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Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:14 am  |
| Skinactives newsletter said they are now carrying phloretin, the ingredeint in skinceuticals c,e serum. Just wondering if anyone was working on any recipes with this ingredient or has anyone added it to Dr. Kassy's c serum??? |
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Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:40 am |
| Any idea if it is water or oil soluble? I didn't see that it was mentioned in the newsletter. |
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Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:00 am |
I'm not sure. Here it is copied and pasted from my newsletter
New actives
Phloretin
http://www.skinactives.com/product/detail.aspx?prodID=188
We are now selling the active in SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF without the silly stuff in their formulation (denatured alcohol? why?). Pholretin is a nice antioxidant and inhibits elastase activity. Incidentally, phloretin has been shown to inhibit proliferation of breast cancer cells, a good reason to eat that "apple a day". I think phloretin may become a favorite of DIY that like to make their own vitamin C-serums. |
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Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:40 pm |
| On the skinactives forum, Hannah said she didn't think the phloretin would dissolve in a water-based serum. |
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Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:16 pm |
Skippie,
Did they give any recommendations as to what to dissolve it in? I see their ready made listed above says no alcohol in their formula? I would love to know as this looks like an active I would like to add to my potion cupboard!
TIA
DM |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:35 pm |
| Phloretin is soluble in Ethanol and Methanol, according to Calbiochem. |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:53 am |
When you say ethanol and methanol Lacy does that mean alcohol? As in vodka maybe?
This is an active I'm definately interested in. |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:58 am |
Not Lacy here, but just in case this helps...
Ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) and methanol (aka methyl alcohol) are both particular types of alcohol.
A better bet for ethanol than vodka is rubbing alcohol, as it doesn't have all the unwaned extras in vodka. Just make sure the rubbing alcohol says ethanol or ethyl alcohol on the label (you don't want the kind of rubbing alcohol that says isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol).
HTH  |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:05 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
Skippie,
Did they give any recommendations as to what to dissolve it in? I see their ready made listed above says no alcohol in their formula? I would love to know as this looks like an active I would like to add to my potion cupboard!
TIA
DM |
On their website, they recommend adding it to the Canvas Base which I don't quite get since these are the ingredients:
Water (aqua); Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil (emollient); Sorbitol (slip and water binding); Butylene Glycol (slip); Cetyl Alcohol (moisturizer and thickener); Glyceryl Stearate (moisturizer and thickener); PEG-100 Stearate (moisturizer and thickener); Stearyl Alcohol (moisturizer and thickener); Sesamum Indicum (Sesame) Seed Oil; Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil; Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil; Sodium Hyaluronate (water binding, nutrient); Polysorbate 20 (emulsifier); Citric Acid (to adjust pH); Dimethicone (skin conditioner, slip agent); Carbomer (thickener); Triethanolamine (to adjust pH); Diazolidinyl Urea, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben (antimicrobial preservatives). |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:42 am |
| cm5597 wrote: |
Not Lacy here, but just in case this helps...
Ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) and methanol (aka methyl alcohol) are both particular types of alcohol.
A better bet for ethanol than vodka is rubbing alcohol, as it doesn't have all the unwaned extras in vodka. Just make sure the rubbing alcohol says ethanol or ethyl alcohol on the label (you don't want the kind of rubbing alcohol that says isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol).
HTH |
Just saying that you get more ethanol per volume with rubbing alcohol than with vodka... |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:54 pm |
| Thanks CM. I've just got to figure out what rubbing alcohol is, I've never seen it. Is it something I can get at a pharmacy, or a hardware store? |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:03 pm |
maybe not in a hardware store...but I haven't get been to a drug store or convenience store that doesn't carry it. here are some pictures:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=rubbing%20alcohol&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
just double check that it says ethanol or ethyl alcohol on the label (and not isopropanol or isoproyl alcohol) |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:16 pm |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
Not Lacy here, but just in case this helps...
Ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) and methanol (aka methyl alcohol) are both particular types of alcohol.
A better bet for ethanol than vodka is rubbing alcohol, as it doesn't have all the unwaned extras in vodka. Just make sure the rubbing alcohol says ethanol or ethyl alcohol on the label (you don't want the kind of rubbing alcohol that says isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol).
HTH |
Just saying that you get more ethanol per volume with rubbing alcohol than with vodka... |
Does this mean anything that is vodka-soluble should also dissolve in Ethanol? Slightly off topic here, but I was making Kassy's C serum last week when I ran out of vodka for the Ferulic Acid and decided to substitute with 95% Ethyl Alcohol instead. It turned into sludge and I had to throw it out. Did I do something wrong? Thanks! |
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Asian. Near 30. Prone to broken caps, moles + freckles, large congested pores, hormonal cystic acne, flaky skin and fat puffy eyelids. Staples: Bioderma SS, Taz, Dr. Kassy's C, Skinoren, HQ, Cerave and growth factors-- but also trying EVERYTHING ELSE..... |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:18 pm |
| fat_swan wrote: |
| Does this mean anything that is vodka-soluble should also dissolve in Ethanol? |
So the answer is no, not everything that is vodka-soluble should also dissolve in ethanol. BUT....if you add water to ethanol, you can make a vodka-like substitute that should be able to dissolve almost all of the same things as vodka.
So vodka is about 35-50% ethanol, with almost all the rest being water, while ethanol (rubbing alcohol) is usually anywhere from 70-99% ethanol, with just a tiny bit of water.
Ethanol and water often can dissolve similar things, but there are some things that water can dissolve but ethanol cannot, and hence that vodka can dissolve much better than pure ethanol. A good example would be sugar dissolves well in vodka, but not well in ethanol.
So if something dissolves well in your vodka, but not so well in your rubbing alcohol, what you can do is if you want to use rubbing alcohol, you can dilute that in a one-to-one ratio with water, to get "substitute vodka"  That probably should probably allow you to substitute water + ethanol for vodka in most recipes.
But if that still doesn't work, then probably either:
(1) For some reason, your rubbing alcohol isn't really ethanol, but is really isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol
or
(2) There are some small amounts of other chemicals in the vodka which help dissolve whatever you are trying to dissolve, in which case, substituting a half-and-half water plus ethanol solution for vodka won't work.
HTH |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:29 pm |
P.S.
Hi fat_swan!
At http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6632444.html,
it indicates that ferulic acid is soluble in water, but the pH must be 7.0 or higher.
also it indicates that ferulic acid is soluble in some alcohols (the ''bigger'' types of alcohol molecules), but not ethanol...so that alone sounds like it would explain why ethanol alone didn't work for ferulic acid.
(however, a couple other sources said that ferulic acid is soluble in ethanol...so maybe it has limited solubility in ethanol??)
HTH |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:49 pm |
P.S. Skippie is right. I found a research article in the journal "Biochemistry" that said the solubility of phloretin in water is low:
"All substances investigated [phloretin and phloretin analogs] exhibit a low solubility in water. (e.g., phloretin solubility is <2.5 X. M..." |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:28 am |
Thanks very much Riley and CM. I'm in Australia and I don't think I've ever heard of rubbing alcohol, but I'm sure we'd have it. Probably called something else. I'll look around for it.
So is the best way to use phloretin in combination with vitamin C does anyone know? |
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:16 am |
| If anyone comes up with a recipe (Kassy?), I hope you'll share it. I'd be very thankful as I'm not very chemically minded. |
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:54 am |
Thank you cm5597 for taking the time to research my question! I had no idea vodka is water + ethanol, I only thought I'd need less liquid to dissolve the FA if I used plain ethanol  . Thanks so much! |
_________________
Asian. Near 30. Prone to broken caps, moles + freckles, large congested pores, hormonal cystic acne, flaky skin and fat puffy eyelids. Staples: Bioderma SS, Taz, Dr. Kassy's C, Skinoren, HQ, Cerave and growth factors-- but also trying EVERYTHING ELSE..... |
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:39 am |
| fat_swan wrote: |
| I had no idea vodka is water + ethanol |
yep, that's what it *mostly* is! |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:54 am |
Maybe this will help for a recipe; it's the description and ingredients for SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF:
SkinCeuticals has developed a new antioxidant treatment containing the molecule Phloretin. Derived from the bark of fruit trees, Phloretin is the newest in antioxidant technology. Phloretin CF is a broad-spectrum antioxidant containing 10% L-Ascorbic Acid and .5% Ferulic Acid along with 2% Phloretin.
Phlorentin CF delivers powerful photoprotection from free radicals and environmental elements. It helps reduce fine lines and wrinkles, diminishes age spots and other forms of hyperpigmentation. It accelerates cell renewal along with improving laxity in the skin Restores radiance and produces a more uniform skin tone. This lightweight solution is perfect for all skin types, including oily.
INGREDIENTS: WATER, EAU, DIPROPYLENE GLYCOL, ALCOHOL DENAT., ASCORBIC ACID, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, TRIETHYL CITRATE, PHLORETIN, FERULIC ACID 30021/2
Size: 1 fl oz
(From SkinCareLab) |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:24 pm |
| Just wondering if anyone has purchased phloretin from skinactives. I think I'm going to give it a try. |
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Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:01 am |
Bumping this thread to see if anyone knows how I could add this (Phloretin) to a serum. I use a DIY Tetra C serum and would love to add this to it. Would that be possible?
any advice from the DIY'er's out there? |
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I'm 49, fair skin, green eyes, blonde hair, dry slightly sensitive skin, I have very few wrinkles, slight pigmentation, main worry is sagging..yuck!! Currently using CP |
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Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:01 am |
| Bermie2 wrote: |
Bumping this thread to see if anyone knows how I could add this (Phloretin) to a serum. I use a DIY Tetra C serum and would love to add this to it. Would that be possible?
any advice from the DIY'er's out there? |
I think it also dissolves in butelyne glycol in addition to alcohol... |
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