Cerave equivalent in the UK?
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Sun May 27, 2012 10:45 am

Hi all,

As the title suggests I always read about how good Cerave is but being in the UK it costs a small fortune to get it.

Are there any similar moisturising lotions in the UK? I am a guy by the way and just use boots No7 moisturiser, I like the feel of it but it doesn't seem to hydrate my cheeks for some reason.

Any tips? I have very sensitive, cloggy skin by the way.

Many thanks.

free skin care · Sun May 27, 2012 1:18 pm

The closest is Balneum Cream (NOT Balneum Plus)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Balneum-Cream-500g/dp/B003JI64N2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1338149569&sr=8-2

Have you checked with your GP you don't have an underlying skin condition such as seborrhoeic dermatitis or mild rosacea? Have you tried cutting out sulphate surfactants and alkaline soaps? Are you consistently meeting or exceeding all our government's recommendations for healthy eating and lifestyle? This can have a significant effect on the health of the skin barrier and composition of sebum.

Mon May 28, 2012 5:09 am

Thank you Firefox,

I have seen the GP previously but find they don't really care unless your face is practically falling off everything is cosmetic!

I would love to see someone who could sort out my diet, skincare and general well being but these people don't seem to exist.

I have started using La Roche Posay Physiological face wash now to see if that helps.

Thanks.

free skin care · Mon May 28, 2012 5:16 am

Myself wrote:

Thank you Firefox,

I have seen the GP previously but find they don't really care unless your face is practically falling off everything is cosmetic!

I would love to see someone who could sort out my diet, skincare and general well being but these people don't seem to exist.

I have started using La Roche Posay Physiological face wash now to see if that helps.

Thanks.

You have the right to make an appointment with another GP within the practice or even switch practices entirely, plenty of GPs have an interest in dermatology and receptionist, practice manager or the nurse should know who does. The possible diagnoses I mention would be easy enough for them to rule in or rule out, if the case is mild you can self treat better than the average GP anyway. Wink

I work in lifestyle healthcare: ask away. But my questions stands: are you consistently meeting or exceeding all our government's recommendations for healthy eating and lifestyle? Please specify which you do and do not meet. All the recommendations for diet, smoking, drinking, physical activity and weight are online if you aren't sure what they are. Smile

Mon May 28, 2012 5:35 am

Thank you Firefox,

Starting with diet, guess I don't meet the 5 a day regularly but do eat a fair bit of fruit and veg. Don't eat chocolate or fast food regularly at all.

Don't smoke.
Don't drink.

Probably don't exercise as much as I should.

6ft 2in and 13.5st so maybe under weight slightly for my build.

My skin is always just very dry but also gets greasy which is weird. Just feels uncomfortable either dry or sticky and just not healthy looking.

I am at a loss as to what is wrong. Had a ton of blood tests for B12, iron, thyroid etc all fine.

free skin care · Mon May 28, 2012 6:41 am

So your skin is dehydrated (not enough water) and oily simultaneously - that is fairly common and it's usually down to a combination of lifestyle, harsh skincare and sometimes an undiagnosed skin condition in a younger person. Seborrhoeic dermatitis and rosacea *usually* present on the cheeks either side of the nose, but can be on the nose (rosacea) or eyebrows (SD). Do you have any scalp issues - flaking, itching, greasy?

The skin is our largest organ and it is an organ of excretion not just a wrapping. It doesn't keep you alive day to day like the heart and lungs do so it's not your body's priority if you are low on one or more nutrients. When I first started studying nutrition and dietetics I was absolutely blown away by the evidence: diet is as powerful in preventing, treating and even curing many health conditions than prescription drugs. In some cases MORE powerful. It's nonsensical that GPs don't address the basics, especially when they have chucked a battery of blood tests at you! Confused

Yey for being a healthy weight, not smoking or drinking! Very Happy

Physical activity - the good news is there is NO requirement to formally exercise. Your minimum is 10,000 steps each day at any pace divided through the day and this is critical to the function of all the organs involved in excretion - we evolved to move. You will likely need to eat a little more to accommodate this. Men who get a pedometer can get really into it, competitive with themselves! Women ... many of us are lazier, ssshhh.

Five a day is the bare minimum not the ideal, actually the research supports nine a day and many governments advocate that. This much fruit and veg supplies water, vitamins, some minerals, antioxidants and soluble fibre all of which are important to healthy skin. Loads more questions cos you missed most of the recommendations ... What about dairy products, oily fish (pilchards, sardines, salmon), white/ refined carbohydrates (bread, pasta, rice), salt, watery drinks? Do you eat a wide variety of foods each week, beans and lentils regularly, fruit and veg from all colours (black/ purple, orange/ yellow, dark green, red)? And healthy fats other than oily fish - nuts, seeds, creamed coconut, avocado, olives?

Mon May 28, 2012 7:50 am

Thanks for all the advice Smile

I drink loads of water and as a hot drink usually green tea, occasionally coffee.

My scalp is a real pain (never was until recently, last year or so as my exercise has tailed off), itchy, greasy and flakey (flakes appear white and dry though not yellow, sorry if TMI!)at times but hair is really quite dry, also losing it as well, as usual GP doesn't care as I'm a bloke!

Don't have anything on side of the nose or eyebrows really. Have been suffering with quite bad anxiety and depression as a side note.

Dairy products include a fair amount of cheese not much milk really and also soya milk. Eat quite a lot of salmon, never add salt to anything, eat rice and pasta but no white bread only whole meal. Never eat lentils but do eat broad beans, runner beans weekly. Eat salads and fruit salad as dessert 4 times a week approx.

Other healthy fats I guess I don't eat and I take no supplements either.

From reading all that I feel I should be ok that's why I'm at a loss and getting more depressed about it Sad

Any more thoughts? Smile

I'm 37 by the way.

Many thanks.

free skin care · Mon May 28, 2012 2:44 pm

Bingo!

Scalp is probably seborrhoeic dermatitis which is an inflammatory condition caused by an overgrowth of a yeast on the scalp. A pharmacist can 'diagnose' that for you. If it is you want an antifungal product such as ketoconazole shampoo, use intensively for two weeks then once a week thereafter. The rest of the time switch to a gentle shampoo that does not contain any sulphate surfactants and preferably no anionic surfactants. The hair loss could be male pattern baldness which requires pharmacy stuff to deal with. *Some* types of hair loss can be improved by quitting sulphate surfactants and using a ketoconazole shampoo so there is overlap in treatment.
Two options for your regular shampoo, plain/ gentle option
http://www.naturallythinking.com/products/Shampoo-SLS-free-Extra-Mild.html (pay by Paypal, the customer service is patchy)
Pricier tailored to hair loss option
http://www.regenepure.com/our-ingredients.html/
This is the ONLY ketoconazole shampoo that is also sulphate-free AFAIK. Sad

Cheeks ... could be just xerosis (clinical dry skin) could be atopic eczema - also an inflammatory condition - because it is pretty common for two forms of dermatitis to co-exist. Get the pharmacist to 'diagnose' that too.

Other than that what leaps out at me is a body under stress: mental health issues can take their toll on the body, and things like being sedentary/ poor diet/ bad sleep patterns also put the body into a state of physical stress. Stress increases the body's need for every nutrient and, crucially, causes low grade inflammation. Not telling you off just explaining where I think you are at - been there done that got the t-shirt. Wink

I actually got into lifestyle healthcare after being ill myself and making myself well again, before that I worked in pharmacy and laboratories.

Please learn from my mistakes: firstly get your depression and stress treated, with medication if required. It's common to try a couple of different medications before you hit the one that works for you. If you are struggling physically with the stress (eg. sleep disturbance, feeling nervy, panic attacks) I highly recommend asking your doctor about a low dose beta blocker. These will not make you drowsy, not addictive, don't have to be taken all the time, and have little to no side effects - in fact they are often prescribed to students with exam stress. Make a double appointment with a different GP in the practice, write lists of what you want to discuss, take charge of your NHS experience because that is what you have paid taxes for!! Secondly get physically active again, the more intense the better. Get out of doors and/ or do a group activity and/ or an activity to music. Exercise is scientifically proven to be effective in both depression and stress as well as benefiting your skin. It is easier to motivate yourself when your symptoms are somewhat controlled with medication.

Whilst your diet is fairly decent compared with the average Brit, it's a long way from optimum nutrition for either mental health or for your skin. Which is great, because you have stuff to work on! Very Happy

Essential fatty acids and certain minerals (esp. magnesium) are key for producing the hormones that control mood and stress levels, also in skin hydration, the normal exfoliation process, sebum production, reducing inflammation. Eat oily fish daily OR take a triple concentrated supplement supplying 3g of combined DHA and EPA. Also eat other healthy fats twice daily from my earlier list - forgot to include omega eggs. Minerals: particularly found in wholegrains, beans and lentils, nuts and seeds none of which you are eating regularly so choose one at every meal.

As well as stress, the other thing that contributes to damaging inflammation, feeds the scalp yeast and negatively affects mood is peaks in blood sugar levels. Surprisingly these are caused by white/ refined carbohydrates in some cases more so than sugar there is actually a list of the 'good' and 'bad' guys called the glycaemic index. The other thing that causes blood sugar to peak is eating carbohydrates without enough fat, protein or fibre to slow the digestion. Lower glycaemic index carbs (good Dancing

) include beans and lentils, most vegetables, berries, tree fruits, sweet potatoes, brown pasta, barley, brown basmati rice, stoneground bread, granary wholemeal bread, brown pitta bread. Higher glycaemic index carbs (bad Shame on you

) include white rice, white pasta, white noodles, white bread, refined breakfast cereal, most potatoes especially mash, tropical fruits, most fruit juice.

Linked in with that is working up to nine portions a day of fruit and veg which is not nearly as boring nor as difficult as it seems initially. You must start at breakfast with two portions (fruit or baked beans, say). Salad: you need to eat a piled soup plate full of leaves to hit just one portion - try weighing 80g of lettuce. Shock

So include dense foods like canned lentils and raw carrot because an 80g portion is quite small. Most people enjoy stir fries, chicken and vegetable curries, cheesy vegetable bake, minestrone soup, chilli con carne with hidden extra veg, stews made in the slow cooker, frozen fruit smoothies, massive fruit salad with canned evaporated milk or coconut milk, fresh fruit with cheese, veg sticks and dips. Beans and lentils count once per day, if you chuck extra tomato puree in baked beans you get another portion!

Sorry about the essay, I type almost as quickly as I think!! Embarassed

Tue May 29, 2012 6:36 am

That is fantastic thank you Firefox - will you come and live with me? Laughing

One last thing, can you comment on the face wash I use?

Was Boots no7 for men face wash and now La Roche Posay Physiological face wash.

Good or bad?

Thank you so much.

Tue May 29, 2012 6:39 am

PS Also my moisturiser - Boots no7 for men antiaging SPF 15.

Wonder if any good ingredients wise?

Thank you Very Happy

free skin care · Tue May 29, 2012 8:00 am

Sorry I only exist in virtual reality. Laughing

If you post the ingredients of each product and we will comment.

Tue May 29, 2012 8:27 am

La Roche Posay Physiological

Aqua / Water, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Isohexadecane, Paraffinum Liquidum / Mineral Oil, Glycerin, Acrylamide/Sodium Acryloyldimethyltaurate Copolymer, Ceteareth-25, Cetearyl Alcohol, Sodium Hydroxide, Poloxamer 184, Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate, Disodium EDTA, Polysorbate 80, Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Caprylyl Glycol, Myrtrimonium Bromide, Benzoic Acid, Parfum / Fragrance.

Boots No7 Face Wash

Aqua, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Glycerin, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Acrylates/Palmeth-25 Acrylate Copolymer, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Sodium Chloride, Phenoxyethanol, Parfum, Panthenol, Sodium Hydroxide, Potassium Sorbate, Citric Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Dipropylene Glycol, Disodium Phosphate.

Boots No7 Moisturiser

Aqua, Butylene Glycol, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Isohexadecane, Isononyl Isononanoate, Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane, Ethylhexyl Salicylate, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Dimethicone, Cetyl Alcohol, C18-36 Acid Glycol Ester, Polyglyceryl-3 Methylglucose Distearate, Mica, Phenoxyethanol, Glycerin, Sorbitan Stearate, Polyacrylamide, Polysorbate 20, C13-14 Isoparaffin, Dimethiconol, Parfum, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Laureth-7, Sucrose Cocoate, Xanthan Gum, Retinyl Palmitate, Dipropylene Glycol, Citric Acid, Lupinus Albus Extract, Tetrasodium Edta, Carbomer, Tocopherol, Butylparaben, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Propylparaben, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7, Ci 77891

Included the ingredients any input would be great, thanks Firefox
Smile

free skin care · Tue May 29, 2012 8:46 am

Chemical soups. The Boots wash is based on sodium laureth sulphate which is a powerful irritant, dehydrating and contra-indicated in anyone with dermatitis or xerosis. Boots moisturiser is pulling the wool over your eyes with mica (reflective particles) and silicones (silky feeling). To include SAP - a form of vitamin C - after the paraben preservatives makes it totally pointless. Choose a physical sunscreen (micronised zinc oxide, titanium dioxide) with SPF30 not a chemical one.

BTW the cheapest Boots for Men moisturiser is £8 for 50ml, which is a lot more expensive than CeraVe or Balneum which are ~£18 for 450g/ 500g.

Tue May 29, 2012 8:54 am

Thanks Firefox,

What about the La Roche Posay cleanser?

I guess I like the moisturiser because it is light and not too creamy/thick, the balneum looks thick. Any good lotions that are more watery I guess and safe?

I have noticed that the moisturiser leaves almost glittery bits on my face! Strange.

So sorry for all the questions Sad

free skin care · Tue May 29, 2012 10:10 am

Myself wrote:

Thanks Firefox,

What about the La Roche Posay cleanser?

I guess I like the moisturiser because it is light and not too creamy/thick, the balneum looks thick. Any good lotions that are more watery I guess and safe?

I have noticed that the moisturiser leaves almost glittery bits on my face! Strange.

So sorry for all the questions Sad

Chemical soup, but it's much better than the Boots wash.

Many very light lotions tend to 'absorb' because you are paying for water which evaporates off: if you have dryness you will probably need more substance than that. Many thick creams are so because thickers or gelling ingredients are used rather than anything greasy. Choosing the right emollients/ occlusives and applying the right amount the product should absorb fine. I currently use a thick cream which I blend with an aloe gel in the hand for daytime use - maybe 1/1. Bear in mind you don't necessarily have to use the same product for morning and night, nor every day for the rest of your life. You might be able to use a rich product for a few weeks then back off.

The only other products I can think of are from the Eucerin range, which are chemical soups but do contain various proven ingredients (emboldened). I used to use the 5% urea replenishing face cream which is VERY light but does exactly what it says on the tube! The 5% urea replenishing night cream also contains ceramides IIRC which is a key skin lipid also in CeraVe and Balneum. I have not used the night cream because it is relatively new to the range, but it gets decent reviews on Boots.

"Aqua, Glycerin, Urea, Cyclomethicone, Ethylhexyl Cocoate, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Helianthus Annuus, Isopropyl Stearate, Polyglyceryl-2 Dipolyhydroxystearate, Squalane, Sodium Lactate, Butyrospermum Parkii, Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate, Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Benzyl Alcohol, Magnesium Sulfate, Sodium Starch Octenylsuccinate, Lactic Acid, Methylparaben, Disodium EDTA, Ceramide 3, BHT."
http://www.boots.com/en/Eucerin-Dry-Skin-Replenishing-Face-Cream-Night-5-Urea-with-Lactate-50ml_41614/

"Aqua, Urea, Glycerin, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Cyclomethicone, Dimethicone, Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate, Triisostearin, Cetyl Alcohol, Sodium Lactate, Glyceryl Stearate, Benzyl Alcohol, PEG-40 Stearate, Biosaccharide Gum-1, Methylparaben, Lactic Acid, Lanolin Alcohol, Phenoxyethanol."
http://www.boots.com/en/Eucerin-Dry-Skin-Relief-Face-Cream-5-Urea-50ml_6765/
On three-for-two at the moment. Some of the Eucerin body products are greasy and the face wash (used to) contain sulphates so be careful what you buy.

Doesn't solve the problem of sunscreen tho! Confused

I'm concerned about you using enough of any product to get the stated SPF. And I've just realised we have not considered your shaving regime - the products could be contributing to the problem, plus shaving removes the surface layer of skin, damaging the barrier.

Tue May 29, 2012 11:09 am

Thank you again. I think I may try the Eucerin, it is my cheeks and specifically cheekbones that are the worst, just tight, red, crepey and fine lined, will try it for there. Definitely feels like the skin barrier in that area is ruined for some reason Sad

Shaving has changed really, now use real shaving company stuff which supposedly has no bad chemicals in it!

Any face wash recommendations? I will use the La Roche Posay for now though.

Feels like I'm fighting a losing battle at the moment Sad

Thanks for everything Firefox.

free skin care · Tue May 29, 2012 12:17 pm

Myself wrote:

Thank you again. I think I may try the Eucerin, it is my cheeks and specifically cheekbones that are the worst, just tight, red, crepey and fine lined, will try it for there. Definitely feels like the skin barrier in that area is ruined for some reason Sad

Shaving has changed really, now use real shaving company stuff which supposedly has no bad chemicals in it!

Any face wash recommendations? I will use the La Roche Posay for now though.

Feels like I'm fighting a losing battle at the moment Sad

Thanks for everything Firefox.

Most shaving products contain irritants - sulphate surfactants, traditional soap - or are alkaline because that opens the cuticle, wetting and softening the hair. There may be irritants in the lubrication strip plus the blades themselves thin thestratus corneum. Sensitive skin runs in my family - one male has always had a beard, another maintains 'designer' stubble with an electric razor. Thankfully us ladies are not hirsute! Laughing

A diagnosis would really help: whilst there is overlap the treatments for atopic eczema, xerosis and contact dermatitis are not identical. It takes time for the skin barrier to recover after quitting sulphates, longer still if you continue to use products containing known irritants (chemical sunscreens, parabens etc) rather than replenishing the lipids.

Note these will be volunteers with no skin disorders, how tiny the percentage SLS used was and that it was a single exposure.
"METHODS: Sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS), dodecyl trimethyl ammonium bromide (DTAB), and potassium soap were the model irritants. Surfactant solutions (0.5%) were applied for 24 hours to the volar aspect of the forearm of 11 volunteers. Irritant reactions were assessed until complete healing was indicated by visual assessment and by various aspects of skin function, that is, transepidermal water loss (TEWL), erythema (skin color reflectance), and stratum that is, transepidermal water loss (TEWL), erythema (skin color reflectance), and stratum corneum hydration (electrical capacitance).
RESULTS: SLS and DTAB induced similar degrees of erythema, whereas SLS induced significantly higher TEWL increase. Although both erythema and TEWL were highest 1 hour after exposure to surfactants, skin dryness was a symptom with delayed onset, justifying the long observation period in this study. Minimum hydration values were measured as late as 7 days after surfactant exposure. Dryness was significantly more pronounced in areas exposed to SLS than in areas exposed to DTAB. Complete repair of the irritant reaction induced by either SLS or DTAB was achieved 17 days after surfactant exposure. Stratum corneum hydration was the last feature to return to baseline values. Potassium soap did not significantly influence any skin function.
CONCLUSION: We emphasize the importance of extended periods needed before a patient with irritant contact dermatitis can be reexposed to irritant substances. The evaluation of the irritation potential of diverse surfactants depended significantly on the feature (erythema vs hydration and TEWL) measured."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8188884

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 4:15 am

What about the "Simple" range in Boots - there's a moisturiser that is nice and light and doesn't have too many nasties in.

Wed May 30, 2012 7:22 am

Hi TheresaMay,

Thanks for your reply, is it the light hydrating one by simple?

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 7:50 am

Yes thats the one! Its nice and light but not heavy like some moisturisers are.

Myself wrote:

Hi TheresaMay,

Thanks for your reply, is it the light hydrating one by simple?

free skin care · Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:14 am

Cerave can be found on ebay and amazon.

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