The Placebo Effect
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free skin care · Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:35 pm

I was speaking to a former director at Merck a while ago, and he told me something very interesting:

He said that Merck's been finding in their clinical studies, that the placebo effect is becoming even stronger over the years!! That is, people are believing even more deeply that they will get well, even if given a "sugar pill" that does nothing at all, and hence on average, the placebo group is getting even more improvements these days. He said as a result, that it's been harder to prove that a certain drug works.

Anyhow, I thought that was really interesting...and it goes to show some of the powers of the mind...

free skin care · Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:57 pm

I think we see that here on the board as well!

free skin care · Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:13 pm

There is a very interesting article about a Harvard University scientist that is studying the placebo effect with anti-depressants. The other interesting thing about this article is that it speaks to clinical trials and how little data is actually required to get some drugs approved. And, I totally believe the placebo effect is there for skincare!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57380893/treating-depression-is-there-a-placebo-effect/

I apologize if this has been posted before.

free skin care · Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:13 pm

cm5597 wrote:

I was speaking to a former director at Merck a while ago, and he told me something very interesting:

He said that Merck's been finding in their clinical studies, that the placebo effect is becoming even stronger over the years!! That is, people are believing even more deeply that they will get well, even if given a "sugar pill" that does nothing at all, and hence on average, the placebo group is getting even more improvements these days. He said as a result, that it's been harder to prove that a certain drug works.

Anyhow, I thought that was really interesting...and it goes to show some of the powers of the mind...

This subject always puts me in mind of a saying "we" had as teens......Things perceived as real are real in their consequences.

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:42 am

There's no question in my mind that the Placebo Effect is responsible for allot of what we read on this forum - both good and bad. People see what they want to see.

I'm sure that the supplement industry is riding high on the Placebo Effect!

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:27 am

I don't think the placebo effect is such a bad thing.

When it comes to illness, attitude does make a difference. If the subjects actually do get better or feel better on sugar pills then good for them but I can see how it can make drug trials difficult.

As far as topical beauty products, I agree that I think we all read reviews that are "amazing". I never understood how people can think a product works so great within a short time. But I suppose that as long as they are happy with what they see.

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:00 am

When talking about the placebo effect, are we talking about perception? Or actual measurable changes?

For example cholesterol. Are people taking a sugar pill with no other changes, just thinking their numbers will drop, and then they do?

And what about things that get better that weren't the focus. So could a person be taking a sugar pill for hypertension, and then suddenly notice an improvement in skin texture?

The human mind is indeed fascinating!

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:10 am

Say someone is given a sugar pill to lower hypertension or cholesterol, we know stress can raise those numbers so if that person BELIEVES the pill is helping and becomes much less stressed could not that have a positive effect? Wink

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:36 am

Whatever it takes! Many believe that expensive products are more effective than diy. Its the reason why parent companies have different product lines offering the exact same products at different price points, so as to accomodate both both high & low end buyers and not miss out on sales.

I explain once, but don't take it any further with friends who insist on purchasing exorbitantly priced products. Given the placebo effect, they won't get the same effect, or satisfaction anyway, unless they're spending a lot. There's really no point in making them any of these perfectly lovely diy serums or pointing out the amazing colour payoff of a low end eyeshadow.

I truly believe in your quote Dark Moon - how brilliant for teens to realize that!

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:44 am

DarkMoon wrote:

Say someone is given a sugar pill to lower hypertension or cholesterol, we know stress can raise those numbers so if that person BELIEVES the pill is helping and becomes much less stressed could not that have a positive effect? Wink

I couldn't find the love button, but a big HELL YEAH! to this! It applies to very many things... the media scaring us with stories about how if we don't take such and such supplement we'll fall into a decrepit state... the supplements may not do a damn thing, but taking them alleviates the worry. Sad

Alleviating stress/worry is very important to general well being.

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:48 am

LoriA wrote:

Whatever it takes! Many believe that expensive products are more effective than diy. Its the reason why parent companies have different product lines offering the exact same products at different price points, so as to accomodate both both high & low end buyers and not miss out on sales.

I explain once, but don't take it any further with friends who insist on purchasing exorbitantly priced products. Given the placebo effect, they won't get the same effect, or satisfaction anyway, unless they're spending a lot. There's really no point in making them any of these perfectly lovely diy serums or pointing out the amazing colour payoff of a low end eyeshadow.

I truly believe in your quote Dark Moon - how brilliant for teens to realize that!

Thanks Lori,

I did (for all my playfulness) have friends with a high amount of intelligence!

I mentioned what I did about the high cholesterol and hypertension because I had a friend in a horrid marriage who was very high on both. She followed a strict diet for a long time to no avail, she left her now ex and went off the diet (did not go crazy with food) but went back to the doctor after 6 months and all was great. It was all the stress she was dealing with in her life prior!

Our minds are amazing in many ways we just are not even aware of at times!

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:14 pm

I've related this story a number of times but it's relevant here. I was at uni about to start my last semester. I was diagnosed with an ovarian cyst the size of a tennis ball. The gyno said it would have to come out. I was devastated - I knew that if I took time off uni I would never be able to catch up or graduate. I thought, I'll just soldier on and see what happens (even though I was in allot of pain). I went back to the doctor the following week when he was intending to book me in for the op. I felt allot better. He took an ultrasound of the cyst - and it had gone!! He then asked me, "Are you a strong minded person". I said I was determined not to take any time off uni - so he was convinced that I had "wished" the cyst away. (Although he didn't exactly put it that way).

Mind over matter is an interesting phenomenon. I think it's why a positive frame of mind is a much healthier attitude to have. I also think it's why some people manage to overcome cancer.

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:13 pm

Wow, Keliu! If I wasn't somewhat familiar with you from your posts on here, I'd consider that a highly unlikely story! That is amazing and I hope inspiring to people with similar diagonosis.

A week though, and the size of a tennis ball! Do you remember doing any kinds of visualization or other practices?

What a cool, or maybe very experienced doctor to ask that particular question of you.

As I said, I'm a big believer in all this, and have witnessed it applying to every area of my life in both good and bad ways.

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:39 pm

Yep, I'm a pretty down to earth person. But it was the doctor's response that interested me. Although, I'm sure that doctors see this kind of thing all the time. And, no, I didn't do any kind of visualisation programmes or anything "mind altering"- I was just determined not to miss uni.

But after saying that - I don't believe in all the Uri Geller stuff! But the Placebo Effect is well documented.

free skin care · Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:30 pm

You know, I don't know if this falls into the same category.

However!

I went through a lot to get PG. It took over 7 years to be handed my sweet, I think they're out to kill me little boys!

Ok, So, once it was confirmed I was pregnant. I went in for an ultra sound.

There were 2 sacs, and 1...ONE heartbeat. I was so excited to just finally be pregnant. I have the picture of the ultrasound. You can see that one sac is totally and completely empty! My doctor told me "congratz, it looks like you started out as twins, but only one has "taken"."

I have a picture of this ultrasound!

I went home absolutely beside myself to finally be pregnant.

I was doing visualization CD's.

So, anyhow, I was all excited about being PG... and for whatever reason I thought. You know, I've only been focusing on ONE baby. And I started to visualize 2 babies. As I had two sacs.

So, I changed my visualization. 2 babies. Implanting, sticking etc.

2 weeks later I go in for a follow up, and my doctor sees TWO heartbeats. HOLY CRAP! It was odd. DH sat in silence. I thought, Oh, he's gonna freak. You know what he said? "I've been worried about the twin these past two weeks!" I was like "OMG, I was just excited to be PG. But I focused on the possibility of 2"

I have the ultrasound (and well the kids to prove it!)

Here's the thing. My kids were discordinate. This means that one got HUGE compared to the other! I delivered at 34.5 weeks because baby A was significantly larger than baby B! Umm, maybe because baby B got a wee bit of a later start?

Baby A = 5 lb 5oz
Baby B = 3 lb 11 oz

We all went home 4 days after delivery. I spent my entire PG visualizing their perfect growth. Super healthy babies and now kids. They are so high energy, I'm wiped all the time! I'll post photos of ultrasounds in the next few days if I can find everything! They are my "babies"... now 7. Maybe I'll post OLD photos of the two. DH and I made some extremely attractive kids! If I do say so myself!

Ok, I know half of you think I'm utterly nutz anyway... But I knew who was who the whole time. I'll post a pg photo. You guys I was HUGE!!! GYNORMOUS!!!! DH and I came up with names, and I knew who was who. He argued with me a bit when they were born. But I didn't budge! And you know what??? Baby B, the little one, is the most persistent kid I have ever met! It's like, since conception he has fought his way! Still does!

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:09 pm

OMG, reading that almost made me tear up!
I'd imagine that when your body is already maneuvering all its energies toward creating a baby, you're at your most powerful and that you're in more control than ever of manipulating that creation, if you choose to. I just think most people just let their bodies do their thing and leave it to "fate". I've heard it said once that having a baby is the ultimate act of creativity. Have also heard that a woman cannot complete the process and physically express a child without some kind of faith (or at least allowance of the possibility) along the way that they'll be safe and provided for. Found that particularly interesting since I've never really felt those things.

And Keliu, I wasn't really asking whether you were doing any structured practices. Its just that sometimes people find themselves naturally imagining their bodies ridding them of illnesses, or how it would feel to be without discomfort, etc.

I remember as a child finally deciding once and for all that I simply could not live my life with tummy aches because they were just too awful and debilitating. It may have just been coincidence, but I stopped getting them immediately after that and don't think my overindulging habits changed in any way.

Whatever it takes to set your intention! Smile

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:25 pm

On another, perhaps more applicable note, the women who did my makeup (way before my eds journey) told me that I had nice skin, which shocked me. I couldn't figure out why they'd say such a thing, but these people who look at loads of different bare skin, up close, every day said it with such matter-of-fact certainty that I was really confused.

I started looking at my skin differently, questioning my perspective, acknowledging its positive aspects, taking better care of it, chilling out a bit and imagining the possibilities. What I'm saying is that a simple comment helped immeasurably!

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:28 pm

It's a well documented fact that soldiers, during warfare, are capable of enduring unbearable pain. A soldier might walk miles on a leg that has been blown to pieces without experiencing any pain - yet when he finally makes it to safety, is in absolute agony. Some of this is due to the extra amounts of adrenalin which floods the body, but the main thing is mind over matter. The Placebo Effect is basically that - mind over matter. If you think something is going to do you good, it probably will.

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:47 pm

As far as I know, the placebo effect is the name for the event when a fake medication has the same effect as the real medication.

In alternative medicine, this effect is well known as a way to stimulate what alternative medicine is all about, the self repairing ability of the body. The 'real' medical science has no explanation for this, other than stress relief and/or a psychosomatic factor in disease.

It's not about how people experience their pain/illness, its about real results, like shrinking tumors and inflammation going down. About measurable, objective results.

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:34 pm

Lotusesther wrote:

As far as I know, the placebo effect is the name for the event when a fake medication has the same effect as the real medication.

That is correct. But it occurs because the people don't know they're taking a fake medication - they believe that what they're taking will cure them, even though it's only a sugar pill. So what really is happening is mind over matter.

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:14 pm

Claudia, Thank you for sharing that with us-that is a beautiful story! Carol

free skin care · Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:42 pm

Some of the things shared in this thread are incredibly inspiring.

I recently went to the dermatologist and had an upsetting experience. I walked away feeling bad about myself.

I have cherry angiomas and I'm still in my 20's. I have more than just a few of them. Sad

Do you think it's possible that I could "wish them away?" (Kind of like keliu did with her cyst?)

free skin care · Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:22 pm

BellaKai wrote:

I have cherry angiomas and I'm still in my 20's. I have more than just a few of them. Sad

Do you think it's possible that I could "wish them away?" (Kind of like keliu did with her cyst?)

I'm going to have to answer "No" to that question - because it's not really a logical approach. I definitely believe in trying to remain positive - but you need to seek a proper medical diagnosis. Why was your experience with the derm so negative? Go see someone else. Cherry Angiomas are treatable. You can have them removed or treated with a laser. So please stay positive and just find a surgeon who is going to help you.

free skin care · Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:55 pm

I know it's not logical, but a lot of the miraculous stories described here don't exactly follow logic either. *shrugs*

I'd rather not discuss why it was a bad experience. I have BDD and it triggers me to have someone examine my skin like that.

free skin care · Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:06 pm

I agree with Keliu, but still think that anything is possible. You can believe that you will be rid of them one day, but you also have to make yourself available to all the ways that might happen. Its more likely that it will happen if you are proactive and put some energy into finding the opportunities that may present themselves. You've already done that and received suggestions with how to proceed, so you may be feeling further ahead and more positive with Keliu's support than you were before you posted.

I don't think that staying put, doing nothing, and "wishing" them away will be as effective, for one because that allows for the element of doubt. Would you bet on the person who starts the race, or the one that just thinks about it? There needs to be movement of some sort, especially if you're not used to just willing things into being.

And by the way, "wishing" is much different than "deciding"! Lets plan for another happy addition to this thread. Smile

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