacteria & fungi on the skin surface. Makes a good culture medium. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:39 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
ReLuma Moisturizer 30 ml
Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Cetearyl Olivate, Sodium Olivate, Caprilic Capric Triglycerides, Vegetable Glycerin, Jojoba Oil, Jojoba Ester, Sodium L-Pyrrolidone Carboxylate, Sodium Lactate, L-Arginine, L-Aspartic Acid, Glycine, L-Alanine, L-Serine, L-Valine, L-Proline, L-Threonine, L-Leucine, L-Phenylamine, Silica, Vitamin E Tocopherol, Xanthan Gum, Hyaluronic Acid, Coenzyme Q-10, Methylisothiazolinone and Caprylyl Glycol, Water.
I always have to scratch my head when I see individual amino acids as ingredients. They are abundantly present in the body, even in the case of severe protein-calorie malnutrition (muscle will be broken down to support skin! Believe it or not!). The question I like to ask is "did you expect those amino acids to self assemble into a useful peptide or protein?". Because they would have to in order to justify putting them there. Unless it's to feed bacteria & fungi on the skin surface. Makes a good culture medium. |
The cream is loaded with ingredients, I saw that too. What I am interested in is the difference in their serum, vs. Cellese? The serum is a different animal it seems in this line. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:39 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
http://www.bing.com/shopping/natura-bisse-cytokines-top-ten-fluid/p/EE6DBCEEB8628F4D5012?q=natura+bisse+cytokines&lpq=natura%20bisse%20cytokines&qpvt=natura+bisse+cytokines&FORM=HURE
its the Natura Bisse top ten serum, but again, this is one I nixed early on. |
Oh, now I remember. This one is a total phony. No cytokines in sight (unless the bioferment of brewers yeast, a single celled organism, is cleverly self assembling into some human cytokines)... |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:41 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
http://www.bing.com/shopping/natura-bisse-cytokines-top-ten-fluid/p/EE6DBCEEB8628F4D5012?q=natura+bisse+cytokines&lpq=natura%20bisse%20cytokines&qpvt=natura+bisse+cytokines&FORM=HURE
its the Natura Bisse top ten serum, but again, this is one I nixed early on. |
Oh, now I remember. This one is a total phony. No cytokines in sight (unless the bioferment of brewers yeast, a single celled organism, is cleverly self assembling into some human cytokines)... |
that makes me feel better, I read it as such all by myself, which is very impressive, since I flunked science! |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:43 pm |
Isn't this what you are asking about Tiny, Ingredients posted by Lori above:
ReLuma Skin Illuminating Anti-Aging Serum 20 ml:
Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Water, Glycerin, Sodium PCA, DL-Panthenol, Hydroxy Ethyl Cellulose, Allantoin, Phenoxyethanol.
ReLuma Moisturizer 30 ml
Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Cetearyl Olivate, Sodium Olivate, Caprilic Capric Triglycerides, Vegetable Glycerin, Jojoba Oil, Jojoba Ester, Sodium L-Pyrrolidone Carboxylate, Sodium Lactate, L-Arginine, L-Aspartic Acid, Glycine, L-Alanine, L-Serine, L-Valine, L-Proline, L-Threonine, L-Leucine, L-Phenylamine, Silica, Vitamin E Tocopherol, Xanthan Gum, Hyaluronic Acid, Coenzyme Q-10, Methylisothiazolinone and Caprylyl Glycol, Water.
I read the reviews as well and I had to laugh, the first review was done by Lori, I can assure you it was not me. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:46 pm |
Yes Thanks!! I am awful at this science stuff, but at least Dr.J can consider me a sucess in his efforts here, I did note right away Natura Bisse, was NOT what it said it was  !! So job well done Dr.J, add a sucess to your list |
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Wed May 16, 2012 12:58 pm |
To understand the difference between Reluma and AnteAGE, we need to talk about the science of stem cells, typoes of stem cells, stem cell niches, and all that.
Here is something I wrote at BFT about adiopose derived stem cells in particular:
Your body’s fat stores contain stem cells that look a whole lot like the stem cells in your bone marrow. They have the surface markers of mesenschymal stem cells (MSC’s). But the statement in the post above … “There is increasing evidence that marked differences exist in the biology of MSCs that are dependent on the tissue of origin.” is a major key to understanding that there are important differences. They look the same, but they are not the same functionally. These MSC’s living in fat tissues are not the first responder cells mobilized for repair. That is not their “NICHE”. In fact, they may be part of a different system that has to do with regulation of fat (energy storage) biochemically as well as being progenitors for new fat cells (should you need more). Now, when expanding a colony of these cells in a culture (in vitro) they behave just as MSC’s (or fibroblasts, indeed many mammalian cells) in secreting cytokines to exchange information during growth. The focus of the message is growth. But it is not necessarily a recipe for repair and rejuvenation. Do they work? Yes. As well as marrow-derived MSC’s? Theoretically not, based on the logic derived from the latest knowledge about MSC niches. The placement of “damage control” MSC’s in bone marrow makes perfect sense teleologically. So much of their work has to do with immune cells being made there, in a place rich with blood vessels. Fat lacks that logic. Its like housing your big city emergency personnel in the country down a dirt road. The reason some companies use these cells is because they are easy to get (the disposed waste of a liposuction vs. a bone marrow aspiration). And therefore a lot cheaper.
We also need to talk about the difference between conditioned media and more elaborate cell processing extractions and about liposomes and nanosomes as delivery systems. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 1:12 pm |
| So are you saying, this company uses the "garbage" stem cells? Or I should say useless ones, if so how can anyone tell? |
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Wed May 16, 2012 1:14 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| So are you saying, this company uses the "garbage" stem cells? Or I should say useless ones, if so how can anyone tell? |
No, they are useful. You will get results. Just not as useful (if you follow the logic above). And cheaper, because you don't have to pay anyone to undergo a bone marrow aspiration (in fact they pay you to have you suction their fat). So, if it's such a sweet deal, how come its not cheaper? I don't know. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 1:15 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| So are you saying, this company uses the "garbage" stem cells? Or I should say useless ones, if so how can anyone tell? |
No., they are useful. Just cheaper, because you don;t have to pay anyone to undergo a bone marrow aspiration (in fact they pay you to have you suction their fat). So, if it's such a sweet deal, how come its not cheaper? I don't know. |
I am lost on if its such a sweet deal, how come its not cheaper? whats the sweet deal? |
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Wed May 16, 2012 1:17 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| So are you saying, this company uses the "garbage" stem cells? Or I should say useless ones, if so how can anyone tell? |
No., they are useful. Just cheaper, because you don;t have to pay anyone to undergo a bone marrow aspiration (in fact they pay you to have you suction their fat). So, if it's such a sweet deal, how come its not cheaper? I don't know. |
I am lost on if its such a sweet deal, how come its not cheaper? whats the sweet deal? |
Cost of goods is smaller than Cellese's for example. So why does product cost more? I cannot answer that. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 1:18 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| So are you saying, this company uses the "garbage" stem cells? Or I should say useless ones, if so how can anyone tell? |
No., they are useful. Just cheaper, because you don;t have to pay anyone to undergo a bone marrow aspiration (in fact they pay you to have you suction their fat). So, if it's such a sweet deal, how come its not cheaper? I don't know. |
I am lost on if its such a sweet deal, how come its not cheaper? whats the sweet deal? |
Cost of goods is smaller than Cellese's for example. So why does product cost more? I cannot answer that. |
Well Loopy just found a smoking deal, face cream, serum and cleanser all full sized for $179.00, so it is cheaper. The serum is normally $199.00
eta: its a sale, but your right Dr.J., its not normally cheaper. |
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